Why does she NOT want a realtionship?

[Mookie In Hiding]

I've reconnected with a friend from about 20 years ago. We've both been through the marriage and divorce bit and we're both single now. She's had a lot of professional success and she's made quite a nice home for herself. We've gone out several times and on the first night we could have kissed for sure...but I didn't want to make a mistake misreading signals but upon reflection the opportunity was there.

 

We've been on two dates since then and spoken about "relationships." She's built a life for herself and made it clear she doesn't feel she needs a relationship. She feels like that if someone doesn't live up to her standards (developed when she was going through tough times) the she'll not moved romantically. When I asked her about wanting a family she says "I don't need a husband to be a mother," which is obviously true but lacking in my opinion.

 

My layman view says that she's been so hurt that she's not about to let anyone near those sensitive places in her heart. That's she's so used to people screwing her over that she's just not allowing anyone to get that close.

 

I really like this woman and would love to become more a part of her life. Has anyone had similar experiences? How should I best approach this dilemma? I feel if I just continue to be a presence in her life she might realize there is more to it than being single. She's the one who intiated some of the physicality (kissing) so I'm pretty confused and would LOVE some help.

 

Mookie In Hiding.

mookieinhiding.wordpress.com

[norajane]

If she's initiating kissing, I'd say you are doing just fine. Do NOT put yourself in the friends zone!! Keep asking her out on dates (and YOU do some kiss initiating!!) and let the relationship develop.

 

As to what she's saying about relationships, guys always seem to have a problem in understanding that when a woman says she doesn't NEED a guy, that's not the same as saying she doesn't WANT a guy.

 

She's at a point in her life where she realizes she can stand on her own two feet, and she doesn't need a guy to prop her up and give her a life and money and whatever. However, she may certainly WANT and APPRECIATE having a man to enjoy life with and celebrate all the good things.

 

Do you need to be needed by a woman, or would you rather a woman CHOOSE to be with you because she WANTS you around?

[Mookie In Hiding]

I definitely want to be wanted otherwise what's the point? I'm thinking she's feeling me out...maybe see how I fare in understanding her. I appreciate the advice and I'm going to be patient but purposeful.

 

Thanks a bunch. I've got a date with her tonight!!!

[LoveLace]

Nj is right "want" and "need" are 2 different things...I think we'd all rather be "wanted" than needed, anyway. It's clear you realize that you have a sensible woman here. You should basically follow her lead but keep giving her the chances to do that in the 1st place by pursuing her.

[Mookie In Hiding]

A few days have passed and we've continued to talk about how we each feel about things. As I mentioned she's got certain criteria that her next real relationship must have. Obviously everyone has certain criteria such as integrity, honesty, gentleness, compassion, etc. which are understandable.

 

One of her criteria is that the person she wants a relationship must not have had children in the past. While I admire the desire to want to experience those things anew that mindset is so incredibly limiting. Can't it be just as wonderful experience regardless? She's 35 and I'm 38. We've both been married in the past, her for 2 years and me for 5 when I was 20. I have a son from that marriage who is 17 years old and that is supposed to negate me from experiencing something with this woman who shows interest in me.

 

/baffling.

 

It sounds like to me that she's been so hurt in the past that she's erected these walls and she's accepted the fact that if she doesn't get those things exactly how she wants them that's ok.

 

I thought that I knew something about women from my 38 years but I'm just as confused as I can be.

 

=)

 

MiH

[Ronni_W]

One of her criteria is that the person she wants a relationship must not have had children in the past. ... I have a son

MiH,

To quote from your first post, "she'll not be moved" [by you.] She has made it clear that any man who is also a parent is not on her list for a (committed) romantic relationship. It's a deal-breaker, for her.

 

She will continue to enjoy your company because of all your good qualities. It may become fully sexual, it may even look like a "real" relationship. But in her mind and heart, she will always have the out of having been "totally honest with you right from the start." Whenever she does need/choose to pull that trump card, she will be saying a true thing.

 

Like you, I do not understand her position on this. But it is her position, and I wouldn't make bets that she will change her mind or "come to her senses".

 

You know what you're getting into, and the very likely potential of how far she is willing to take things with you.

Yes, you can choose to accept whatever level of relationship she will allow knowing that there is already a condition you'll never be able to satisfy. You can hope that, over time, she will re-examine her position and come to a different conclusion on her own; thereby making you eligible, in her mind.

 

In the meantime, take proper care and caution for your own heart's sake.

Sending Love and Light.

[nittygritty]

It should be a red flag to you that she knows that you have a child and told you that "her criteria is that the person she wants a relationship with must not have children from the past".

 

While it is a good thing that she is being completely honest with you about what she wants, she knew you have a child before going out with you. Her telling you is probably her way of warning you that this relationship will be limited to a FWB type of relationship with the lifespan of when or if she finds someone who meets her criteria.

 

She is also covering her bases by letting you know that whatever type of relationship she decides to have with you, you better not make your child a priority over the casual relationship you would have with her.

 

Neither of you are the same person that you were 20 years ago. Grown up life has taken place and hopefully, being a parent is a big part of who you are today. You should have some relationship "criteria" yourself and a friend or lover who doesn't want a "real" relationship with you because you have a child should not be pursued.

 

Edit: I missed the part that your son is 17 but still even though he's 17 it doesn't sound like she will be very understanding about your relationship.

 

To make sure no miscommunication has taken place, you need to ask her questions about her comments.

Ask her if she is telling you that because you have a 17 year old that you don't meet her criteria?

Have her to explain the meaning.

Edited February 15, 2008 by nittygritty

[norajane]

To make sure no miscommunication has taken place, you need to ask her questions about her comments.

Ask her if she is telling you that because you have a 17 year old that you don't meet her criteria?

Have her to explain the meaning.

 

I second this advice - only she can tell you for sure if your son is a deal-breaker for her.

[2cents]

I think you need to be more carefull with yourself with this one. An accomplished woman in her forties "guessing" that tells you that you are already disqualified from the race. But keep running anyway. She has been hurt in the past so she has to protect herself! We all have, I think it is safe to say. So you should protect you and your as well. You said you knew each other before, was it by chance that you met again? I knew a girl once "Flight attendant" that when ever she was having troubles she would look me up, and then show up. Make sure the old comfort level of your past is not te reason for your present. Just a thought.

[Phateless]

Just be straight with her, but not too available. You don't want to come on too strong and scare her off, but DO NOT play games like hard to get, if that makes sense. She's making it quite clear that she wants to set the pace, so let her, just don't get into a habit of being at her beck and call.

[carhill]

What kind of "friend" was she, in the past? What were your feelings for her, in the past?

 

Obviously not entirely germain, but I am curious where the instant intimacy (IMO) came from. BTW, there's nothing wrong with "waiting", unless , as mentioned, FWB is what you want, too.

 

IMO, and I've had it happen to me personally with "list" women (more than one, to be sure), when the "right guy" comes along, the list goes out the window. How do I remember? Not the right guy

 

My wife stuck to her list, married me and we're in MC. Sometimes the list isn't enough, but that goes without saying

 

My advice is to enjoy her company, be intimate within both of your comfort (moral) zones and keep your options open. Never know where the road of life will take you.

[D-Lish]

My layman view says that she's been so hurt that she's not about to let anyone near those sensitive places in her heart. That's she's so used to people screwing her over that she's just not allowing anyone to get that close.

 

I'd say you are quite right to make that assumption. I always make similar claims when I first meet someone- and that is because I have been through a painful divorce, some betrayal, and some heart break in my life.

 

It's almost like you say things like that in order to protect yourself and show the person you like that you are a strong person.... a challenge if you like.

 

You never want to let on to someone you first meet that you have vulnerabilities. That's really hard to do after experiencing the pain of a divorce or difficult break up. Yes, I am sure it is a little bit of posturing on her part.

 

I have a feeling that breaking her shell might be a slow process, but she sounds worth it.

[carhill]

I was "screwed over" plenty as a single man for far longer than I care to remember but it never hardened my heart. Conversely, it gave me a keen sense of people that I did not possess prior. Does the OP here feel the lady's heart is permanently closed to certain relationship options (sounds like "family" is something which is important to both but at different "standards", as an example) or just that such intimacy is difficult right now, in light of recent past events? If the OP shows empathy and respect for this, what is the response? What do your instincts say? How do you feel about being vulnerable to her? Not an unimportant question, IMO...

[Mookie In Hiding]

What a great response from everyone...it's more than I expected.

 

I'll update you all and answer some of the questions. We've been out several times since and had a GREAT time but when I try to discuss more serious topics I've been kept at arms length. To answer one of the earlier questions, we knew each other when we were teenagers, her 14 and me 17. She's now 35 and I'm 38 so it's been a healthy 20 years for sure.

 

I was really getting hung up on "what's wrong with me, I'm a, b, and c...?" I'm still sticking to my theory that no man will live up to her ideals as they currently stand and she may decide, after getting to know me as an adult, that there may be a future for us at some point. So I've decided to be her friend again and not pressure her. That way I get to be in her company as friends and the future potential is not there. If I just broke it off or decided to keep pushing I'm afraid I'd lose her forever...I mean friends is better than nothing right?

 

I think this hit me in the particular way for a couple of reasons. She and I were friends who liked each other romantically as teens, I haven't dated in a LONG time, and my age. Those factors kind of added to the 'head over heels' falling I experienced. Don't get me wrong, I still think she's the cat's meow. She's gorgeous, smart, funny and a kind, gentle person.

 

I'm still learning about myself after all these years and disappointment still hurts like it did then. I'm a little heart-bent because I just don't have these feelings for any cute girl that catches my eye and this kind of thing doesn't happen to me often.

 

Thanks so much for the advice and the perspective. I appreciate it greatly.

[stillafool]

You say this woman is accomplished in her career and has made a home for herself. She sounds like someone who knows what she wants and gets it. I don't think it's because she has been hurt. I think it was a "red flag" also that she said she didn't want a man who had already experienced having children. She had to know that would knock you out of the race. At any rate, she still has physical needs that have to be met. I would not get too hung up on her yet if I were you.

[carhill]

I mean friends is better than nothing right?

 

There was a time when I would've said that without hesitation. Having been through a similar rediscovery, though not with your particular circumstances, I would opine that much will depend on how you feel with her. As a friend, could you be happy for her when she gets engaged to someone else? For me, in my circumstance, I could say "yes", but I would also have to acknowledge the pain of loss of what might have been.

 

I think the advice to "not get too hung up on her", which I read as involving your emotions, is sound. IME, it's a lot easier to add them in than to remove them. Her list might knock you out of the race but it's also possible the list might change

[Blue Eyed Brain]

Go slowly or maybe let her know that you are cool with whatever her time line is. However, you want to know her intentions or don't get attached.