Affairs, swinging, in love, out of love...

[MarriedLife]

Sorry for the looooong post but I had to get it all out...

 

 

Ok here is my story...

 

I married at age 23 to W who was 18. We’ve been married for 15 years and we have kids. We own our home, have decent jobs and like most people we have our usual everyday issues (bills, kids, etc.)

 

Back in 1996 I met a woman online, we chatted for a bit then we met IRL. It was my first affair but not my last. In 1998 I went on a business trip and again had an affair with a woman I met online. In 2001 I get an IM from a woman who apparently read my profile I posted on yahoo and we began chatting. She was an older woman, married, two college-aged kids and a husband who worked on Wall Street. Our meeting was very passionate, intense, and HOT especially because we both come from very different backgrounds. I felt very comfortable with this “arrangement” because we were both married and I felt it made our infidelity safer because we shared the same risks. Because of our distances we only met once yet I became HOOKED. I became very interested in the bored housewife who was looking for a little spice on the side. It was the naughtiness of it all, the taboo aspects of the relationship. It was exciting. I realized I wasn’t into single women. I wanted a married woman who felt the same way I did; Someone who wanted a fun no-strings relationship filled with nooners, quickies and the discreet like. I began posting (pre Ashley Madison days) and I ended up meeting another married woman for coffee. We both seemed to like each other and understood what we were both looking for. She even mentioned that her home could be used for our little tryst. However family and distances became our obstacles. She was a real deal soccer mom and very busy so we could never really get things going. Well I continued to seek that kind of feisty independent married woman mindset and ended up meeting suburban swingers. Responsible married couples, good jobs, nice homes, etc where the husband was basically turned on by watching his wife with me. To me this was the next best thing to a married woman going at it alone so I was very comfortable with this kind of arrangement where I could meet the wife and we’d have our fun until the next encounter. I was very forthcoming with these couples and I didn’t hide the fact that I was married. As ironic as it sounds being open and honest was important to me so I would always disclose my marital situation. Other than the occasional detour to meet up with married women, things on the home front where all fairly normal. I was paying bills, spending real quality time with the family, vacations, etc, and I had no desire to leave my W or change my situation but I was fascinated with the mindset of married women who stray and those who are open in their thinking with regards to sex.

 

Well this past summer I met up with a couple who on the surface seemed like your average family. The husband was running a good business, they appeared to be your average well to do couple. The wife (the MW) and I did our thing while the husband watched. We all agreed we would continue our arrangement and I had subsequent meetings with the wife with and without her husband present. I told my W about the husband under the guise that it was a “business relationship”. She had no clue they were swingers. Well as time went on, the husband began getting jealous. His true nature surfaced and he became abusive to her. One thing led to another and after subsequent physical and verbal episodes she filed for divorce. Meanwhile she and I were meeting at every available opportunity and we kept in constant communication. Well something prompted my W to dig into my work email. She found correspondence between me and a single woman whom I’ve never met in person but whom I started a casual relationship via work. Well my W drilled me for more information on this “OW” and I explained that the relationship with this girl was nothing more than an online friendship and I wasn’t planning to do anything with her. Besides, this single girl didn’t fit into my fantasy. She wasn’t married. She wasn’t my “type”. Little did my W know that her snooping was just the tip of the scheming deceitful iceberg. Satisfied that the relationship I had with this single woman had fizzled, things went back to normal until my W heard a voice mail message from the MW. MW didn’t mention my name in the message so I was able to duck the proverbial bullet. Then came a second cryptic voice mail message. Again I thought quick and explained that the voice was that of the single girl! My W was obviously livid. I ended up calling the single girl while my W was at my side and I apologized to the single girl for leading her on. I told the single girl I wished her well but I will no longer be contacting her and I expected the same from her. Single girl apologized to my W. I also apologized to my W. Again my W was satisfied and I felt I once again dogged the bullet by tossing out this red-herring while throwing the single girl under the bus. Later that week I called the single girl and apologized. She understood, since she was well aware that I was having an affair. I never talked to the single girl again and have no plans to. However at this point my W’s radar was waaaaaay up and she began playing detective, checking my work emails, my laptop, my yahoo searches, she was beginning to pull pieces together and I knew the sh%$ would soon hit the fan.

 

Well it happened when my W hacked into my yahoo email account. (the new version of yahoo allows the yahoo id to be available in the login dropdown) There she found all of the emails between me and the MW. I tried to spin and deny but knew I had to come clean. I ended up telling my W EVERYTHING. Starting from 1996 and on. I explained how I felt, why I thought I did what I did, my interest in married women who were naughty and discreet and how I have the same mindset but didn’t understand WHY. Well I promised to her that I would break it off with the MW, delete my email account, and remove my profiles from swinger sites. I also gave my W my cell phone and gave her the password to my work voice mail. I wanted to be open and honest going forward. The angry H of the MW called my W in an attempt to derail me but my W already knew everything. W and I opened communication and we even went to marriage counseling which was disappointing because the counselor simply fed on our ideas but never offered any real ideas of his own.. The MC even entertained the idea that we were young when we married and perhaps this had something to do with our current situation. My W always feared the therapist would come to the “married young” conclusion and thus my get-out-of-jail free card. We stopped seeing the MC and we decided we would continue to communicate and be our own therapist. Through our summer talks my W dropped a bombshell. She confided in me that 7 years ago she two affairs! One that lasted about a year with the H of a family friend and a one time romp with a co-worker! She told me she did it because she was reaching 30, wanted to know she still had it, and was also feeling unloved. I believe maturity played a big role and the fact the H was a smooth talker. As for the 2nd A it was just easier because she was already down that road. I always suspected my W had something going on with the H because of the flirty nonsense I witnessed 7 years ago however once I got passed the initial shock I felt relieved because in my mind it erased what I had done previously and I believed W and I were on equal playing ground.

 

When my W told me of her infidelities, I wasn’t upset. I was actually a bit turned on. In my mind she became the personality type I was attracted to. My W on the other hand just wanted all of this mess behind us and wanted to start fresh and new. It felt good to tell all and I felt she and I were really starting to build from a place of honesty but I kept finding myself being pulled to the OW. I had feelings for the OW. OW and I have used the L word to each other many times. I did learn that during our heated encounters OW was involved with another man. Even though I had countless number of saved v.m. messages of OW in tears proclaiming her love for me I wasn’t the only one. OW and I started to part ways. During the first NC I became depressed. I wanted my feelings for OW to leave and I wanted my feelings for W to come back however I couldn’t stop thinking of OW. OW ended up calling my work in tears and telling how much she missed me. I tried the unthinkable. I wanted to normalize things so I arranged for my W and OW to have lunch together. I wanted the hurt to stop and I wanted the healing to begin. The two met for lunch. I stayed home. During lunch W dissected OW. OW dissected W. After lunch they went shopping for school clothes. Two mothers doing motherly things. OW became comfortable with W. W no longer felt as threatened and both of them used the opportunity to says things about me that were untrue in hopes of severing my relationship with the other. When W returned home she said things about OW that were untrue. When I spoke with OW about the lunch date with W the OW said things about my W that were untrue. I was caught in the middle and deservedly so. It was a mess but I DID keep NC soon after the lunch and after more talks with my W however once again the OW called me. And we were on and off again. I liked when OW called me after days of NC. I needed to hear these things. I didn’t want to be vulnerable any longer and her words helped me get my feelings back. The longer I kept NC the easier it became for me. When we did talk, OW would through the other guy under the bus, tell me he’s old, divorced, she doesn’t want him, she wants me. She wants a commitment with me. Her frustration was growing. After about a week of NC I did miss her and we did meet again but slowly I was beginning to finally fall out of love with OW and she was starting to realize that I wasn’t leaving my W and this realization made OW want me more. I understood the psychology behind the “you want what you can’t have” strategy. I now held the emotional strings. It felt good.

 

I began to become apathetic to my W feelings. Really understanding her hurt. I didn’t want W, OW or myself hurt. The longest OW and AI have gone NC was 3 weeks. It’s been 2 months since we’ve seen each other. Some days are better than others. I’m getting there. I haven’t ruled out complete NC but I definitely don’t have those strong feelings for OW anymore. I did agree to have lunch with her soon. If my W finds out that communication between OW and I have started up again she will be devastated. I’m trying to fall back in love with my W. I know NC with anyone is the only way. Hopefully I’ll get there.

 

So what’s my point in this tale? Well after all I’ve been through, I’m still not convinced that on-the-sides, no-string relationships can’t work. Provided feelings don’t get in the way. Perhaps I’ve conditioned myself into believing that monogamy is a falsehood. My wife had her fling and I survived. She realized her mistake and didn’t want to lose me. Maybe I’m fooling myself into believing that some can indeed have their cake and eat it too but I also realize that it’s VERY easy for emotions and feelings to get in the way. I continue to ask WHY I have this side of me? This wandering eye for exploration? Then there is the question of DO I REALLY LOVE MY WIFE? If so then why do I do these things? I get that I have to be mature enough to stay committed but I want to FEEL that I WANT to stay committed because of LOVE and not because of religious or societal conventions.

 

WHEW! Thanks for listening!

[LucreziaBorgia]

Where do your kids factor in all this? I'm not sure how you find quality time with your kids in the midst of all this intrigue. How old are they? My brother and I were fairly young when we figured out that our parents were full blown philanderers. Living your life is your prerogative, but what do you do to protect your children from it?

[Mustang Sally]

Good question, LB.

I'm also wondering how you worked all these "tryst-meetings" around work and family time.

It does boggle the mind...

 

At least you are (appear to be) honest about your motivations, etc.

 

Not quite sure how you are going to work it out in the future with your wife, or where you want it to go from here, but I'm guessing...more of the same?

[Chrome Barracuda]

This the most disgusting example of human nature I have ever laid my eyes on here.

 

Has this guy ever been checked for an sTD? has his wife???

 

 

If manogomy is a falsehood why dont you just get divorced???

 

Why be married and live a lie. If you want to act single, be single! Have more respect for the real married couples with real marriages!

 

Secondly have more respect for yourself.

 

Your a joke if you think the OW would ever have a real relationship with you. If she's cheating on her man, with you and actively seeing another man right under your nose. You think she's gonna remain with you?

 

You are such a disgusting man- ho!!!!

 

lol. Man-whore!

 

God I might be suspended for my post but I'm keeping it real!

[MarriedLife]

Kids are old enough to understand. I love having a family, being there for the kids. I haven't missed any of my kid's events, I'm always there for them.

 

Many of the "meetings" occured during "lunch" or during "happy hour" late nights.

 

Sure many will label this as gross, disgusting, weird etc... I get it. But believe me MANY MANY MANY couples from all walks of life are swinging. It's just a fact of life. Some people view sex differently than others. But that's a different topic.

 

re: STD's -- I ALWAYS wore protection during the swinging stuff. Didn't wear protection with MW. After all was revealed we ALL GOT TESTED and I had W read MW's tests results. We are all CLEAN.

[Chrome Barracuda]

Kids are old enough to understand. I love having a family, being there for the kids. I haven't missed any of my kid's events, I'm always there for them.

 

Many of the "meetings" occured during "lunch" or during "happy hour" late nights.

 

Sure many will label this as gross, disgusting, weird etc... I get it. But believe me MANY MANY MANY couples from all walks of life are swinging. It's just a fact of life. Some people view sex differently than others. But that's a different topic.

 

re: STD's -- I ALWAYS wore protection during the swinging stuff. Didn't wear protection with MW. After all was revealed we ALL GOT TESTED and I had W read MW's tests results. We are all CLEAN.

 

Nice to know you didnt catch anything dangerous.

 

So what are you doing now?

 

Have you asked your wife for an open marriage or swinging, because without her rightful consent cheating is still cheating.

 

Why be married if you want to have sex with other people,

 

cake eater are you?

[norajane]

Kids are old enough to understand.

 

Understand? Your kids are under 15, and you yourself don't understand what you're doing or why. How and what exactly are your kids supposed to understand?

[Blue Eyed Brain]

Wow. Op - you can make that a Lifetime Movie! No kidding....

 

All I can say is how did you not get caught until recently? You had way too many extra circular activities to "play it safe." Maybe you wanted to get caught?

 

Best of luck to you in ironing this all out.

[Mr. Lucky]

I get that I have to be mature enough to stay committed but I want to FEEL that I WANT to stay committed because of LOVE and not because of religious or societal conventions.

I think you first have to define what "love" means to you, as it's obviously different than the monogamous, one-partner lifestyle that is the norm. Conventional marriage may not work for you and/or your wife. But both of you deserve the ability to make informed decisions in light of the other persons activities, sexual or otherwise. If you want or need to continue what you're doing, you need to be honest with your W. And given her history, the same goes for her. You may find that your needs are more closely aligned than you think...

 

Mr. Lucky

[LadyDi]

I'm tired from just reading all you do! How do you manage? How do you concentrate on regular day to day stuff? I couldn't manage one side fling w/out getting off track.

[MarriedLife]

So what are you doing now?

 

Have you asked your wife for an open marriage or swinging, because without her rightful consent cheating is still cheating.

 

Why be married if you want to have sex with other people,

 

cake eater are you?

 

I'm not seeing OW. Not seeing anyone. But I don't think I'd pass up the opp to have a fling with a married woman. I don't want to divorce because W and I get along and I don't want to hurt my kids. Not a cake eater. Not even a "man-whore" I've had other opp to be with single women but I'm not interested. I'm not looking to sleep around. If I found one MW I'd be good. I know I have that open marriage mindset and during our summer talks I did ask my wife about an open marriage. She does NOT want an open marriage and does not want to swing. I respect her decision and I'm trying to break out of this open love mindset.

[MarriedLife]

How and what exactly are your kids supposed to understand?

 

I didn't mean they would understand why I did what I did. They are older than 10 and would know what was going on. I never wanted this to get out of hand. I was only looking for that MW who's seeking what I was seeking. A no-strings. Emotions came into play which put everything at risk. I get the mistake I made but instead of saying no to another encounter I'm thinking how to do it safer next time.

[MarriedLife]

Wow. Op - you can make that a Lifetime Movie! No kidding....

 

All I can say is how did you not get caught until recently? You had way too many extra circular activities to "play it safe." Maybe you wanted to get caught?

 

Best of luck to you in ironing this all out.

 

Well I only met 4 couples. Most of the time the meetings occured during lunch, happy hour nights or I took the day off. Prior to this it was 1 married woman and we met during a loong lunch break. I did want this all to get out. I wanted to be honest with W. So far we are still together. Talking is good. I want to fall back in love wit W again. maybe my oepn marriage feelings will go away

[Blue Eyed Brain]

I asked my husband for an open marriage or separation but he said no.

 

I am proceeding with a divorce.

[blind_otter]

I think you should pursue individual counseling to address your obsession with married women and flings.

 

I also think that you should divorce your W if you feel that monogamy is a falsehood - hell it might be...to YOU. I've personally witnessed many couples who were perfectly fine with monogamy and completely satisfied with one partner for the rest of their lives.

[Chrome Barracuda]

I'm not seeing OW. Not seeing anyone. But I don't think I'd pass up the opp to have a fling with a married woman. I don't want to divorce because W and I get along and I don't want to hurt my kids. Not a cake eater. Not even a "man-whore" I've had other opp to be with single women but I'm not interested. I'm not looking to sleep around. If I found one MW I'd be good. I know I have that open marriage mindset and during our summer talks I did ask my wife about an open marriage. She does NOT want an open marriage and does not want to swing. I respect her decision and I'm trying to break out of this open love mindset.

 

Wow clearly the problem is with YOU!

 

Your wife rejected the open marriage idea and I think she wants to save the marriage! but you still want to cheat and even now you just dont get it! you havent learned anything!!!

 

You havent learned nothing from all you could have put your family through. How can you look yourself in the mirror everyday and know this is what my life boils down to?

 

What kind of man does this? WTF?

 

And you know what all these other married women dont have respect for themselves or their bodies, this aint no game? Why are you acting like this is?

 

And you know what I truly I understand why you have sex with MW who are willing because the sex is NSA and it feels like your taking something from the other man that was taken from you, so Psychologicially it might just be one big game to you. Or you could just want sex on the side and not worry about her telling your wife. But apparently you havent seen fatal attraction.

 

You need professional counciling. The way I see it you might not get the choice to remain married if you keep going down the road your on.

[MarriedLife]

I asked my husband for an open marriage or separation but he said no.

 

I am proceeding with a divorce.

 

Do you have kids? If I didn't have kids I'm sure divorce papers would have been filed by now. Even still I was hoping that we could at least explore the open marriage scenario. And I'm not looking to sleep with everyone and anyone. I just think for some people "alternative lifestyles" can be healthy. Clearly the path I'm taking is NOT healthy.

[MarriedLife]

You havent learned nothing from all you could have put your family through. What kind of man does this? WTF?

 

And you know what all these other married women dont have respect for themselves or their bodies, this aint no game? Why are you acting like this is?

 

And you know what I truly I understand why you have sex with MW who are willing because the sex is NSA and it feels like your taking something from the other man that was taken from you, so Psychologicially it might just be one big game to you.

 

The kids are doing good in school. Their active in their sporting activities and they have friends. I don't think there have been any real disruptions because of what I've been up to. They don't know anything that went on and I plan to keep it that way.

 

W and I had a discussion last night about what I learned from all this. I've learned how easy it is for emotions to get involved when certain words are used or feelings are conveyed. I didn't want the relationship with the OW to explode like it did. I've learned to identify boundries when communicating with the opposite sex so lines are not crossed. (understand when conversation can get too personal and when to draw back so as not to lead anyone into believing that there is something more)

 

These other married women certainly had respect for themselves. We were all adults. Some of them were very happy in their marriages. (or seemd to be) They just wanted to explore something more. In my posts I was always looking for HAPPILY married women. I didn't want to breakup someones marriage.

 

You're correct in your assertions that this might be a game for me. Part of me wanted to experience the “wink wink” between myself and the MW. Maybe something inside me felt I had a piece of the H's lifestyle when I slept with his wife. I realized psychologically some of these things might be going on in my head.

[MarriedLife]

I think you should pursue individual counseling to address your obsession with married women and flings.

 

This is definately feeling like an obsession for flings with married women.

 

All I wanted was for the OW to STAY MARRIED! The two of us would stay married, raise our kids, and have our little discreet on-the-side. If that's all I had I think I would have been content. I wasn't trying to be a player by any means.

 

I don't think counseling would work for me because I tend to overthink and overanalyze and debate the merits of open relationships. I think the therapist would see this disagreement and simply conclude that divorce is the only answer. I guess I'm looking for insight.

[blind_otter]

 

I don't think counseling would work for me because I tend to overthink and overanalyze and debate the merits of open relationships. I think the therapist would see this disagreement and simply conclude that divorce is the only answer. I guess I'm looking for insight.

 

I think you're putting words in your fictitious therapist's mouth. A therapist worth his salt wouldn't judge or tell you what to do. They would provide you with materials to study and guide you on your path to insight -- IME (I've had several therapists) a therapist is a tool. You do 90% of the work. They do 10% of the work.

 

I'm just saying. Don't make assumptions about things you have no experience with.

[Blue Eyed Brain]

Do you have kids? If I didn't have kids I'm sure divorce papers would have been filed by now. Even still I was hoping that we could at least explore the open marriage scenario. And I'm not looking to sleep with everyone and anyone. I just think for some people "alternative lifestyles" can be healthy. Clearly the path I'm taking is NOT healthy.

 

Yes, I have one child and have done everything I can to improve my marriage. H has border personality disorders and I can't live with it anymore. I believe my child will be happier in two content lifestyles rather than one miserable one....

[MarriedLife]

I'm just saying. Don't make assumptions about things you have no experience with.

 

I did mention in my post that we did go to a MC. We both didn't get anything out of it. No insight. however I'm not ruling out finding a better therapist.

[MarriedLife]

I believe my child will be happier in two content lifestyles rather than one miserable one....

 

What's the Dr. Phil saying "a child would rather come from a broken home than be in one."

 

Makes sense. Our home isn't broken. The way W has handled the news was a little disruptive. More anger than talk. But it got better. I just see things differently. Or maybe I just need to come back to the center.

 

Sounds like you see things differently too. Curious how your talks with your H went. Discusing this with someone that has BPD however takes on a life of its own.

[Blue Eyed Brain]

What's the Dr. Phil saying "a child would rather come from a broken home than be in one."

 

Curious how your talks with your H went. Discussing this with someone that has BPD however takes on a life of its own.

 

Oh, yes. It is not easy talking to H. We try but we are so far removed.

 

A year ago, I told H that I was unhappy with the status of our marriage. The lack of affection, caring and attention. I told him that I was looking for more than what was happening. More from him. He told me I was crazy and that I should be happy. He paid no attention to what I was saying.

 

A month later, we got into an argument whilst on a weekend trip and in front of my son, he threatened to kill me. That changed everything for me.

 

I started once a month discussions with him to make sure he wasn't going to go through with his threats and keep his temper at bay. But, also telling him that the relationship was in trouble. Still no help.

 

For 7 years I asked him MC and for 5 years asked him to set aside one night a week for Date Night. Nothing. One year ago, I asked him for a separation or an open marriage (if he was unwilling to work it out then let me have my freedom). No Way says he. So, I started going to counseling and realized that I have been in fear of his reactions for years. Once I decided I wasn't going to be afraid of his anger, I decided to tell him I wanted out of the marriage completely.

 

Well, now he's acting like he wants to work it out and even started to go to MC (2nd visit tonight). What a joke. He manipulated his story to the MC where I could barely stay in the room. The MC just listened and it disgusted me. Tonight, I told H that things will be different with MC and that I need to vent, too. I have a list of items I want to go over. It won't be pretty, but my child's happiness and mine are more important than "keeping the peace."

[MarriedLife]

Well, now he's acting like he wants to work it out and even started to go to MC (2nd visit tonight). What a joke. He manipulated his story to the MC where I could barely stay in the room. The MC just listened and it disgusted me. Tonight, I told H that things will be different with MC and that I need to vent, too. I have a list of items I want to go over. It won't be pretty, but my child's happiness and mine are more important than "keeping the peace."

 

I'm curious since you're set with going forward with divorce why the need for further MC? Do you think you can change your mind if he changes? Is is over for you? Do you want your freedom?