How does the MM really feel about the OW?

[silktricks]

But isn't that the advice that therapists give for almost all relationships? To lower your expectations.

 

I don't think that is settling, per se. It really depends on which standards a person is lowering. Its foolish to think that just because a W took a WH back means that she is settling. She is often telling him, I'll stay but you best not to cheat ever again in your life. How is that settling?

 

It is lowering expectations though, because she really has no choice. The cheating has already been done and that's it.

 

IMO choosing to take back a spouse who has cheated is not "necessarily" settling. It can be - and I would say that it probably is if it happens over and over and over again.

 

I would definitely say that it is not lowering expectations, however. Expectation implies future events not those in the past. I have definitely NOT lowered my expectation of future behavior on the part of my husband. In point of fact, I have raised my expectations. He now has a better understanding of behavior I expect from him than he did in the past. He now understands what part his behavior played in my actions, as I understand what part my behavior played in his actions.

 

I expect him to no longer exhibit the behavior that led to my feelings of dissatisfaction in the marriage. He expects me to no longer exhibit the behavior that led to his feelings of dissatisfaction. We both expect the other to communicate any dissatisfaction we may feel in a timely manner. As a result of our raising our expectations for each other our marriage is much better than it ever was.

[Tomcat33]

In a perfect world no one would ever take their partners for granted. Unfortunately, that world doesn't exist.

 

I can say for myself:

 

I felt I was being taken for granted.

I was angry about some things that happened that I hadn't dealt with.

I felt I was completely and utterly over worked, over stressed and ill, and thought my husband wasn't carrying his share.

I didn't know if I wanted to continue on with the marriage.

 

As a result of those things, though, I didn't choose to have an affair. I chose to separate for a time to see if I felt better about marriage in general and marriage with him specifically.

 

But, did my husband feel that he was special with me during that time? no, he didn't. Was that an excuse for what he did? No, it wasn't. But it did provide a basis for discussing all of our problems, his AND mine in the marriage.

 

I do not believe that there is ever an excuse for having an affair. That said, I also don't believe that the people who engage in them are all terrible people who should be chastised or nagged or vilified or ..... etc.

 

 

Yes I understand that we do not live in a perfect world, or that we can't be "on" 100% of the time or that we can't sustain perfectly balanced and loving relationships 100% of the time. Life catches up with us and it eats away at our energy and will to give, I get it! What I don't get is how couples allow their rels/marriages to reach such crutial low pit of despair and then the inevitable happens and its a wakeup call for all and all that work that was being avoided all that time when the relationship went off the deep end, is now being replaced TWO FOLD by the amount of work, energy and dedication it takes to truly recover from an affair.

 

I don't understand how people in this day in age could let their relationships slip like that, I really don't. What's the point of being married if you are not going to work at it? It seems people sign the papers, come back from the honeymoon use up the wedding gifts a bit then look at each other and decide "let's have kids" then they throw themselves at anything BUT the marriage and "hope for the best" What is that?

Is that not selfishness?

 

I see people involved in affairs being called "selfish" all the time, and we are selfish yes I agree, but isn't throwing yourself into anything but your marriage not acting selfish as well? Isn't NOT putting your spouse first and making sure you do things for them on an on-going basis to ensure they know you still love them NOT selfish as well?

[NoIDidn't]

IMO choosing to take back a spouse who has cheated is not "necessarily" settling. It can be - and I would say that it probably is if it happens over and over and over again.

 

I would definitely say that it is not lowering expectations, however. Expectation implies future events not those in the past. I have definitely NOT lowered my expectation of future behavior on the part of my husband. In point of fact, I have raised my expectations. He now has a better understanding of behavior I expect from him than he did in the past. He now understands what part his behavior played in my actions, as I understand what part my behavior played in his actions.

 

I expect him to no longer exhibit the behavior that led to my feelings of dissatisfaction in the marriage. He expects me to no longer exhibit the behavior that led to his feelings of dissatisfaction. We both expect the other to communicate any dissatisfaction we may feel in a timely manner. As a result of our raising our expectations for each other our marriage is much better than it ever was.

 

Let me clarify.

 

Its not lowering the expectation that he will never cheat again. That's not even a consideration.

 

Its lowering the expectation of the perfect, non-statistic affected marriage. That's a hard blow to take. Who wants to admit that their spouse cheated on them? I didn't.

 

So, no, I would never accept cheating again. That's not the lowered expectation that I was speaking of.

[NoIDidn't]

Yes I understand that we do not live in a perfect world, or that we can't be "on" 100% of the time or that we can't sustain perfectly balanced and loving relationships 100% of the time. Life catches up with us and it eats away at our energy and will to give, I get it! What I don't get is how couples allow their rels/marriages to reach such crutial low pit of despair and then the inevitable happens and its a wakeup call for all and all that work that was being avoided all that time when the relationship went off the deep end, is now being replaced TWO FOLD by the amount of work, energy and dedication it takes to truly recover from an affair.

 

I don't understand how people in this day in age could let their relationships slip like that, I really don't. What's the point of being married if you are not going to work at it? It seems people sign the papers, come back from the honeymoon use up the wedding gifts a bit then look at each other and decide "let's have kids" then they throw themselves at anything BUT the marriage and "hope for the best" What is that?

Is that not selfishness?

 

I see people involved in affairs being called "selfish" all the time, and we are selfish yes I agree, but isn't throwing yourself into anything but your marriage not acting selfish as well? Isn't NOT putting your spouse first and making sure you do things for them on an on-going basis to ensure they know you still love them NOT selfish as well?

 

Yeah, but there are levels of selfishness.

 

Its not selfish to take care of your kids more than your H, especially if your H doesn't carry his own weight in that arena. Its not too selfish to have your own activities, so long as they are agreed upon by both H and W.

 

But you answered your own question about why people let their Ms slide to that point: life. Life gets in the way. You will have to work twice as hard on a M whether or not an A happened. It could be a serious illness in a family member that takes away from the M. It could be a serious illness in one of the marriage partners that takes away from the intimacy in the M. It could be a disabled child, or a child that didn't start off disabled but was in some sort of accident.

 

No offense, TC, but your post comes off like that of a single woman with no kids. There is nothing wrong with that. So please don't take this as me saying that you don't know what you are talking about. I used to say the same things when I was single. I used to say similar things even after marriage before the kids and the house and the bigger obligations came along. I don't even have much time to keep my family of origin Rs the way that they were before I got married.

 

My point: sometimes the taking each other for granted can't be helped. But it can be overcome.

[Tomcat33]

Let me clarify.

 

Its not lowering the expectation that he will never cheat again. That's not even a consideration.

 

Its lowering the expectation of the perfect, non-statistic affected marriage. That's a hard blow to take. Who wants to admit that their spouse cheated on them? I didn't.

 

So, no, I would never accept cheating again. That's not the lowered expectation that I was speaking of.

 

 

You know what? I think you have just hit on something very important, inadevertantly perhaps...I think lowered expectations is not such a bad thing. I mean maybe a little less expectations would have helped a couple avoid an A? Let me explain... In that what I mean is people go into a relationship sometimes thinking, "no X will never cheat on me I am 100% sure of that" and so with that attitude we allow ourselves to slip, we allow ourselves to act in ways that are less than desirable and because we have this unfounded security that there isn't even a 1% change that the unspeakable can happen we slip and allow ourselves to fall.

 

I was always of the idea that a person should trust another person 99%, the since that 1% is enough to keep your duties in line and your relationshiop in check.

[Tomcat33]

Yeah, but there are levels of selfishness.

 

Its not selfish to take care of your kids more than your H, especially if your H doesn't carry his own weight in that arena. Its not too selfish to have your own activities, so long as they are agreed upon by both H and W.

 

But you answered your own question about why people let their Ms slide to that point: life. Life gets in the way. You will have to work twice as hard on a M whether or not an A happened. It could be a serious illness in a family member that takes away from the M. It could be a serious illness in one of the marriage partners that takes away from the intimacy in the M. It could be a disabled child, or a child that didn't start off disabled but was in some sort of accident.

 

No offense, TC, but your post comes off like that of a single woman with no kids. There is nothing wrong with that. So please don't take this as me saying that you don't know what you are talking about. I used to say the same things when I was single. I used to say similar things even after marriage before the kids and the house and the bigger obligations came along. I don't even have much time to keep my family of origin Rs the way that they were before I got married.

 

My point: sometimes the taking each other for granted can't be helped. But it can be overcome.

 

No offense taken and I am a single woman with far less "responsibilities" than those with kids and a husband it's true. But I also know of couples that surround me that have all that and they work VERY hard to make everything flow choosing carefully not to let any aspect of the marital/parental duties slip. So it CAN be done. Granted you can't be in 10 places at the same time but some couples can't even be in one place at the same time and that's what I am talking about.

 

I lived with someone for a long time so I know what it's like to have life catch up with you and we were also taking care of two sick relatives at the time one lived with us the other didn't so even though I may have not experienced having kids, which we ALL know changes things but it doesn't have to change things for the bad FOREVER (some couples use that as an excuse) then I know all too well what it's like to have to juggle different hats at once, and there is no excuse .You are either in it together or you are not.

 

Taking each other for granted ALWAYS can be helped, please don't make excuses. A partnership can change for periods of time when our duties become overwhelming but this is always a way to show your partner you really care, even if it isn't in the full on way you used to show them that before you were consumed with life's challenges.

[NoIDidn't]

You know what? I think you have just hit on something very important, inadevertantly perhaps...I think lowered expectations is not such a bad thing. I mean maybe a little less expectations would have helped a couple avoid an A? Let me explain... In that what I mean is people go into a relationship sometimes thinking, "no X will never cheat on me I am 100% sure of that" and so with that attitude we allow ourselves to slip, we allow ourselves to act in ways that are less than desirable and because we have this unfounded security that there isn't even a 1% change that the unspeakable can happen we slip and allow ourselves to fall.

 

I was always of the idea that a person should trust another person 99%, the since that 1% is enough to keep your duties in line and your relationshiop in check.

 

Yup, it was inadvertant. That post is living proof of my most recent fortune cookie: the less you say, the more people hear.

 

And, I agree with you somewhat. I wouldn't call it "unfounded security", but "false security" because we can't see into the future and foolishly think that our love at the beginning of the marriage will keep all the bad things away.

 

Experience ALWAYS changes that niave way of thinking.

[Tomcat33]

Problem is people would rather spend the little energy they do have left over in a petty power struggle than in showing their estranged partner "hey you I haven't forgotten you, you still mean the world to me and I love you!"

[GreenEyedLady]

But many men don't consider that as something you've done for them. They consider it your "duty."

 

Just like you consider it their duty to give you simple inactivity...

 

The bottom line is don't take anything for granted and COMMUNICATE...

 

If you want some down time, ask for it...

[Tomcat33]

Where do you come up with this notion? When I get home, I don't need, nor do I want, a power struggle. I just want simple inactivity for awhile.

 

If you didn't understand what I meant just ask me.

 

When a couple falls into that slippery slope of, "well he/she isn't meeting my needs so why in the hell should I reach out to him/her, I'll just stick to my duties this is work enough" then that is when a person would rather use the little energy they do have left to build this power struggle rather than to burry the hatchet and reach out to and be the bigger person to put a best foot foward.

 

 

 

That doesn't mean I don't show my man I love him - by cooking that great meal after a full work day, for example. But many men don't consider that as something you've done for them. They consider it your "duty."

 

Did you ask your man if what he NEEDS is a cooked meal every day or is his need perhaps something else? If your partner considers your cooking a duty, then you have put yourself in a position to make it so. Some people will do with a few less home cooked meals and they may like a little more of something else. My point is, you may think you are meeting your partner's needs because you CHOOSE to do a daily duty that you THINK your partner appreciates but clearly they don't so maybe you are wasting your time cooking every day.

 

Your H might think bringing home his check every week is meeting your need for safety and stability, when was the last time you kissed him and thanked him for bringing home money? You see where am going with that?

[Tomcat33]

I said "many men" not "my man." But we were talking about general relationships, not just mine.

 

No actually YOU started with the me me me. I was talking in general you offered your situation:

 

When I get home, I don't need, nor do I want, a power struggle. I just want simple inactivity for awhile. Some down time. Some stopping of doing and thinking. That doesn't mean I don't show my man I love him - by cooking that great meal after a full work day, for example. But many men don't consider that as something you've done for them. They consider it your "duty."

[Tomcat33]

I said "many men" not "my man." But yes - he always asks "what's for dinner?" 'cause I'm a good cook. And I actually bring home a bigger paycheck, so I want that kiss and appreciation! Just kidding. We both appreciate each other. But we were talking about general relationships, not just mine. I used how I feel at the end of a tough day as an example of how many people probably feel at the end of a tough day. And I was talking about apathy resulting from sleep deprivation, not combativeness, so I was wondering where that came from.

 

 

PS if you do everything in your home including all the emotional giving and appreciating and you on top of it bring home all the money, why in the world do you even have that man as your H? Might as well be alone, no?

[Tomcat33]

That's my point, if a woman really believes she does EVERYTHING then why in the world be in a partnership with a man?

 

Or is that she her idea of how much she gives might be a little skewed?

 

This is where the OW tends to understand that married guy BETTER than what he gets at home. See how dangerous it is to have that kind of attitude?

[Tomcat33]

You certainly have a way of putting words into the mouths of posters on LS. I've noticed that often.

 

Please point out where I said I do everything and give all and he does and gives nothing? And also please point out where I said he brings home no money? Also please point out where I feel I do everything. Good gawd. If the things I've mentioned sound like all there is to running and maintaining a home, you must have a pretty sorry homelife.

 

 

Aaaaaannnd there we have the insult, "when I back myeslf into a corner my only escape is the petty insult." Again if you don't understand something, just ask.

 

Please point out where I said I do everything and give all and he does and gives nothing?

 

these are your comments in response to my post about how couples slip into neglect for one another:

 

I work a full time job and take care of a 13 year old boy. My work is an hour and a half round trip away from home. That leaves me very little but a stress filled mind at the end of the workday, at which time I have to make dinner, possibly do some shopping, check on homework, and try to fit in some down time.

 

When I get home, I don't need, nor do I want, a power struggle. I just want simple inactivity for awhile. Some down time. Some stopping of doing and thinking. That doesn't mean I don't show my man I love him - by cooking that great meal after a full work day, for example.

 

But yes - he always asks "what's for dinner?" 'cause I'm a good cook. And I actually bring home a bigger paycheck, so I want that kiss and appreciation! Just kidding. We both appreciate each other. But we were talking about general relationships, not just mine. I used how I feel at the end of a tough day as an example of how many people probably feel at the end of a tough day. And I was talking about apathy resulting from sleep deprivation, not combativeness, so I was wondering where that came from.

 

All I read was me me me me, the only thing you commented on your H is that he asks "what's for dinner"

 

Sorry if I got the impression you seem to imply you do everything and your H doesn't really exist other than to demand dinner.

Edited February 12, 2008 by Tomcat33

[silktricks]

Yes I understand that we do not live in a perfect world, or that we can't be "on" 100% of the time or that we can't sustain perfectly balanced and loving relationships 100% of the time. Life catches up with us and it eats away at our energy and will to give, I get it! What I don't get is how couples allow their rels/marriages to reach such crutial low pit of despair and then the inevitable happens and its a wakeup call for all and all that work that was being avoided all that time when the relationship went off the deep end, is now being replaced TWO FOLD by the amount of work, energy and dedication it takes to truly recover from an affair.

First, I would say that it's not "the inevitable". It's a choice that is made by one of the partners in the marriage. However, what you are saying is accurate. If one of the partners does have an affair because of the issues in the marriage it does then take at least twice as much work as it may have taken to avoid the problem. Usually, though, BOTH of the partners need to be willing to do the work before the slap in the face. And (obviously I'm broad-brushing this) it's very possible that the problems are such that both think they are already doing everything they possibly can do.

 

 

I don't understand how people in this day in age could let their relationships slip like that, I really don't. What's the point of being married if you are not going to work at it? It seems people sign the papers, come back from the honeymoon use up the wedding gifts a bit then look at each other and decide "let's have kids" then they throw themselves at anything BUT the marriage and "hope for the best" What is that?

Is that not selfishness?

You are making some huge assumptions here that are IMO not valid. The first is that the two people involved aren't working at it. Quite often they are. The problem is often not the lack of energy, not the lack of desire, but rather the presence of assumptions and past experiences that get in the way of the actual communication.

 

Communication is always the key in a relationship. But if, (using a really lousy example) I say to my husband "I love you" and in his past experience whenever he hears those words it means "I want something from you" he doesn't get the message that I am attempting to give. Alternatively, if he rubs my back, and my past experience is that a backrub proceeds getting slugged, I don't get the message he is attempting to give.

 

In other words, our past always gets in the way of our present. We each and everyone make assumptions about another person and that's true just as much of husbands and wives as it is of communication on an Internet board.

 

People don't "throw themselves at anything BUT the marriage and "hope for the best"". What they do is assume that if their partner is having a problem with what they are doing or saying that they will bring it up for discussion. They also assume (usually) that when they are tired their SO will understand, that when they are self-centered their SO will understand and unfortunately, when their feelings get hurt that their SO did it on purpose . It's unfortunate, but all too often true. That's why accurate communication is so beastly important (and also so often neglected)

 

I see people involved in affairs being called "selfish" all the time, and we are selfish yes I agree, but isn't throwing yourself into anything but your marriage not acting selfish as well? Isn't NOT putting your spouse first and making sure you do things for them on an on-going basis to ensure they know you still love them NOT selfish as well?

Absolutely. The problem is that nobody can be focused on any one thing exclusively all the time. I would not expect my husband to always put me first. It's not possible, nor is it healthy IMO. Do I want him to do things for me? Of course. Do I want to do things for him? Also, of course. It's just that you can't always put your SO first. Sometimes your job must take first place. Sometimes your kids must. Sometimes your health must. The key is to not let those things stay in first place. And real life makes that hard. I'm not trying to make excuses here, because the truth is that you are 100% correct - the important thing is the relationship.

Edited February 12, 2008 by silktricks

[silktricks]

oh never mind - whatever happens happens.

[Tomcat33]

That's my point, if a woman really believes she does EVERYTHING then why in the world be in a partnership with a man?

 

Or is that she her idea of how much she gives might be a little skewed?

 

That was a general comment it's a shame you took that personally, you should analize why you did.

 

 

Well, would you presume to speak for your other half? If so, maybe that's why you don't have one...?

 

I was speaking from my prespective, so - ummmm - I guess it would be from the perspective of "me." If you'd like, I'll see if he feels like responding to your post himself - but I seriously doubt it. And he doesn't "demand" anything. He's much nicer than that. Also why we're together. We fit. Still, I challenge you to find a post where I said he does nothing. Can't do it? Didn't think so.

 

 

Look I am not even going to touch your last posts in terms of tit-for-tat, it's just not worth it, but I will say this:

 

We were having a general discussion about how relationships deteriorate you piped in with all this me me me stuff, and yes you are right I don't have another half, by choice, but when I do and when I have and if I am having a discussion about how a relationship deteriorates I speak in WE terms not me me me terms. Why? because when you are in a relationship it is 50/50 just as you feel you do so much for a relationship, a partner more than likely does as well. When you can only speak in terms of all YOU do and why YOU need to be appreciated, in my books there is deffinitely something wrong with that picture.

 

 

The problem is that nobody can be focused on any one thing exclusively all the time. I would not expect my husband to always put me first. It's not possible, nor is it healthy IMO. Do I want him to do things for me? Of course. Do I want to do things for him? Also, of course. It's just that you can't always put your SO first. Sometimes your job must take first place. Sometimes your kids must. Sometimes your health must. The key is to not let those things stay in first place. And real life makes that hard. I'm not trying to make excuses here, because the truth is that you are 100% correct - the important thing is the relationship.

 

Agreed. But the KEY is to find a balance, a lot of people get so consummed in their own things they forget the balance and THAT is the problem. No one is asking for perfection just balance. A relationship that works as a team is not at risk of outside intrutions, plain and simple.

[silktricks]

Agreed. But the KEY is to find a balance, a lot of people get so consummed in their own things they forget the balance and THAT is the problem. No one is asking for perfection just balance. A relationship that works as a team is not at risk of outside intrutions, plain and simple.

 

I agree, and if you re-read what I wrote I'm sure you'll see that is what I was saying .

[nadiaj2727]

I think it probably helps even more if both people are remorseful and both people forgiving.

 

The problems that led to an affair are usually two sided. If only the misadventures of the cheater are laid on the table and ironed out, and the misadventures of the BS are not laid on the table and never ironed out, all the problems will not be resolved and the same situation will have a greater likelihood of arising again.

 

I agree with you. I would also add that for the cheating partner, they have resolve what it was within them that made them cheat when their needs weren't being met or when times got hard... or else they will do it again. (In addition to what you said about the relationship not meeting the needs of both partners anymore, creating the same situation all over again.)

[Tomcat33]

What I was TRYING to say, was that many people, both men and women, probably are so caught up in what they are doing (both, not just one - had to add that, obviously) that they BOTH forget about the other person. It's not intentional - it just happens. It's life.

 

I'm not twisting words around I am going on YOUR words. To be honest when I read your words before I thought you were going to say "I am a single mom", until you mentioned your H asks you "what's for dinner". That sounds different than what you previously wrote from the simple fact that now you are talking from a "we" prespective where as before it was:

 

I work a full time job and take care of a 13 year old boy. My work is an hour and a half round trip away from home. That leaves me very little but a stress filled mind at the end of the workday, at which time I have to make dinner, possibly do some shopping, check on homework, and try to fit in some down time.

Quote:

When I get home, I don't need, nor do I want, a power struggle. I just want simple inactivity for awhile. Some down time. Some stopping of doing and thinking. That doesn't mean I don't show my man I love him - by cooking that great meal after a full work day, for example.

Quote:

But yes - he always asks "what's for dinner?" 'cause I'm a good cook. And I actually bring home a bigger paycheck, so I want that kiss and appreciation! Just kidding.

 

At any rate saying "life gets in the way" to excuse neglecting your duties as W/H, partner, friend and lover is just that, an excuse. It's that mentality that people keep excusing each day a little more and before you know it you have lost complete touch with your partner. If someone is comfortable with life getting in the way to put a wedge between you and your part, I don't see why people are so angry when other people get in the way of their rel? It's just life, if you don't want your partner someone else will.

 

I am not trying to be cheeky but honestly of people really did think that way there would be less "neglect" because the bottom line is we become too complacent when we are too sure of things.

Edited February 13, 2008 by Tomcat33

[silktricks]

At any rate saying "life gets in the way" to excuse neglecting your duties as W/H, partner, friend and lover is just that, an excuse. It's that mentality that people keep excusing each day a little more and before you know it you have lost complete touch with your partner.

Pointing out the reality of life is not the same as making an excuse. Reality is reality. It is both impossible and unhealthy to always have your partner in the forefront of your thoughts and actions.

 

If someone is comfortable with life getting in the way to put a wedge between you and your part, I don't see why people are so angry when other people get in the way of their rel? It's just life, if you don't want your partner someone else will.

I think that the thing here is that couples generally feel that they are both putting their energies toward the same thing. That even though for a period of time they are focusing on the kids or the job or the house or whatever, that they are still working in tandem together. Though their focus may not at that moment be directly on their partner that they are still working for their partner's benefit as well as their own. So they aren't thinking that their focus being off of their partner is putting in a wedge. They see it as a necessity.

 

That is obviously not the same as taking a lover on the side.

 

 

I am not trying to be cheeky but honestly of people really did think that way there would be less "neglect" because the bottom line is we become too complacent when we are too sure of things.

I'm not sure that complacency is the problem. I do hear what you're saying, and don't completely disagree, but I think you are off the mark somewhat. I don't think either partner in a marriage should neglect their partner, but I also don't think it's healthy for a person to not be "sure of things". I think that's part of what a marriage should be. It should hold assurance that the other person will be there - at your back - through thick and thin.

[silktricks]

And I wanted to add....

 

BUT - I really agree with the crux of what I believe you are saying, TC. If you don't treat your partner well, if you act as if they are just "yours", never put any energy into how they feel and only focus on all of the side issues of life, you are NOT being a partner and it should be no surprise if they find someone who WILL treat them well.

[Tomcat33]

I don't think either partner in a marriage should neglect their partner, but I also don't think it's healthy for a person to not be "sure of things". I think that's part of what a marriage should be. It should hold assurance that the other person will be there - at your back - through thick and thin.

 

How are you assuring your partner you are there for them if you are consummed with other tasks that pull you away, and furthermore how do you know your partner is sure you are there for them when you are showing them otherwise?

 

Lastly, where did being a 100% sure of your marriage get you?

 

That 1% goes a long way ST, now that you know there is that 1% chance that it someone else can come between your marriage things are different. Sure your rel is tainted in terms of having those intact hopes of "we can make it through thick and thin", and it is not based on these ideals that our love will carry us through anything, but you so what? now your expectations are at least realistic, and from there you can only go UP.

[Tomcat33]

And I wanted to add....

 

BUT - I really agree with the crux of what I believe you are saying, TC. If you don't treat your partner well, if you act as if they are just "yours", never put any energy into how they feel and only focus on all of the side issues of life, you are NOT being a partner and it should be no surprise if they find someone who WILL treat them well.

 

 

That's aaaaaaaall I am saying.

 

We are not super heroes nor are we filled with magical powers, we try to cope with life the best way we manage how, but some things are just common sense and I truly believe complacency is a huge factor. It is human nature to become complacent when we are sure of things.

[silktricks]

How are you assuring your partner you are there for them if you are consummed with other tasks that pull you away, and furthermore how do you know your partner is sure you are there for them when you are showing them otherwise?

 

Lastly, where did being a 100% sure of your marriage get you?

 

That 1% goes a long way ST, now that you know there is that 1% chance that it someone else can come between your marriage things are different. Sure your rel is tainted in terms of having those intact hopes of "we can make it through thick and thin", and it is not based on these ideals that our love will carry us through anything, but you so what? now your expectations are at least realistic, and from there you can only go UP.

Actually, in my life, I am NOW 100% sure. I wasn't before - as I believe I've said on more than one occasion. So the points you are attempting to make here do not apply for me personally.