Society's Mixed Signals

[sb129]

The fine is your fault. And you actually knew what the fine would be if you got caught, so yeah, boo hoo. If you were that worried about being fined $5000, you wouldn't have DUI.

 

If you set the rules for your existence, then they will be dictating to someone elses ideals. You can't all live by different sets of rules. Its not possible. Unless perhaps you become a hermit.

 

You didn't get into accidents, but you DID get caught. So bummer for you, you are down $5K. Whoops.

[iowajournal]

If wanting to live in a fair, logical, and just world makes me some kind of immature child, then I guess I must be still in diapers...cause I'm probably the most childish one of them all then.

 

And on an unrelated side note: The photo of the fire hydrant / icon under my username is a photo I snapped with my cell phone camera. I was living in Portland Oregon last summer and I came across this bizarre cardstock image lying in the street of a fire hydrant. Portland is cool and weird like that. I thought the image came out pretty cool...although it really doesn't have any intentional meaning on my part for why I use it as an icon. I suppose one could surmise after reading my posts that the encapsulated fire hydrant in the form of an image lying on the road represents possibly my inability to use the hydrant to put out the fires of society...or some symbolism like that.

Edited February 14, 2008 by iowajournal

[sb129]

If wanting to live in a fair, logical, and just world makes me some kind of immature child, then I guess I must be still in diapers...cause I'm probably the most childish one of them all then.

 

And on an unrelated side note: The photo of the fire hydrant / icon under my username is a photo I snapped with my cell phone camera. I was living in Portland Oregon last summer and I came across this bizarre cardstock image lying in the street of a fire hydrant. Portland is cool and weird like that. I thought the image came out pretty cool...although it really doesn't have any intentional meaning on my part for why I use it as an icon. I suppose one could surmise after reading my posts that the encapsulated fire hydrant in the form of an image lying on the road represents possibly my inability to use the hydrant to put out the fires of society...or some symbolism like that.

 

If the spelling and grammar wasn't so good, i would think he was still drunk.

[blind_otter]

If wanting to live in a fair, logical, and just world makes me some kind of immature child, then I guess I must be still in diapers...cause I'm probably the most childish one of them all then.

 

I'll spell it out for you, since you keep taking this to some philosophical level that it really doesn't belong in....

 

You're little comment "At least I didn't get into accidents like you did" is stupid and childish. You don't even know what happened when I got into an accident, or that it wasn't my fault!

 

You knew what the consequences would be if you got caught. You flaunted the law. You got caught. You blame everyone but the one person who really should be implicated - YOU.

 

You cry like it's the end of the world - a lot of people get ****ted by the government, every day. But we don't cry foul. We gird out loins and deal with it. It's not a matter of conforming - it's just reality.

 

And I laughed out loud when you called me a conformist. Hell, my life is on LS I've been posting here since 1999. Anyone here could tell you I'm the furthest from conformist.

 

I'm a lot more pragmatic than you though. I know what cards I have been dealt, and the reality of life. It sucks and is unfair, but that's the way it is. You know the parameters within which you are asked to function. Philosophically - we make sacrifices of personal freedom to enjoy the luxury that living in a community provides. The money you earn, the protection you enjoy, every thing about living in the US that you obviously take for granted - is paid for by giving up certain liberties. That's part of living in society.

 

If you do not want to endure the price, then live outside of society. Don't depend on society for protection, protect yourself. Don't depend on society for a fair wage. Live off the land. Don't enjoy the huge comforts that come from living in the boundaries of the US.

 

Above all - stop bitching.

[Tripper]

I know what cards I have been dealt, and the reality of life. It sucks and is unfair, but that's the way it is. You know the parameters within which you are asked to function. Philosophically - we make sacrifices of personal freedom to enjoy the luxury that living in a community provides. The money you earn, the protection you enjoy, every thing about living in the US that you obviously take for granted - is paid for by giving up certain liberties. That's part of living in society.

 

If you do not want to endure the price, then live outside of society. Don't depend on society for protection, protect yourself. Don't depend on society for a fair wage. Live off the land. Don't enjoy the huge comforts that come from living in the boundaries of the US.

 

Above all - stop bitching.

 

 

Bingo!!

And that BO, is the reality and the heart of the matter.

 

Laws are enacted so that ALL members of society enjoy equal freedoms, protection and sanctions.

Now as I understand it, IJ, has had problems in the past with DUI, knew the law and the penalties yet still decided to drive... And when he gets busted crys foul?? Don't do the crime if you can't do the time!!!

[Always Wrong]

One thing is certain.... I won't ever drink again, much less drink and drive again.

I am the designated driver if you ever need one! lol

I didn't care for it at all. But I took the hit and kept on going.

 

And by the way... your liberties are paid for by the men who die defending them.

[iowajournal]

I stopped into the convenience store tonite. The same convenience store where the employee called the cops on me Tuesday night that resulted in my 2nd OWI arrest. At first I had plans to piss all over his toilet area or knock down some chips or magazines on accident. But then I calmly walked over poured a cup of coffee and walked up to him to pay. I told him calmly that I was pulled over by the police dept. Tuesday night and they told me someone from the convenience store called them. He told me it was he who called them. I politely asked him "Was I being rude or obnoxious to you or something?" He said no. I told him I remembered buying a couple microwave sandwiches...nothing too out of the ordinary, and asked him why he called the police on me. He told me he smelled alcohol on my breath. I said "Was I stumbling or something?" reply. "No" So why did you do this to me? He said "You were drunk and it is my responsibility to the public to report people who are drunk and get behind the wheel."

 

And I said. "I understand that you felt you were being a good citizen by doing this, but I want you to know what that means to me now".

 

I told him that I would be looking at $5000-$7000 in fees. 7 days in jail minimum. losing my license for up to 3 years and no less than 1 year, and that my new delivery job at Pizza Hut that I was supposed to be starting is now no longer an option. I told him that I don't have any family in the area and most of my business is conducted in the next larger town over, and with the snow and ice and no good public transit system...my survival is seriously comprimised.

 

He told me he was sorry but he needs to protect the public from drunk drivers. I wanted him to understand the consequences to me...the nameless "drunk guy" whom he reported on. My friend Adam is going to come into the store in a couple days and let him know as well on my behalf that "you just ruined my buddies life for a long time". And then after that I am going to ask my other friends to come forward one by one and order their small items and get some words into that guy.

 

Narcing someone off for something like this is despicable. This guy looked exactly as you might imagine a graveyard shift convenience store clerk might look in Iowa. He was short, fat, had a goatee / handlebar mustache and was bald with almost frustrated homosexual characteristics about him.

 

In short: A Putz.

Edited February 15, 2008 by iowajournal

[Ocean-Blue]

I stopped into the convenience store tonite. The same convenience store where the employee called the cops on me Tuesday night that resulted in my 2nd OWI arrest. At first I had plans to piss all over his toilet area or knock down some chips or magazines on accident. But then I calmly walked over poured a cup of coffee and walked up to him to pay. I told him calmly that I was pulled over by the police dept. Tuesday night and they told me someone from the convenience store called them. He told me it was he who called them. I politely asked him "Was I being rude or obnoxious to you or something?" He said no. I told him I remembered buying a couple microwave sandwiches...nothing too out of the ordinary, and asked him why he called the police on me. He told me he smelled alcohol on my breath. I said "Was I stumbling or something?" reply. "No" So why did you do this to me? He said "You were drunk and it is my responsibility to the public to report people who are drunk and get behind the wheel."

 

And I said. "I understand that you felt you were being a good citizen by doing this, but I want you to know what that means to me now".

 

I told him that I would be looking at $5000-$7000 in fees. 7 days in jail minimum. losing my license for up to 3 years and no less than 1 year, and that my new delivery job at Pizza Hut that I was supposed to be starting is now no longer an option. I told him that I don't have any family in the area and most of my business is conducted in the next larger town over, and with the snow and ice and no good public transit system...my survival is seriously comprimised.

 

He told me he was sorry but he needs to protect the public from drunk drivers. I wanted him to understand the consequences to me...the nameless "drunk guy" whom he reported on. My friend Adam is going to come into the store in a couple days and let him know as well on my behalf that "you just ruined my buddies life for a long time". And then after that I am going to ask my other friends to come forward one by one and order their small items and get some words into that guy.

 

Narcing someone off for something like this is despicable. This guy looked exactly as you might imagine a graveyard shift convenience store clerk might look in Iowa. He was short, fat, had a goatee / handlebar mustache and was bald with almost frustrated homosexual characteristics about him.

 

In short: A Putz.

 

This is ridiculous. He reported a drunk and now he has to worry about your buddies intimidating him at his place of work?

 

I rarely read something online that makes me irate. Your post is nothing short of immature. You are irrational and being extremely unfair to this person.

 

He SMELLED the alcohol on your breath. You were clearly drunk. You had just binged on booze prior to getting the sandwiches. And you expected him to just shut up and not saying anything? If more citizens got involved and spoke up like this man did, we'd all live in a much safer world.

 

You need to take a good hard look in the mirror OP. Talking to him yourself and asking him why he did what he did is one thing. To get your entourage to harass this man is not only cool but it is also a criminal offence.

 

I see a visit to the lawyer's office in your future.

Edited February 15, 2008 by Ocean-Blue

[iowajournal]

They're not going to do anything illegal. They are just going to inform this man that his telephone call seriously disrupted their friends life. I see nothing wrong with this man understanding what his limp wristed call has done to someone else. And you mean that it is not cool or it is uncool...you had a typo there.

 

Hey you think that the consequences that I am facing are nothing much? OWI 2nd offense is a serious deal here in Iowa. It costs a lot of money, and contains a lot of hardship. It is hardly a light thing this man did to me. He needs to understand to distinguish between someone who is stumbling drunk and someone who comes in for some sandwhiches with a little beer breath before they go to bed. He was being a prick to me...I question how much he really cares about the public.

 

And why in the hell do people keep referring to me as OP ? I don't get it.

Edited February 15, 2008 by iowajournal

[Ocean-Blue]

They're not going to do anything illegal. They are just going to inform this man that his telephone call seriously disrupted their friends life. I see nothing wrong with this man understanding what his limp wristed call has done to someone else.

 

And why in the hell do people keep referring to me as OP ? I don't get it.

 

Actually, yes, it is a criminal offence. Consider the following quote, '[m]y friend Adam is going to come into the store in a couple days and let him know as well on my behalf that "you just ruined my buddies life for a long time". And then after that I am going to ask my other friends to come forward one by one and order their small items and get some words into that guy.' Emphasis added by me.

 

This is harassment. If you have "personal contact" w/ someone without a "legitmate" purpose with a certain intent (to alarm them...or in your case, to "inform" them), this can be construed as harassment by the law. Considering that you expect this to happen over a certain period of time and that your friends will be standing fairly close to the man when they deliver their "concern", you are definitely looking at harassment charges.

 

Perhaps you should let it go and deal with the issues you already have in front of you, rather than adding on more.

 

I really think you have some issues (aside from legal ones). Really.

 

BTW: OP = original poster.

[iowajournal]

Of course I have issues as I'm sure you do to. Don't go there with me. I don't need your 5 cent psychoanalysis.

 

What if I create a law that says my friends have the right to tell a person that what they did seriously adversely affected their friends life?

 

Then what would you do legal eagle?

 

You see your basing all of what you know on the law as it exists...but in my world the law has yet to be drawn up.

[Ocean-Blue]

Of course I have issues as I'm sure you do to. Don't go there with me. I don't need your 5 cent psychoanalysis.

 

What if I create a law that says my friends have the right to tell a person that what they did seriously adversely affected their friends life?

 

Then what would you do legal eagle?

 

Glad you accept your very flawed nature. I accept mine as well.

 

And I wasn't psychoanalyzing... But sure.

 

The fact of the matter is you can't create that kind of law. I've read your other thread about an alternate society. Some of your ideas make sense...but now that I've read your stance on harassment and drunk driving, I don't think I'd want to live in a society like that.

 

You dwelling on the store clerk (who, I will emphasize again, was doing a good public service in reporting you) is not going to help you. You need to focus on how you're going to deal with your transportation, employment, etc issues.

 

And let's not forget that this is your SECOND drunk driving offence. You are no fragile lamb... You obviously did not learn your lesson the first time.

 

I urge you think more rationally about your actions and the potential consequences of those actions. If you in fact wish to pursue this new alternate society idea, you have to have your head screwed on right. Otherwise you'll be living in some cottage on some hill. Alone.

[iowajournal]

Ok. That's been established. The crime has been committed. But what about the punishment? You think I need to lose my license for 1-3 years and have to pay 5-7K plus min. of 7 days in jail plus pay higher insurance for 10 more years because I almost made it home in the dead of night, bothering no one...but a concerned citizen called the police and I was caught?

 

You think that is proportional? That I didn't hit a parked car, or drive up on someone's lawn or kill someone ...that there was no damage caused but still I should go down for 3 years stemming from one night?

 

The Proportionality isn't fair.

 

And as far as insults go. I don't believe I have done anything but stick to the subject matter on any posts I have done...yet I see a couple of you throwing stones at me. ie. "Very flawed nature".

 

Hey you want to start getting dirty like that...I can go there to...no problem.

Edited February 15, 2008 by iowajournal

[iowajournal]

The responses to my posts tell me that society has a very strong belief that drunk driving is evil and bad. All consistant with what the conditioning campaigns by the state want you to believe. Your all doing oh so well. Shall I check the latest Television Public Awareness campaign to find out what your other viewpoints may be?

[Ocean-Blue]

Ok. That's been established. The crime has been committed. But what about the punishment? You think I need to lose my license for 1-3 years and have to pay 5-7K plus min. of 7 days in jail plus pay higher insurance for 10 more years because I almost made it home in the dead of night, bothering no one...but a concerned citizen called the police and I was caught?

 

You think that is proportional? That I didn't hit a parked car, or drive up on someone's lawn or kill someone ...that there was no damage caused but still I should go down for 3 years stemming from one night?

 

The Proportionality isn't fair.

 

And as far as insults go. I don't believe I have done anything but stick to the subject matter on any posts I have done...yet I see a couple of you throwing stones at me. ie. "Very flawed nature".

 

Hey you want to start getting dirty like that...I can go there to...no problem.

 

Have you spoken to a lawyer about the charges? You have not been convicted yet...so maybe you can discuss your options with a lawyer. DUI cases are VERY common and defence attorneys usually have tricks up their sleeve (along with good contacts, etc)...

 

I was not insulting you when I said what I said. In fact, it was an observation based on your posts. I find insults to be more along lines of playgroundish, unsubstantiated accusations thrown around in the heat of an ugly fight between children.

 

And I have no desire to get dirty with you. Thanks.

[iowajournal]

Learn what lessons? That society keeps on promoting beer and alcohol? That ordering even two beers from a restaurant with your meal can put you at risk for driving? That there are so many contradictory / mixed signals being put out?

 

"Pick up the gun, pick up the gun, pick up the gun..."

"Stay away from the gun, stay away from the gun, stay away from the gun..."

 

"...If the real Jesus Christ were to stand up today...he'd be gunned down cold by the CIA..."

 

-The The Armageddon Days

[Ocean-Blue]

The responses to my posts tell me that society has a very strong belief that drunk driving is evil and bad. All consistant with what the conditioning campaigns by the state want you to believe. Your all doing oh so well. Shall I check the latest Television Public Awareness campaign to find out what your other viewpoints may be?

 

Drunk driving isn't bad? Look at the stats.

 

Drunk driving accidents can make up b/w 30-40% of traffic accident fatalities in a given location. They also contribute significantly to an increase in insurance rates. So tell me, why should I or anyone else have to pay because some people want to get behind the wheel drunk? I hardly think this is fair.

 

The system is set up in such a way that first time offenders have it a little easier. Repeat offenders however are treated more harshly. For example, in your state (yes, I looked it up), the first drunk driving offence is a serious misdemeanor, then it becomes an aggravated misdemeanor if it happens a second time. Do it a third time and you're looking at a felony charge.

[erika2610]

The more I read, the madder I get. Nothing irritates me more than somebody who is so quick to blame others rather than take responsibilty for what they did. And to then take it to the point of harrassment is just ridiculous. I wish more people would report those who they felt were driving drunk. I had a girlfriend who drove one of her friends to the store to get cigarettes. In a pretty small town, late at night. Probably around 3am. They had had a bit to drink. Nobody else on the road. The driver ended up swerving to avoid hitting something and she hit a curb. Long story short - the passenger ended up flying into the air, and breaking her neck as she hit the ground. All because the driver felt she was ok after only a few drinks, and it was late. A week later - I was throwing together a memorial service for a 23 yr. old friend.

 

It doesn't matter how much you've had to drink. You shouldn't be behind the wheel. Stay home. Walk. Take a cab. But if you insist on getting behind the wheel, take responsibility for what happens as a result of it. Don't blame somebody who did what he felt was best.

[iowajournal]

As mad as you want to get and as much of a fluke that accident of your friends was it doesn't change the fact that I don't deserve to go thru the impending hardship that I am about to endure. I have 8 more days of my license and then the cold hard brutal did i mention cold hard brutal gravity of the situation is going to be upon me.

 

Hey for a lot of people with better connections and resources they think it is no big deal...something they can get thru. Have family take them to work or take a cab or the bus. $5000 ain't much to some people.

 

But to me all this is going to seriously mess my world up. I was just recovering from major depression / long spell of unemployment and was going to start a new job at Pizza Hut as a delivery driver. What good does this do society to plunge me back into despair and unemployment and poverty?

 

I'm telling all of you ...this does nobody any good.

 

I killed no one. I caused no accidents. I didn't even swerve. I was 3 blocks from my warm bed...but some convenience store Narc decided to call me in...and now my life is trucked up and will be for a long time.

 

Where is the good in this? You don't think the state is Draconian huh? This to me reeks of elitism. All of my antagonists on this board are probably earning pretty good money and sitting well in life and don't understand what its like to recover from major depression / poverty / unemployment /. And this is further reason why this country has major problems...because there is very little empathy and compassion or understanding.

 

Well I reject the assessments made on my body by the state. All the little report kards the state has assembled don't transfer post mortem... Or wait...maybe you all believe they do...like in the 20's right? with Jim Crow laws that allowed lynchings? That's all good right because at the time it was all street legal.

Edited February 15, 2008 by iowajournal

[Ocean-Blue]

As mad as you want to get and as much of a fluke that accident of your friends was it doesn't change the fact that I don't deserve to go thru the impending hardship that I am about to endure. I have 8 more days of my license and then the cold hard brutal did i mention cold hard brutal gravity of the situation is going to be upon me.

 

Hey for a lot of people with better connections and resources they think it is no big deal...something they can get thru. Have family take them to work or take a cab or the bus. $5000 ain't much to some people.

 

But to me all this is going to seriously mess my world up. I was just recovering from major depression / long spell of unemployment and was going to start a new job at Pizza Hut as a delivery driver. What good does this do society to plunge me back into despair and unemployment and poverty?

 

I'm telling all of you ...this does nobody any good.

 

I killed no one. I caused no accidents. I didn't even swerve. I was 3 blocks from my warm bed...but some convenience store Narc decided to call me in...and now my life is trucked up and will be for a long time.

 

Where is the good in this? You don't think the state is Draconian huh? This to me reeks of elitism. All of my antagonists on this board are probably earning pretty good money and sitting well in life and don't understand what its like to recover from major depression / poverty / unemployment /.

 

I'd PM you, but I don't think you have enough posts yet...

 

You are right. I don't understand your situation. I've made my points about drunk driving and the fatal consequences it can have. I'll leave it at that.

 

Nothing is ever that desperate or insurmountable. Trust me. You can get over this ordeal and come out a little bit better for it. You need to deal with the upcoming hardship with a stronger, emotionally stable approach.

 

Your last post made me feel sad. I don't know why. I can sense you're feeling pretty down...there is a sense of despair.

 

Please know that I did not mean to talk down to you or preach.

 

I hope you sort all this out iowa. I really do.

[iowajournal]

Let's talk about slavery. Remember that? It was legal remember. Yes down in the south of france where the girls don't wear no underpants...you know Georgia, Florida, Alabama, North Carolina. Yes it was all written into law. Turn that black man right in wouldn't you? Because it was law and your all such good uprightstanding citizens. Turn that black man right in, so he can be returned to his master. And go to church on Sunday and pray, pray pray that the black man will one day see the white man's way, so he can be released.

[erika2610]

Don't assume to know what people have and haven't been through. Personally, I've gone through depression and unemployment. I did drink. But I either drank at home, or had a designated driver when I went out. When I was a teenager, I did drive a few times after drinking. I figured meh, it was the middle of the night and I was going slow. But if I had been caught, I wouldn't have blamed somebody else. I would have taken whatever was handed to me. Maybe not happily, but it was my choices that landed me in hot water. Again, the clerk just did what he felt was best. You could have killed somebody, you could have caused an accident. And I'm sorry, but I really don't have much sympathy for somebody who put his life and others at risk (no matter what hour it was), and then cries foul when he's punished for it. Especially when it's somebody who's done it not once, but twice.

[iowajournal]

1.1 (one point one) legal limit used to be 1.0 (one point zero) Hardly the type of dangerous drunk driver you would make me out to be.

 

I'm sorry that your friend hit that curb like a bad drunk driver. But I have quite a high tolerance and I was getting myself home just fine, with no problems. It is hard for incompetent people to comprehend that some people out there are really better at things than others. I can handle my vehicle just fine at 1.1 level. But hey useless to be arguing with you.

 

And the funny thing is...I'm not condoning drinking and driving. For most people it is a dangerous thing. But I'm a zen master...I'm not your ordinary person. I have been up and down with the effects of alcohol for a long time and know its effects on my body very well.

[erika2610]

There's no such thing as a "good" or "bad" drunk driver. She didn't realize she had had as much as she did. Which is the case many times. I'm done. It does no good lecturing you about the dangers of drinking and driving. You remind me of my brother - he's one of the most stubborn people alive. Such a know it all.

 

I can put myself in your shoes, I can. I have been in tough spots. But really, blaming somebody else does no good. Harassing the clerk will get you nowhere. I have also been where he has. You'll get through all of this. Good Luck.

[iowajournal]

Yeah thanks. I'll get thru it i know. Im just pissed about it caused it just happened. I am like your brother, real stubborn. I figure why take it sitting down? They're going to stick me for $5000 so I might as well kick and scream a little bit and let them know I'm not happy.

 

I got back at the arresting officer that night. I decided to let go in my pants in the back of the squad car just to piss him off. It worked. I was a mess but oh well I figured them having to bleach and clean out the back of their car was my little way of showing them what I thought of their decision to not let me walk the rest of the way and keep my keys.