What I Just Never Get

[Lyssa]

Damn! I wish my mom wasn't a Scorpio!!

 

Can you imagine 3 Libras in one family? Me, my father and my late mother!

 

Off topic - sorry!

[NoIDidn't]

Maybe it's time for them to move on as well.

 

 

Hey, hey, HEY!!!!

 

No suggesting that!

 

You guys are getting pretty close to the conversation that I am looking for, but not anyone leaving.

 

Its annoying to get the quotes of the purpose of the forum, but see in practice that NO ONE really is interested in it really until they feel threatened or judged. No matter they've done the very thing that they are accusing others of. (Just the way I feel about that, no need for flames)

 

How can one be supported when they won't be honest about what they are feeling? How can one expect REAL support when so afraid of what might be said to them? What can be done to get past this point?

 

I guess in reality this forum isn't too different from the real world. I would say the same to a friend IRL. So maybe, I'm being unrealistic. It IS hard to talk about real feelings. I just think it should be easier among relative strangers.

[whichwayisup]

I'm heading out for the rest of the day soon, but later on I will start a thread in the watercooler about this. I think we can have a very interesting topic to talk about! Check it out later this evening, k!

[whichwayisup]

How can one be supported when they won't be honest about what they are feeling? How can one expect REAL support when so afraid of what might be said to them? What can be done to get past this point?

 

Respect. I've always said this. Harsh and tough love support goes a long way, but as long as it's respectful. The bashing and putting someone down doesn't help. Problem is, that what some give (harsh) is read as bashing to some readers and they feel they need to jump in and point that out, which in turn, causes reactions and more reactions... Maybe if each person stuck to helping the original poster instead of picking apart another advisor's reply, some of the stuff that goes on would stop...

[herenow]

That's true HN and I can honestly say I have been guilty of putting forth my philosophies in a very challenging way, and in fact you an I have had many disagreements on this and I would like to pulbicly state that YOUR particular case comes to mind when I now realise that my ideas have changed since I came first came to LS. It was thanks to the thread you just talked about that my ideas have shifted and I am not SO black and white about people who can actually make it work. I am more open to the idea now thanks to your story. The way in which you have always presented your situation has been very educational, for me at least. I apologise if I was persistant with you in past arguments but I have to admit I have learned SO much from your situation, and you are one of the few people on the oppposing sides that I can honestly say I respect for what you did and have changed my mind on how things actually CAN work.

 

So just because people don't admit how HIGH or LOW they are feeling it doesn't mean that what they taken in here does not affect them.

 

 

Not everyone has had this effect on me, but you have and it's fair to note that, if anything for all the grief I have given you in the past.

For what it's worth you have definitely earned my respect.

 

There you have it, Tomcat spills the beans

 

TC, I think you and I have been truly honest with each other and you are one of the posters that I get some valuable insight from.

 

I do believe that you learn more about life from people that you don't always agree with. Thank you so much for this post. Truth is, we have been agreeing more lately. Maybe we are both beginning to understand each other.

 

BTW, I can flame as good as anyone when I'm in a heated debate. I try to stop myself, but sometimes that side of me comes out and for that I apologize.

[NoIDidn't]

I do find it useful (some of the threads) regardless controversial or not. I don't mind an open discussion as long as everyone tries to behave but seriously, I don't think that's possible. There will be some of us who feel as if we're being attacked - be it OW or not.

 

That's the part that makes the openness difficult. The fact that there will always be some posters that won't behave. Wish there was a way to moderate our own threads in addition to the OverLord Mods. LOL.

[Lyssa]

How can one be supported when they won't be honest about what they are feeling? How can one expect REAL support when so afraid of what might be said to them? What can be done to get past this point?

 

I was (still am) honest and I took all the mean things that were said to me. I would love to find out as much as you about what can be done to get past this.

 

I'm heading out for the rest of the day soon, but later on I will start a thread in the watercooler about this. I think we can have a very interesting topic to talk about! Check it out later this evening, k!

 

Great - another thread that I'll miss!

[NoIDidn't]

I was (still am) honest and I took all the mean things that were said to me. I would love to find out as much as you about what can be done to get past this.

 

I feel that I have been honest on this forum as well. I didn't start out all that well, but I was honest. I learned a lot about myself and my Rs when others have allowed me to see into their situations a little more.

 

The only thing that I can think of to get past it, is not even responding to problematic posters. But that is so hard to do sometimes.

[Lyssa]

I feel that I have been honest on this forum as well. I didn't start out all that well' date=' but I was honest. [b']I learned a lot about myself and my Rs when others have allowed me to see into their situations a little more.[/b]

 

The only thing that I can think of to get past it, is not even responding to problematic posters. But that is so hard to do sometimes.

 

That makes two of us. I can't believe how open and honest some people are here on LS. I admit that after I was flamed in the beginning I didn't open up that much (but honest with whatever I had posted on feelings/insecurities) but read a lot on here and learned so much from other people with different views/backgrounds.

 

I can't help replying to some of the meansters I come across here but for most of the time, I bite my tongue cause I hate getting infractions!

[herenow]

Putting all kidding aside when it comes to Lizzie's post. If a suffering BW came to this forum looking for answers, Lizzie would be her greatest nightmare. What she does to a fragile BW is no better than anything a BW has ever said to an OW.

 

If I were in that fragile state, I would just ignore Lizzie and move on to someone that could help me with my situation. If a OW is reading posts from someone on this forum that makes her feel worse, IMO they should stop reading their posts.

 

Personally, I think Lizzie is hysterical. She should have her own radio show. It would be a hoot!

[Tomcat33]

I went back to look at the threads you've started since the beginning...

 

It seems that this is the type of thread you like to start for some reason... you've posted a few very similar ones.

 

You keep saying 'you're confused, etc.' but methink you like to start some kind of OW/BS war in a verrrry subtle way..

 

Saturdays are boring...

 

Just saying...

 

--------------

 

 

 

:lmao: How did I miss this gem? Oh Lizzie you are too much, you said what was I was secretly thinking but I won't go there....(oh wait did I just type that out?!?!) :lmao:

 

But seriously...

 

TC, I think you and I have been truly honest with each other and you are one of the posters that I get some valuable insight from.

 

I do believe that you learn more about life from people that you don't always agree with. Thank you so much for this post. Truth is, we have been agreeing more lately. Maybe we are both beginning to understand each other.

 

Yeah I am brutally honest...my friends and loved ones know me for this character trait and they embrace it, but to strangers behind a computer I can see why that would be offputting. The difference is that in person the person's aura accompanies the thoughts and it's a whole other experience. But even having said that I can tell the types of people I would get along with in the real world and the ones I just would have no desire to get to know. It's just the way it is...some people you click with others not so much. And I know I will be accepted by some and not so much by others, but I don't really care about that. There are some people who have this need to be liked by everyone, I am not one of those people.

 

So because I am not afraid to not be like I will persist to challenge people I don't see eye to eye with, I want to know if there is anything I can learn from them. People question things to see if they can learn more but sometimes all you end up with is a an argument because quite frankly the other person has nothing of mind altering substance to share so you just end up sticking to your guns. I can gladly say you have made me see things a little differently and I can totally see that what you claim here about yourself is true. It is nice to see people that actually have made it to the other side, other people are not so convincing but that doesn't mean they are not honest I just don't see it that's all.

 

 

It's a also a choice I think, I have read enough of what you have shared that I have chosen to respect you. For me respect is earned not handed on a silver platter. I think other people see it the other way around, respect is something you give unconditionally and work backwards from there.

[herenow]

Yeah I am brutally honest...my friends and loved ones know me for this character trait and they embrace it, but to strangers behind a computer I can see why that would be offputting. The difference is that in person the person's aura accompanies the thoughts and it's a whole other experience. But even having said that I can tell the types of people I would get along with in the real world and the ones I just would have no desire to get to know. It's just the way it is...some people you click with others not so much. And I know I will be accepted by some and not so much by others, but I don't really care about that. There are some people who have this need to be liked by everyone, I am not one of those people.

 

So because I am not afraid to not be like I will persist to challenge people I don't see eye to eye with, I want to know if there is anything I can learn from them. People question things to see if they can learn more but sometimes all you end up with is a an argument because quite frankly the other person has nothing of mind altering substance to share so you just end up sticking to your guns. I can gladly say you have made me see things a little differently and I can totally see that what you claim here about yourself is true. It is nice to see people that actually have made it to the other side, other people are not so convincing but that doesn't mean they are not honest I just don't see it that's all.

 

 

It's a also a choice I think, I have read enough of what you have shared that I have chosen to respect you. For me respect is earned not handed on a silver platter. I think other people see it the other way around, respect is something you give unconditionally and work backwards from there.

 

I'm happy that we have mutual respect and the ability to agree to disagree on some things. That is indeed a positive that has come from this board making every post worthwhile.

 

I suffer from brutal honesty as well. Most of my friends and family appreciate it and some even live by it themselves. Not everyone loves to be around someone who will tell hem the truth and not what they want to hear, but I can say that everyone knows that I'm a trustworthy friend who will be there no matter what in good times and bad. That's the best I can offer.

[OWoman]

I find this thread to be one of the most interesting in a while. Why? Because some of the people posting here saying that we only want to see the negative, are the same ones who question my happiness in my marriage. Funny how we are supposed to see the positive when it comes to the OW and the possibility that she will have a happy ending, but when it comes to the success of a marriage post affair, well that's just impossible.

 

I started a thread for BW on the infidelity forum a few months ago telling them that there is hope if both partners are willing to do what it takes to fix the marriage. Like bees on honey, the OW were there telling everyone that it's just not possible. Where is the positive thinking when the tables are turned and the MM really does love his wife and not the OW?

 

HN I missed your thread so can't comment on what was or wasn't said there but if your point is correct (I'm not saying it isn't!) then that is equally problematic IMO. As I said in my post (which was, IIRC, the one that started the whole "people only want to see the negative" thrust) that this isn't unique to this forum, I've seen it in the marriage forum too... but it does seem to be particularly acute here. People really do seem to begrudge other's happiness. And to question it. But no one questions unhappiness, oddly enough - it's as if that's simply the natural order of things.

[silktricks]

People really do seem to begrudge other's happiness. And to question it. But no one questions unhappiness, oddly enough - it's as if that's simply the natural order of things.

I don't really believe that the problem is begrudging another happiness. I believe it's more that both BW's and OW's (I think women do this more than men) identify with a person who is "like" them, and then get on the defensive based on the position they took. It's kinda crazy in a sad way.

[bentnotbroken]

I don't begrudge anyone's happiness. But someone did feel as if I shouldn't have a chance at it with Mr. Messy. I recognize that he was responsible for the pursuit, but she was reponsible for opening her legs and saying sure, why not. My happiness shouldn't come at the expense of another and their's shouldn't come at my expense.

 

I am all for live and let live as long as your living doesn't mess with someone else's life.

[GreenEyedLady]

How can one be supported when they won't be honest about what they are feeling? How can one expect REAL support when so afraid of what might be said to them? What can be done to get past this point?

 

How can one be supported when they give their real feelings and are slammed against the wall for it? I'm not afraid of what will be said, I know what will be said...But I don't have to prescribe to it or believe that it will happen just the way one person said it...And there's already so emotion involved who needs the extra drama from a bunch of strangers?

[bentnotbroken]

How can one be supported when they give their real feelings and are slammed against the wall for it? I'm not afraid of what will be said, I know what will be said...But I don't have to prescribe to it or believe that it will happen just the way one person said it...And there's already so emotion involved who needs the extra drama from a bunch of strangers?

 

 

Exactly. I got slammed for taking care of my chilren from what I believed was a threat. As well as my religious beliefs. It didn't change anything for me. It didn't change who I am or my beliefs. It was the opinion of someone I didn't know and could care less whether they agreed with me or not.

[silktricks]

How can one be supported when they give their real feelings and are slammed against the wall for it? I'm not afraid of what will be said, I know what will be said...But I don't have to prescribe to it or believe that it will happen just the way one person said it...And there's already so emotion involved who needs the extra drama from a bunch of strangers?

 

I guess one of the problems I've had here is that the people who yell the loudest on the OW forum about getting slammed are often the ones who do the most slamming on the infidelity forum when a BS talks about recovery.

 

If a person is willing to slam, then conversely, they need to be able to accept the reciprocle slamming (both sides).

 

Whew, we do have some dented up walls here on LS, don't we?? All that slamming against 'em.

[GreenEyedLady]

I guess one of the problems I've had here is that the people who yell the loudest on the OW forum about getting slammed are often the ones who do the most slamming on the infidelity forum when a BS talks about recovery. If a person is willing to slam, then conversely, they need to be able to accept the reciprocle slamming (both sides). Whew, we do have some dented up walls here on LS, don't we?? All that slamming against 'em.

 

They must be way dented...

 

I pretty much stay out of the infidelity forum unless I think I have something really worthwhile to say...They have their issues to work through, just like we have ours...Everyone needs their space...

[silktricks]

They must be way dented...

 

I pretty much stay out of the infidelity forum unless I think I have something really worthwhile to say...They have their issues to work through, just like we have ours...Everyone needs their space...

 

I've always liked both forums .

 

Like NID, I always have a bit of a problem actually congratulating an OW when their affair partner gets a divorce - I'm not sure why that is - I guess it's because I assume that someone else is hurting.

 

But I am glad you are happy, GEL.

[underpants]

I have given this some thought.

 

I too see more animosity in this area then any other. Otherwise relatively simple issues are drug out into multi page debates because of a basic divide on beliefs.

 

At the core I believe it has to do with hypocrisies.

 

Meaning not too many people are going to suggest that it is a good idea for someone to engage in an affair. Or that an affair will prosper into something more then the very ground upon which it was 'laid'. Those that might be trying to believe in a relationship built on a hypocrisy are more sensitive to those flawed thoughts being shed any light on. Personally, I have read the line "I know it is wrong...but" more here then anywhere else.

 

Support is a subjective term. Some may hand hold and others may give a more tough love version of support.

 

I guess that is the freedom/benefit/risk of posting. You receive all perspectives.

 

Overall I think it is good to hear many perspectives. Yet it can get ugly when one poster attempts to dominate or jack a thread. Then the original point becomes muddled and the thread becomes locked or deleted. In the case of 'new' posters I find that to be especially unfortunate.

[GreenEyedLady]

I've always liked both forums .

 

Like NID, I always have a bit of a problem actually congratulating an OW when their affair partner gets a divorce - I'm not sure why that is - I guess it's because I assume that someone else is hurting. But I am glad you are happy, GEL.

 

I totally get what you're saying...

 

And in all honesty, I feel it, too...It's sad when something ends, it's sad when someone hurts...And the thing is all parties are hurting in some form or another, at some time or another...

 

And all I can hope for is that good ends up coming out of it...I really hope that his W finds someone who will love her and treat her well and be faithful to her...I do not begrudge her happiness or love...I'm sure that she is a very nice person and I'm really sorry (as retarded as that sounds)...It was never my intention to hurt anyone...

 

It makes it all bittersweet...That I found the greatest love I've ever experienced at the expense of someone else...I wish we had not started under the guise of deception, but I nor he can change the past, but we can make a better future through honesty and trust...

 

Thank you for being glad that I am happy...Because I am truly happy...When all the dust settles and some kind of normal starts, I feel sure we'll be ok...

 

Because WHOA IT'S A ROLLER COASTER when the process starts...Moreso than when you're in the thick of the A...I am just glad that everything has settled down now and we are a team...We have plans to make some changes to our routine and to safeguard the R we've fought for so hard...

 

So that's the whole truth...I'm not really an evil OW who is out to steal men or hurt wives...I'm just a regular GEL who fell in love with an amazing, imperfect man who wasn't available at the time...

[bonehead]

viewpoints, plain and simple

[SpanksTheMonkey]

 

 

 

I had all the support I needed and it wasn't a let down. What took me by surprise was the flamers. Of course, I didn't expect people to sugar-coat what they had to say but there is a nicer way to make people see your point - like a few BW did.

 

 

 

.

I don't know it seams no matter how you say anything in this section unless its basically defending the WOs you get met with at the very least defensiveness big time.

 

Now to the OP I would guess that some of the OWs would maybe be afraid to openly say there not happy in the R. Because there afraid of the back lash that may come with that the kinda I told you so mentality.

 

That some here may give them that or they don't want to admit probs after all honestly who wants to admit there R is not happy? Not allot of people most of the time I would think.

 

And finally I find it amazing that any therapist would encourage an A to continue mainly because its not a healthy normal situation to be in most of the time.

 

I would think they would encourage the party evolved to ether work on their marriage or end it if it truly cant be saved but not to encourage their client to continue a extramarital A.

 

After all I thought the hole point of therapists was to help get there clients on the road to a better happier state of mental health.

[Lyssa]

Now to the OP I would guess that some of the OWs would maybe be afraid to openly say there not happy in the R. Because there afraid of the back lash that may come with that the kinda I told you so mentality.

 

That some here may give them that or they don't want to admit probs after all honestly who wants to admit there R is not happy? Not allot of people most of the time I would think.

 

I disagree. I think if you read a lot here - you will come across OW's unhappy stories about the R. I did once or twice stated that I wasn't happy. What do I have to hide? You're all a bunch of strangers but the thing is, when OW do tell others how happy they are - there will be others that come and put them down etc. We are here - OW/former OW - to share our experiences. If there is an OW who wants to get out of it - I will support her.