Tell me when I'm going to stop caring

[HotPink]

Thanks for that, hotpink.

 

Why do you think it is that someone like me would be so unfair to a guy that I readily admit doesn't deserve it?

 

Really.

I'd like to know.

 

Why would I revel in making my own life so miserable do you think?

Character flaw?

Chemical imbalance?

Psychosis?

 

I will answer you in 2 words ........ Pure Selfishness!

 

Let the poor man go, he will appreciate it when he is happy with a new woman!

[Mustang Sally]

No MS, you misunderatand (I think).... I'm not suggesting you ARE making it up.

What I am saying is that you are examining the situation from so many angles, you can't tell which way is up any more...and that you are attempting to find as many reasons as possible to justify why it';s just not floating your boat.

Well, it just seems that there should be a rational, objective explanation to this all. But I guess what it comes down to is "I made a mistake." And that mistake is - eventually - going to come at a very high price.

 

I'm sorry. That sounds completely "drama queen." (how timely!) But that is the essence of how I feel right now. Truthfully, I need to be honest and admit that this has been a major problem for well over half of our nearly 16 years together (~ 14 married). If it hasn't gone away (for good) by now...I am feeling more and more resigned to the fact that it's just not going to go away.

 

MS, I really cannot emphasise this enough.

Your feelings, emotions and expressions of same, may well be your responsibility - but this is NOT your fault - !!

Oh, Geisha....

<sad smile>

There are sooooo many others who would beg to differ with you on that...

(See HotPink's post, above, as a case in point.)

 

I know at the end of the day, it shouldn't matter what others think. But it does.

 

These things happen. really, they do.

WHY do they happen?

What is the lesson here? I need to find that - I really do. Because, suppose - just suppose - that I leave H and go back to being on my own...how can I know how to avoid setting myself up for a repeat performance in the future, should an opportunity eventually come along? I would have to have learned enough from all of this so as to never cause this kind of bad situation again.

 

But I believe in this case, it's crippling you.

Maybe it is.

 

I really would be so much happier if you could just release this guilt a bit.

I'll try to work on that.

 

But in time, this resentment of his invading your personal space may become too much to bear as a neutral controllable emotion. You'll start to really dislike him, and eventually it could cause animosity, and a hostile rift.

You are right.

I know this about myself.

 

But you really do not help yourself or your children by taking it all upon your shoulders....

Maybe part of it is me trying to prepare for the inevitable public fallout should he and I ever separate/divorce. I would be so at fault, in the eyes of my community and family. Trust me on that one.

 

In any relationship it takes 2 to tango, and it's supposed to be an equal give and take. If you keep doing this to yourself, I can see you stressing yourself to a breakdown.

 

This really, really worries me.

Don't worry.

I'm not really a "donkey on the edge." I'm just being quite free with my thoughts and putting it ALL out there today, and in this thread. It is scary stuff, to be sure, what really goes on in people's heads, is it not?

 

I have never been terribly sold on IC...but maybe this is changing my mind about that.

 

IT's NOT ALL YOUR FAULT!!!!!

Thank you.

Sincerely.

Edited February 12, 2008 by Mustang Sally

[Storyrider]

Oh geez.

I'm having another crying day, today.

Aaargh!

 

((Mustang))

 

Oh my lord. I feel like I"m sinking again.

What the F*CK is WRONG with me?

 

I've been there, just not this particular day. I agree with Geisha's metaphor about the ostrich with its foot nailed to the floor. But it is easier said than done to do something about it. You and I have both put ourselves into a lose-lose situation, at least from where we're standing now. It is hard to take a step when in each direction the floorboards are rotten. The guilty part is, we've put ourselves here.

 

I'm in a rush, sorry this is not very thorough.

 

I just wanted to say something re the incident in the shower. I started a thread about something almost exactly like this that happened to me about six months back.

 

The thing is, you can talk yourself into it, logic yourself into it, tell yourself you're a bitch, have friendly conversations and make note of all his good qualities, but naked in the shower is just about as raw as you can get, and that is where the rubber hits the road; you're in the "now" and you're staring it right in the eye. And you're faced with the fact that all the reasoning in the world isn't going to fix what is at the crux of the matter.

[Geishawhelk]

Mustang Sally, it's a well-known fact (or it is now!) that if we ask 100 people their opinion, and 99 say how wonderful we look, and just one says we look like crap, we'll listen to, or focus on the 1 crappy comment....

 

Because we tend to focus on the negative. it's an awful Human Trait nurtured by Conditioning.

Which is why I'm asking when exactly you might have had it engrained in you that you should not only take, but accept and EXpect to bear the burden of guilt for all of this...?

 

Where exactly - and When exactly - did it enter your consciousness that "if this is happening, it must be me..."?

 

Storyrider are soooo wiuth you on this one.

gather whatever strength you need from us, and we'll do whatever we can to support you.

But Gurl, you gotta do something soon....

 

Hugs sweetheart...

[Mustang Sally]

Mustang Sally, it's a well-known fact (or it is now!) that if we ask 100 people their opinion, and 99 say how wonderful we look, and just one says we look like crap, we'll listen to, or focus on the 1 crappy comment....

Ha! True, that.

 

Which is why I'm asking when exactly you might have had it engrained in you that you should not only take, but accept and EXpect to bear the burden of guilt for all of this...?

 

Where exactly - and When exactly - did it enter your consciousness that "if this is happening, it must be me..."?

I don't know....?

I guess because I am able to recoginize all of the many good things about him? I know he is a great catch...just don't know that he's a great catch for me....

 

Although, he certainly isn't perfect. But I can't (and don't) expect him to be. He's just a guy, after all. Another human being with good points and bad points. In so many ways, we compliment each other. But I want that connection...and I do not have it.

 

I don't want to feel repulsed by my SO. And I shouldn't be feeling repulsed. He is NOT repulsive. Therefore, it seems to be pretty much 100% MY PROBLEM.

 

gather whatever strength you need from us, and we'll do whatever we can to support you.

But Gurl, you gotta do something soon....

Thank you.

And I hear you.

Maybe I should look into IC?

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that yet?

[Mustang Sally]

The thing is, you can talk yourself into it, logic yourself into it, tell yourself you're a bitch, have friendly conversations and make note of all his good qualities, but naked in the shower is just about as raw as you can get, and that is where the rubber hits the road; you're in the "now" and you're staring it right in the eye. And you're faced with the fact that all the reasoning in the world isn't going to fix what is at the crux of the matter.

So true.

Thanks for stating it so well, Story.

[Geishawhelk]

Maybe I should look into IC?

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that yet?

 

Isn' that what you're doing now....?

 

But I know what you mean.

Do you think it would help any more....?

[Storyrider]

Mustang, IC is nice for having someone neutral to talk to. Also for providing clarity and understanding, and self-improvement.

 

But FWIW, it hasn't helped me make any important decisions. Neither have my feelings changed towards anyone or anything important as a result of IC.

[Mustang Sally]

Ok. Actually I'm glad to hear all of that.

I wasn't really wanting to go to IC...if I was, I would have already done it by now.

 

I just didn't want to leave any stone unturned.

 

And yes, I think this is IC, in many ways.

Again, I thank you all for your time, concern, and input.

 

I'm not really crazy. Just a messed up middle aged woman...

 

Do you think all of this is just some permutation of a mid-life crisis?

I have often wondered that.

[Storyrider]

Midlife crisis--yes, I think it is one for me, and perhaps for you too. Part hormone fluctuations, part coming up on 40. But also it is this question that is not at all silly: What do I want to do with the second half of my life?

 

Midlife crisis doesn't mean that your problems are artificial and unfounded, just that it is a phenomenon many people go through.

[Geishawhelk]

The American indians have a great angle.

They call their little girls 'little bud' as an affectionate term. Then as a girl develops into a woman, she is termed as blossoming. The mother is the flower in full bloom. The woman in her middle years and heading for old age, is known as the 'precious fruit'...

Because she holds all the information necessary.... the nutritious pulp and the seeds of future knowledge with which to feed those who come to her for advice.

isn't it damnable that we view our middle-age as a 'mid-life crisis'?

That we regard the menopause as the 'end' of something when, given how long our lives are after this event, that it really isn't the end of something at all?

It's the beginning of something so much more wonderful, rich, precious and sacred....

 

I vote we celebrate the time of our lives when rather than regarding something like this as something to mourn the loss of, we begin instead to sing its praises and celebrate the dawn of something unexplored and wonderful!

 

I raise a long cool glass of champagne to the Prime of my days!!!!!

[Kasan]

Do you think all of this is just some permutation of a mid-life crisis?

I have often wondered that.

 

I firmly believe that you could be having a MLC. Thought that it was a possibility back last summer. How do I know that it could be a possibility? I had one myself. There's lots of information on the web that describes some of your feelings to a T.

 

I guess the point is MS--you aren't alone in how you feel, and it's not all your fault.

 

You will get through this!

Edited February 12, 2008 by Kasan

[Mustang Sally]

So the next obvious question is, how much credence should one give to feelings that arise during such a thing as a MLC?

 

As Story suggests, the conventional wisdom is that these are just immature (i.e. invalid) feelings. And we should grow up and get over them, before we make any bad decisions that we live to regret.

 

Maybe this is where I've been coming from with my question of "when am I going to stop caring" about lacking this vibrant/passionate (not all the time, mind you, but at least "consistent desire")/deep connection with my SO?

 

If it is a MLC, then isn't it implied that eventually I will "get over myself?" Hence, my unwillingness to throw the marriage away...

[Storyrider]

If it is a MLC, then isn't it implied that eventually I will "get over myself?" Hence, my unwillingness to throw the marriage away...

 

Right, excellent question. Kind of like in the teen years when some of us did all kinds of crazy things. Would we do things differently now?

 

Are the things we would do differently major or minor?

 

Also, I was thinking about this--as children, we all have these primal fantasies, right, about what we'd like our lives to be. And growing up often means dismissing them one by one, even though we might still desire them. Most of us can't be astronauts or cowgirls or princesses.

 

What about the fantasies we have about our dream partner? Not Brad Pitt, not someone perfect, just the one who speaks our language and fulfills our deepest desires. Are these also childish fantasies that we finally wise up and dismiss after midlife?

 

Or maybe at midlife we start bargaining with life (God, the devil, whomever) trying to find a way to meet those primal dreams, if they've gone unmet.

[twice_shy]

Ok.

But, to attempt to gain some constructive insight from what you have posted, could you tell me, twiceshy, what do you think are the things that make "some people" able to handle being married to one person and "some people" not? I would like to hear your opinions on that. Thanks.

 

Monogomy for the long term is simply just something that is in you or it isn't. Marriage is either for you or its not.

 

All I can say is if the idea of having sex with the same person exclusively for the rest of your life turns you off, simply don't get married. (i say "you" in a general sense to all people, not you in particular)

[twice_shy]

It seems the pendulum is still swinging. And when it swings, it really swings. My H got in the shower with me this morning and all I could think was "Get out of here! Can't I have a moment alone, without you and your dick's needs coming at me constantly?" OMG! How f*cked up (no pun intended) is THAT?!?! I have gone from horny sex-starved bitch-in-heat to a frigid mean-ass c*nt that can hardly stand the sight of him naked!

 

Ok, after reading this I think you need to do right by your husband and go see an attorney immediately and let him go.

[Geishawhelk]

My H got in the shower with me this morning and all I could think was "Get out of here! Can't I have a moment alone, without you and your dick's needs coming at me constantly?" OMG! How f*cked up (no pun intended) is THAT?!?! I have gone from horny sex-starved bitch-in-heat to a frigid mean-ass c*nt that can hardly stand the sight of him naked!

 

MS, don't answer this -especially on Forum - if you don't want to, but, what happened after this?

How did you manage to deal with it?

I'm not being a pervvy Voyeur, but the answer will just nail it for you, I think.

 

Look, I know we can all dance around the MLC issue, and wonder whether this is how our feelings are being led now, so are they real, and will I feel this way all the time, or will it change...

But the plain matter of the fact is, as you say, MS, this has been going on for a whole long time.... over half of your 16 years together, I think you said... Bit of a long MLC, don't you think?

 

I learnt something important in Counselling:

 

"Whatever situation you find yourself in, however soul-destroying, violent, damaging, destructive and debilitating it is for you - whatever is happening to devalue your personal Dignity and self-worth - If you persist in remaining, inspite of everything and everyone telling you to the contrary - THERE'S A PAYOFF.

What's your Payoff?"

 

I'm not talking the roof over your head, or a home for the kids, or anything to do with making your husband feel better.This question isn't about the practicalities....

At the end of the day, there is a moral/psychological payoff for you staying there.

This question is about sitting down, taking a long, cold "in-the-grey-light-of-day" hard look at what you are doing to yourself, and asking yourself the hardest question of all.

"I am staying in this relationship because it actually feeds my......"

 

Risking a sharp stinging slap across the cheek, and being shown the front door with a foot planted on my ass(p),

 

I'm asking you the million-dollar-question:

What's your payoff?

[HisLove]

No, I don't think it's a MLC. It's finally realising what does and doesn't make you happy. When I came to my realisation, I was still in my 20's - hardly MLC.

 

Fear is probably what keeps you there MS. Ending a marriage IS scary, but it's not the end of the world. Having said that, I am a brave and confident, courageous person. I don't usually conform to what everyone else thinks is the right thing to do. While I didn't really know how things would pan out, I had enough faith in myself to hear me out honestly. It finally came down to sacrificing myself or not, to keep everyone else MAYBE happy (who really knows?). I chose not to sacrifice myself.

[Lishy]

Hi Mustang

 

I have to share this with you, when I was with my sons dad (we were together for 14 years) even after 14 years we still had sex lots. It got to a stage were he turned my stomach, looking up at him as he was humping away and looking at his body and his face (the body and face that used to turn me on) churned my stomach and I had to shut my eyes.

 

Why? Because he put so much under handed pressure on me for sex he turned me off it! He turned me off of HIM by just being so reliant on me to make him happy. If I refused him sex he would sulk and that turned the pressure up tenfold!

 

I then assumed I just hated sex - Until I left him! Boy did I realise I dod not hate sex! I was like a nymphomaniac and every guy I have met since we split 3 years ago has called me a nymph!

 

I did want sex, just not with him and the reason was that the pressures of life with him just turned me off him and although at the time I didnt realise this, I just didnt love him anymore!

 

Honey I have told you this before but I will say it again, you are not getting younger, you only have ONE life and it is not a rehearsal so do what makes YOU happy! Your kids will be happier of you are! Trust me on that!

 

You hubby may be lovely and sweet and kind but he is not for you anymore. We are allowed to change our minds you know!

[Geishawhelk]

I am a brave and confident, courageous person.

I can vouch for that... always clear, and straight to the point...

 

I don't usually conform to what everyone else thinks is the right thing to do. ......I chose not to sacrifice myself.

 

 

 

And that's the bottom line.

 

The self-sacrifice is NEVER worth it. Never.

because at one point or another, it will come back to haunt you, make you resentful and bite ya where the dog would have.

[marlena]

MS,

 

I think your major problem is the social outcry you fear if you do decide to end this marriage. Like you have already admitted, you were brought up in an environment where divorce was not an option no matter what the circumstances. It is this mentality that you need to shirk off before you can decide what to do about your situation. Why are you so fearful of what other people may say or do? We are all to a point influenced by the people in our immediate environment but as we grow we learn to filter out these influences and accept some of the values that we have been taught while rejecting others.

 

What worries me is that you say that you are repulsed by your husband physically. Not that the sex isn't great or even good but that you feel disgust at the thought of sex with him. Why is this, do you think? What exactly repulses you? His body? Yes, now I remember, you said something about an odour. Can these things be fixed? Or is it the way he makes love to you? Can something be improved there?

 

On the other end of the spectrum, what are your husband's good qualities? What do you admire in him? Love him for? Are these enough to make up for the bad physical side to your marriage? How important is the physical side to you?

 

Has something or someone triggered this off recently? A friend who has divorced, for instance? Or meeting a man that you are attracted to?

 

Ask yourself this.

If I didn't need to worry about society's reaction..my family and my friends for instance, would I divorce this man?

 

Sorry for all the questions. Just trying to understand.

Edited February 13, 2008 by marlena

[mental_traveller]

I'm sorry, it's like I said in the beginning.

You don't love him.

 

I think she loves him, but is lacking any kind of physical passion, and thus missing that "in love" feeling. It's very common in long-term relationships where there wasn't much strong physical chemistry in the beginning.

 

I also think she should leave. You only get one life, and spending the next 30-40 years missing out on such an important part of it would be a real shame.

Edited February 13, 2008 by mental_traveller

[Mustang Sally]

What about the fantasies we have about our dream partner? Not Brad Pitt, not someone perfect, just the one who speaks our language and fulfills our deepest desires. Are these also childish fantasies that we finally wise up and dismiss after midlife?

 

Or maybe at midlife we start bargaining with life (God, the devil, whomever) trying to find a way to meet those primal dreams, if they've gone unmet.

Very thought-provoking, Story. Very.

I wish I knew the answers.

 

I guess most of me thinks that yes, often we must indeed wise up and dismiss the dreams after midlife. Or at least, some of the dreams.

[Mustang Sally]

Ok, after reading this I think you need to do right by your husband and go see an attorney immediately and let him go.

Yes.

I'm certain that I'm the only woman who has ever had such feelings....

(or at least one of the few stupid enough to admit to them in public, even if anonymous...)

 

And it certainly makes sense that the mere reality of having and admitting such feelings would qualify me as having only ONE good option for resolution: Divorce.

 

 

Call me crazy, but I'm just not one to go running to divorce easily.

 

I don't know. It's funny. Many people interpret what I'm admitting to and presenting here as me being a "throw away" or a "walk away" spouse. Or a purely selfishly motivated person.

 

I admit I have many flaws, and am self-motivated my fair share, but I think I'm more the opposite - I'm having negative feelings about my relationship, but I'm very reluctant to "throw it away" or "walk away from it." Maybe to a fault? That remains to be seen, I suppose. But I want to do everything I can to remedy my brokenness within the relationship before I "find an attorney immediately and let him go." Actually, I think I owe it to all involved (husband, first and foremost - because that is what he has told me and asked of me) to do just that.

 

I suppose it all depends on one's perspective, though, doesn't it?

[twice_shy]

Yes.

I'm certain that I'm the only woman who has ever had such feelings....

(or at least one of the few stupid enough to admit to them in public, even if anonymous...)

 

And it certainly makes sense that the mere reality of having and admitting such feelings would qualify me as having only ONE good option for resolution: Divorce.

 

 

Call me crazy, but I'm just not one to go running to divorce easily.

 

By saying the things you've said about your husband. Its clear you despise him and consider him utterly digusting. So staying with him really isn't fair to him. Does he know just how much he disgusts you?

 

 

I don't know. It's funny. Many people interpret what I'm admitting to and presenting here as me being a "throw away" or a "walk away" spouse. Or a purely selfishly motivated person.

 

I admit I have many flaws, and am self-motivated my fair share, but I think I'm more the opposite - I'm having negative feelings about my relationship, but I'm very reluctant to "throw it away" or "walk away from it."

 

You aren't just simply having negative feelings, you hold major contempt for your husband to have said the things you said. This isn't just a matter of some small negative feelings.

 

 

Maybe to a fault? That remains to be seen, I suppose. But I want to do everything I can to remedy my brokenness within the relationship before I "find an attorney immediately and let him go."

 

How do you go from the the type of mindset of "he totally digusts me and all he wants is his penis satisfied" to "I think I love him!"??

 

 

Actually, I think I owe it to all involved (husband, first and foremost - because that is what he has told me and asked of me) to do just that.

 

If you are going to to that, then before anything, you owe it to him to think about him as something other than a leper. But really, are you all of a sudden going to be attracted to him again? Are you gonna go from being sickened by the fact he wanted to take a shower with you to telling him to "come on in, the water is fine!"?

 

As long as you hold these contemptuous and disgusted feelings for him, you are doing a disservice to him by just simply staying in the marriage for the marriages sake.