Should I tell her husband?

[Owl]

Why is it Cagney's responsibility to tell the husband? He was involved...yes. So was she. He is no longer in her life because she "moved on."

 

Because he intentionally participated in that betrayal. And he's done nothing to 'make amends' for that.

 

He didn't marry her H...granted. But he still KNOWINGLY maintained this affair for SEVEN YEARS.

 

Her H is a victim of his choice to conduct that affair with her.

 

Admitting his part of the affair is at least a step in the right direction...morally at least.

 

I'm not demeaning him or calling him names...but I still feel that he should tell her H.

[JamesM]

And an anonymous letter is going to implicate him how?

 

Did the husband already know that his wife was once involved with Cagney? Would this letter only say that the woman has a new OM, or would it imply that she was involved with Cagney anonymously? Do you think it is quite possible that the H will seek out both OMs? And if he only goes after the new OM, is not Cagney responsible if this new OM is injured as a result of violence?

 

Just some thoughts. I think we all let our own past experiences color our opinions while dismissing points that are different in Cagney's situation.

[EnigmaXOXO]

Deriding his manhood and making him feel like he is morally or legally bound to reveal this woman's affairs simply because he was involved with her, IMO, is not correct.

 

I agree.

 

And I’m also impressed with the amount of patience, intelligence, and dignity by which he handled so many of the different personalities and perspectives presented here. In spite of whatever opinions we might have on this particular subject.

 

You have to respect a MAN with the backbone and wherewithal to carry himself like that.

[Darth Vader]

It just happens. Especially if you live in a small town. People might not tell you directly, but they gossip and eventually, somehow, it gets back to you.

 

In my case, it was 13 years of my life wasted, and I'm not too pleased with the people that kept their mouths shut. As far as I'm concern, they could have helped me save those 13 years and didn't.

 

 

Ouch, I really feel for you. That's terrible that no one had the sense to tell you.

[Darth Vader]

Actually you DID make that reference.

You said "Is your counselor a woman? That is not a common thing for a counselor to say, except to keep their meal tic- I mean, their client safe!"

 

That's a clear reference that if it's a woman, then her motive would be keeping her meal ticket safe.

 

I understand that it's a weird thing ... but that's what you wrote. If you didn't mean it, or mis-stated yourself, that's one thing, but you can't un-write what you wrote.

 

So either you didn't mean to write that ???

Or you did mean it but now you don't want to stand behind what you wrote ???

 

 

I was asking about if the counselor was a man or woman, thinking that a woman may be more likely to make that kind of statement, rather than a man........ I know I didn't originally include that, but, that's where I was going with the thing. The meal ticket part was separate from the first, as you know, it could be either man or woman.

 

Anyway, enough about that!

 

We've given you some Ideas as how not to confront duped hubby face to face. Seriously though, if it were you who was going through this crap, wouldn't you want to know, to get out from under it?

Edited February 28, 2008 by Darth Vader

[Darth Vader]

Physical harm is a very definite possibility. That's already been mentioned in this thread.

 

He has been violent in the past. And I think it's a definite possibility that this could trigger some dangerous reaction.

 

But even still. there are many issues in this decsion and no ONE possibility has outweighed all the others, yet.

 

 

That's why we suggested a way so you don't have to do it in person, as far as being violent, he'll be so when he does find out. Most likely, his wife will be worried about taking care of herself(like that would be hard), she'd really not care where the info came from!

[Cagney]

Seriously though, if it were you who was going through this crap, wouldn't you want to know, to get out from under it?

 

Yes. I would want to know! I really would. And it would hurt even more if other's knew and didn't tell me. I understand that. A big part of me wants to just "let it rip" so to speak.

 

I think about it every day.

[MakeLemonade]

Even sending an anon letter won't guarantee anything. Who is to say she won't spill the identities when she wants to give her violent H someone ELSE to focus his hostilities on. Considering she is always out for #1, I don't think she would have any problem coming up with names, and whatever other info he wanted under pressure.

 

However, I would think the baby-daddy would be much more in danger than the affair that she had but is over guy (you), and I also agree that the H deserves to know. He shouldn't have to be duped into raising some other guys kid with a tramp that could give a shyt less about him.

 

You just have to man up I guess and take the chances of something bad happening. I agree, better to force the anger out of him now, than after another 10 years go by and he has wasted more life and then finds out he has been loving and raising another man's child for 9+ years.

 

Geesh, what a nightmare this is. Ultimately, just be so very glad you are rid of her.

[twice_shy]

Why is it Cagney's responsibility to tell the husband?

 

I don't think it is his place to tell because he is no better than she is.

 

But dammit someone needs to let this poor husband what kind of tramp he is married to.

[Cagney]

Even sending an anon letter won't guarantee anything. Who is to say she won't spill the identities when she wants to give her violent H someone ELSE to focus his hostilities on. Considering she is always out for #1, I don't think she would have any problem coming up with names, and whatever other info he wanted under pressure.

 

 

Thank you.

 

The anon scenario is absolutely out. It's based on the assumption that everyone is too stupid to figure things out. They'd both have to be dumb! But they're both very smart!

 

I've read about this anon scenario here - many times, and I wonder if anyone, suggesting it, has even thought though the scenario.

Edited February 29, 2008 by Cagney

[stillafool]

If he chooses not to do so because he feels that he may feel some violent repercussions, then I say don't do it. We all know that even in domestic disputes, the policeman is in danger if he tries to interfere. Why? Because two people fighting suddenly realign with one another against the new perceived enemy.

 

So, it is with Cagney. If the husband suddenly decides his wife is worth keeping, he may take out his anger on the two OMs. Then Cagney is on his own and no one will be there defending him.

 

So, while I think he should tell, I also understand if he thinks violence will result. Then I say, use your own judgment.

 

Deriding his manhood and making him feel like he is morally or legally bound to reveal this woman's affairs simply because he was involved with her, IMO, is not correct.

 

Well Cagney was the first one who said he wanted to tell the h. Then it seems after someone mentioned he might put his self in danger from the H, it seems Cagney didn't want to tell anymore. If Cagney were that worried about violence from the H he should have been just as worried when the W was screwing around with him rather than the new guy. Why be afraid now?

[Cagney]

Well Cagney was the first one who said he wanted to tell the h. Then it seems after someone mentioned he might put his self in danger from the H, it seems Cagney didn't want to tell anymore. If Cagney were that worried about violence from the H he should have been just as worried when the W was screwing around with him rather than the new guy. Why be afraid now?

 

It's not that way. I've known all along that he has been physically abusive with her and that he has a dark side. In fact I've thought all along that he has a sort Rasputin like hold over her which was ONE of the many reasons she could never develop the courage to face him and end the marriage. She always viewed a "baby" or "getting busted" as something that would force the end, and now I know (as I suspected) that she would then hide behind the safety of a phone with the ability/control to hang up whenever the conversation turns unpleasant.

 

I was (all along) willing to deal with things if the truth came out, or if she had the courage to face him and end things. I was even willing to face him. But all along, I would walk wide corners around buildings and in passage ways, thinking that one day he'll be there. He'd have to be close though because he can't move fast. Or maybe have a weapon.

 

I was largely willing to do ANYTHING to have her and wrongly viewed this as some kind of star crossed affair where two people were locked into some seemingly impossible situation that would eventually be OK because true love would eventually prevail.

 

Pretty much f-d up huh? How did I get that far gone?

 

Ever see the movie "The Mexican"? with Brad Pitt and Julia Roberts?

The question was "When two people really love each other but can't seem to get it together ... when should you say, 'enough is enough'?"

 

The correct answer in the movie, of course, was, "Never"!

Edited February 29, 2008 by Cagney

[mental_traveller]

You should tell him, because if he doesn't find out, he might contract herpes, genital warts, syphillis, or even HIV thanks to his wife's unprotected sex outside marriage. Also he deserves not to be wasting his life with an unfaithful spouse - he has the right to choose to leave or stay based on the truth, rather than being defrauded for 7 years gone and who knows how long in future.

 

Also, how do you know this woman will leave? She may lie to the husband and try to pass the kid off as his. Imagine the monumental evil this would be, for both the husband and kid.

 

The only reason not to tell is that the husband may seriously injure or kill his wife and/or you. You've wussed out for 7 years already, so my guess is you will wuss out again. Well, at least you realise what you did was wrong.

[mental_traveller]

I just want to make sure that I'm not cowering behind some reverse rational like, "be a better man by keeping the secret", or "what he doesn't know won't hurt him".

 

In this day and age, what he doesn't know might not only hurt him, but could be a death sentence. Not informing someone their spouse is cheating, is like not informing someone that their brake lines have been cut. You might as well inject him with STD viruses yourself.

[twice_shy]

Ouch, I really feel for you. That's terrible that no one had the sense to tell you.

 

Ah, no need to feel bad for me. The good part is, she is out of my life and I have moved on to greener pastures.

[mental_traveller]

I appreciate the replies to my OP. It's not easy to be objective after this whole thing.

 

There is still another thing that's nagging at me though:

 

After 7 years of a double secret life, lieing to EVERYONE that I care about, and getting away with it too, it's like how do I suddenly become honest again? All these years, I wrongly assumed that we would finally have her marriage ended, then the two of us, together, would deal with our community and the lies we have fed to our friends and loved ones.

 

But now I'm on my own! To deal with this thing of just who the hell am I anyway? I know what I've done. But no one that I care about knows ... maybe they don't even know the real me.

 

What, just decide that "I'll be honest from now on! I promise, I really promise! ??? It's become part of my make up and it's not cool.

 

Can a person just change like that? And still get a pass on what the real truth was all those past years? It doesn't seem real! I'm not talking about some kind of religious confession and gain some free pass on absolution. I mean, why not just tell the whole truth and let my friends and loved ones make an informed decision about me. Maybe they'll all decide to keep me or maybe not, but it'll be the truth and no more lies.

 

I've forgotten to care about those people, and focused only on winning her! Now I care about them.

 

And It's not just other people. It's me-myself too. I think I can forgive myself and move on ... but I want to make sure I never lie again.

 

f-d up huh!

 

Well that's only to be expected, it's one of the downsides of dodgy behaviour. Once you break the taboo on lies and deceit, it becomes easier to do each time. Tell me, do you find it easier to lie now than before you started the affair?

 

It is notoriously difficult to change ingrained habits and patterns of behaviour. I doubt you will be able to change overnight, and the odds are that you will never change - most people don't. Think of someone you know who is habitually late, or untidy, or whatever - do they change, or have they remained the same way for 10-20 years or more? So, what makes you think you will change? Most likely you will carry this attitude for the rest of your life.

[mental_traveller]

Of course I'd want to know!

 

What's the universal first law of all systems of morality? Treat people like you would want to be treated.

 

It really is hilarious sometimes how people will try to rationalize behaviour they know to be wrong.

[mental_traveller]

I am seeing a therapist and the advice is not to tell. I

 

Your therapist does not have the husband's interest at heart, since the husband is not paying him. You are paying him, so he is going to give the advice he thinks is best for you.

 

From a purely selfish point of view, it makes sense for you to keep quiet. From the point of view of basic fairness and morality, you need to tell.

 

Ask your therapist "If you were in this husband's shoes, would you want to know?"

[mental_traveller]

I understaood it as the beneifit of the counseling will be set back.

That is, if I'm serious about getting help, then that's one thing I won't do.

 

I understood that it would drag me backward into more high drama and even trauma. That ALL connection/contact must cease, if I'm serious about getting over this. ANY connection, good or bad, is still just another connection.

 

Because of course the self-interest of the guilty party (you) outweight the *rights* of the innocent third party. What a charming morality your therapist has, sounds just about right for you.

[mental_traveller]

Actually, knowing that 60% of people in the world are married to someone like this isn’t just sad ... but enough to make your skin crawl. Fortunately, Cagney stands a better chance of no longer being one of them ... or getting ‘stuck’ with this particular individual if he stays with the program and untangles his head from all the drama and angst rather than creating even more for himself.

 

NOT his baby to assume responsibility for. Let the real father of that child knock on the husband’s door and declare ownership if folks are looking for a martyr to step up and take responsibility for the mess this woman has gotten herself into. NOT Cagney’s marriage to get himself mixed up in the first place (never was). Their problems or that woman’s problems are NOT his responsibility to fix ... NOR what his councilor has been hired to do. If these folks need help via therapy ... than they are as free as Cagney (or anyone else) to seek help all on their own. Just like he did.

 

Meanwhile, it’s understandable why people who have been burned by folks like this in the past are frothing at the bit to see one of them finally get their comeuppance. I won’t even exclude myself from that group. However, I think it’s important to remember that revenge is a poor substitute for justice. In Cagney’s case (sorry Cagney) ... he knew for seven years that the woman he was involved with was married to someone else. And in all that time, nothing about their situation ever changed. He agree. He accepted. He made that choice all on his own. (Even if his little head was doing all the thinking for his big one.) And for seven years he was just a guilty of bamboozling that woman’s husband as she was. Didn’t care then ... and honestly doesn’t care all that much about the husband now aside from wanting revenge on someone for having gotten some of the same treatment he gave. NOT Cagney’s place to start behaving like her jealous husband since he isn’t nor ever was. And it’s absolutely ridiculous for others to try and use his anger against him and try to spin it as some sort of heroic act of honesty, courage, or paying penance for past misdeeds and “guilt trip” him into shooting his own foot off.

 

Better that Cagney count his blessings that he’s finally been extricated from this mess ... even if it took a swift boot to the ego to get him there. Seven years is a long time to spend conditioning yourself for this kind of relationship dysfunction, and it may take just as long for him to get his head clear and finally learn what a healthy relationship and partner is suppose to be all about. Unfortunately , he’s unlikely find that on this particular forum.

 

Meanwhile, no need for him to walk back into the fire so that others can seek their own vengeance vicariously through him. HIS life ... his choice ... his consequences to accept and eventually come to terms with.

 

I.e. if you see someone being victimised and you can stop it, why bother? Just walk on by, none of your business, keep your nose clean and your head down, right? Someone drowning - sucks to be them. Little old lady getting mugged - not my problem, dearie. Husband being cheated on for 7 years and about to be victim of paternity fraud - keep quiet, it's more trouble than it's worth.

 

How would you feel if you were on the receiving end of that treatment? Let's say you get married and have kids, and your husband is a serial adulterer. How would you feel if everyone kept their mouth shut, if your friends, your family never told you that he was out porking sluts for years without protection, and had then knocked one up?

 

I guess you would say "I can understand why you kept quiet - after all, it wasn't your problem".

[Cagney]

Well that's only to be expected, it's one of the downsides of dodgy behaviour. Once you break the taboo on lies and deceit, it becomes easier to do each time. Tell me, do you find it easier to lie now than before you started the affair?

 

It is notoriously difficult to change ingrained habits and patterns of behaviour. I doubt you will be able to change overnight, and the odds are that you will never change - most people don't. Think of someone you know who is habitually late, or untidy, or whatever - do they change, or have they remained the same way for 10-20 years or more? So, what makes you think you will change? Most likely you will carry this attitude for the rest of your life.

 

Yes, it is easier to lie now. Too easy. I don't like myself for turning into a liar. I've already said this in my posts.

 

That's at the heart of why I first posed the question in my OP.

 

Will telling the husband really help me this way.

Even if it gets her hurt?

[EnigmaXOXO]

How would you feel if you were on the receiving end of that treatment? Let's say you get married and have kids, and your husband is a serial adulterer. How would you feel if everyone kept their mouth shut, if your friends, your family never told you that he was out porking sluts for years without protection, and had then knocked one up?

 

So now we’re going to split the fine hairs between morals and ethics? Good grief, at this rate the thread will have a longer shelf life than Cagney’s affair.

 

I think the operative words here are “family” and “friends”. To this man, Cagney is neither. He’s not even a concerned stranger. He’s not even the father of that baby. And this isn’t even Cagney’s affair we’re talking about.

 

While my own personal ‘morals’ dictate that I would never, ever do this to another person be they someone else’s partner or my own ... And “yes” Me, Myself and I would benefit greatly by having this information ... I would not expect that bombshell to be dropped by anyone other than someone who genuinely had my best interests at heart. Ethically, I just CAN NOT (no matter how you twist it) find the greater good in a vindictive action that is clearly meant to cause everyone involved further harm. And THAT’S what this obsessive bunny-boiler nonsense is really all about.

 

So I think I’ve explained and re-explained my position now, ad nauseam. I assure you, it was well thought out taking EVERYONE in this situation into consideration, including the husband, AND the professional coaching Cagney says he is already receiving. I didn’t even refrain from speaking frankly about my own personal opinion regarding how I felt about the whole situation. Even having been in a situation somewhat similar to the hypothetical you presented. And it still hasn’t changed.

 

Look, I understand the pain that some of you are still trying to work through. I’ve been there. So it isn’t surprising to me (at all) that folks get so angry and worked up over this stuff. As a matter of fact, I’ve seen worse than this from others during the fallout of an affair. But I don’t think at this point its very productive to continue engaging in an heated debates with each just so we can all drive our points home one more time. Better that those who feel morally obligated to step up and get involved find that man and go knock on his door themselves, rather then send one of the perps back in to the juggler and put him out of his misery.

 

As for Cagney, I think he has been brow-beaten enough. He seems fairly intelligent and capable of sifting though all the perspectives here to come up with his own conclusions. With any luck, this whole thing won’t cost him an additional four more months of couch time.

[Darth Vader]

Thank you.

 

The anon scenario is absolutely out. It's based on the assumption that everyone is too stupid to figure things out. They'd both have to be dumb! But they're both very smart!

 

I've read about this anon scenario here - many times, and I wonder if anyone, suggesting it, has even thought though the scenario.

 

 

Have you thought about her hubby coming after you in say 5 - 10 years from now, when he does find out? I'd move to another state if I were you, and just before you leave you drop the anonymous letter in the mailbox, outta sight, outta mind. In the long run it would be better for you.

Edited March 1, 2008 by Darth Vader

[Cagney]

Have you thought about her hubby coming after you in say 5 - 10 years from now, when he does find out? I'd move to another state if I were you, and just before you leave you drop the anonymous letter in the mailbox, outta sight, outta mind. In the long run it would be better for you.

 

I appreciate this Darth.

 

Yes. I have thought about this and it's one of the many reasons for getting out in front of all of it now.

 

Good reaons for telling:

-Let the husband know all the truth, which he deserves to know

-Get it over with, face consequenses, let chips fall where they fall.

-Slam down a hard wall between her and me.

-Finally have some self respect.

-My friends who then decide to still love me, will know who they're loving.

-My friends who decide to hate me - well, they deserve the truth too.

-Stop her from getting away with stuff (wait, that won't stop anything)

 

Sick or chicken-sh*t reasons for telling.

- revenge

- reach out across the universe and make my presense felt in her world one more time. Wow - what a catastrophy I could cause in her life - that's POWER!

 

Let's see, some of the reasons for not telling?

- He might very likely hurt her, maybe even seriously (I do love her)

- I was the willing participant for all these years

- Paternity fraud will NOT happen, I won't let it, no details on this forum.

- There is no STD threat between them but no details on this either.

- In time she and he WILL eventually part.

 

I also tend to trust, somewhat, in her basic cowardice, to not spill the beans later. Although I admit that's a gamble.

 

I have a huge problem with ANYONE who gets righteous after they lose.

That goes for kissing and telling. It also goes for gangs, mafia or other bad people (some of the analogies mentioned in this thread). To me, if you opt in, as I did, then your a chickensh*t if you rat for some personal gain. THAT is ratting, it's not just being honest all of a sudden.

 

And look Darth, I'm not a coward, and you can kiss my a** if you think I am, or if you think that calling me a fraidy cat will make one shred off difference in my decision.

 

And although you probably won't want to admit it, I was betrayed too. Just because I wasn't her “spouse” doesn't mean I wasn’t betrayed. I was betrayed and it's more pain than anything I've ever felt in my life. So I'm very aware that my thinking and decision making is skewed - for now.

 

I DON'T agree with the anonymous letter. It is soooo dumb!

The husband and the MW are above 100 IQ and will know it was me.

 

FWIW:

I'm here for a little balance ... I'm getting some help from this forum ... and my shrink, and you too Darth - thanks.

 

But once I get my balance, I'm outa' here and on with my life, which will be a pretty cool life.

 

I think my shrink would be unhappy if he knew I was here, hanging out, and learning what I'm I learning. I think he'd probably tell me it's too much prolonging of a form of contact with the whole matter.

 

I still haven't really decided to tell or not tell.

 

But I'm still leaning toward either not telling, or waiting til I get my head screwed back on, then figure out what to do. Too big of a decision to make quickly.

[Cagney]

As for Cagney, I think he has been brow-beaten enough. He seems fairly intelligent and capable of sifting though all the perspectives here to come up with his own conclusions. With any luck, this whole thing won’t cost him an additional four more months of couch time.

 

Thanks Enigma,

 

I can tell that you actually READ stuff

And I appreciate it very much!

 

And yes, I really am searching though all of this for a little needed wisdom.

I do have to admit that it's going to cost at least a few more weeks of couch time.

 

But I'm determined to get past all this and get on with the rest of a good life.