What I Just Never Get

[NoIDidn't]

Hi All

 

I don't want anyone to think that I am judging them or being critical or anything. I am not. I am just wanting to state something that most of us formerly betrayed have witnessed in many threads, but when it is brought up, the OPs vehemently deny.

 

I am not trying to call any particular poster or posters out, but some somewhat recent posts (recent as in the last 12 months) underscore my confusion.

 

Almost all OPs post about how happy they are every now and then. More post about things that confuse or concern them. But the posters I have in mind refused any and all conversation on their As.

 

They posted about breaking up with the APs for a period and how freeing it felt. They posted about being back in the A and not wanting any judgment for it. They posted about having better Rs with the AP than the BS did.

 

And then dissatisfaction set in and they posted about ending it, how much love was there, but that the A was not enough and it did indeed have many things against it (that were defended vehemently too).

 

I am not judging any of the posters for what they did or didn't post. I am just always confused when the very things that others said were probably happening were denied, but when the A is over or they decide to end it, the very things that were denied are the things being admitted to.

 

I am guessing fear of criticism and judgment plays a part in it. There are quite a few people who are willing to flame others for their feelings. But then, there are people like me, that are really wanting to understand more than just the good times.

 

I am really not trying to get into specifics, if you can't tell. I just want to know why can't we discuss real feelings of disappointment without it turning into the thread of the century full of the required insults and polarized stances.

 

I know it happens on the other forums as well. But in this forum it catches my attention more. Anyone wanna talk about it? If you don't, I understand. (I have more to say but not turning the opening post into a book).

[LIVEWIRE]

I think I know what you are talking about NID. From what I have witnessed in the short time I have been here I know what you mean.

 

I can only speculate that many OP's do not...like you said, want to be judged or criticized , or to hear "I told you so'. I don't think anyone

wants to hear that. I know I wouldn;t. It seems to take an extreme toll on

anyone involved in an EA, and the last thing anyone needs is to be blasted on the poor choices they HAVE MADE. Especially when what they need MOST when it ends, is a refuge.

 

I am learning a lot from this particular forum myself, so I hope this thread gets more replies.

[growingimpatient]

I'm brand new to this forum, but I can give you my opinion. Im not even sure I know where your coming from, but I can give you my fears on posting about specifics about the affair. I guess I'm afraid of hearing that my situation is like everyone elses. We all want to believe that our situation is "different." I lurked on this site for 2 years, never could post fearing that I would hear that I was on a dead end road. It wasn't until something drastic happened, that I felt comfortable enough to talk about it. I'm trying to make as much sense as I can...world has turned upside down. Please forgive me for incomplete sentences and random thoughts right now!!! lol

[norajane]

During an affair, the feel-good hormones are in full force, and you wanna believe everything will work out the way you want it to. So anything anyone says to the contrary, any pointing out of negatives, any insistence that things are not likely as they seem will be met with resistance. The negatives are not what is in focus at that time - it's the positives that the OP focuses on. If they weren't caught up in the positives and the good feelings and hope, they wouldn't have gotten into the affair and wouldn't maintain it.

 

Think back to being in high school and you dated someone your parents didn't approve of. Didn't you defend him and try to tell them he was a great guy and they just didn't know him or how he is with you? And then when he turned out to hurt you as your parents feared, suddenly you saw him with the clarity your parents had about him in the first place. It's very similar.

 

OP's are real people, human, and in love. They will defend their love and their lover for as long as they are in love and in hope.

[Cobra_X30]

I am guessing fear of criticism and judgment plays a part in it. There are quite a few people who are willing to flame others for their feelings. But then, there are people like me, that are really wanting to understand more than just the good times.

 

NID,

 

Just realize that with many poeple... if you don't admit to a mistake... then it doesn't feel so much like a mistake.

 

We often mistake perception for truth.

 

People in affairs rarely are in touch with reality.

[NoIDidn't]

Think back to being in high school and you dated someone your parents didn't approve of. Didn't you defend him and try to tell them he was a great guy and they just didn't know him or how he is with you? And then when he turned out to hurt you as your parents feared, suddenly you saw him with the clarity your parents had about him in the first place. It's very similar.

 

 

Can't say that I had this experience in high school. My parents loved the guys I actually brought home - they were preachers' kids. LOL. Seriously.

 

But the guys that I never brought home, I didn't have to defend. No one knew about them but me most of the time. I didn't date much. Didn't have time. But I do understand what you are saying. The biggest difference here though, is that we are talking about grown-ups, not high school kids who lack the experience in love and relationships that adults are *supposed* to have.

 

The question isn't about their humanity, its about their fears.

[LIVEWIRE]

I also think that unless someone has actually BEEN in an affair, it might not be fair to say what they did is "right or "wrong". I think a forum like this one invites all types of repsonses because it DOESN'T cater

to "OW" only....perhaps if it did, they would get more in the way of supporting their affairs, than tearing it down. So on some subconcious level they may WANT to hear the truth, otherwise, wouldn't they seek a "OW" forum only?

[norajane]

The biggest difference here though' date=' is that we are talking about grown-ups, not high school kids who lack the experience in love and relationships that adults are *supposed* to have.[/quote']

 

Falling in love makes us all feel like teen agers, no matter how old we are when it happens.

 

The question isn't about their humanity, its about their fears.

 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

[GreenEyedLady]

I see that no OW are posting, so I guess I will because I'm probably one of the posters in question...

 

I haven't posted much about my personal R because when I first came here I gave some info and was flamed and had several posters try to talk me out of it...So I post to support others or call out trolls when I get the chance...

 

I get my support from posters on this forum who don't post much anymore, but we are friends and support and encourage one another...I did not need the constant belittling of my lover and myself...When I posted personal facts, the put-downs from this forum took a toll on my R which was difficult at times...I did not find the support I needed on the forum, I found it from posters in PM...

 

Now almost 2 years later, I have what I need...My honey is dissolving his M, we are moving in together and we are going to share our lives together...If I were to come here and give updates, what responses do you think I'd get?

 

Once a cheater, always a cheater....

He needs time alone...

When a man marries his mistress, he leaves a vacancy for a mistress...

Etc.

 

Is that what someone needs when they are making a life changing decision? All negativity? I believe in self-fulfilling prophecies...And I'm believing in a positive one for me...I'm not going to allow people's negative thoughts to affect my life ever again...So that's why I rarely post about my situation...I try to help other OW in their situations...through pm...

 

And the fact of the matter is that things change sometimes daily and you don't need people saying "Well what about what you said yesterday? And now you're back with him?" Because honestly, most of the time, the MM tries to win the OW back and if she loves him, she takes him back...(We're talking real OW here, not trolls.) It's the nature of the R, sorry to say...

 

So it's not criticism or judgment, because I can't and don't seek to change anyone's mind or justify my R in any way...It's that no matter how you slice it, what is said here affects the real world...And I want my R solid; I have no room for doubt, there are too many lives to be affected...

 

I believe that I will have my happily ever after with the love of my life who is divorcing...I don't expect it to always be a fairytale, I know it will be work, sometimes, alot of the time, rarely...But I'm willing to give it my all and take the risk because I believe in the strength of the R, I believe we've identified the reason this happened and how to protect our R in the future and because we both know that we want to spend the rest of our lives in the open, with no lies or secrecy, loving each other and blending our families...

 

So I hope I answered your question...

 

GEL

[IfWishesWereHorses]

NID,

 

I believe that what you are speaking of can be found on all forums regarding relationships of any kind. I believe it's seen on dating, coping, marriage, infidelity and even parenting, ect... HOPE FLOATS.

 

None of us want to hear what we don't want to believe, but it's awfully nice once we come to that conclusion ourselves to be able to admit it without having to eat crow. Acceptance is a process and sometimes a long and difficult one.

 

I know as a BS I'm lucky to have friends that have handled me with "kid gloves" till I could see the proverbial light for myself.

[Lyssa]

I haven't posted much about my personal R because when I first came here I gave some info and was flamed and had several posters try to talk me out of it...So I post to support others or call out trolls when I get the chance...

 

Same here and a very few OW helped me through - GEL being one of them.

 

I get my support from posters on this forum who don't post much anymore, but we are friends and support and encourage one another...I did not need the constant belittling of my lover and myself...When I posted personal facts, the put-downs from this forum took a toll on my R which was difficult at times...I did not find the support I needed on the forum, I found it from posters in PM...

 

It did the same to my R and for quite some time, I stopped posting. I don't need approvals from anyone.. when I first came here, all I wanted was to get insights/support from those who were/are in the same situation. Some OW were very kind enough to PM me (even one or two BS - not to flame but to understand my situation).

 

Is that what someone needs when they are making a life changing decision? All negativity? I believe in self-fulfilling prophecies...And I'm believing in a positive one for me...I'm not going to allow people's negative thoughts to affect my life ever again...So that's why I rarely post about my situation...I try to help other OW in their situations...through pm...

 

Exactly. I rarely post because all I ever gotten from other people were judgments and on top of that, some ridiculed my R - something I didn't need. No one can really understand the things I went through except for those who have been in my shoes.

 

Things are definitely different now between the two of us - better in so many ways now that D is over. Our R is just like any other type of R - love, care and nurture. He has always been honest about a lot of things, and for being a former OW - it's easy to tell if he was lying.

[OWoman]

NID this isn't directly answering your question, but as an OW I'm amazed at the different receptions you get when you post something "negative", like speaking about the pain and fall-out that surrounds MM leaving his M for OW - supportive, affirming, constructive, it's like the welcoming committee to heaven or something; compared with when you post something "positive" like feeling secure in your R with MM and KNOWING that he's being sexually exclusive with you. Then the flamethrowers come out, attacking you from all sides, calling you on your certainty and throwing every cliche in the book at you. Why is it that people get off on hearing the negative, but no one wants to enjoy and celebrate the positive? It's not just here - on the marriage boards too, the threads that draw most energy are the ones where the situtaions seem the most dire, like rubberneckers gathered around a car accident scene - but here the venom seems most pronounced. As if the rotation of the earth will be thrown out if an A turns into a successful and happy R, so we have to fight to prevent that at all costs.

 

Yes there are some people who're posting oblivious to the obvious red flags in their own situations, and raising concerns or cautions is constructive and helpful. But when someone is simply relating something positive about their A, or their R-that-used-to-be-an-A, it seems most people want to pick up stones to throw to knock them off their perch so that they can land up back in the pit of unhappiness.

 

Why are people so ready to believe negative stuff about As - I've not seen anyone who's posted about some unhappiness in an A having their perception challenged: "yes, you THINK you might be unhappy and crying every night but think about it, that shred of hope he dangles out to you, that keeps you hoping and wishing, and alive, that's great, that's wonderful, everyone should have one. You just don't realise how lucky you are! Pick yourself up and go knock 'em out!" - but so reluctant to believe anything positive anyone has to say about their situations, feeling the need to challenge each perception and discredit any chance that it might be "real"? Is it really so scary to think that what you believe is wrong might be right for someone else?

[GreenEyedLady]

Is it really so scary to think that what you believe is wrong might be right for someone else?

 

That is so right on! Your post addresses everything I've seen also!

[GreenEyedLady]

Same here and a very few OW helped me through - GEL being one of them.

 

Hey there Lyssa!

[SpanksTheMonkey]

Not trying to be disrespectful honestly but I'm always amazed at the amount of encouragement OW want when ever I seam to drift in here.

 

It just doesn't compute in my head would you go to a public place and expect the same amount of support or encouragement.

 

If you said I'm in an A with a marred person out loud? I some how don't think so.

 

Likewise if you went to a therapist would you expect encouragement or support to continue the A? I don't think so.

 

But yet some seam surprised let down maybe that they don't always get that general support here in a public forum why?

 

 

 

Honestly I was surprised when I 1st saw this part of LS but to each his own I guess.

 

Is the general idea here to try and continue the As? or to try and guide others out of them? just wondering please don't bite my head off ok.

[Lizzie60]

Hum.. I think, like one poster said, it doesn't only apply to the OW threads... it applies to any other kind of situations...

 

People, usually, want to read what they want to believe or they want to be told it's OK.. they can feel the way they do or do the things they want to do.

 

I truly (except for a few) believe that most posters give honest advices.

[Lyssa]

Hey there Lyssa!

 

Hey there GEL!

 

Not trying to be disrespectful honestly but I'm always amazed at the amount of encouragement OW want when ever I seam to drift in here.

 

It just doesn't compute in my head would you go to a public place and expect the same amount of support or encouragement.

 

If you said I'm in an A with a marred person out loud? I some how don't think so.

 

I wasn't looking for encouragement. I was looking for people that were in my situation - people that understand what I was going through. I did listen to both sides - BW/OW - and took whatever that applied to the situation I was in. Everyone can tell me what to do but it is up to me to want to do it or not.

 

But yet some seam surprised let down maybe that they don't always get that general support here in a public forum why?

 

I had all the support I needed and it wasn't a let down. What took me by surprise was the flamers. Of course, I didn't expect people to sugar-coat what they had to say but there is a nicer way to make people see your point - like a few BW did.

 

Is the general idea here to try and continue the As? or to try and guide others out of them? just wondering please don't bite my head off ok.

 

Not to continue the A. I think it all depends on the situation OW is in. Like I said earlier, I came here to seek insights from OW. How they got involved, what made some stay or leave and so on.

[OWoman]

Likewise if you went to a therapist would you expect encouragement or support to continue the A? I don't think so.

 

I just had to lol when I read this! My MM's counsellor DID encourage him to continue the A, and to gain strength from it and to use the lessons learned from it to reflect on his M and whether that was worth remaining in.

 

If the A is damaging or harmful to the client, the therapist / counsellor would encourage them to leave it, but if it's a source of positive energy, hope and love in the client's life, why on earth would they want to stomp on it?

 

Any counsellor, therapist or other mental health professional worth their salt encourages WHAT'S BEST FOR THE CLIENT, now what some random person on a street corner might consider best for that client.

[GreenEyedLady]

Not trying to be disrespectful honestly but I'm always amazed at the amount of encouragement OW want when ever I seam to drift in here.

 

It just doesn't compute in my head would you go to a public place and expect the same amount of support or encouragement.

 

See up above:

 

The Other Man / Woman The other side of the story: Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner.

 

That's what the forum was created for...

 

But honestly most support comes from the OW trying to leave or who are unhappy...Everyone else usually gets flamed...

 

That's where PM's come in...

[Tomcat33]

I am not sure I understood what the purpose of this thread is or what the question is so I just pulled out the obvious question that stood out:

 

 

I am really not trying to get into specifics, if you can't tell. I just want to know why can't we discuss real feelings of disappointment without it turning into the thread of the century full of the required insults and polarized stances.

 

 

Why do people only want to hear feelings of disappointment,or "you told me so" confessions, I think is even more the question that begs to be asked?

 

From there stems a lot of the negativity we see and possibly the answer to this thread question.

 

It boils down to that fixation some people have to prove another wrong simply because they do not agree with their choices.

Edited February 9, 2008 by Tomcat33

[NoIDidn't]

NID,

 

I believe that what you are speaking of can be found on all forums regarding relationships of any kind. I believe it's seen on dating, coping, marriage, infidelity and even parenting, ect... HOPE FLOATS.

 

None of us want to hear what we don't want to believe, but it's awfully nice once we come to that conclusion ourselves to be able to admit it without having to eat crow. Acceptance is a process and sometimes a long and difficult one.

 

I know as a BS I'm lucky to have friends that have handled me with "kid gloves" till I could see the proverbial light for myself.

 

I see as usual that some here have gotten defensive and that's not at all what I was after. I wasn't looking for any level of justifications or even more defenses of the A. Like IWWH posted, I believe it is part and parcel of ALL kinds of R, but in other Rs people are more willing to speak openly and honestly about why and how and what they really feel at times.

 

I am well aware of many of the situations that have been posted, that's why I wasn't trying to get into specifics. I wasn't trying to call anyone out. I wasn't asking for a recap or history of your A. I was asking about honesty and feelings.

 

I respect the right of every poster here to post when and what they post. That wasn't the question. The question is when you do post something sensitive or a real feeling, why the unwillingness to have a conversation about the many angles of it? Why the defensiveness to honest questions sometimes? Some of us are really trying to learn more about the feelings, regardless of the fact that it is an A that we are looking at.

 

I hope this clarifies things. I don't want this thread to be about the A or more defending of the A or whatever is going on now. This thread is for discussing a phenomenon that runs through many of the threads here. Can we talk about that?

[NoIDidn't]

I am not sure I understood what the purpose of this thread is

 

Please feel free to not post on threads when you don't understand the subject matter.

 

 

Why do people only want to hear feelings of disappointment,or "you told me so" confessions, I think is even more the question that begs to be asked?

 

You are free to start your own thread on this very subject instead of attempting to change the subject of this one.

 

I'd really appreciate that.

[Lyssa]

I see as usual that some here have gotten defensive and that's not at all what I was after. I wasn't looking for any level of justifications or even more defenses of the A. Like IWWH posted' date=' I believe it is part and parcel of ALL kinds of R, but in other Rs people are more willing to speak openly and honestly about why and how and what they really feel at times.[/quote']

 

If I'm not mistaken, in the beginning when I got here - I did post about my feelings. I didn't start a thread but I did post here and there as to how I felt about being involved with MM. I had ups and downs but for most part - it was a lot of ups.

[NoIDidn't]

If I'm not mistaken, in the beginning when I got here - I did post about my feelings. I didn't start a thread but I did post here and there as to how I felt about being involved with MM. I had ups and downs but for most part - it was a lot of ups.

 

Thanks for posting this. I am not sure of how it answers the question about the fears of actually posting feelings, good or bad, though.

 

I am not even sure that I am really being clear without using specifics. I really am not trying to call any posters out or quote them, because then they may feel targetted unfairly. And, I am not trying to put a spot light on anyone. And not trying to make anyone feel the need to come in and defend what they posted.

 

I want to know why a person can post how much they disliked being in an A at the end, whether the MP leaves the M with them or not (notice I didn't say for them). I want to know what is going through their minds about this internal conflict. This is the difference between a R that started as an A vs. one that didn't. So while the general feelings are similar, the discomfort with actually being the OP is completely unique to an A.

 

I guess what I am asking is best posted in those infamous PMs that go around and make other posters feel alienated.

[Lyssa]

Thanks for posting this. I am not sure of how it answers the question about the fears of actually posting feelings' date=' good or bad, though.[/quote']

 

I thought so too. I wasn't too sure if I answered your Qs as I wasn't too sure what it is that you really want. I don't blame you for not getting into specifics although it will help.