impending doom... the bachelor party. sorry its a lengthy post

[saviourself]

Sorry everyone for the length of this post, but I'm a very detailed person and can't bring myself to keep things simple.

 

Now while I’m not against the idea of my fiance having a bachelor party, I am somewhat uncomfortable with the idea. Its not an issue of trust, or cheating, its an issue of comfort zones being deeply encroached upon and respect that has me concerned.

 

Somehow, my fiance and I got on the topic of a bachelor party. And jokingly I said no strippers and if he was going to have one or more… I’d be sending his mom with him. Apparently he took this a little out of context.

 

He knows sort of why I have a problem with the industry and one night during a heated argument over the topic he said some pretty foul things concerning what he called my “petty fears”.

 

I have never been nor ever will be a “PETTY” person. And the fact that he used that particular word in such context to refer to my feelings infuriated me. Long story short, he slept alone that night.

 

I’ve tried to explain to him hundreds of times that its not jealousy, its not cheating, and although my father DID leave my mother for a stripper that he slept with at a company Christmas party while she was working, only 1% of my problem concerns that particular part of my life. He thinks its 100% of the problem. But whatever.

 

Anyway, here’s my side of the argument.

 

I’m not jealous, never have been, never will be. I don’t mind him looking, I don’t mind him getting himself off to a magazine or a movie or any other erotic literature. I don’t even mind little comments like “that’s a nice ass.” Fine, if it IS in fact a nice ass, I’ll readily agree. I GUESS I could be classified by some as bisexual, though I like to think of it more as appreciative of beauty. I fancy myself as a pretty open minded individual. I have been to numerous strip clubs on my own free will--all of them female dancers. (I can’t bring myself to go witness male dancers) I appreciate the art of strip tease, the eroticism behind it, the physical work these girls put themselves through. The body in motion is a beautiful thing especially the female body. Women move with fluidity and grace. A woman’s body is meant to entice; there‘s curve, there‘s detail and a great deal of motion to consider. GOOD, TALENTED dancers work hard to earn their pay and some can do it within good taste. THAT to me is art in motion and I’m not above appreciating the beauty in all arts, including exotic dancing.

 

BUT unfortunately I’ve seldom ran across women who actually dance. Maybe it’s the region I live in, but the places I’ve been to were recommended by male friends of mine. I’ve ultimately walked out disappointed every time with only one or two girls in mind deserving of compliments. Most of the joints around here are sleazy with (I apologize to the women who work hard and have talent) talent-less, badly augmented, less than mediocre entertainers willing to do anything for a buck. I find this sadly amusing. I can’t appreciate beauty in a girl that looks like she just stepped out of rehab for a crack addiction (and i'm being serious here), rubbing her breasts all over anyone’s face that’s willing to stick a $5 bill in their teeth for an entire song. Or a girl who gets on stage pokes her butt out once or twice shimmies completely off beat to the music, or one that just wiggles around like a fish out of water and expects to get money in return just because she's naked. Or the ones that do absolutely nothing on stage but will bend over the stage and rub their crotches into the faces of people who place dollar bills down their pants for the girl to retrieve it with her teeth.

 

Like I’ve said… I feel the region I live in is just filled with poor entertainment because I know… this cannot be common place for all strip bars otherwise the industry wouldn't last. Then again, I could just be really picky.

 

Anyway, I’ve told my fiance a few times, I don’t mind him going to a strip club, as long as I can go with him. Why should he be the one to get all the entertainment and leave me to sit at home and do his laundry. He’s accepting of this and told me he’d RATHER I be there with him.

 

So why does he get all crazy about the bachelor party? I’ve told him time and time again, I don’t care if you go to a strip club, I’d actually prefer him to go to an establishment rather than get a private dancer. The establishments are more regulated and I’d feel more comfortable with a crowd of people being around, than a group of his… womanizing friends having a personal stripper.

 

Now, I’ve read on these forums a few times about strippers that do--excuse my lack of better wording--house calls and how things have gotten pretty out of hand. A lot of people have renamed these girls hookers… which unfortunately, that’s what they become, a hooker operating under the title of a stripper. I noted one guy in one of the threads who got pretty irate over the original post, stating that he was a promoter and all the jazz that goes along with it and that his girls do not get out of hand and don't have sexual relations with the people who pay them. While in his case, that might be true, but not every dancer is promoted. Especially around here, there’s very few promotional companies in the area and most of them are at least 45 miles away. More often than not the strippers I’ve seen or heard of getting hired for private parties, were plucked from the establishment they work at. Well… when you’ve got no ones rules but your own, how the entertainment goes is up to you. How far it goes is in your hands, and you can control what you do to earn whatever amount of money you wish and the only morals that matter... are your own. Hence why I stated NO PRIVATE DANCERS.

 

There’s a fine line with me when it comes to harmless entertainment and disrespect. I condemn lap dances. Now if you’re single fine, if you want to pay to have a girl all over your lap that’s on you. But I do not feel as though my fiance is respecting me or our relationship by allowing that to happen. And I don't feel I'm being irrational, and a lot of my completely heterosexual male friends agree with me. If a stripper or ANY girl for that matter comes as close to him as I do, there’s a problem. Not out of jealousy either. If I were to leave him alone on the dance floor so I could go to the bathroom, and came back to find some random girl grinding her ass all over his crotch, I’d be leaving in cuffs. So why should I excuse it happening with another girl just because that’s her profession? What if he were to come home to find me under another man? Would it make it okay if the man I was under was a porn star? I mean… that IS what he gets paid to do. If that happened he'd be hit with two murder charges. To me, it doesn’t make it excusable just because it happens to be someone’s profession.

 

I’ve witnessed stage dances where the groom to be gets tied to a pole and has his belt removed, and the “goal” of this is to ultimately embarrass the guy in front of everyone. But the stage dances I’ve seen… the guy gets his pants undone and pulled down enough to where his penis would be exposed if he weren’t wearing underwear. Then the girls proceed to hop on his lap and mimic riding him as if he were the last penis they’d ever encounter. And that is no exaggeration… serious dry humping with fully nude women and full female genitalia contact with males lap... repeatedly. This of course sickens me to think my husband-to-be could be placed in this position… considering… he does NOT wear underwear. There’s too much room for accidental error there if you ask me. If he wants to have some naked girl jumpin all over his lap and rubbin her crotch around in his face then I feel it should be at OUR discretion. No I'm not above the idea of a threesome. I've contemplated it a few times, and he knows this, BUT it can only happen once boundaries are established and the right girl is found... which, could take YEARS if it even occurs.

 

And though I’ve used these exact analogies with him when discussing this, I feel as though I’m not being taken seriously because he ends up laughing. He says its due to the way I express myself (I’m quite expressive and very… passionate about the way I communicate). Which I suppose could be true. But I'd still like to be taken seriously.

 

My point is this, I don’t mind the idea of a bachelor party being held at a strip club so long as the girl(s) do not come within arms reach of him. That is where my comfort zone is breached. And i'd expect other people i don't know to not come within arms reach of me out of respect for him. Am I being too harsh in saying that? Because I think its pretty fair. Though, I wouldn’t expect him to tell me if he got a lap dance anyway, seeing as he knows I’d probably lop off one or both of his testicals and hand them back to him in a cup.

 

Also, I’ve heard about these co-ed bachelor/ette parties which I think would actually be quite beneficial seeing as we have a tight circle of friends. Most of his being female, most of mine being male but they ALL know each other. We both get along with each other’s people and their significant others (if they have one). He expects me to have a bachelorette party, however, he thinks id be going to a male revue, which, I wouldn’t since I find men dancing around in thongs to be quite unattractive and would get just as much amusement out of watching a baby horse try to walk for the first time (sorry guys, you're just not as graceful as most women). If I were to involve strippers at all, they’d be female, and he’s said to me on several occasions that if I ever think of attending a female strip club, I had better be taking him so he can be entertained as well. Also, I don’t drink nor do the bar/club scene because a lot of the drama that always ends up happening. I just think it would save a lot of time, money, aggravation and potential heartache and fights on everyone’s part if we had one big joint party. That way, everyone wouldn’t have to find baby sitters for two separate nights, people wouldn’t get offended by their significant other attending a party that they couldn’t really trust them at, and EVERYONE could enjoy the party without having to go to two separate ones. Aside from that I think it’s less sexist and more up with modern society. Its just… how do I bring that up to him without him thinking I’m just doing it to benefit myself?

 

Oh and please... no condescending words or stating that its "his right" to particiapte in total debauchery just because he has a penis. I feel I'm being pretty fair and open-minded with him on this. I've read how cruel some people can be to women inquiring about this type of thing and I'd rather not have to waste my time reading unnecessary negativity. Thanks

[SeraBella]

I don't know what to tell you because my feelings are different than yours.

 

I just want to say I think the idea of a co-ed bachelor/ette party is dumb. The idea of them is the "last night out" before the wedding. Why would you have both of you there? That's like the same celebration as the wedding.

[basicinstinct]

I think a hell of a lot men actually have sex with the so-called strippers at bachelor parties. It's commonplace. Damn scary.

[ahah2322]

i think you should be cooler about it. afterall, it's only one night. and you should trust that he knows his place...

[Walk]

I really enjoyed reading your well thought out post Saviourself. You've made some really good points, and (I feel) validated your reasoning with logical ideas.

 

I have a couple of questions though.

 

Do you believe he will have sex with a stripper if given the opportunity?

Do you believe he'll do any of the other points you brought up?

Do you think he'll take advantage of his night of freedom and abuse it knowing it would kill you if you knew what he did?

 

I have the same fears/concerns you have brought up regarding strippers/strip clubs, but I can't conceptualize my fiance EVER allowing anything to get to a point where he would know it would cross my boundaries. There's the potential he may do something he wouldn't realize would cross my boundaries. Something that may seem normal to him, and we had never discussed it before... but that would be miscommunication and not knowing our partner well enough.

 

I'm questioning whether he's 'laughing' at you because he isn't taking you seriously, or because he never had any intention of allowing any of your worst case scenario's to occur. Is he actually shrugging off your concerns because he believes anything goes, or because he feel uncomfortable that you would think he is such a complete bag o' a$$ that he'd actually do the things you stated in your post. You've colored him in a pretty bad light if you believe he WILL do those things, and you need to prevent it by telling him not to. How would you feel if your fiance gave you a long lecture about how it's crossing his boundaries for you to whore yourself around with 10 men while out at your bachlorette party, and how it is wrong of you to even consider doing that. I'm not sure how I would react, but I think laughing it off would be the most acceptable of methods.

 

Sometimes men need to pretend they're men. If he respects you in the relationship, if he has demonstrated this respect and shown you that he can be trusted, then you need to play along and let him 'pretend' to be The Man. Give him one night, just one night, where he can pretend he's king of the world and all women fall at his feet. It doesn't mean he'll suddenly turn into evil incarnate and stick his dick in whatever offers itself.

 

It all comes down to trust. Do you trust him? If you do, then believe in him. If you don't, then maybe you should rethink marrying him.

[saviourself]

okay.... maybe i didn't make this clear. so allow me to clarify. its NOT a trust issue. no, i DON'T think he's gonna have sex with a stripper. he doesn't cheat and this i am HIGHLY aware of. i just don't appreciate the lap dance idea. he wouldn't want another man grinding all over me for the purpose of a "harmless" night of fun. so why should he expect it for him? and all of the b-s about "its the last night out"... WRONG. he gets nights out with the boys all the time. he's left me alone with the baby all this weekend so he could do his guy thing. i'm fine with this. but if this so called last night out is looked at as a god given right for a man to cross the comfort boundaries of his soon to be wife... then i just feel it leaves room for a whole bunch of problems to arise in the future. besides the whole idea of it being the guys last night out, last night of being single... yada yada... is again BS. obviously if you're about to marry someone... you're not single... you're committed, and you've been committed for quite some time, otherwise marriage wouldn't be an option. you're only single on your taxes and other legal documents because you're not LEGALLY binded to someone yet. if people want to consider that their last night of being single... then they might as well have stayed that way.

 

i look at relationships as an equal give and take. compromise is always an option and i'm willing to give to get. but if i highly feel against something then i feel it shouldn't be done especially if it will ultimately destroy the relationship. just as i wouldn't purposely put myself into a situation that would damage how he feels.

 

it wasnt a long drawn out lecture i gave him, it was more hypothetical situations and short analogies (he's not really the intellectual type so i try to keep it simple) and how would you feel type of scenarios. when he started laughing i asked him why and he said it was in the way i express myself with my body. maybe he took me seriously... i don't know, but he said he did see my point but couldnt help but laugh.

 

as for the person that said the co-ed party was dumb... you don't understand our circle of people... and no... it wouldnt be the same as our ceremony. my family is HIGHLY religious... and looks down on a lot of things and i most certainly would not invite my grandmother to a party other than the ceremony... she'd more than likely have a heart attack. but you're entitled to your opinion.

 

like i said, its not him i worry about. close contact... intimate contact of any kind, i.e. kissing, fondling, erotic touch... anything that he would do with me and would expect me not to do with anyone else BUT him... is what breaches the comfort zone. as i said... i'm being pretty fair about the no lap dances. point blank... i do not want any other girl.. be it a professional or not putting her lady parts on my man. just as he would expect the same from me.

 

i honestly don't even know what compelled me to write the post to begin with. i think i was just in the mood to get some things off my chest and possibly get some feedback. -shrugs- either way... thanks for the replies

[Walk]

Well then... since you didn't care to get other peoples opinions on the matter, then I guess you were just blowing steam.

 

Why don't you just tell you fiance that he isn't allowed to get lap dances, and no other girl can touch him during his bachelor party.

 

That will make him feel like you love him more because you're jealous, and it'll show him that you trust him.

 

Happy marriage.

[saviourself]

walk - i told him no lap dances. he said he understood why, but whether he follows through or not is a different story. again, i'm not jealous nor possessive. like i said, i dont mind him looking, fantasizing, or making comments, but i do believe in fidelity. the extent of my trust goes only so far with him... for reasons i'll explain in a second. but a jealous person would not allow him to go out to dinner with a friend of his that he had previously slept with quite a few times without thinkin somethin was up. the only thing i was pissed about when i got home from work was the fact that he didn't bring me home some jalapeno poppers like i asked.

 

now... my trust with him only goes so far because of his... previous bad habits.

let me reitterate a little further... since i didn't make this clear either. am i worried that he will purposely go against my wishes? no. but, he becomes quite... stupid when he drinks excessively (there's been a couple broken windows in my house to prove that). and he had a bad habit of falling to temptation a lot when we first got together... not sexual temptation... but, god i hate admitting this, he'd do anything people put in front of him. i didn't appreciate finding things stashed under my bathroom sink under a stack of magazines (he lived in my mom's with me at the time) and then when i ask him about it he blatantly tells me it was there before he moved in... when i knew better considering i had cleaned the bathroom days before he moved in. and then weeks later him admitting to it when i had to back him into a corner over it. it showed that he was INTENTIONALLY hiding it. i can't stand it when people treat me like i'm stupid. thankfully as far as i know this is a thing of the past and better be considering we now have a child together and i'm not about to put myself in the position to lose my daughter over someone's recreational habits.

 

i'm not worried that he'd PURPOSELY do anything, but i suppose more concerned that he wouldn't deny it if the oppurtunity was presented given his inability to say no especially when drinking. i know he'd regret it later if he did, just like he used to regret doing the drugs later. but he'd never tell me about it or he'd lie about it (supposedly to keep me from getting hurt--but the truth hurts a lot less than having to discover the truth, this is something he still fails to realize), i'd have to accidentally find out a few days later when it came up in conversation or stories just weren't adding up. it's still amazing to me that i stuck it out through all of that seeing as i ordinarily have no problems leaving someone due to constant lies.

 

maybe i just want to nip things in the bud and not give rise to a potential problem that may or may not occur. like i said in my first post, i'm not denying him a party, what am however trying to get through to him is that no woman is to touch him or him to touch them in ways he would deem inappropriate if it were me in that position. who knows. but because of his past tresspasses and the turmoil he caused in the beginning due to his lying and the inability to say no, though forgiven, that little fear will always haunt me in the back of my mind and not without a justified reason.

 

eh... i suppose i'll just have to deal with it accordingly when the time comes, thankfully its quite some time away.

Edited February 10, 2008 by saviourself
grammatical errors

[norajane]

I understand how you feel, and I think it's pretty insensitive of your bf to laugh and call your concerns 'petty'.

 

I wouldn't want a stripper rubbing her parts all over my guy, and no, I don't believe it's acceptable just because other people accept it as something that guys do with strippers. Frankly, I think the concept of lap dances is kinda gross.

 

But I don't know how you can get through to him so he understands. I might try a lighthearted approach by helping him visualize it with the shoe on the other foot. I'd find some pic online where there's a male stripper giving a woman a lapdance, with his package right in her face, or sitting on her lap or whatever, and then, in an obvious way, paste a cut-out of my face in place of the woman's. And hand it to him and ask if he's ok with that. If he is, well, I might have to reconsider whether he's the guy for me.

[saviourself]

might be a good idea. i just want the security in knowing that he understands fully and respects my position. he's kinda hard to read or understand sometimes and he's highly detached emotionally so oftentimes i have to wonder if what i'm saying is registering in his brain. ugh... sometimes the differences in the way men and women think can be so irritating.

[Walk]

Saviourself, I still don't see how you could possibly tell him how you feel any more concisely then you already have.

 

You can't control his actions (you already know this), and he'll do what he wants to do at the time. The best you can do is voice your concerns, suggest alternatives, and comprimise with him. So far he's made it clear he won't comprimise, he won't listen to your alternatives, and thinks your concerns are petty.

 

You said his friends were your friends, right? Any possiblity you could speak to the male friends who are taking him out about your concerns and ask them to also honor your wishes? If they are your friends, then they won't allow your fiance to do things that will hurt you later. And they won't suggest, or pressure, your fiance into crossing that line.

[saviourself]

eh, thought about it. might be best to arrange for our friends to not pressure him into anything. they should abide by it. thus far nah, he doesn't seem like he's willing to compromise. and if he's not willing to compromise on this... then i'm no longer willing to compromise with him on doing his laundry or making his lunch for him in the morning since he's the one works while i stay home with the baby. eitherway... something's gotta give lol

[rainfall]

i think you should be cooler about it. afterall, it's only one night. and you should trust that he knows his place...

 

 

I don't think it has anything to do with how "cool" she is. She is going to marry this guy so it should be her right to decide if other women are allowed to touch him or not.

Some guys know their place as you put it, however they assume for some reason the bachelor party is different. It should be ok for her to make sure he knows how she feels.

[sunshinegirl]

You say this:

 

okay.... maybe i didn't make this clear. so allow me to clarify. its NOT a trust issue.

 

but then you say this:

 

walk - i told him no lap dances. he said he understood why, but whether he follows through or not is a different story.

 

So...you can't trust him to follow through...to the point that you are contemplating getting his friends involved to prevent him from doing "whatever's in front of him"...but it's not a trust issue?

 

This sounds like a much bigger enchilada than just a bachelor party.

[saviourself]

sunshine you misinterpreted. they're OUR friends... we have a lot of MUTUAL friends. and the part about doing whatever is in front of him has nothing to do with sex or sexual actions. and you'll realize that if you re-read the post. i've stated this many many times it is NOT a trust issue in the normal sense. no, i dont think hes gonna bang a stripper. no, i dont think hes gonna recieve oral or give it. I just do not have the security in knowing if he can say no--while being extremely intoxicated--to a lap dance if one is ordered. and that is the anxiety i am trying to quell. my apologies to everyone if this wasn't clear before.

 

in any case we had a discussion last night and everything is understood. he knows my boundaries and apologized for laughing before, but apparently i'm too expressive when i get into conversation which, i suppose is my fault. anyway, he brought the topic up, asked me what exactly my boundaries were and when i explained he said he was okay with that. BUT wants to discuss alternatives to "tradition" anyway when the time gets closer--we've still got at least another year to go. thankfully he's now able to understand my point of view and understand WHY i feel that way and respect it.

 

anyway, thanks for all the advice and what not... but i think we've got things covered from here

[a4a]

This always makes me shake my head.....

 

The brides to be need to have parties where random hot guys rub their "nutsack" all over them and tape it so their fiance's can watch.

Perhaps a little motor boatin'

 

I can only imagine how many men would cancel the wedding if that happened.

 

There is no need for a "last night".

[saviourself]

lol... good one.

[sunshinegirl]

sunshine you misinterpreted. they're OUR friends... we have a lot of MUTUAL friends. and the part about doing whatever is in front of him has nothing to do with sex or sexual actions. and you'll realize that if you re-read the post. i've stated this many many times it is NOT a trust issue in the normal sense. no, i dont think hes gonna bang a stripper. no, i dont think hes gonna recieve oral or give it. I just do not have the security in knowing if he can say no--while being extremely intoxicated--to a lap dance if one is ordered. and that is the anxiety i am trying to quell. my apologies to everyone if this wasn't clear before.

 

in any case we had a discussion last night and everything is understood. he knows my boundaries and apologized for laughing before, but apparently i'm too expressive when i get into conversation which, i suppose is my fault. anyway, he brought the topic up, asked me what exactly my boundaries were and when i explained he said he was okay with that. BUT wants to discuss alternatives to "tradition" anyway when the time gets closer--we've still got at least another year to go. thankfully he's now able to understand my point of view and understand WHY i feel that way and respect it.

 

anyway, thanks for all the advice and what not... but i think we've got things covered from here

 

I'm glad you got it sorted out.

 

For what it's worth, I understood perfectly what you were talking about, and my point remains. It doesn't matter whether they are HIS friends or your MUTUAL friends - the point I was making was that you were worried enough about his ability to keep his word that you thought you needed external intervention. That, to me, is the definition of mistrust, and I said it was a bigger issue because it extends beyond the bachelor party issue. You yourself described other situations in which he didn't control himself, or did whatever was in front of him, because he had been drinking. That's a flag.

 

I'm not trying to give you a hard time here, I am just trying to shine a light on what looks like a bigger issue to think about.

 

Good luck.

[D-Lish]

Here is how I feel about the idea of Bachelorette and Bachelor parties.

To me, this is seperate from the stripper issue.

 

I have a major problem with the notion of taking a soon to be married man out for one last evening of debauchery in order to expose him to as much pu**y as possible before he confines himself to one vagina for the rest of his life.

 

It's just a silly tradition, and it devalues the whole idea of marriage.

 

I don't care if my bf goes to see strippers once and a while- I agree that it's not about seeing a naked girl on stage. It's more about the slap in the face, as if your fiance and his friends are saying "ok soon to be wife"... we are just going to try and get your husband dirty one last time before he commits to you forever.

 

It's a ridiculous and antiquated rite of passage that devalues the whole notion of getting married. Grunt Grunt...

[blind_otter]

Personally I object to the whole bachelor party idea, too. It's one thing to get together with the guys, drink, talk about guy things, whatever, it's a whole OTHER thing to get a private dancer and have her flap her pussy lips all over the bachelor's semi-nude body. That's just gross.

 

One of my good friends is a stripper and she will not do private parties for any amount of money because of what the expectations are, as she put it. I'm just saying.

 

I don't want a nutsack anywhere near me unless it is attached to my SO. I also don't want an anonymous vagina anywhere near me, call me crazy.

 

I agree with D-Lish - it's unnecessary and pointless.

[basicinstinct]

this is a must-read about bachelor parties and shagging ho's:eek:

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/men/article2718293.ece

[sally4sara]

The answer hear is simple and it is what I did when I got married.

 

It can be useful to have friends that are strippers for this very reason. You hire the stripper. She knows you, your fiance and his friends know she knows you and will be reporting back to you on their behavior.

 

I was a stripper when I got married. One of the girls I worked with had a sister who worked for herself and her husband was her bouncer. A fun time was had by all.

[basicinstinct]

why are the dudes getting married when they're still at a place in their lives when they're willing to stick it into strippers/whores? Should they not save marriage for when they've grown up?

[sally4sara]

why are the dudes getting married when they're still at a place in their lives when they're willing to stick it into strippers/whores? Should they not save marriage for when they've grown up?

 

I was never a whore. Gosh you're nice.

[basicinstinct]

I was never a whore. Gosh you're nice.

 

No one called you a whore.