How does the MM really feel about the OW?

[OWoman]

We get it, OWoman. You feel you have somehow 'won' and are the exception to the rule.

 

On the contrary. My point is not that I'm an exception, but that perhaps your "rule" is wrong. If there are so many of us here - and you can count them - whose MM have left their Ws just recently for the OW, that's rather more than the 10% you bandy around.

 

Instead of doom and gloom and the predictions of fire and brimstone lurking behind the "stats" you toss around, how about painting a more realistic picture - that some (and proportion doesn't matter, since there are no stats here merely people's favourite prejudices, one way or the other, and a bunch of anecdotes) MM do leave their W for the OW, that sometimes it does work out in the long run, that yes there are struggles and yes there are challenges, instead of pretending some radio freak show approximates reality?

 

Will you ever move on past being the other woman, though? It seems you keep holding on to that stigma, even naming yourself OWoman. Isn't it time you changed your name to Main Squeeze or something more current? Or do you feel you will always be the other woman?

 

Few people change their boardnames and seldom without the issue being forced (like they get banned). I have no shame in being an Other Woman, so have no "stigma" to hold on to.

[Tame]

I am bored to tears with debating/0discussing this:

 

 

 

Your thread topic is still mildly entertaining for me, you'll know when I get bored with it.

 

 

 

Brace yourself for this comment because you are NOT going to believe this but I am really not all that bad, and don't just take it from me because I have a pretty healthy self image, but in my life I have a lot of wonderful people who's assesment of me is what matters most and they seem to think I pass the "test". Really when it comes down to it you should only concern yourself with the people that matter to you most, the rest, people are people...what can you do? You can always file it under "life's little msyteries"?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah I think so too, there are are people who D and have someone else on the side and no one knows about it. As I also think that there are men/women who regret their actions and truly made a mistake in having an affair and want to do everything to show their spouses how sorry they are and how much they really do love their spouses, these people do stay and make it work and the A really was a mistake never to be committed again. As long as a choice is made and they stick to the choice that pretty much denotes where the person's head is at. It's the wafflers that you really have to put under the magnifying glass, they are small people that really need to be looked at in more detail, or disposed of. One of the two....

 

Tomcat, I get you. I really do. I don't automatically assume anyone is bad, even someone who's made poor choices (and tries covertly to defend them) we are only human. As a matter of fact, I was thinking last night that I respect any woman, currently engaged in an affair or not, who seeks friendship, advice, solice or even validation on the internet b/c that means she is reaching out, even if she is not 100% sure what it is she is reaching for. To me that means she has a heart and wants to share a part of herself with others and really that is why she is involved in an EMA in the first place is b/c she has the capacity to give and has heart that wants to love others. I also think that is why she is a candidate to be taken advantage of in an EMA b/c the MM knows she has a heart and he can pull her strings to his advantage. I don't put all of the blame on the man but since they are the ones that often choose to continue an affair as opposed to changing their circumstances, the bulk of the blame must be placed on their shoulder.

 

I promise I am not judging people when I post I just call it like I see it.

 

I also get that we wouldn't be discussing the topic that has bored you to tears had you not brought it up. Don't get bored with it now, I'm just getting started.

[silktricks]

I don't know what fraction of the time he is a good person or simply a rotten person. Again, case by case...

 

I'm not too fond of labeling people. Note - I didn't say he was a good person - just not a bad person. If I was going to apply a label, I'd say he was a confused person. (Again, for the most part - there are exceptions to everything .)

[silktricks]

I find this interesting because in most of the post d-day threads, it is common for the OW to say that the BS should only blame the MM. I happen to agree with that and I do believe that affairs are all about what the MM is missing and how he is dealing with his own issues. But I agree to disagree with what you are saying. Or maybe we are saying the same thing in different way, I just don't know.

 

The difference could be that I'm not talking blame. I don't view it as a "blame" situation, but rather as an unhappy situation for all involved. The amount of vitriol that gets spread by all concerned doesn't really do anyone any good. It would be far better for all three parties to look inside themselves with an eye to what they personally could do to improve their lives. None of the parties involved are going to change how any one of the others will react. The only person I can control is me.

 

So, IMO it is not beneficial to one's own self to say that an affair is only about one of the three people involved. It isn't. It's about all three and choices and actions each of those three people makes.

[Tame]

I will repost what I said earlier and maybe this will end the debate about whether or not I think ALL MM simply use their OW for sex:

 

"What is the moral of the story? It is very likely, although there are exceptions, that what your MM is feeding you is a load of crap. Remember, only 10% leave their wives for the other woman. That means 90% are being played." Tame

 

For those of you who don't believe most men don't leave for the OW, think of all the people you know who got a divorce. Now think of how many of them are now married to or seeing the 'other woman.' (Besides OWoman ) If you know the wife, you know if the new woman is the 'other woman.' Think of your own parents divorce. Did one of your parents marry the side man or woman and bring them into the home as your new step mom or dad? It happens but not often enough not to believe statistics that show the MM and MW do not leave their spouses for the person they cheated with. They usually end up with someone else. That's a fact.

[Impudent Oyster]

OWoman, just curious, I've been away from the boards for a long while - last I knew MM was still with his wife, has he left her? Are you two living together now?

 

How's she doing (the wife). I know there was a concern that she might go off the deep end if he left?

[Tame]

The difference could be that I'm not talking blame. I don't view it as a "blame" situation, but rather as an unhappy situation for all involved. The amount of vitriol that gets spread by all concerned doesn't really do anyone any good. It would be far better for all three parties to look inside themselves with an eye to what they personally could do to improve their lives. None of the parties involved are going to change how any one of the others will react. The only person I can control is me.

 

So, IMO it is not beneficial to one's own self to say that an affair is only about one of the three people involved. It isn't. It's about all three and choices and actions each of those three people makes.

 

I have never been on the losing end of an EMA, in other words, I've never been married and had my husband cheat on me. However, if that did happen to me I would be upset with anyone who suggests that my husband's decision to sleep with another woman should somehow cause me to be introspective. No marriage is perfect but I'll be damned if my husband's infidelity is the thing that causes me to examine myself. The only thing I would examine is my taste in men. If my husband wasn't man enough to tell me how disatisfied he was with me, then I surely am not going to make up reasons why my husband cheated. It's not fair to the innocent party to torture themselves with that type of introspection, IMO.

[herenow]

The difference could be that I'm not talking blame. I don't view it as a "blame" situation, but rather as an unhappy situation for all involved. The amount of vitriol that gets spread by all concerned doesn't really do anyone any good. It would be far better for all three parties to look inside themselves with an eye to what they personally could do to improve their lives. None of the parties involved are going to change how any one of the others will react. The only person I can control is me.

 

So, IMO it is not beneficial to one's own self to say that an affair is only about one of the three people involved. It isn't. It's about all three and choices and actions each of those three people makes.

 

I was referring to the many threads I have read stating that the MM is to be blamed and the BW should not place blame on the OW for what the BW's husband has done. (Does that make sense? I home sick today and my brain is fuzzy).

 

When my H had an affair, I did blame him 100%. He was the one that made the choice to have sex with an OW. I had nothing to do with that. The issues that we had in our marriage were a different story. I do take responsibility for my part of what was wrong in the relationship between my H and myself. I will never take any responsibility for my H's affair and he has never placed any blame on me either. (I think there is a whole thread on this, it sounds familiar)

 

I think I need some meds and lots of sleep. It's been a long time since I've been sick and I don't like it very much!

 

See ya lata!

Edited February 6, 2008 by herenow

[Tomcat33]

For those of you who don't believe most men don't leave for the OW, think of all the people you know who got a divorce. Now think of how many of them are now married to or seeing the 'other woman.' (Besides OWoman ) If you know the wife, you know if the new woman is the 'other woman.' Think of your own parents divorce. Did one of your parents marry the side man or woman and bring them into the home as your new step mom or dad? It happens but not often enough not to believe statistics that show the MM and MW do not leave their spouses for the person they cheated with. They usually end up with someone else. That's a fact.

 

 

Out of curiosity how do you/they come up with these stats?

 

To answer you question, in my life I don't anyone that has had an A except me, does that mean all those who surround me never had an A possibly...if I don't know by now I will possibly never know this, so I haven't a clue what the outcome is based on my personal reality.

[Tame]

I was referring to the many threads I have read stating that the MM is to be blamed and the BW should not place blame on the OW for what the BW's husband has done. (Does that make sense? I home sick today and my brain is fuzzy).

 

When my H had an affair, I did blame him 100%. He was the one that made the choice to have sex with an OW. I had nothing to do with that. The issues that we had in our marriage were a different story. I do take responsibility for my part of what was wrong in the relationship between my H and myself. I will never take any responsibility for my H's affair and he has never placed any blame on me either. (I think there is a whole thread on this, it sounds familiar)

 

Oh I see. I think the OW and the Ex definitely have more issues than the wife is she was truly faithful. Surely the MM gave the W reasons to be suspicious and maybe even reasons to cheat but the fact that the W did not go outside of the marriage vows seeking a release gives me reason to give her major props. The MM isn't the only one to blame but I think MOST of the blame has to be put on him b/c he made a commitment to the W, not the OW.

[TogetherForever]

I will repost what I said earlier and maybe this will end the debate about whether or not I think ALL MM simply use their OW for sex:

 

"What is the moral of the story? It is very likely, although there are exceptions, that what your MM is feeding you is a load of crap. Remember, only 10% leave their wives for the other woman. That means 90% are being played." Tame

 

For those of you who don't believe most men don't leave for the OW, think of all the people you know who got a divorce. Now think of how many of them are now married to or seeing the 'other woman.' (Besides OWoman ) If you know the wife, you know if the new woman is the 'other woman.' Think of your own parents divorce. Did one of your parents marry the side man or woman and bring them into the home as your new step mom or dad? It happens but not often enough not to believe statistics that show the MM and MW do not leave their spouses for the person they cheated with. They usually end up with someone else. That's a fact.

 

 

Hi Tame,

My dad left & divorced my mom & married his OW. They've been married for years & years now.

My man left his wife & we've been together for 8 years.

Just sayin'.

TF

[Owl]

Tame-

 

What are you hoping to get out of this thread? Support? Advice? Are you posting something with an intent to help those involved in an affair in some aspect?

[Impudent Oyster]

Tame-

 

What are you hoping to get out of this thread? Support? Advice? Are you posting something with an intent to help those involved in an affair in some aspect?

 

I'm not Tame but I can see that this post should give OW an idea of what the MM's intentions are, or aren't as the case may likely be.

 

You don't think it's helpful for OW to know that they're wasting their time or being used?

 

I guess it's something that's best to be experienced before it can be believed. Oh well.

[silktricks]

However, if that did happen to me I would be upset with anyone who suggests that my husband's decision to sleep with another woman should somehow cause me to be introspective. No marriage is perfect but I'll be damned if my husband's infidelity is the thing that causes me to examine myself. The only thing I would examine is my taste in men. If my husband wasn't man enough to tell me how disatisfied he was with me, then I surely am not going to make up reasons why my husband cheated. It's not fair to the innocent party to torture themselves with that type of introspection, IMO.

 

I would think that any traumatic event in a person's life would cause a person to be introspective to a degree. Examination regarding the BS's taste in men is certainly introspective, and would definitely be one of the things to be examined. That is certainly one of the choices the BS made which led her to the situation she is in.

 

The OW made the same choice (at least in this man), and it would probably behoove her to similarly examine her choices and point in life.

 

The MM made the choice to marry a woman he is no longer satisfied with and bed yet another woman - who at least in some measure does not apparently fully satisfy him either (using the assumption that if she was fully satisfying he would leave his wife and the OW would no longer be an OW.)

 

I certainly don't know what all may come of each persons introspection, but I absolutely believe that something will come for each person. All 3 people are in a bad situation, and there are reasons that all 3 arrived at that point.

 

I hope that at least one of the reasons for our existence is to learn. If we do not look at our inner self during times of tribulation we are not making full use of our time here.

[OWoman]

OWoman, just curious, I've been away from the boards for a long while - last I knew MM was still with his wife, has he left her? Are you two living together now?

 

How's she doing (the wife). I know there was a concern that she might go off the deep end if he left?

 

MM left his W, he's staying close to his W as the kids are shuffling between them (mostly with him - their choice) while they talk things through in counselling. MM and the kids, that is - W refuses to go, although they're discussing and agreeing on stuff that's going to affect her (like, who the kids want to stay with, and where that's likely to be...) We're planning to be together, have done stuff like shopped for houses, while waiting on paperwork to get finalised.

 

His W - is not in a good way. She loses it completely from time to time but is mostly in denial that things are really over. She doesn't believe there is "someone else" and thinks his leaving is just a strategy to get her into MC so that MM and the counsellor can "gang up on her" again and she's having none of it. The kids are begging her to go to family counselling with them but so far, no luck. I do hope she does get to counselling of some sort, as she's not doing too well, and once MM moves away completely - especially if the kids go too, as seems likely at this point - I don't know what she'll do.

[Owl]

I'm not Tame but I can see that this post should give OW an idea of what the MM's intentions are, or aren't as the case may likely be.

 

You don't think it's helpful for OW to know that they're wasting their time or being used?

 

I guess it's something that's best to be experienced before it can be believed. Oh well.

 

That's the thing. I am completely against affairs in any fashion. I don't support or condone them at all.

 

But you know that the vast majority of OW here (or on any other site) will either insist that they're in the minority that are likely to succeed, or will flat out reject the idea out of hand. So debating this kind of thing generally doesn't do anything but cause heartburn.

 

I'm curious if Tame thought that posting this would make a difference, or just posted it to see the flames go up. Or if Tame had some other motive behind the thread.

[NoIDidn't]

Why does anyone post a thread? To get responses to it.

 

I happen to find that most MM would claim once caught to the people that matter in his real life, that the OW meant nothing to him, that he didn't love her, and my personal favorite - that she was a mistake.

 

Whether or not one agrees or disagrees with a statistic doesn't change it. No one here has a sample size large enough to claim that the stats aren't true or false. Even if the currently used stats only used 1100 married people in an airport, no one here personally knows 1100 married couples to say that they have enough info to debate that stat.

 

Radio show, Oprah, Dr. Phil, or whomever - the OPs will always insist that those people don't know what they are saying, or are hypocrites, or are crackpots, or whatever. Anyone who says that As are wrong, or the MPs aren't that into the OPs is always going to be disagreed with by those in those situations or similar.

[Tame]

That's the thing. I am completely against affairs in any fashion. I don't support or condone them at all.

 

But you know that the vast majority of OW here (or on any other site) will either insist that they're in the minority that are likely to succeed, or will flat out reject the idea out of hand. So debating this kind of thing generally doesn't do anything but cause heartburn.

 

I'm curious if Tame thought that posting this would make a difference, or just posted it to see the flames go up. Or if Tame had some other motive behind the thread.

 

 

Well maybe if you took the time to read what I have typed ad nauseum in this thread you will know the reason for my post. Go back and actually read my posts and them let me know if you still confused about my 'motives.'

 

Thanks

 

ETA: Better yet, I'll make it easy for you. But before I do, I think it's kind of immature to come in to a thread and judge someone as being a troll and closing your mind to the possibiity that they are genuine by refusing to read what they have actually said.

 

"I realize...

that there are women on here who have previously been or are currently involved in affairs with MM. I have not taken the time to nor am I interested in reading everyone's story to catch up on what has been going on in your lives so my posts are not addressing anyone in particular. My posts are not to accuse or judge anyone. If you cannot bear reading my thoughts about women empowering themselves and rising above these emotionally dead end relationships then don't read them because they are not meant for you. However if you are currently struggling to get out of an EMA or having thought about entering one, I obviously am not cruel enough to recommend 'doing your own thing' in this regard. There are a million ways to do your own thing and doing someone else's thing and taking on their problems should be last on your list of things to do. That my honest opinion and it's all love." Tame

Edited February 6, 2008 by Tame
Clarity

[OWoman]

Think of your own parents divorce. Did one of your parents marry the side man or woman and bring them into the home as your new step mom or dad?

 

My father waited until the kids were all out of the house, then divorced my mother and married his OW. They're still together - have been together longer than he was with my mother, now.

 

If we're doing anecdotal stuff, I can related lots of instances of people I know where the MM married his OW, or the MW her OM, but probably only because

those are the ones you get to hear about.The other "failed" As, like failed Rs of different kinds, simply fade into history and are never spoken of again, whereas the As that become LTRs or Ms are trumpeted around and celebrated publicly. I don't believe any of that makes for reliable "stats", it's just anecdote, and until a reliable and systematic study is done with proper scientific sampling and a robust research methodology, we're in the realm of he said / she said.

[NoIDidn't]

...and until a reliable and systematic study is done with proper scientific sampling and a robust research methodology, we're in the realm of he said / she said.

 

And even when another study is done with all the desired protocols and sampling requirements, it will STILL be debated by those that don't like the outcome.

 

I don't think the stats we have are basic "he said, she said", at least they DID have a sample group. Anything said on this forum about people we know IS "he said, she said" though, and is totally subjective.

[silktricks]

If we're doing anecdotal stuff...

 

Oh well, if we're doing anecdotal stuff, my husband's first wife thinks (has always thought, and has told their daughter numerous times) that I am/was the OW. The truth is that I met him a few weeks after his divorce from her was final.

 

So.... sometimes it also appears that the MM left for an OW - but really didn't .

[OWoman]

I would think that any traumatic event in a person's life would cause a person to be introspective to a degree. Examination regarding the BS's taste in men is certainly introspective, and would definitely be one of the things to be examined. That is certainly one of the choices the BS made which led her to the situation she is in.

 

The OW made the same choice (at least in this man), and it would probably behoove her to similarly examine her choices and point in life.

 

The MM made the choice to marry a woman he is no longer satisfied with and bed yet another woman - who at least in some measure does not apparently fully satisfy him either (using the assumption that if she was fully satisfying he would leave his wife and the OW would no longer be an OW.)

 

I certainly don't know what all may come of each persons introspection, but I absolutely believe that something will come for each person. All 3 people are in a bad situation, and there are reasons that all 3 arrived at that point.

 

I hope that at least one of the reasons for our existence is to learn. If we do not look at our inner self during times of tribulation we are not making full use of our time here.

 

Silk, I don't see how anyone could possibly disagree with this.

[Tame]

And even when another study is done with all the desired protocols and sampling requirements, it will STILL be debated by those that don't like the outcome.

 

I don't think the stats we have are basic "he said, she said", at least they DID have a sample group. Anything said on this forum about people we know IS "he said, she said" though, and is totally subjective.

 

You are alright with me, very rational.

[Impudent Oyster]

MM left his W, he's staying close to his W as the kids are shuffling between them (mostly with him - their choice) while they talk things through in counselling. MM and the kids, that is - W refuses to go, although they're discussing and agreeing on stuff that's going to affect her (like, who the kids want to stay with, and where that's likely to be...) We're planning to be together, have done stuff like shopped for houses, while waiting on paperwork to get finalised.

 

His W - is not in a good way. She loses it completely from time to time but is mostly in denial that things are really over. She doesn't believe there is "someone else" and thinks his leaving is just a strategy to get her into MC so that MM and the counsellor can "gang up on her" again and she's having none of it. The kids are begging her to go to family counselling with them but so far, no luck. I do hope she does get to counselling of some sort, as she's not doing too well, and once MM moves away completely - especially if the kids go too, as seems likely at this point - I don't know what she'll do.

 

Wow, what a mess. Thanks for the update, and sorry about the threadjack everyone.

[NoIDidn't]

Let me give you some of my advice...

 

When you're new here, as your number of posts suggests, give respect where it's earned...and Owl has earned that respect in his posts...don't namecall because you got called out...

 

GEL

 

That doesn't seem fair to me. Why say she needs to respect someone that hasn't really shown her much since she posted this? In her defense, she is giving exactly what she was given. Owl hasn't earned much respect in his posts to her because he came across as if he suspected her of being a troll or just trying to stir things up.

 

Respect is certainly earned, but in some instances, it needs to first be given. Tame is like a new family member, is the constant questioning of his/her motives really all that welcoming?

 

And no Owl, I am not attacking you - just hoping to help a newbie feel more comfortable being herself in her posts.