Wife still sleeps with 11yo son

[sally4sara]

For me, I'm in the states, it's not illegal. It's just wrong emotionally for the child. But it went on so long with my son that he didn't remember ever sleeping alone in his own room.

 

Recently, I had a question about the legality of leaving my son home alone. Just for a short time while I run to the P.O. etc. My in-laws told me it was illegal. So, I found the phone # for the District Office of Child Protective Services & called & asked them.

 

Try that in your area. They didn't ask for any personal information from me.

 

At your son's age, anyone trying to imply he can't mind himself for a few minutes is probably just toying with your head and trying to make you feel threatened. It would be one thing if his development level required constant supervision but if that is not the case they were toying with you. Your in-laws either think you are over protective and like getting your goat or they know about the Child Protection visit and want to keep you paranoid. Were they the ones who called? Did you ever find out who called?

I don't agree with sharing a bed with a kid that old. I don't know what psychological problems manifest from that happening on the regular. I have fallen asleep in my bed with my son (10 years old) while watching a movie; nothing sinister there. I've shared a bed with my mom frequently when we would visit my grand parents without issues over it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is for anyone to know you commonly shared a bed with your son, they would really need to know you well. I think just about everyone has had to bunk up at one point or another with one of their parents (camping, overnight visit somewhere) without anyone getting weird over it. So anyone making that call on you knows you real intimately.

[sally4sara]

I really think there is a midlife crisis going on with my wife. I agree that mentally she has never grown into an adult. She is very much a child when it comes to emotional development.

 

She seems to "fixate" on someone and try to be like them. She has told many times that she doesn't know who she is.

 

When I came home today, after barely speaking to my wife for the last 2 days, I found a note telling me that her and the kids had went out to eat with one of her friends. This friend has 2 kids by 2 different men, been divorced 3 times and currently has a man living with her and her kids. My wife just got her hair cut like this woman, and seems to be dressing like her.

 

She used to have decent friends but this woman is so screwed up I think my wife feels "superior" when she is with her, and somehow gets a self-confidence boost when she is with her.

 

Since she was gone I spent the evening driving around looking for apartments/homes for rent. I swear if I can find something I can afford I am moving out. I love my kids more than anything but I cannot stand to spend any more time with this woman!

 

I feel like I'm abandoning my kids to someone that just can't raise them the way they need to be raised though. RANT--- I am so sick of worrying about this stuff all the time!!---end RANT sorry!

 

I sympathize with you in your situation. Its a toughie indeed!

But I think leaving your kids in the care of someone this dysfunctional is on the irresponsible spin. I realize that if this is your wife's dynamic with the kids, they are going to prefer her company and will make a fuss, but they are kids; they don't know their best interests yet.

Is there any family that can help you pull them out of this. If this could happen what do you think your wife's reaction would be? Would she get into some serious therapy? Would she crack up or get suicidal?

I just keep thinking of what kind of adults your kids will become and it is scary. I'm sure you are scared for them too. What are your plans on trying to correct this once you have moved out?

[Storyrider]

I've been following this, but not quite able to formulate my thoughts. Your household is a matriarchy, ruled by a very unstable, childish matriarch. It is suffering from an imbalance--a lack of maleness, a lack of assertive fatherhood. That part is something you have control over.

 

Your son in particular needs you as a strong male influence. If you move out, you are giving up any small piece of influence you still have. I can understand your desire to get away from your wife, but are you going to take the life raft and leave your son on the sinking ship?

 

I don't mean to be harsh. Sorry if it seems that way.

[Phateless]

This woman is nuts. Send her to a shrink, call child-protective services if you have to, but this has to stop. This kid could be screwed for life. How will he ever find a women with such a warped sense of reality?

[Archer36]

No, but to be safe, I would buy myself a self inflating airbed from Argos for £20. You never know what people could conclude from an 11yo girl sleeping in the same bed as her Dad. Please don't think that I think that about you, but I would exercise caution.

 

 

 

maybe he is too scared of offending or upsetting his mom to say no?

 

Archer- that poem was heartbreaking. If someone wrote that to me I would be devastated, but I would know that I would have to take action- to either change, or to set my partner free...

 

 

Thank you for the kind words sb129 believe it or not I still get tears in my own eyes (and I never cry) when I read it to myself. I sat up one night when I was sleeping on the couch (I told my wife she was NOT sleeping with my son tonight and that I would sleep on the couch so she couldn't have any reason to sleep with him)

I wrote it with a penlight on the back of a phonebook. I was planning on making it into a song but never got around to a chorus (seems kind of pointless now that she's read it and put it aside)

[Archer36]

I've been following this, but not quite able to formulate my thoughts. Your household is a matriarchy, ruled by a very unstable, childish matriarch. It is suffering from an imbalance--a lack of maleness, a lack of assertive fatherhood. That part is something you have control over.

 

Your son in particular needs you as a strong male influence. If you move out, you are giving up any small piece of influence you still have. I can understand your desire to get away from your wife, but are you going to take the life raft and leave your son on the sinking ship?

 

I don't mean to be harsh. Sorry if it seems that way.

 

Not harsh at all Storyrider. I guess after 18 years I've really "felt out" the way my wife responds to a lot of "manly demands". She never responded well at all and I believe I know why. She had a very messed up father. He was bipolar and verbally and physically abusive to her mother her whole life. They finally divorced.

 

I think everytime I get demanding, she sees her Father and gets completly impossible to deal with.

 

I can be very assertive (I teach high school and coach as well) when I want to, but its never worked on her. I guess my knowing what is probably going through that damaged psyche of hers has always made me too tender with her.

 

I think she would go to therapy if I set it up out of town (small town, loose lips).

 

I sometimes feel (if I left) that the 1/2 time I would have with the kids in a setting of my own would be better for them than trying to work "around" their mom while I'm here.

 

She has often said that the world would be better off if she had not been born, but then I swear she acts as though she never said anything of the sort.

Can "bipolar disorder" be inherited?!?

[sally4sara]

I don't know if Bi-polar has genetic heredity chances or not. It is a chemical imbalance, so it can happen to someone without a family history of it thru: drug use and hormone fluxuation (ex BF's mom became Bi-polar after conceiving her 4th child). I guess anything that has an effect on the brain's chemistry could trigger it.

[norajane]

You're a coach? Then coach your son on what is and is not appropriate for parent/child relationships. Make him a part of YOUR team, and give him the guidance he so desperately needs.

 

Even if your wife won't go to therapy, your son needs to, and maybe your daughter. I would suggest they go, because I cannot imagine how messed up those kids must be in their head with they dynamics in your family all these years. An 11 year old boy who needs mommy in bed with him is not an emotionally healthy child. Just imagine how needy and clingy he will become if he ever falls in love and transfers his mommy issues to his gf.

Edited February 23, 2008 by norajane

[Archer36]

You're a coach? Then coach your son on what is and is not appropriate for parent/child relationships. Make him a part of YOUR team, and give him the guidance he so desperately needs.

 

Even if your wife won't go to therapy, your son needs to, and maybe your daughter. I would suggest they go, because I cannot imagine how messed up those kids must be in their head with they dynamics in your family all these years. An 11 year old boy who needs mommy in bed with him is not an emotionally healthy child. Just imagine how needy and clingy he will become if he ever falls in love and transfers his mommy issues to his gf.

 

Short of physically restraining (and physically going to jail!) I don't know how else to handle him begging for mom to lay down with him so he can sleep, and mom dying to do just that. I know its easy to type, but in practice... thats another thing.

I admit I feel sorry for him too. I hate to embarass him by continually pointing it out, but better a little embarassment now than what will happen to the poor boy later I suppose.

 

Nothing to lose here, when they lay down together tonight I'm going to go in there, flick on the light and explain to the both that their arrangement is not proper or healthy, then walk out and see what happens.

 

Prediction- the boy will cry, mom will pout. She will come out and sleep on the couch (4' from his room) then end up in the bed with him in the morning because he will come looking for her.

 

We'll see!

[whichwayisup]

Tell them both that you're going to make a Dr's appointment so ALL of you together can speak to the doctor and find out ways that your son can fall asleep on his own without mom being there. He now has her as his crutch, and it's a habit that needs to be broken. Hopefully with the help of the Dr he'll convince your wife that how she is acting is WRONG.

[norajane]

Short of physically restraining (and physically going to jail!) I don't know how else to handle him begging for mom to lay down with him so he can sleep, and mom dying to do just that. I know its easy to type, but in practice... thats another thing.

I admit I feel sorry for him too. I hate to embarass him by continually pointing it out, but better a little embarassment now than what will happen to the poor boy later I suppose.

 

Nothing to lose here, when they lay down together tonight I'm going to go in there, flick on the light and explain to the both that their arrangement is not proper or healthy, then walk out and see what happens.

 

Prediction- the boy will cry, mom will pout. She will come out and sleep on the couch (4' from his room) then end up in the bed with him in the morning because he will come looking for her.

 

We'll see!

 

I know it's easier said than done, but you have to start somewhere.

 

I don't think that going into the room while they're in bed...ugh, that just even sounds wrong...will do anything lasting. Obviously, your son wants to hide it from his friends so he knows it's not right. Your wife...well...she's the one who made it happen. So, neither of them is currently able to make the necessary changes.

 

What I meant by being his coach...what do you do with the kids you coach? You help them gain confidence in themselves by learning what they are good at and helping them get better at it, helping them overcome their fears and weaknesses, and teaching them to feel good when they give it their best shot even if they don't win. And practice, practice, practice.

 

So, spend a lot more time with your son and find out what he's interested in and good at...sports or art or science fiction or whatever. Help him gain confidence in himself. Find out what his fears are - that will give you insights into why he needs mommy in his bed at night. Help him overcome his dependence by gaining confidence in himself, AND by helping him separate from mom by getting more involved in things completely outside of mom, AND help him see you as a guide and a father and not the monster trying to take his mother away from him.

 

It's not a quick process, but it seems long overdue!

 

And, perhaps it would do some good for you to speak to a child counselor and ask for guidance yourself on how to deal with this situation. Your wife needs to be part of that discussion, but if she won't do it, YOU need to do it with or without her.

 

This boy is 11. Very, very soon, he'll be hitting puberty. And THAT is going to be a huge problem if he still has mommy in bed with him when his wet dreams start.

Edited February 23, 2008 by norajane

[Archer36]

My son and I are really close. We do lots of things together and I have a good read on his interests.

Last night before bedtime, he came and sat with me while we watched TV. I told him "Son, you know I love you?" he said "Yes Dad", I said "I don't want to embarsss you but is there a specific reason you still want your mom to sleep with you?"

 

He said there wasn't and that he wasn't afraid of anything. I asked him why he had been asking his mother to sleep with at night and he said he HADN'T been asking her to...

 

Thing is my wife had been saying that he had asked her to sleep with him each night.

 

I waited until my wife went in his room with him last night and I went to tell him goodnight. I asked him (with his mom right there) if he wanted his mom to sleep with him and he said he didn't need her to

 

She just put her head down in her hands and wouldn't look up.

 

I said "Then I guess theres no reason for her to sleep in here". He agreed.

 

I told my wife I was sleeping on the couch and she could have the bed.

 

She hasn't spoken to me since, but my boy did sleep alone last night. If I can get him to start denying her a spot I think I can finally leave in good conscience.

[Chrome Barracuda]

My son and I are really close. We do lots of things together and I have a good read on his interests.

Last night before bedtime, he came and sat with me while we watched TV. I told him "Son, you know I love you?" he said "Yes Dad", I said "I don't want to embarsss you but is there a specific reason you still want your mom to sleep with you?"

 

He said there wasn't and that he wasn't afraid of anything. I asked him why he had been asking his mother to sleep with at night and he said he HADN'T been asking her to...

 

Thing is my wife had been saying that he had asked her to sleep with him each night.

 

I waited until my wife went in his room with him last night and I went to tell him goodnight. I asked him (with his mom right there) if he wanted his mom to sleep with him and he said he didn't need her to

 

She just put her head down in her hands and wouldn't look up.

 

I said "Then I guess theres no reason for her to sleep in here". He agreed.

 

I told my wife I was sleeping on the couch and she could have the bed.

 

She hasn't spoken to me since, but my boy did sleep alone last night. If I can get him to start denying her a spot I think I can finally leave in good conscience.

 

 

Wow, do you think something is seriously wong with your wife?

 

Do you think she might have sexual feelings towards your son?

 

As tough as it means to ask I have to.

 

Or does she have serious issues with how she was raised. She needs help you need to get her counciling ASAP. and if she refuses to go, tell her I have a divorce lawer on standby and inform her she will not be getting the kids whatsoever.

 

I'm sorry but it's all coming to this, you might as well face it head on.

[whichwayisup]

I waited until my wife went in his room with him last night and I went to tell him goodnight. I asked him (with his mom right there) if he wanted his mom to sleep with him and he said he didn't need her to

 

Good for you to dealing with this head-on. Your son now knows he can come to you if mommy tries to sleep in her bed again since he isn't asking her to.

She just put her head down in her hands and wouldn't look up.

 

She's embarressed. I doubt this is a sexual issue, this is a control issue. Her baby boy is growing up and doesn't need her like he used to. This is the same reason why some women breast feed their babies past 3 years old - Control and not wanting to let go...Let the child grow up.

 

This is something that needs to be discussed with the family dr, just incase she has some sort of depression going on, meds can help too. Either way your wife knows she isn't going to be sleeping in there anymore and that you'll be watching. It's her problem and she's going to have to open up about it either with you or in therapy.

 

I said "Then I guess theres no reason for her to sleep in here". He agreed.

Fantastic. Even more so that your son agreed.

 

Another thing, don't make your wife feel bad, tell her (and tell your son to tell her as well) that he still loves her and not sleeping in the same bed doesn't change that.

 

She hasn't spoken to me since, but my boy did sleep alone last night. If I can get him to start denying her a spot I think I can finally leave in good conscience.

Leaving isn't the answer. Getting your wife professional help is something that has to happen first, then go from there.

[norajane]

Last night before bedtime, he came and sat with me while we watched TV. I told him "Son, you know I love you?" he said "Yes Dad", I said "I don't want to embarsss you but is there a specific reason you still want your mom to sleep with you?"

 

He said there wasn't and that he wasn't afraid of anything. I asked him why he had been asking his mother to sleep with at night and he said he HADN'T been asking her to...

 

I'm really glad to hear this. However, this totally does not match up with what you've been saying:

 

Short of physically restraining (and physically going to jail!) I don't know how else to handle him begging for mom to lay down with him so he can sleep

 

Nothing to lose here, when they lay down together tonight I'm going to go in there, flick on the light and explain to the both that their arrangement is not proper or healthy, then walk out and see what happens.

 

Prediction- the boy will cry, mom will pout. She will come out and sleep on the couch (4' from his room) then end up in the bed with him in the morning because he will come looking for her.

 

 

Is this the first time you have asked him about their sleeping arrangements?

 

She hasn't spoken to me since, but my boy did sleep alone last night. If I can get him to start denying her a spot I think I can finally leave in good conscience.

Don't make his mother's behavior your son's responsibility!! She needs to deal with this issue - your son should not be responsible for making her deal with it. YOU should, since it is your son's health that hangs in the balance. YOU are the responsible adult here - it's YOUR job to protect your son.

 

Do not leave your child alone in that position.

Edited February 24, 2008 by norajane

[Archer36]

I'm really glad to hear this. However, this totally does not match up with what you've been saying:

 

 

 

 

Is this the first time you have asked him about their sleeping arrangements?

 

Don't make his mother's behavior your son's responsibility!! She needs to deal with this issue - your son should not be responsible for making her deal with it. YOU should, since it is your son's health that hangs in the balance. YOU are the responsible adult here - it's YOUR job to protect your son.

 

Do not leave your child alone in that position.

 

 

Yes it is the first time in close to a year that I have asked my son about how he feels. The last time he was so upset that I was actually worried about pushing him away from me.

 

I was very glad to get the answer from him actually!

 

I've left dealing with the sleeping problem to my wife too long. She obviously is not going to see to the situation, as she gets an emotionial fulfillment from it that she is not willing to give up on her own.

 

Hearing from my son that he did not need her to sleep with him was just what she needed. That is the excuse she has been using for a long time and thankfully it seems the boy has matured enough to realize that enough is enough.

 

I'm glad I had the talk with him. He has been acting better ever since (more confident) and she slept alone again last night.

[Archer36]

Well it looks like my boy was just trying to put on a good show for me. He tried to stay overnight with one of his friends last Sat, and ended up calling for his mom to come and get him at 11:30.

 

She was so relieved I think.

 

She still says that she will always sleep with her children, my son or daughter, if the ask. I ask her "When is too old? When would you finally see that this situation is wrong?" She only says that she doesn't know.

 

In her mind she is being a good mom, but I cannot make her understand that a good mom doesn't destroy her marriage by refusing to see the light. A good mom lets her children grow up to be individuals.

 

 

I've been reading a good book called "Too good to Leave, and Too Bad to Stay, by Mira Kirshenbaum.

 

It outlines a series of questions that help you decide if you should stay in your relationship.

 

The questions really get to the heart of "Should I stay or shoudl I go". So far, it looks like "Go" is the answer to most.

 

At this point I'm just worried about my children. I actually considered calling social services to see if they have any programs that may be of benefit.

[sb129]

Have you considered asking either a counsellor or social services(tread carefully there) whether there is someone with some expertise in this area that you can talk to? Like a child or family psychologist maybe?

 

Even if you googled the topic you may be able to find some papers on it.

 

I honestly don't have any more suggestions, and I am not qualified to give you the kind of expert professional help that I think you need- this can't be an uncommon problem.

 

I would be inclined to stop worrying about your wife- she is a grown woman and makes her own choices, but I agree that your child is at risk of developing some unhealthy (if he hasn't already) psychological issues as a result of your wifes behaviour, and something needs to be done.

 

If leaving is going to be what makes your wife sit up and take notice, then maybe it isn't such a bad idea? I am no expert though, and others may disagree.

[Archer36]

I actually had hoped that I had my wife talked into leaving. What is so strange is that I don't feel all that sad about it, just numb.

 

I'm sure that may change if she did actually go, but right now I think it would be a relief.

 

I scheduled a visit with a marriage therapist, after my wife told me she would go about 2 weeks ago, then when the date came up, she was not willing to go.

 

I think she is afraid that the therapist will tell her the same thing I've been telling her, and she will have to face up to the fact that she is in the wrong on this issue.

 

Thanks for the post sb129, its just nice to know that someone is out their listening sometimes... I appreciate it.

[norajane]

You start going to the marriage therapist by yourself if she won't go with you. Not only will that help you clarify your thoughts about this marriage, but she may start going once she sees that you have every intention of going without her. It will kill her wondering what you're talking about with the therapist.

 

As for your son, find a child psychologist and go speak with him on your own. Again, I don't think you want your wife in your son's bed when puberty hits and his wet dreams start. That will mess him up in a BIG way.

[sb129]

You start going to the marriage therapist by yourself if she won't go with you. Not only will that help you clarify your thoughts about this marriage, but she may start going once she sees that you have every intention of going without her. It will kill her wondering what you're talking about with the therapist.

 

As for your son, find a child psychologist and go speak with him on your own. Again, I don't think you want your wife in your son's bed when puberty hits and his wet dreams start. That will mess him up in a BIG way.

 

NoraJanes parrot (me) agrees with her.

 

You need the backup of some professionals, whether your W is there or not. If your marriage counsellor and the child psychologist back you up, and offer you strategies to work on, if your wife challenges them, you have another opportunity to ask her to go with you so that she can hear it for herself.

[sb129]

PS- of course there is always someone listening. I find your situation very sad, and I really hope it gets resolved.

 

I also was really touched by that poem you wrote your W, and can see that you really care about your kids.

[clandestinidad]

I might be slightly paranoid about this because someone in my family messed with me sexually when I was little, but I feel like I must say this...

 

Studies have found that a very large percentage of women molest children. I think women do it more than men, actually. Usually the women are not reported as frequently b/c of many reasons. Your wife may have been having a sexual relationship with your son for years. The reason I think it's plausible is because she is SO obviously emotionally involved with him...like she seems to act like she is married to HIM. She is getting her emotional, and perhaps sexual needs met by him. Plus, you mentioned that "something happened to her" when she was younger. That something, which might have been sexual, is very likely to be repeated by her. Sexual abusers were most often abused themselves. If you leave before this situation is resolved your son will suffer more for the rest of his life.

 

Can you just imagine everything that will come of this? If they are having a sexual relationship he will need years and years of therapy just to begin coping and understanding the situation and how wrong it is. If it's been going on since he was little, he will not know that it is wrong...it's all he's ever known.

 

If he ever grows to have any semblance of independence, and has a girlfriend/boyfriend your wife will most likely freak out. What if he ever gets married?! My point is, neither of them will EVER be able to have 'normal' healthy relationships if this bedding together and dependence on one another continues. Don't you want your son to be healthy? If you want to save him and help guide him as he grows up, then you will do ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING to put a stop to this!

 

You all must see a therapist. You must make sure your wife does not go into his room. Home Improvement stores sell little cheap plastic doorbells that you can put on his door. The two sides stick to the edge of the door and frame, and there is a part that plugs into an outlet in another area of the house. I would put that part in your room. When the door is opened, the part in the outlet dings quite loudly and will wake you up. This way, your wife won't be able to sneak into your sons room while you're sleeping. (make sure its right beside you so she can't unplug it without waking you up)

 

You might even go so far as to lock your son in his room at night. This is basically what we do for toddlers so they can't get out of their rooms and get hurt. For toddlers they sell doorknob covers, but since your son is 11 he would need an actual handle with a lock requiring a key. I really do not think there is anything wrong with this. Think about it...you know your son has eaten, showered, is safe and ready for bed. For his safety and well being, his door needs to be locked with a key that you sleep with. (your wife must be unable to get the key) He is fine in there. Its not like you're locking him inside a cage, its his room and he's supposed to be sleeping. This will prevent your wife and son from getting together.

 

If the two of them are going to act like dependent babies, you have to treat them like they are. You can't deal with a sick immature person the same way you'd deal with a completely healthy mature person. It doesn't work that way, they won't understand it. You have to meet them at their level. You have to be the strong person here. You have to help these two realize that they're 2 independent people, and they must be separated. They are not going to separate on their own at this point, so it has to be done by you. As ugly as it might get. Your son needs to be free to develop physically and emotionally, and you seem to be the only person capable of trying to make that happen.

 

Even if this isn't a sexual issue, it's most certainly an emotional one. You're wife does not have an emotional or sexual relationship with you. She is trying to have one with your son, and refusing to change it. I would not be saying any of this if you had made any mention of the time you spend together, or sex that you have, or any sort of intimacy. She is not intimate with you...she is placing that role on your son.

[Archer36]

Thank you for that informative post clandestinidad. The thoughts of abuse have certainly crossed my mind. Having had my son sleep in between my wife and I for 9 years (yes I foolishly put up with that long, complaining all the time, always being the "bad" guy) I am 99.9% certain there is no physical abuse taking place,

BUT,

I know there IS emotional abuse taking place. Even if it is not so evident in my son right now, I'm sure that his mother using him to fulfill her emotional needs will affect him for years, if not for the rest of his life.

 

In all fairness, and part of what makes this so difficult, is that my wife loves our children, and in her mind she is doing what she should do as his mother.

 

Thanks again for your post clandestindad, I can see this subject is a close one to you. I'm sorry to hear about your previous experience.

[Archer36]

Just an update... The W and I separated in May. It has been really tough on the kids, but I'm very happy now. I know it may sound wrong of me to say that but I feel so relieved. The S2BX was on a date 2 days after she moved out (and it was with a guy who lives 8 hours away) so I have to believe that there was something going on there before.

 

I met a great lady on match.com in only a few days and its been so refreshing spending time with someone who is actually interested in me.

 

For those of you out there going through a tough time, know that there can be a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Now if I can just get my 18yo daughter to accept the fact that I am dating.... she is NOT ok with it....

 

Best wishes to everyone.