Tough and Sad situation

[onward]

First post... I've picked this handle because moving onwards is where I need to be, I'm certainly not there yet... This is a long post, but I promise, there is a *very* interesting twist at the end that I need some advice on.

 

I've been reading and following many of the threads here for about 2 months now. It has been an incredible support mechanism as my marriage has been hurtling towards a divorce. Seeing so many people in the same situation as me (wife has one foot out the door) has helped through solidarity. I've also greatly appreciated the advice and thoughts offered (Gunny and ILMW in particular). I believe it helped me get through the debilitating shock phase (mid-october through December), I'm back to 75% at work, and while I can't avoid the emotional roller-coaster, I'm at least not surprised by much (which really came in handy today)

 

Here's an overview of the situation, I could write volumes, but will try to keep it short.

 

Demographics:

- Married 6.5 yrs, dating 1.5 prior, dance scene acquaintances (5 yrs prior)

- Me almost 40 (happy birthday...), Wife (42)

- Daughter, almost 5, gifted - super smart and very advanced, but also has some socialization challenges. She’s in an awesome private school geared for this type of kid.

 

Relationship: has been challenging over past 2 yrs. All of the following apply and were very real contributing factors:

- Busy modern lifestyle (work, raising child, pressure to make ends-meet, etc.)

- Naïve in relationships (me). Late bloomer, no LTRs, etc. Did not validate wife enough, court her after engagement, nor sought to understand why “I Be” a certain way and what W is really asking/saying.

- W was also contributor, I think most profoundly is not being clear (with herself and me) with what she needed. She has also had many issues with her family over past 2.5 yrs (at one point she was ostracized entirely).

- In early October she started to say that she does not love me, and has never loved me. Said she realized this in August. Took couples therapist and me by total surprise.

- Her rationale has been all over the map (I now know this is typical) – “didn’t have spark for you in the beginning,” “we never had much of a sex life,” also a list of 8 grievances some being big like we don’t have intimate long conversations and I don’t feel secure with you, some small like you eat too fast.

- Since this began I’ve devoured Getting the Love you Need (which wife recommended 4 yrs back), and similar texts. My eyes are open, my actions sincere, but alas it is all too late. At this point W takes all of this as invalidation and non-acceptance of her wanting to leave.

- We were in therapy for 2 yrs, but it was not effective. I know now that there are better therapy methods to what we had. And we could have participated better. Wife initially suggested we go for “good relationship hiegene”, we spent much time talking about her issues with her family, the events of the last fight we had, and with me shut-down and disengaged. My individual therapist [new development] would have called BS on me being checked out, also would have had us address real intimacy issues rather than argue about who said what. Also, for me, a mix of talk and action seems like better approach then just talk. Our couples therapist specifically avoided recommending an actions. To bad Dr. Phil didn't practice in my neighborhood...

- Our marriage has largely been timed on her clock – we had to get married because she felt the child rearing years are almost over. We had to move to burbs and buy house and to have a kid within 1 yr… Similarly, now she feels an urgent need to move on because she feels this can’t work, feels her feelings won’t change, and feels time is running out [pre-menopause I’ve been guessing], although now I feel she just wants to move with Romatic Love and a new life.

 

 

Here is an interesting twist.

- I made it big in the 1st “.com” age, retired for 2 yrs and got married, then 9/11 hit plus market crashed, I didn't diversify, so lost 75%. Can live comfy life, but had to go back to work again... Still have decent assets all things considered.

- Wife was a professional, but has not worked since we got married. I tried to get her "back out there" for past 3 yrs, but to no avail. I think it was her fear of going back to workforce, and the fact that I wasn’t clear that I could not *stand* the fact that I had to drain my savings to supplement our lifestyle.

 

Last little bit of background:

- My wife is very attractive, had done a lot of emotional development work

- Me, I’ve always had issues feeling attractive, have gone through phases where that was not an issue, and at those times have dated and generally been on top of my life game.

- The .com thing was not luck, I’m very intelligent, hard working (often too hard…), and continue to be successful from career perspective.

 

Over the past 3 months I’ve gone through the typical phases of “lets work on this”, “just try for 6 months, if we can’t do better I’m fully supportive of you leaving”, also being the best partner possible (mainly in day-to-day tactics, as emotional routes have been essentially shutoff, etc.. I asked about OM a couple of times, she said no, but wants to leave before it gets so bad in marriage that infidelity would start. On New Year’s day I “accepted” the situation – not from emotional closure perspective – from the point of view that we’re stuck and she won’t come around any time soon. I told her I realized this is where we’re heading, and lets see if separation or some other arrangement are in order, before we hurtle down the path of an ugly divorce. Two days later W moved to guest bedroom. In the 4 weeks since then I’m noticing a new wardrobe (very hot stuff), new activities on very near term horizon (Tango classes), etc. Frequency that she ditches wedding ring when she goes out without me is increasing, etc.

 

Some of our biggest conflicts since this all began have been about house and living arrangements – her perspective was “Nesting” is best for D (that’s where we alternate weeks at our house), and each have apt elsewhere. I say F that, you leave me I need to move on, don’t want to see you much cause I’m still in love. Plus we can’t afford this house + 2 apts, and the arrangement is purely temporary if either of us moves on we’d want our D coming into our new life, not taking ourselves out of our life to be with D in “her” house. Wife then cries that she can’t afford nice enough place to raise D, and I disengage. All along W maintained with should do collaborative Divorce (we’re in CA), as it is best for the child. I agree.

 

Throughout all of this I’ve gone through denial, incredible sorrow for our family, anger, and depression (rejection, shattering of my life dream, wanting my wife back, etc.), and even empathy for my wife’s situation. I dare say I probably love her now more then ever, I’ve never been out of love with her, just didn’t know how to show it. For 6 yrs she’s been the one I fantasize about…

 

Wife is an *amazing* mother, and we’ve managed to keep D isolated from 95% of this – really! When W and I put our heads together we do amazing things, and this has been the case all along.

 

Ok, here is my “what to do” dilemma – and it brings the whole emotional and financial elements into a collision course:

 

Financially: There are some significant assets which were mine before, but can be contested. In the 1st week of March I can remove all doubt, but not before. I’ve talked with lawyer, this is the case. If the D process begins before March then we go into lock-down and I’m exposed. The stakes could be big, I’d like to buy her out and still have small nest egg, and I may not be able to do it if I get taken to cleaners. So this is [if I’m being honest, part of] the reason I have not kicked her out much previously (jmargel and others), at a time when tough love maybe would have brought her back. Yet another instance of my affinity to $ getting in the way of me having a healthy marriage.

 

Wife has been trying to find a job so we can proceed and move on – this was the basis of much of my prior desire to work on the Relationship, because I thought we were stuck together anyway. Lately she brought up the need to not be so pressured about the job, and that we can manage through a transition period (I know she is now thinking I pay Alimony while we figure things out, how I know this is below).

 

We are in same house, and I know that she wants to bring up the “right to date” this week. The need to find a sexually attractive partner has been a subtle theme (but yes, I saw her notebook last week – not happy about my snooping actions, but as you’ll soon see – very justified). My planned position on this discussion was I’m ok if you want to date, but not while you’re in my house – it would just be too painful for me, I can’t stop you, but out of decency and the fact that we’re still married please restrain yourself.

 

Well…

 

Today – I found an overnight Sex kit in her room – It had a 6 pack of Trojans (mine btw, I opened the flap to the box when I got them back in August. They disappeared two months back), a brand new massage oil bottle, a vibrator, an envelope with $92 (babysitter?), two protein shakes (this tells me she plans on two breakfasts)). There was also an unsigned Valentines card below the kit it was not an innocent card “Roses are Red and Sometimes They’re Thorny, When I’m Without You I Get Really… ( then inside) “Horny. I know what you were thinking, shame on you.” Nice card, eh, wouldn’t mind being on the receiving end… I guess though I am on the receiving end, and this makes the process easier from here out.

 

I’m guessing she is planning a Valentine’s tryst as the switch from EA to PA, or… she will do it week of 2/19 when I take daughter on 5 day ski vacation with friends.

 

So what do I do? I’ve considered kicking her out a couple of times before, but because of the financial thing I didn’t want to enter the formal process till March. I was so hurt and angry when I saw that sex-kit. My first thought was to put Tabasco sauce in that oil bottle and wait for the call from the ER – made me laugh at least, but that would expose my knowledge and may accelerate the process. At minimum, I plan to video the evidence and then come back later to see how many condoms are missing... What I really want to do is throw her out and go MC (there is D to worry about), but she’s meeting with lawyer in two days, so this all but guarantees that we enter the formal process.

 

Tonight she’ll want to talk about her budget during this interim pre-separation period. Before finding the sex kit I was going to mention that for me this topic is tied to us not dating and our living arrangements, and specifically us not dating if we are still living together.

 

 

Also, having her go through with it and me having some evidence may come in handy later -- but to what end? to embitter the two of us? to embarrass her? it will just make it harder for my daughter later on... I feel that I can't even share this sex-kit thing with my friends because they will feel angry about D's Mom, and we have many common friends. I wish I could just blab about this in addition to W's lack of trying to work on relationship and being the one to leave -- but life is not so liberal with revenge (short term high for me, long term big loss to D)

 

So what now?

 

Of course there is also the %.0002 scenario that that card was for me, and that the kit is just for future purposes (I feel like an idiot writing this last sentence – am leaving it in so you get a sense of my state… , may as well point out that I'm alone at home while W and D are with her friends watching the superbowl - I don't care for football much, but again, note who needs to grow them balls back and just move on with life... )

 

Thoughts? Advice?

 

(btw – even if I hear nothing from you, it helped me to write this note. I’m less steamed emotionally, and more hardened.) I write this and am sad because past week I've worked on understanding me better, and yes hoping we'd get together at some point in the future. Now, all this "hardening" business just seems to fly in the the face of emotionally opening up so you can understand yourself better -something that is hard for me to do anyways.

Edited February 4, 2008 by onward

[StillSame]

 

Today – I found an overnight Sex kit in her room – It had a 6 pack of Trojans (mine btw, I opened the flap to the box when I got them back in August. They disappeared two months back), a brand new massage oil bottle, a vibrator, an envelope with $92 (babysitter?), two protein shakes (this tells me she plans on two breakfasts)). There was also an unsigned Valentines card below the kit it was not an innocent card “Roses are Red and Sometimes They’re Thorny, When I’m Without You I Get Really… ( then inside) “Horny. I know what you were thinking, shame on you.” Nice card, eh, wouldn’t mind being on the receiving end… I guess though I am on the receiving end, and this makes the process easier from here out.

 

I’m guessing she is planning a Valentine’s tryst as the switch from EA to PA, or… she will do it week of 2/19 when I take daughter on 5 day ski vacation with friends.

 

Maybe it's already a PA. What make you think it's only a EA and hasn't gone further? Does she really need to disappear for a whole day or a whole night for her to get into a PA?

 

Was she a great wife? Can you really respect her, love her, and take her back after all she has done?

 

Whatever you do, just don't be nasty to her. She will always be your daughter's mom.

 

From now on, she is not your loving wife. Play smart and protect yourself (and your assets).

Edited February 4, 2008 by StillSame

[Nomad1]

Onward - I empathise with you and feel your pain because I have been (and I am still there). Your wife's behaviour bears all the hallmarks of mid-life crisis.

 

1) I understand the need to know what is going on, hence you looking for evidence of what she is up to. Now you know don't look any further. It will only prolong the pain and will most certainly exacerbate the situation.

 

2) Your wife has moved on emotionally. As you suspected, she may be having an emotional affair which she plans to take to the next level. The emotional affair is what probably started all this. At this stage she may be fantasising about the thrill of being with OM. She will come down in few month time when reality sets in. Let her get on with it. Show indifference even though you are hurting. Let her realise that the grass is not necessarily greener out there. Whomever she is planning to get intimate with might only be interested in a bit of sex on the side. It will eventually help you move on.

 

3) Understand and accept that there is NOTHING you can do to make her change her ways.

 

4) Look after yourself. YES I KNOW IT IS EASIER SAID THAN DONE! But force yourself. Devise daily to do lists and stick to them. You will eventually start looking forward to your next task.

 

5) What has helped me, thanks to advice/suggestions I got here, is to reconceptualise the relationship with my STBXW as: wife, mother of my children and friend. The wife bit is gone, the mother bit is evidently there and the friend bit can be rekindled for the sake of the children. This has helped us communicate better and we have had no arguments in recent weeks (we still live in the same house). Can only be good for the children.

 

6) FOCUS ON YOUR DAUGHTER! She is the most important person in your life and needs you now more than ever. Do everything you can to minimise the impact of the divorce.

 

7) Channel your energy into becoming more successful. It will help you get your confidence back.

 

8) You only feel the hurt / pain when you think of your wife. When you do, think of all the hurtful things she said to you. We tend to only conjure up all the nice memories about those we think we are in love with. Would you want to stay married to someone who has treated you the way she did?

 

9) Rejection by those we love (or think we love) makes you want the person who rejected you even more. They sense this and their determination not to be with you hardens even more. It is a cycle. Go 180%. she will sense it and will start wondering who is the new object of your affection.

 

10) THINGS CAN ONLY GET BETTER! You will find someone who will reciprocate your love and passion.

 

You can't change your wife, but you can change YOU. Start doing that.

 

Take care.

 

Nomad1

[Mr. Lucky]

Some of our biggest conflicts since this all began have been about house and living arrangements – her perspective was “Nesting” is best for D (that’s where we alternate weeks at our house), and each have apt elsewhere. I say F that, you leave me I need to move on, don’t want to see you much cause I’m still in love. Plus we can’t afford this house + 2 apts, and the arrangement is purely temporary if either of us moves on we’d want our D coming into our new life, not taking ourselves out of our life to be with D in “her” house. Wife then cries that she can’t afford nice enough place to raise D, and I disengage. All along W maintained with should do collaborative Divorce (we’re in CA), as it is best for the child. I agree.

Ever heard the old joke "Do you know why divorce is so expensive?"

 

"Because it's worth it..."

 

As I see it, you have two choices:

 

1). Gut it out until March but turn a blind eye to what your STBXW does. She could be the star in the road show production of "Debbie Does Dallas" - you stay in your room and turn up the TV. Quit playing detective, she's going to sleep with someone else at some point anyway. At this point, why should you care?

 

or

 

2). Get out with now with your sanity intact. Screw the money, agree to a settlement with your D's best interest at heart and move on.

 

Choose one, can't have it both ways. This I know from experience ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[StillSame]

Choose one, can't have it both ways.

 

Mr. Lucky

 

True. That's why I ask him whether he was a great wife before her recent mid-life crisis and whehter he can forgive her and take her back after all she has done or will do. If his answers are all "yes," he should choose option one, otherwise, choose option 2.

[onward]

Thanks for the quick responses, all are GREAT advice. Keep them coming please, I don't want to rush to hasty plan. Mr Lucky and StillSame, clearly I have real thinking to do...

 

I sent the text of my post to my therapist (saved 20 minutes of catching him up). He just responded that if money is important then I should seriously consider not separating before March.

 

I can schedule a business trip for last week of Feb. So I'm here through Valentines day, then off with D for a week of Ski, then biz trip and then back here on first week of March. In the meantime I try to stall any collab divorce movements (we are seeing child therapist and some coaches this week), and I ask that we start in mid-March because of work issues, V-day, etc. This would be the plan if I choose to ignore her and "bless" the PA, it is also the plan [i guess?] to maximize future reconciliation chances per StillSame? I say "bless" PA because I would have to be silent about my prior desire to not see anyone until we have separation or she is out of the house. With her being this much into the new Romance, that type of "sane" request from me could easily cause her to accelerate D process, as she would want to have the green light to proceed... or she may simply feel threatened/invalidated by me not accepting her planned [yet damaging] course of action, which in past has accelerated her drive to leave. Any thoughts on this? Should I ask her not to see folks while we're figuring things out and co-living? Is there a delicate way of stating this that doesn't come across as threatening to her? Again, if not for the $ issues this would be a perfectly fine request...

 

I don't think it is a PA because her notebook talked about asking me for ability to date and bringing this up with the collab-divorce coach.

 

Also, quick clarification, there isn't an outcome where she gets the boot and is pennyless and can't take care of D - I wouldn't do that anyways, and I believe we both want joint custody 50/50 timewise. It's just her perception or her posturing (she is not very attuned to the financials). The reality is that in the worst case she'll get $200K from house appreciation, her $140K from her 401k, and very nice child support payments. She won't be able to buy a house here [and she really wants a house], but she can rent a very nice apt and have a nice cushion for the future -- she's also walking around with $50K on her finger... If she gets serious again later, w/me or someone else, she can get back into home ownership. But why give her more from what was mine before M? Especially given the fact that my significant savings have funded the the past 6 yrs (funded massive dream wedding too). My cushion will now not be nearly as large, since I have to buy her out and also buy-down the mortgage so cashflow will become manageable... I've also been considering giving her a bit more, just from goodness of my heart, but I have to say that I swing wildly about that element -- I figure I have to be able to look me in the mirror going forward, as she may not be satisfied no matter what the asset distribution ends up being (maybe she doesn't care, there's just no way to know until we get into that conversation).

 

Lucky, thanks for the Joke and beyond being funny, it may end up being a very healthy perspective for me to adopt.

Edited February 4, 2008 by onward

[Gunny376]

WTF is your major malfuction? She's "scroggin" another guy already! And you so call "love her" enough to foot the bill? Enough already!

 

She's selfish!

 

Materialistic!

 

A "Material-Girl"

 

She married you because you were a "meal-ticket" and a "Early Retirement Plan"

 

Things went South ~ financially ~ and she couldn't be rid of you fast enough!

[onward]

Thanks, needed that!

 

So far it is looking like I should bide my time, be silent till March, and move on in best financial shape. Let her have her fun for a month don't ask don't tell - man up and move on.

 

If it wasn't for very real need to protect my $'s, I would have spiked the massage oil with Tabasco, and had her suitcases on the curb...

[Mr. Lucky]

So far it is looking like I should bide my time, be silent till March, and move on in best financial shape. Let her have her fun for a month don't ask don't tell - man up and move on.

I know onward, that it's easier said than done. You're in a tough situation. My ex also segued quickly into another relationship as we were splitting. It took a while, but I later figured that she had done me a favor, for the reality of her new BF quickly got me over the "what if" phase. The mental picture of her screwing him was quite effective in ending any false hopes I might have been carrying. Maybe what you're going through will have the same effect on you...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Gunny376]

God pity the poor bastard that ends up with her!

[Nomad1]

Hi Onward - This is no time to be generous. Be fair, but don't give too much. Never mind her screwing anther guy. The chances are she may have already done so whilst being married to you. You would think if she is going through a divorce, the last thing that she would be thinking of is sleeping with someone else. The fact that she is suggests that the reason why she wants out is so that she can pursue her object of desire completely unhindered by you. She will fall flat on her face in due course.

 

Take care

 

Nomad1

[onward]

Unfortunately I'm stuck with her, at a certain level -- at least for the rest of my Daughter's life.

 

btw - I realized from some of our conversations in past month that after almost every significant relationship she had (some she was dumpee, some the dumper) she came back to the ex and sought or hoped to reconcile. I even 'witnessed' one of these before we were dating. I suppose I could start an LS pool on how long till she comes back :-) but then again, its not worth the cycles spent on it -- I need to move onwards and be whole myself not pine for her return, and not biding my time to serve a cold revenge dish...

[Gunny376]

Unfortunately I'm stuck with her, at a certain level -- at least for the rest of my Daughter's life.

 

btw - I realized from some of our conversations in past month that after almost every significant relationship she had (some she was dumpee, some the dumper) she came back to the ex and sought or hoped to reconcile. I even 'witnessed' one of these before we were dating. I suppose I could start an LS pool on how long till she comes back :-) but then again, its not worth the cycles spent on it -- I need to move onwards and be whole myself not pine for her return, and not biding my time to serve a cold revenge dish...

 

You need to get your Happy~@ss busy living your life for YOU andyour daughter ~ and no one else!

 

Just that plain!

 

Just that simple!

Edited February 4, 2008 by Gunny376
JUW

[StillSame]

This would be the plan if I choose to ignore her and "bless" the PA, it is also the plan [i guess?] to maximize future reconciliation chances per StillSame?

 

Please don't mis-quote me. I definately will not advise you to let your wife to have a PA and then accept her back later on. If that's what you want, be it, but that's not what I advise you to do.

 

If you really want her back, you should do everything within your power, but within legal limit, to prevent the PA from happening. Begging doesn't work. Find out who this guy is, and expose to everyone whom your W and this guy respect, including her work. This is ONLY if you're sure you want the marriage to work and nothing else. If you want a divorce and minimize support, there is a whole different way to approach this.

[Nomad1]

Onward - why would you even contemplate her possible return to you? How will that work? Will you really forgive and forget? Chances are you won't. Neither will she respect you for taking her back. Ride the pain now and be done with it for good. Toughen up man! You need a new start when you are ready. She will respect you for that.

 

Take care

 

Nomad1

[Gunny376]

I of all people know ~ its freaking hard coming out out a marriage ~ a family ~ etc.

 

But get this straight!! And get it honest!

 

Your single major concern in all this?

 

Is your DD (Dear Daughter) Forget everything else~! Your relationship and connection with your children is the key thing here!!

 

 

Forget alimony, child support! Its your connection with the children that matters!

[onward]

You guys are awesome! My perspective is definitely changing, and I believe in a healthy way (as opposed to blind anger, etc.) plenty of pain and heartache to come, but I'm getting exactly what I was hoping to get from sharing.

 

Please don't mis-quote me. I definately will not advise you to let your wife to have a PA and then accept her back later on. If that's what you want, be it, but that's not what I advise you to do.

 

If you really want her back, you should do everything within your power, but within legal limit, to prevent the PA from happening. Begging doesn't work. Find out who this guy is, and expose to everyone whom your W and this guy respect, including her work. This is ONLY if you're sure you want the marriage to work and nothing else. If you want a divorce and minimize support, there is a whole different way to approach this.

 

StillSame, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I took your statement regarding Lucky's option 1 to mean that if I wanted her back then option 1 would be the path. Lucky's Option 1 prescribed ignoring her actions (I do believe it would only be a matter of time, if not this month then certainly while we're cooling off while waiting for divorce to finalize).

 

The challenge I have with exposing her to prevent the PA is that I'd need to do it this week, and it could really backfire in terms of not giving me the time I need to wait till 1st week of March. She has been affraid of what I might do financially (I guess in her mind its the only way for me to screw her these days), and exposure might have her turning the heat on lawyers, as she is going for 1st consultation in two days.

 

Also, and probably more importantly, how does exposure and embarrassment of W help my Daughter? (it certainly doesn't in the 99% scenario where we we end up in divorce) Friends and family will know about W's transgression -- from that point, their perception of W as evil is likely to also lead to bad feelings by my DD that she herself is flawed too (if Mom is flawed then I'm flawed). I've seen lots of advice that says to keep this sort of negativity towards ex away from family members and friends, as it seeps from them right to the children through casual conversations, etc.

 

Again, thanks all, and good night. I think I'm about to have the best night of sleep in 3 days, and this on the day I discovered the affair, last three nights I was pining for W and couldn't sleep more than 4 hrs -- thank you LS ! I just can't believe I was humming happy tunes while crossing paths with the W around the house tonight...

Edited February 4, 2008 by onward

[Missy27]

The challenge I have with exposing her to prevent the PA is that I'd need to do it this week, and it could really backfire in terms of not giving me the time I need to wait till 1st week of March. She has been affraid of what I might do financially (I guess in her mind its the only way for me to screw her these days), and exposure might have her turning the heat on lawyers, as she is going for 1st consultation in two days.

 

Also, and probably more importantly, how does exposure and embarrassment of W help my Daughter? (it certainly doesn't in the 99% scenario where we we end up in divorce) Friends and family will know about W's transgression -- from that point, their perception of W as evil is likely to also lead to bad feelings by my DD that she herself is flawed too (if Mom is flawed then I'm flawed). I've seen lots of advice that says to keep this sort of negativity towards ex away from family members and friends, as it seeps from them right to the children through casual conversations, etc

 

I keep trying to remind people that exposure is a carefully contrived weapon utilized when attempting to extinguish an affair. It must be executed with obsolete care and caution and under experienced guidance ~ and YES ~ I do believe absolutely that if there are children involved then it should be considered to an even greater extent before execution.

 

I think it's important to consider your own future financial security, which points to remaining silent until March, but I dont think that you requesting that your Wife doesn't date until the divorce is settled is not unjust. At the end of the day, you know that she's going to broach the subject shortly, so you bringing it up prematurely wont necessarily be deemed as suspicious. It's about RESPECT for you, your daughter and the home that you worked so hard to retain.

 

Most of the time, once a woman has emotionally withdrawn from a marriage, it's to a the point where it's pretty unlikely that she's going to change her mind about leaving. Your STBXW has made up her mind to go ~ let her ~ personally ~ I think she's doing you a favour that you might appreciate in the long run

 

The one thing I cant bide is Infidelity ~chuck anything else at me and I'll deal with it ~ but screwing around with someone else (emotionally OR physically) when you've taken a vow pledging faithfulness is beyond despicable ~ I think that there's been a snake in your woodpile for a while now ~ and I'd put money on that being a dominating factor in encouraging your W's decision to leave the marriage.

 

Well ~ sod her ~ if wifey's too weak in the head to keep her knickers on then you're better off without her anyway ~

 

Document EVERYTHING. Make copies of any notebook evidence of an affair, keep a log of ANYTHING & EVERYTHING that you could bring up in court. Not primarily to be utilized to embarress your STBX ~ but if things get ugly in the divorce ~ you'll be glad you have something to produce when the chips are down. Speak with your attorney about this.

 

If it were me ? ~ I'd have told her not to let the door smack her on the a$$ on her a way out a LONG time ago ~ but I understand your predicament. IMO NC (non contact) would be the the most effective step forward now ~

Hopefully some of the others will chip in with more adequate advice in respect to this ~ but for the timebeing make sure you take care of yourself. Eat, sleep, exercise and take some time to relax now and then.

 

THE most important person in this mess IS your D ~ you have to base 99% of your decision making around her ~ be careful ~ and keep your head wired up ~ because its entirely possible that your Wife has some sort of agenda on her mind also.

 

I would also suggest taking a look at the marriagebuilders website. Not necessarily in respect to reconcilliation, but there IS some good information on there.

Edited February 4, 2008 by Missy27

[onward]

I felt very good waking up this morning, and still do. Head definitely in a good zone for moving onward.

 

Document EVERYTHING. Make copies of any notebook evidence of an affair, keep a log of ANYTHING & EVERYTHING that you could bring up in court. Not primarily to be utilized to embarress your STBX ~ but if things get ugly in the divorce ~ you'll be glad you have something to produce when the chips are down. Speak with your attorney about this.

 

Shot MP3 of her new sex kit, and the v-day card this AM. She came back home shortly after (it was a close call).

 

As I was leaving for work she was watching Oprah episode, where a coach type was telling a woman -- how good she was for being very clear, taking a stand, taking charge of her finances, and stating that she needs to move on in no uncertain terms. That's all I heard/saw, not a lot of context, but my wife was watching and seemed to take note. Don't get me wrong, I totally respect Oprah and her guests, the timing though is ironic! My wife has been super clear past 2 months, and I've accepted and am moving down the process. Nevertheless, with her raging desire to move on, I expect I'll be hearing more requests to arrange finances and proceed with separation ASAP...

 

We'll see, but regardless, Lucky's joke really stuck with me. It may cost me big (an extra $200k) if I can't stall till March, but then again it may be worth every penny.

[Mustang Sally]

Wow, Onward.

Sorry to hear about your situation.

It sounds to me like your wife is in the middle of a mid-life crisis of epic proportions.

 

I also have to say, that it is my guess that at this point the MC is probably a futile endeavor on her part. She sounds like she's talking the "I'm done with this" talk regarding your marriage. I'm not condoning that behavior on her part, just giving you my opinion based on what you've written.

 

I think the others, above, who've suggested you prepare for her to move on are correct. And I agree that the best way to do this is to get yourself squared away. This is a situation when - in my opinion - it's not only best, but imperative for you to "look out for number one" and also for your daughter, of course.

 

Let your wife lie in the bed she has made. She may eventually come to realize that she has lost the best thing she had going....or maybe she will move on and be better off as well. Who knows?

 

But the important thing is for you to move forward for yourself and your daughter. From the sound of it, you will probably be the more stable force in her life, as your wife sounds lost - for the moment - in her second adolescence.

 

Again - I'm sorry you are facing this tough situation, but you sound like you're a decent guy and I'm sure you'll weather the storm ok in the end.

Keep us posted.

[onward]

Wife met with her lawyer, and we're meeting with child specialist tomorrow to discuss "ideal living arrangements". Although I'd like to open it a bit broader to overall impact of divorce. W says we also need to choose a financial adviser, her lawyer said we could use same guy. This is all lining up for collaborative divorce, hence all these parties.

 

Anyone have experience with collaborative divorce? Anyone feel they've gotten screwed in the collab process?

 

The good news I guess is that if things don't work out (i.e. we can't agree on everything), then you just start again only with mediation or judge based process. The one thing that is weird in the process is that if your lawyer thinks you are hiding stuff they actually are committed to share with the other party. This is one of the provisions that is supposed to protect both parties. I'm not planning to hide anything, in March the financials become un-disputable.

 

I was ok with the first lawyer I found, but wife asked if I was uncomfortable that my lawyer is a woman (that's partly why I picked her, guess who is uncomfortable...) I'm using the "need to look at one or two others" as a stall tactic, since my W suggested it. Also, finding finance person will take a couple of meetings. 3 weeks and we're in March...

 

My therapist says W, like me, is actually maneuvering for best $ and house outcome, she isn't talking about seeing other people because she doesn't want to piss me off before divorce process. I think he may be right, since W just suggested we pick and consult with finance person before she even talks to her lawyer again. W definitely wants to hear child specialist on ideal housing arrangements, before meeting finance guy. IMHO all this pre-process stuff doesn't make a wit of difference to outcome, but hey, it helps me stall.

 

Other news: overnight, a career opportunity appeared. Our CEO is moving out of day-to-day operations and we're creating a COO position to run things. I'm one of two internal candidates for the job. Past 7 months I've been looking outside. The catch is that I'd need to be in Boston to run the company. If I want this, then I could do the bi-coastal commute (week in boston, week in Cali), and still have DD every other week here in CA. Largest investor called last night and told me I had his support. However, to really go for it and to have management and board's support I feel that I'd need to be at the next board meeting in person, not via video-conference as previously planned. Guess when the board meeting happens - Feb 14th... Valentines day.

 

So... going for the job means giving W open door to go off, have fun on Valentine's day. But... I also need to figure if this bi-coastal thing is ideal for DD and me. It will focus me on work and get me busy on weeks without DD. It may tire me out big time taking those long flights (Boston to cali is often 7 hrs). But it does get me into another league in terms of career opportunities, and gets my mind off of W. Therapist says that at age 5 it could work for DD, but in a year or two there will be too many things I miss (e.g. recitals, school plays, etc.). I'm looking at it as a 6 to 12 month thing to boost resume and have "fun" running the show (we're looking to sell the company within a year), and there is plenty of hard cleanup work to do.

 

Last thing, W was bummed last night. Said she needed to "think about our whole situation", didn't want to talk. Given the track record I figured it is noise in the system, and she'll come back re-invigorated to push on for divorce. My therapist said that it is most likely the OM was not available and that's her frustration. When she just mentioned all these specialists and introduced some delays herself I got to thinking that, maybe, she too is stalling. Except for her it is the need to have sex with this guy before going full steam ahead. Irrespective of her actions and motives I'm moving ahead, and we'll see what happens -- Unless I confront her on the affair I figure she'll get together with him week of Feb17 when I'm in Utah with DD and investor I mentioned above.

Edited February 6, 2008 by onward

[StillSame]

What do you know about this OM?

[onward]

Nothing really.

 

I suspect I know the town he lives in because she made a ridiculous "hypothesis" that she may want have apt there while our daughter stays here. I say ridiculous because it is a 1.5 hr commute each way.

 

I suspect he is involved with Landmark Education, because she's been doing that for a while, and had the "aha" moment there (that being that she never loved me, but didn't listen to herself). And lately she's been going there without her rings.

 

She went out with a very very close friend of hers who stayed with us this past weekend (it's not him). But... in the photos she took, out of 12 pics, her friend that she hasn't seen in 2+ years is in 6, and some random guy was in 7, including a pic just of him, and a picture of him taking a picture of my wife taking his picture. So I may know what he looks like. If it is him, he's no Adonis, which means that the connection was probably emotional -- despite all her bitching that she wasn't that attracted to me from the get-go, and that she wants to be alive sexually, etc. Lately she recanted some of this crap, but whatever.

[Mr. Lucky]

Other news: overnight, a career opportunity appeared. Our CEO is moving out of day-to-day operations and we're creating a COO position to run things. I'm one of two internal candidates for the job. Past 7 months I've been looking outside. The catch is that I'd need to be in Boston to run the company. If I want this, then I could do the bi-coastal commute (week in boston, week in Cali), and still have DD every other week here in CA. Largest investor called last night and told me I had his support. However, to really go for it and to have management and board's support I feel that I'd need to be at the next board meeting in person, not via video-conference as previously planned. Guess when the board meeting happens - Feb 14th... Valentines day.

 

So... going for the job means giving W open door to go off, have fun on Valentine's day. But... I also need to figure if this bi-coastal thing is ideal for DD and me. It will focus me on work and get me busy on weeks without DD. It may tire me out big time taking those long flights (Boston to cali is often 7 hrs). But it does get me into another league in terms of career opportunities, and gets my mind off of W. Therapist says that at age 5 it could work for DD, but in a year or two there will be too many things I miss (e.g. recitals, school plays, etc.). I'm looking at it as a 6 to 12 month thing to boost resume and have "fun" running the show (we're looking to sell the company within a year), and there is plenty of hard cleanup work to do.

Congrats onward, you seem to have developed a healthy BS detector that will serve you well going forward. I hope it goes smoothly!

 

I did have a comment on your proposed re-location as I had a similar situation when my exW and I split up. The opportunity took me from the West Coast to Michigan, with liberal travel allowances and time off. Like you, it was a step forward, career-wise.

 

But I didn't do it. I wanted to be there every day for my son and that meant going to every Little League game, PTA meeting, doctor's appt. and Open House. I needed him to recover from the break-up of my marriage as much as he needed me. Couldn't be done from 2000 miles away or on a week on/week off arragement.

 

Something for you to think about...

 

Mr. Lucky

[onward]

I hear you Lucky. I'm open to the job, but am very concerned about impact to relationship with DD. I had lunch with a former colleague who faced this exact situation 17 years back. In his case, he felt he had to pull the geographic career move and reset his life. The prospects of staying local were too hard - his ex polluted the waters, and even if he stayed local he would need to change church, find new friends (they all took her side), even though she had EA & PA, etc. etc. So I asked him if there were any lead indicators, like was she nasty during the divorce -- and he said yes, absolutely. And as a result, he had to do the Florida-to-Seattle commute every other week. But... for him it was the best move for him to recover his sanity.

 

He knows our CEO, and did point out to me that the guy will be working to undermine my new role (probably true). So if divorce lines up to be "amicable," etc. I will probably pass on the job. I certainly hope my situation doesn't go down the path he described. I need to take care of DD and me.

 

I'm thinking of pulling a big tough-love move on wife in early March. To be super cool and serious about it, as I'll be in good financial position for divorce. However, I don't exactly know what harsh reality items to use, so am open to suggestion and curious about your thoughts. Keep in mind, that we're interviewing lawyers at the moment, so saying "you want a divorce you got it" ain't very harsh.

 

Some basics I have so far is to describe to her how I see the divorce lining up financially (no house for her, she has no job, etc.), which may or may not deter her since she is driving towards the divorce. Do I kick her out over the EA? her lawyer will probably tell her that she can get "protected," and that I need to pay to support her apartment. How do I play the confirmed EA card? etc.

 

Any thoughts welcome.

Edited February 7, 2008 by onward