I SoO need some good advice?

[FitToBeTied]

Here goes nothing.

Here is my problem in a nutshell.

 

1. My fiance is planning to file ch. 7 bankruptcy before we get married to wipe her 27k cc debt. She plans also to use her remaining credit to fund for our wedding and honeymoon since she still has about 20k that she hasn't used. Therefore we would get a "free" wedding and honeymoon in a since but she would bare the downside of no credit for 7-10 yr's while we live off just my credit for big expensed.

 

2. My fiance believes in people who supposedly can read her past and future and has always tried to make me a believer.

 

3. We found out we cannot afford a honeymoon last night while she worked out some math with me. From that point on she cried and got emotional. She said she didn't know if she wanted to go through with getting married anymore and she didn't see the point anymore. "So, we will get married and then I'll move into this apartment with you and that will be our honeymoon." she said. This leaves me questioning why she said yes to me when I proposed to her. Keep in mind this was all said 3 rings, a reception center, photographer, flowers, gown and all the accessories already purchased and booked.

 

Now some history...

 

I am 25 and my fiance is 26. I love her very much. She is my life partner, my companion, and my best friend for 6 yr's. She lives at home with her parents, sister, brother and dog. I just moved out into an apartment by myself untill we get married that is. And that is the traditional way it should be too I know. She and I are great together when we are together. We have so many good experiences that we have shared together in our lives and look forward to sharing the rest of our lives together or at least I thought anyways. I popped the question on her last December before Christmas. She had taken alot sooner than I the idea of us being married in the early stages of our relationship. The pressures that a guy can get from a girl and both families is tremendous with this much time spent in a close relationship and not married. Especially that from a Cuban American family who's daughter might be waisting her time and life with a guy who isn't ever going to commit. Especially when friends, relatives and the much gifted people that can read the future are telling her that her and I will not ever get married or be able to make it last. That she will always make more than me and be the provider.

 

I have this overwhelming feeling that I am alone and almost a slave to this engagment process. To say the least I am having second thoughts too now but only from her latest actions and words. Only thing is, we are in our 6th month of being engaged with more than half of the wedding on charge cards and paid for. She could technically sue me and I know her well enough by now to say she would sue me for half the expenses incurred. This really pisses me off at the same time makes me very down and unhappy at the moment. Why? Because this is the woman that I adore, love and wanted to spend the rest of my life with. I have already spent 6 yrs with her so it made perfect since what the next step is. I asked her to have her hand in marriage and this is the thanks I get. A guilt trip. I am really desperate for some good sound advice. I really wanted this to work out. Am I being a fool?

[clia]

I think your girlfriend sounds more concerned with the "act" of getting married--the wedding, honeymoon, etc.--than with the marriage itself. I mean, she wants to cancel the wedding because you can't afford a honeymoon? That's insane.

 

She is not thinking about the longterm and about the marriage. She is thinking about one day. It is a very bad idea to file ch. 7, unless it is an absolute necessity. It is a further bad idea to purposely charge up an entire wedding and then file ch. 7.

 

Have you really thought about the repercussions of this? Hope you don't want to buy a house or car in the next seven years. Hope you don't want to get a new credit card. You are a better person than I am...

[Tony T]

YOU STATE: "She could technically sue me and I know her well enough by now to say she would sue me for half the expenses incurred."

 

That is incorrect. She put these expenses on her credit card and you signed no promissory note to her. Besides, if she sues you, you can have her put in Federal prison for bankruptcy fraud. It is against the bankruptcy code to charge credit cards and make other debt with the full knowledge that you will attempt to have those debts discharged in a bankruptcy proceeding.

 

You will go to Federal prison yourself as an accomplice if you knowingly participate in this planned venture to defraud the credit card companies and the bankruptcy court. I love the way you said you would get a "free" wedding, etc. The two of you would also get separate cells, probably different prisons.

 

Now, with all that out of the way, why are you wanting to marry this lady??????????? Yeah, I know you love her and all that crap but that won't last long with her lack of money management skills. She will have your financial life in chaos all the days of your life. Yeah, right, she will file bankruptcy and all will be well. If she doesn't go to jail, you will be stuck with putting all her excesses on your credit lines...finally driving you to bankruptcy. And guess what will happen then???

 

OK, I will tell you. She has already told you what kind of person she is by calling off the wedding because she can't steal enough money from the credit card companies for a honeymoon. OK, great!!! Now, what do you think she would do if the two of you actually got married, once she had milked all your savings and credit lines for her benefit. That's right. She would hold out just enough money for a divorce so she could go suck somebody else out of their savings and credit lines.

 

Did you know that money problems are the NUMBER ONE cause of divorce in America?

 

I'm not saying she's an awful person. But she has obviously come from a background where the psychological dynamics created a credit monster, a materialistic winch who must constantly have STUFF coming in for her to be happy. People like this are never happy because minutes after a purchase and the high they get from that, they must go buy something else in order to get high enough.

 

It's obvious from her behavior that she's not nearly as interested in you as she is interested in weddings, honeymoons, and materialistic stuff. And do you want a felon, convicted or not, for a wife??? If she truly loved you and wanted to spend the rest of her life with you, she would care less about a honeymoon. She would take the position that it could be taken once the money was available...however, she is into immediate gratification and that's what has gotten her into a financial tailspin.

 

I urge you to think about this a whole lot. Forget all the love crap. That will go down the drain quickly when you become mired in financial chaos with this lady. You have to ask yourself if you want a marriage partner who can't handle money and who has an insatiable thirst for stuff that could go on a lifetime. This woman will make your life a living hell. It hasn't been bad because you haven't been married. But, just imagine, after you're married (if you don't go to prison) she will be totally dependent on you for her excesses and there will be arguments and torture all your days as you become less and less smitten and more and more adamant about fiscal responsiblity on her part.

 

I think calling off the wedding was the best thing that could have ever happened in your life. Now, the next best thing that could ever happen in your life would be for you to find a woman who cares about you more than a honeymoon and someone who will manage the family money in a responsible way once you marry her.

 

Good luck!!!

[quankanne]

clia's right, your GF is just looking at one very small aspect of being married to you, and not the whole shebang. If she's already so badly in debt, why on earth would she want to blow the last of her available credit on a fancy wedding and honeymoon when there are practical needs to consider (a home, a car, financing a family, etc). Sounds like she only wants to ensure that her material wants are met, and nothing more.

 

as for the part about everyone else telling her that basically, you're no good for her, and that you'll never be good enough for her ... well, that can go both ways. Why are all these "friends, relatives and much-gifted people who can read the future" helping her make this kind decision? Where is the love and trust in your relationship?

 

I haven't lived your relationship with this chick, but from what you've written, I see a bunch of red flags. Are you sure you want to spend the rest of your life with someone who is not mature enough to look at the big picture? Or who relies on others "who can read her past and future" to know how to live her life?

 

now's the time to sit down and actually talk about your goals for your future. Not the dream wedding/honeymoon, but the realities of building a life together. Then make your move from there. If it means breaking the engagement to get out of a dead-end situation, I highly recommend it. Believe me, as much money as you've sunk into wedding preparations, breaking the engagement will be much, much cheaper than dissolving a marriage, and you still have your dignity.

[FitToBeTied]

I will comment further when I get back from work today. There is more information I feel that is still needed. But, I really do apreciate everyone's advice. Thank you.

[FitToBeTied]

I think all of you are right about my girlfriends concerns for the "act" itself of marriage more than what it stands for. Your right, she isn't thinking of the long-term point of it at all is seems. Just her day the way that she has imagined probably since a little girl. This fantasy wedding or something. And now she speaks of throwing in the towel from finding out that we don't have any money saved or credit available to pay for the honeymoon. It's just plainly a slap in my face. I feel like I really have misjudged her character. From the mismanagement of her money to how she has listened to our bankruptcy attorney's ill and fraudulent advice to file ch.7 and start clean. Can you believe she is a branch manager of a bank?

 

I have always been against the idea of her filing for bankruptcy. It scares the shi* out of me that she is needing to do this before or even after we get married for that matter. My god, her parents are filing for ch.7 this year as well. That is a HUGE flag. My own parents filed for bankruptcy when I was young. Growing up watching and listening to the arguments and seeing the stresses of the whole situation has made me plea and promise to myself never to fall into that situation when I got married. And now look at me. I'm in a apartment on my own earlier than I expected because my parents were about to lose they're house. I cannot seem to save a dime now for the wedding or myself. I think this has added a lot of stress to my girlfriend since this makes her the sole person paying for it all. All of these debts on her that she partly has been responsible for as well as her parents are responsible for. That’s right, her parents put a great deal of it on her when her father became disabled with a bad back leaving the medical expenses no where to go but onto her credit cards for her to bare the payments. Her parents have not and probably never will pay her for that. When I found out that is where a lot of her debt came from, it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

I am and have been against the attorney planting the idea into her head to charge up our wedding with what credit she had left. He even is telling her to hurry and do it before Bush changes the current ch.7 before it is done away with because it's just too easy for people to do. He called it "almost a loop-hole". I remember him saying, "As long as you wait 3 to 4 months without any charge activity before filing". He said that by her filing for bankruptcy prior to us getting married would ensure that it would not affect me at all and destroy my great credit that I have worked so hard at getting. He said we would be able to get a house still and a car or whatever but just on my credit alone instead of our combined credit or her bankruptcy would show up and most definitely we would be declined.

 

Tony said, "I love the way you said you would get a "free" wedding, etc."

 

I said this because I felt that this is what my girlfriend was expecting and what our attorney was advising her-us to do. I definitely did not and do not feel the same way about it and I made a strong point to tell her so too when the her idea to file came up. So then I made her finally go see a bankruptcy attorney to find out her alternatives to paying for such a high amount of debt at such a young age instead of filing for bankruptcy. I was hoping that the attorney would tell her the terrible affects of her filing on both of us and convince her otherwise.

 

Our attorney ended up feeding fuel to the fire giving her all of these ideas and exits which are definitely not legal I understand even more clearly now… thank you Tony.

 

I am the one after all who did not want to get married until I felt financially stable enough to support a partner let alone myself for these very reasons. But 6 years is a long time and I didn’t want to lose someone so special to me and lose the relationship that we had built together. I was starting to get hints and signs from her and both moms earlier on in the relationship that she would brake up with me some day if we didn't get married. And in a way I understood. And marriage was the next logical step. We wanted to re-affirm our relationship to ourselves and to god. We wanted to live our lives together...forever. So then I proposed to her to share her life with me.

 

Now I can go on about how she is indeed a good and wonderful person and girlfriend and how much we love each other and how good we are for one another, ect. She hasn't ever shown me signs otherwise to cheat the system or use criminal behavior or that she is a bad person. This is why I am like so confused right now with all of her decision making lately and the wedding planning. I think she wants to get married so badly and also wants to proof everyone wrong that ever doubted us that we can live happily together and married that she might do whatever it takes. I think I have ignored the signs up until now. Hopefully I caught it soon enough and have received this advice in time to set things straight.

 

Tony said, "once she had milked all your savings and credit lines for her benefit. That's right. She would hold out just enough money for a divorce so she could go suck somebody else out of their savings and credit lines."

 

I have thought about that idea before and the thought of it obviously scares me to no end. She seems to be very capable of trying that one. She is very materialistic. I'm a Wal-Mart shopper and she's a William Sonoma shopper. She simply has to have the best and the more expensive it is, the better quality she thinks it is.

 

And Quankanne, I agree with you when you mention, "Where is the love and trust in your relationship?" That is a question I have now for her to explain to me since acting this way the other night by wanting to forget about our future together over not having a honeymoon.

[clia]

You can get married very cheapy by a justice of the peace. You don't need to spend ten grand plus on a wedding. I mean, hell, if you have to do that and you want a big wedding, renew your vows in five years when you have the cash and have a blowout with all your friends and family.

 

Would she do this? You two obviously don't have the cash for a big wedding, and obviously her parent should realize this. If she isn't willing to do this, she wants the party and not the marriage.

[reed]

First of all I think some of you guys mad some real strong points.

 

I just proposed i to my fin-ace two days ago , and during the whole process I

really got a thural understanding on how woman look at a

 

proposal/ wedding. They want the Fairy tell atmosphere from beginning to end then they think about the real stuff like living arrangements - communication issue ect..

 

Guys that's something we gotta understand about women. I really think that selfish for the bride to not want to get married because of money because the divorce rate is so high because society promotes BS celebrity wedding all the time failing to realize that is such a mockery of true love!

 

People that are married for decades never let money dictate their happiness , and i can only hope my wife understands that cause guys lets be honest women choke when i comes to being in a fiance bind. don't get me wrong people in Hollywood have successful marriages all the time but we need to stop promoting these 8 million dollar wedding all the time , and showing the 20 million dollar ring as if that guarantees success. I think communication and love can bring out of dept and never into it because you'll do anything to keep your love happy.