Tell me when I'm going to stop caring

[havoc]

HI Sally,

 

I just read this article not that long ago, and I couldn't help but think of it when I read your comments on the "smell": http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20071228-000001.xml

 

Don't know how valid their hypotheses are, but it's an interesting article nonetheless.

 

Good luck.

[twice_shy]

I completely and totally disagree. I don't disagree with your advice about divorce because you may be right that she should leave him.

 

But it is not at all unnatural or uncommon to think negative or nasty thoughts about someone you love from time to time.

 

I agree, but this isn't just time to time. this is how she feels about him in general.

[twice_shy]

I can see your point.

I would also say that at times during our marriage, he has not been fair to me. Should he have run from the marriage to divorce instead of sticking it out and us working on it (the marriage) and ourselves as we have in the past?

 

has he not been fair to you in the sense that he seems to despise you? There is a difference in what is not fair that would justify a divorce.

 

 

For all I know, there have been times when he has felt disgusted with and unattracted to me, as well.

 

But by what you said that isn't the case. And he clearly isn't disgusted by you as evidenced by what you have posted.

 

 

In fact, there probably were such times. I know he has certainly admitted to me a stretch of about 3 or 4 years when he didn't give a damn about whether sex was good for me, or if he/it gave me any pleasure. He has admitted that he was solely out for himself during that stretch. But then he decided to change his mindset and approach. He (tells me) he doesn't feel that way now.

 

Well any man that doesn't care if their partner is enjoying sex needs a good attitude adjustment. Looks like he did and he corrected said behavior.

 

 

Does a wife (or a husband, for that matter) never have a right to not desire sex from their spouse? Must I always feel up to it and ready to drop and go at a moment's notice?

 

absolutely not. you don't have to desire sex all the time. but there is a big difference between that and despising someone where you never want it, or at least with him anyway, as in your case.

 

I see your point.

However, he is quite happy, at the moment. In fact, I'm certain of it.

 

Of coure he is, because he doesn't know how you truly feel about him and what you are thinking, especially with regards to wondering it the grass is greener on the other side.

 

 

I'm not saying that that means I'm not living a lie, but he is not really hurting at this point. If I can deal with myself, then really - is it so much better to rock the boat and do what I KNOW will hurt him?

 

No, because with that line of thinking, nothing will EVER get better and you will end up testing the waters to see if that other grass is greener.

 

If you don't communicate with him it isn't going to get better.

 

But honestly, will it ever get better? Are you ever going to see him in a good light again and fall in love with him and become attracted to him again? I ask this because of the things you have said about him.

 

(I have to credit this approach to a friend of mine who has used this line of reasoning in their marriage. I used to argue against it, but now, I can sort of see where it comes from.)

 

And is she truly happy? Even if she says she is, I doubt she is truly happy by casting her own feelings aside for the simple sake of not "rocking the boat".

 

 

I know also that this is a very taboo subject what I'm admitting to. It's just not acceptable for a woman to ever feel this way about her husband.

 

Its not acceptable to feel this way about anyone someone claims to love, or do you love him?

 

I'm not saying that people can't get good and plain old pissed off at one another from time to time and say things in the heat of battle that hurt or even think certain thoughts of disgust for their SO's. But this is not what you are doing. This is an ongoing attitude you have towards him.

 

So the question is, is this attitude going to change? Or are you just gonna say its your "cross to bear" and bottle everything up, never communicate with him about it and let it eat you up until you DO finally cheat?

 

You need to communicate with your husband and lose the "i don't want to rock the boat" idea. Either that or divorce. Yes, he seems happy now, but unless he is really dumb, he will catch on sooner or later. Unless you are a very good actor. Either way, it isn't fair for him to be in a marriage with someone that has this kind of attitude towards him, whether he is aware of it or not.

[a4a]

Do you really think so Mustang? Is this what mid-life crisis is, when it dawns on us that we have been naive and full of illusions? Is MLC just the last act of flailing and raging against dull reality?

 

"Do not go gentle into that good night.

Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

 

It does feel like a kind of death. I'm sorry I'm a downer today. Hope it isn't making things worse.

 

My H has told me from the beginning that romantic longing for someone who will fulfill our deepest desires is a misunderstanding of ourselves and human nature. That feeling of having an unfillable hole inside us is because we try to fill ourselves up with romantic passion when we are really hungry for God (Christ specifically to him, but he would call it God to me).

 

I accepted that sometime after he told it to me; I started believing in God and at the same time, believing that there was no man out there who would turn on every light I have; that this was just phantasm, and that to look for it on this earth is futile and misled. Such a man did not exist because my hunger was really for something else.

I married him. I didn't question the lack of sexual attraction because I thought I was asking for something that didn't exist, to have that deepest part of me touched? It wasn't possible. I figured, well, the sexual piece is what is missing for me; every relationship is missing something, and this one has so much good.

 

But now, I don't know...I don't know about this God stuff...I don't know about sacrificing carnal passion for goodness, I don't know about any of it...

 

Sorry, this is really a jack.

 

 

You settled for less. (not trying to be mean)

 

and the whole empty hole thing..... I think God would want you to not have an empty hole (no sex pun) that went unfulfilled so it could be filled with him.

 

Romance/ sex = evil/carnal so replace with god?

 

I don't buy it. H sounds like he would be a great brainwasher in a cult, and I am not saying that in a disrespectful tone. But these statements are loaded with guilt, manipulation, and does not benefit/help you as a person.

 

I guess if I had a god then my M would be great and my needs that were left unfulfilled wouldn't matter either? - ok, yeah, whatever. Perhaps if I took up golf I wouldn't want attention from my H either.

 

MS: if what you are missing in your M is a deal breaker for you.... than it is a deal breaker, you cannot compare it to the needs of others. Your needs are your needs. You have to choose to accept things as they are or move on.

The process is hellish. The guilt makes it very very hard to do.

[twice_shy]

I applaud MS's commitment to stay in her marriage, if anything I hope more people would have as much commitment as she has shown towards her family and marriage.

 

Thats all fine and good. I applaud people who stay in their marriages IF they WORK on the marriage.

 

So far, by her own admission, she is only staying in it because she doesn't want to "rock the boat".

[a4a]

Thats all fine and good. I applaud people who stay in their marriages IF they WORK on the marriage.

 

So far, by her own admission, she is only staying in it because she doesn't want to "rock the boat".

 

I wouldn't say rock the boat - I would say guilt and fear.

[Mustang Sally]

Thats all fine and good. I applaud people who stay in their marriages IF they WORK on the marriage.

I take exception to the fact that you imply that I have not and am not working on my marriage.

 

So far, by her own admission, she is only staying in it because she doesn't want to "rock the boat".

 

I wouldn't say rock the boat - I would say guilt and fear.

Both of you are right, to a degree. I admit I have feelings of all three things you have cited, above.

 

But there are other factors. I think I have brought these up repeatedly, if not in this thread, then in my other threads on this marriage.

He is my friend.

A very wonderful friend. Closer than any other person in my life. And I have love for him. I don't know if it is enough of the right kind of love a wife should have...again...at times I am sick of and irritated by him. At other times, I don't think I could go it without him.

Additionally, I made a promise. A vow. I could not dissolve that without very careful consideration of all other options.

 

Is that love? Or dependence? Or some acceptable-within-the-constraints-of-long-term-monogamy combination of both?

[Mustang Sally]

HI Sally,

 

I just read this article not that long ago, and I couldn't help but think of it when I read your comments on the "smell": http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20071228-000001.xml

 

Don't know how valid their hypotheses are, but it's an interesting article nonetheless.

 

Good luck.

Wow, havoc.

I'm speechless right now.

That article really hit home.

 

I'm not going to assume that it completely explains my situation...I have a deep respect for biological science - I'm in that field, myself. But it seems too easy to use as an excuse for everything. And I have four very healthy, wonderful children from this coupling.

 

Still....it rings very true for me. I met H while on OCPs (oral contraception), and I didn't really start noticing the smell thing until the last 4 or so years, when I've been off the pill.

 

Interesting, no?

[Mustang Sally]

And is she truly happy? Even if she says she is, I doubt she is truly happy by casting her own feelings aside for the simple sake of not "rocking the boat".

Good question.

It's really not fair for me to speak on someone else's behalf in this way, but I can at least give you my impression.

 

I think this person has decided that this is a compromise they can live with, for the time being, and quite possibly long term.

 

And I think that this is an ok way to approach it. There are many, many compromises that we all make, day after day. Marriage is difficult. Compromise has to be a part of it for it to work.

 

At what point does compromise cross the line into "settling" (which may breed resentment)? I don't know that there is a one-size-fits-all answer to that. I think it differs for different people in the same (or different) situation(s). In other words, we all have to decide that for ourselves (albeit, sometimes with help ).

 

That is what I'm trying to do here.

[Mustang Sally]

MS: if what you are missing in your M is a deal breaker for you.... than it is a deal breaker, you cannot compare it to the needs of others. Your needs are your needs. You have to choose to accept things as they are or move on.

The process is hellish. The guilt makes it very very hard to do.

You are right.

I don't know why it's so hard for me to decide.

Should be simple, no?

Dealbreaker...or NO dealbreaker.

(Hmmm, maybe Howie Mandel could make a new gameshow based on this premise?)

 

But I'm muddying the waters too much, I suppose?

[StartingOver07]

I have been reading for a while and one thing that strikes me is that marriage vows are "for better or for worse." It sounds a lot as though there is some "for worse" happening here. But it also sounds as though many people feel that those vows are just something to say, and that if things truly do turn out "for worse," then that means it's time to move on.

 

It may be. Or it may not be.

 

I give MS a lot of credit for taking her time and really thinking this through. Marriage is not meant to be disposable and I think MS demonstrates a lot of character in her posts here.

[Storyrider]

HI Sally,

 

I just read this article not that long ago, and I couldn't help but think of it when I read your comments on the "smell": http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20071228-000001.xml

 

Don't know how valid their hypotheses are, but it's an interesting article nonetheless.

 

Good luck.

 

Wow. I'm having the same reaction Sally did. That is an amazing article. It seems as though the findings would be very subject to interpretation, but still, food for thought.

[twice_shy]

I take exception to the fact that you imply that I have not and am not working on my marriage.

 

You have already stated that you simply aren't bringing anything up to him because, unknown to him, he thinks things are fine when they most certainly are not.

 

So if you are not communicating with him, then exactly what ARE you doing to work on the marriage besides simply staying in it and not talking to him about things?

[Mustang Sally]

You know what?

I've put all of that out there before (what I have done to work on marriage). I would refer you to my past thread (How do you know when the fat lady is singing) for a reasonable synopsis of it. Have I done enough? Obviously not. I'm still having issues.

 

But I don't think there is any way that I am going to able to adequately represent the true nature of what goes on between H and I, to you here. (Again, this is obvious. Mostly due to the fact that you only have one side of the story - mine.) And I think I'm at a point now that I've been focusing so much on the negatives, that it's not even helpful to vent anymore. I'm going to work hard to focus more on the positives, and see where it goes from there. Usually, this sort of extreme response of mine is self-limited (although it has shown to be recurring, so I guess still very concerning). And things will get better. I can feel that happening now. Not fixed, mind you. But on an upswing again. Maybe I just have unrealistic expectations for LTR's? Could certainly be.

 

I can briefly tell you this: I have talked to him about my feelings in the relationship. Just about the only thing I haven't told him is the odor thing and the nausea thing. I think that is too visceral for him to see anything beyond hurt if I said such. I don't want or need to hurt him in that way. Call me whatever you want for it, but that's my choice at the end of the day and I know it's for the best.

 

I reconsidered this position this last week, but still - come up knowing that it's not something that would serve any constructive purpose.

 

I will continue to work on seeing the good things about him, and shooting down any possible "grass is greener" thoughts that I might have. I agree that these mental dalliances can only be counter-productive to a successful marriage.

 

Thanks for your input and opinions.