Affairs destroy everyone involved...from the MM.....1223

[SimpleyMe]

I feel horrible for your wife im sure her heart is shattered,what makes me angry is me being a stranger can feel bad for her and you being her H she's the mother of your kids and you can't even feel bad for what you have done to her.

 

It's just me,me,me with you ,and crying about another woman who does'nt belong to you in the first place.

 

Honestly i think you should be alone,i dont think you should be with W or OW get yourself together for once decide what you really want on your own.even though it will be hard on your wife let her go find someone who will love her and treat her better,and as for OW dont go chasing her just yet you need time on your own.

[Tomcat33]

I'm sorry, but there have been so many OW on this site that have been given the same line that you gave your OW...and all of them willingly buy into that same lie just as she did.

 

This is straight out of the cheater's handbook...its all part of the standard WS script that everyone is given at the beginning of the affair.

 

 

 

I don't agree with that entirely, some marriages have not been intimate for a long time before the OP even comes into the picture. There are the types of cheaters that want the best of both worlds and they want to milk everyone involved and then there are those who are seriously contemplating getting out. It they are and they are perplexed with this idea because it IS a big decision, then I can see why sex is going to happen with the spouse, they are about to make the biggest decision of their lives that will change their life forever so they have to be 100% sure that what they are about to do is for all the right reasons and need to know how they really feel about their partners, and what better way then to see how they feel intimately?

 

If you have been sleeping with another woman for 3 yrs unless you know what it feels like to sleep next to a person you no longer love and know you have to leave, and sleep with someone who you do feel love and excitement for, but are afraid to take the leap for, you cannot empathise with why some of these people trying to get out still have sex with their partners. They are trying to be 100% sure that it is over, and I don't blame them for doing so.

 

For the record I don't fall into the catergory of the women who was lied to about that because my guy lived on his own and the only bed he slept in was mine or his, never in her bed/house while we were sleeping together. after we broke up and he went back to her in the last year that he had been contemplating his D he did sleep with her, he told me flat out, and as he suspected he felt nothing, it was forced it was bad all around. I would NEVER question him on his decision or say to him, "but how if you say you continued to love me all this time how could you still want to sleep with your W?" because it's understood that he needed to do what he needed to do to be 100% sure. the OW must protect herself in this situation otherwise she has no right demanding this IF the man is trying to leave his marriage. the OW should assume that he is sleeping with his W and SHE should protect herself not rely on his words he's married and his wife sleeps next to him every night and she does not know he is having an affair WHY wouldn't he sleep with her if the oportunity arises? But that does not necessarily mean all men in this position are doing it to take advantage of everyone involved.

 

OWL I know you are a big fan of the % stats but seriously you really have no clue what each situation is like, some MM really have NO desire at all to be sleeping with their W's, others want to even more because they are overstimulated by their mistresses/affair, others are asked to by their partners and can't say no because they don't want to be figured out, others are cake eaters, others are trying to see where their feelings are during the A so it really is all over the map.

Edited February 12, 2008 by Tomcat33

[Elena62]

I agree with Jessie, You need to be ALONE. You also need intense therapy. I'm not saying that to be flip, but you seem to me someone who wants what they can't have, the thrill of the chase, but when you've got it, you're bored.

 

That's why you wouldn't leave your wife for your OW, you actually loved having two women, now that the OW smartened up NOW you want her?

 

You've got a lot of work to do on yourself. Please don't drag anyone else into your issues until you've fixed them.

 

i SO agree with this! People always want what they can't have and then they drag them/others into their messes and their messed up life.

 

A little bit of respect starting with SELF respect goes a long way!

[White Flower]

Children do just fine with divorced parents. I didn't want to accept that but the proof is in our population.

 

Stack, go to her. You've been honest with both and yourself. If she truly loves you she will forgive you. You said you have never really chased after what you wanted. Well, this is your chance to overcome that fear. Go out on a limb and win her back. Set your W free and let her find someone who will love her more than you. All 3 of you deserve this.

 

I too had a hard time with MM being with his W. I had believed their physical contact was minimal and when I discovered it wasn't as minimal as I previously thought I went bolistic. I pretty much got over it but I'm not as far along in my R with MM as you were with your OW. She sounds ready to stop being the OW and become number one in your life.

 

My guess is she'll forgive you once she sees a signed divorce paper.

[White Flower]

He did say he felt horrible about his W. He just doesn't feel emotionally attached to her any longer. He is remorseful.

[Zolie]

I wish I could feel bad for my wife's position, but I can't. I want to feel the love for her I once had, but I don't. There are so many conversations my wife and I have had over this past week where I wish I could show some type of emotion towards her, but I don't. I don't know why I dont, but I guess it comes down to the fact that I am not in love with her any longer. <snip> I can't help or stop the feelings I have towards the OW and the lack of feelings I have towards my W.

 

This is why I am always bothered when a married person is chastised for hurting their spouse when the MP fell in love with someone else. How can we chastise someone for no longer loving one person and falling in love with another person? None of us can control the feelings that develop for new people, or the feelings that cease to be for old relationships. Sometimes it just happens.

 

Stack, don't beat yourself up over losing the love for your wife. Granted, you cheated on her, and you did her and your OW a great disservice by not leaving the one you no longer loved to be with the one you did love. But, don't feel badly for no longer loving your wife. It just wasn't meant to be.

 

Love is a tricky thing. It's either ephemeral or eternal, or somewhere in between. It can be based on simple lust, or based on misconceptions about the other person. How often have we heard someone say "I thought I loved him/her." Or, "At that time I loved him/her."

 

It's no sin to have your feelings change towards someone. You are doing the right thing by acknowledging that your feelings have ceased for your wife and that she deserves to be with someone who loves her completely.

 

Good luck....

[White Flower]

You're right, Zolie.

 

It goes back to the idea of marriage=ownership. People still feel very strongly about that so that is why they flame. I wonder if they would like someone to be stuck with them forever if they didn't feel loved by them?

[Zolie]

You're right, Zolie.

 

It goes back to the idea of marriage=ownership. People still feel very strongly about that so that is why they flame. I wonder if they would like someone to be stuck with them forever if they didn't feel loved by them?

 

Exactly, White Flower. The last time I had that ownership mentality was when I was in high school. I remember confronting a girl who was flirting with *my* boyfriend, telling her to keep her paws off of him because he was *mine*, lol. Little did I understand back then that if he had wanted to be with her, he would have been, regardless of my proprietary feelings of ownership towards him.

 

By the time I got married a few years later, I had lost that immature sense of ownership just for the sake of ownership. I never wanted to feel like my husband was only mine just because he was married to me - I wanted to know he was mine because he wanted to be mine.

[NoIDidn't]

This is why I am always bothered when a married person is chastised for hurting their spouse when the MP fell in love with someone else. How can we chastise someone for no longer loving one person and falling in love with another person? None of us can control the feelings that develop for new people, or the feelings that cease to be for old relationships. Sometimes it just happens.

 

Because he should have told his W with the many times she keeps taking him back. He didn't just "fall in love with someone else", he went back to his W every time and even went NC with the OW for awhile. Society chastises him for leading on his W over and over again if he really isn't in love with her.

 

Stack, don't beat yourself up over losing the love for your wife. Granted, you cheated on her, and you did her and your OW a great disservice by not leaving the one you no longer loved to be with the one you did love. But, don't feel badly for no longer loving your wife. It just wasn't meant to be.

 

I agree. He SHOULD beat himself up over how much he LIED to HER and USED her while he PLAYED HOUSE with ANOTHER WOMAN.

 

Love is a tricky thing. It's either ephemeral or eternal, or somewhere in between. It can be based on simple lust, or based on misconceptions about the other person. How often have we heard someone say "I thought I loved him/her." Or, "At that time I loved him/her."

 

Yeah, and at the rate that he keeps going back to his W, he'll probably be saying that about the OW soon enough.

 

It's no sin to have your feelings change towards someone. You are doing the right thing by acknowledging that your feelings have ceased for your wife and that she deserves to be with someone who loves her completely.

 

And this is where the problems come in. He has acknowledged it here, but hasn't said a word about acknowledging it to the person that matters the most in his M, the one he no longer loves, HIS W.

 

Its true that feelings change, but after YEARS in an A with the same OW, its a little late to be using that as the rational that made him do it (for YEARS, at that).

 

Believe me, I don't judge him for being human, but he has to stop lying to himself if he wants to have a healthy R of any kind one day.

[White Flower]

I never wanted to feel like my husband was only mine just because he was married to me - I wanted to know he was mine because he wanted to be mine.

 

That is the very best kind of love. I hope in the end Stack, his W, and his OW get this kind.

[Impudent Oyster]

This is why I am always bothered when a married person is chastised for hurting their spouse when the MP fell in love with someone else. How can we chastise someone for no longer loving one person and falling in love with another person? None of us can control the feelings that develop for new people, or the feelings that cease to be for old relationships. Sometimes it just happens.

 

.

 

Oh Baloney...a lie is a lie is a lie and it is WRONG.

 

So if MP doesn't love their spouse anymore...GET A DIVORCE. Don't lie to and cheat on them, and "falling in love" someone new doesn't give that MP a free pass to crush their spouses soul.

 

Sometimes it just happens? Fine, let it happen, AFTER the cowardly MP fesses up and leaves their spouse, not before.

[Impudent Oyster]

Exactly, White Flower. The last time I had that ownership mentality was when I was in high school. I remember confronting a girl who was flirting with *my* boyfriend, telling her to keep her paws off of him because he was *mine*, lol. Little did I understand back then that if he had wanted to be with her, he would have been, regardless of my proprietary feelings of ownership towards him.

 

By the time I got married a few years later, I had lost that immature sense of ownership just for the sake of ownership. I never wanted to feel like my husband was only mine just because he was married to me - I wanted to know he was mine because he wanted to be mine.

 

Okay Zolie, when your husband no longer wants to be yours I'm sure it's okay if he lies to you and sneaks around with another woman behind your back instead of being a man and telling you he wants out.

 

I'm sure you would understand if he did that, after all, he couldn't help falling in love with someone new.

[Zolie]

Well, NoIDidn't, I have no wish to argue my opinion against your opinion. You are more interested in focusing on the evilness of lying and cheating, than on what my actual point was - which had nothing to do with how he lied to his wife and his OW both, but rather how he and other folks are often chastised for falling out of love with their spouse and in love with someone else.

[NoIDidn't]

Okay Zolie, when your husband no longer wants to be yours I'm sure it's okay if he lies to you and sneaks around with another woman behind your back instead of being a man and telling you he wants out.

 

I'm sure you would understand if he did that, after all, he couldn't help falling in love with someone new.

 

I don't get when people say the marriage=ownership thing.

 

I mean, how much sense does it make to state, when speaking of your spouse, that you are married to "a" H, instead of "your" H?

 

My H is MY H. No ownership implied. *I* married him, not an arbitrary H, but HIM. And he feels the same way. I am HIS W, not some other husband's W, but HIS.

 

How does defending MY M equate to ownership?

 

In regards to Stack's OW being hurt by his lying about still sleeping with his W, she probably feels like she was actually the one cheated on. The irony is really ...just....shocking.

[Impudent Oyster]

I don't get when people say the marriage=ownership thing.

 

I mean, how much sense does it make to state, when speaking of your spouse, that you are married to "a" H, instead of "your" H?

 

My H is MY H. No ownership implied. *I* married him, not an arbitrary H, but HIM. And he feels the same way. I am HIS W, not some other husband's W, but HIS.

 

How does defending MY M equate to ownership?

 

In regards to Stack's OW being hurt by his lying about still sleeping with his W, she probably feels like she was actually the one cheated on. The irony is really ...just....shocking.

 

Why are you quoting me? I agree with you.

[Impudent Oyster]

Well, NoIDidn't, I have no wish to argue my opinion against your opinion. You are more interested in focusing on the evilness of lying and cheating, than on what my actual point was - which had nothing to do with how he lied to his wife and his OW both, but rather how he and other folks are often chastised for falling out of love with their spouse and in love with someone else.

 

 

I've NEVER heard anyone chastise anyone for falling out of love with their spouse.

 

And lying and cheating IS evil.

 

It's not rocket science, if you don't love your spouse, divorce them, don't lie and cheat on them while your looking for their replacement.

[Zolie]

Okay Zolie, when your husband no longer wants to be yours I'm sure it's okay if he lies to you and sneaks around with another woman behind your back instead of being a man and telling you he wants out.

 

I'm sure you would understand if he did that, after all, he couldn't help falling in love with someone new.

 

 

LOL! Well, since I left my husband over 2 years ago, and the marriage was over long before that, I guess I don't have to worry about that, now do I?

 

But, yes, absolutely - I WOULD have understood if he had fallen in love with someone else while married to me. We both worked in the public and were always around persons of the opposite sex. It could easily have happened at any time during our marriage. I have always believed we cannot force anyone to love us, and that we cannot get mad if they stop loving us. Sorry if it is hard for your to believe that I feel that way, but it is the absolute truth.

 

Why is it so hard for any of you to see that there are other valid opinions in the world that aren't in line with your own opinions? And why must you be so sarcastic and belligerent when arguing your opinions?

[Mustang Sally]

I've NEVER heard anyone chastise anyone for falling out of love with their spouse.

Maybe you need to read more here on LS....

Just sayin'.

 

And lying and cheating IS evil.

Certainly hard to argue with that.

 

It's not rocket science, if you don't love your spouse, divorce them, don't lie and cheat on them while your looking for their replacement.

While not condoning lying and cheating...I have to say that I think sometimes it might be hard for people to come to the realization that they, in truth, don't love their spouse anymore. I think for some, accepting that fact is very difficult. JMO.

 

Again. The weather is quite nice, here on Denial Planet...

[NoIDidn't]

IO,

 

I quoted you because I agreed with you as well.

 

 

I, for one, would certainly be hurt if my H fell in love with someone else would be VERY hurt and angry. Unless I treated him with complete disdain and indifference, I would NOT understand.

 

Based on our vows, he'd be breaking a BIG ONE. One we spoke about often concerning what it meant to us. "Forsaking all others" to me meant that no matter what I felt for someone else, I have vowed to be faithful to him. To FORSAKE my feelings for another, unless I dissolved what we had agreed to.

 

I don't understnad just how that "no ownership" thing works. Is it really that people feel that way? Or is it just a cop out for the person saying it, so that THEY don't have to be loyal?

[silktricks]

I don't understnad just how that "no ownership" thing works. Is it really that people feel that way? Or is it just a cop out for the person saying it' date=' so that THEY don't have to be loyal?[/quote']

 

NID, some people reallio trulio for sure feel that way. I don't happen to be one of them , but I know a number of people who feel exactly that way.

 

It's not necessarily a bad thing, you know. It's just different strokes and all that.

[Tomcat33]

Maybe you need to read more here on LS....

Just sayin'.

 

I second that comment.

 

I have seen a LOT of comments here of people who claim some sort of ownership on another human being, it just isn't so.

 

Zolie - I'm with you, people don't own people they own themselves.

[Impudent Oyster]

I second that comment.

 

I have seen a LOT of comments here of people who claim some sort of ownership on another human being, it just isn't so.

 

 

Show me one. Just one and I'll be happy.

[Zolie]

I' date=' for one, would certainly be hurt if my H fell in love with someone else would be VERY hurt and angry. Unless I treated him with complete disdain and indifference, I would NOT understand.[/quote']

 

Now, see, NoIDidn't, I agree with you about the hurt part. When I was still in love with my husband (before he destroyed it by withholding sex from me for years) I would have definitely been hurt if he had fallen in love with someone while married to me. But, I wouldn't have been angry. How could I be angry about that? Feelings are feelings and we can't help them.

 

I don't understnad just how that "no ownership" thing works. Is it really that people feel that way? Or is it just a cop out for the person saying it, so that THEY don't have to be loyal?

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but for myself, yes, I do not believe marriage equals ownership. Ownership is defined as "the act of having and controlling property". We can't own human beings. That went out of favor when the South lost the war.

 

For me, that opinion is not a cop out just so I don't have to be loyal. I am actually one of the most loyal people around. I am loyal to my own detriment, sometimes. I loyally stayed in a dead marriage for far too long, because I thought that's what I had to do. Until I finally got smart.

 

Also, opinions regarding marriage are not black-and-white-either-or. There is a lot of grey area where people think differently based on cultures, their upbringing, their education, their experiences, etc. We form our opinions thusly.

[Impudent Oyster]

IO,

 

I quoted you because I agreed with you as well.

 

 

I, for one, would certainly be hurt if my H fell in love with someone else would be VERY hurt and angry. Unless I treated him with complete disdain and indifference, I would NOT understand.

 

Based on our vows, he'd be breaking a BIG ONE. One we spoke about often concerning what it meant to us. "Forsaking all others" to me meant that no matter what I felt for someone else, I have vowed to be faithful to him. To FORSAKE my feelings for another, unless I dissolved what we had agreed to.

 

 

Of course you would be hurt and angry, who wouldn't? I am not buying that anyone would understand that their spouse fell in love with someone else and would just say "Oh I understand honey, people change, you don't love me anymore, that's okay, I hope you're very happy in your new relationship".

 

Not a chance.

[Tomcat33]

Show me one. Just one and I'll be happy.

 

You have eyes and fingers and you know how to search threads, look for them.