I'm so miserable...

[shadowplay]

The impression I'm getting is that you're getting a cheap thrill from this. Shut it down, shadow, one way or the other.

 

 

Do you realize your own hypocrisy? You wanted him to love you, when you felt he didn't, although I disagree that he didn't, more like this was your own lack of self-esteem that caused you to feel uncertainty. Now that he is showing you how much he appreciates you, you continue to rubber band on him.

 

I think this gives you a feeling of power and control, playing both men. Your conscience is telling you not to do this and yet, there's the illicit thrill of making two men compete.

 

Grow up shadow. This isn't good for you. Continue this way and your self-respect/self-esteem will take a helluva beating.

 

You make a good point, but I don't really understand my own motives so I can't speak for them -- at least on a subconscious level. I do feel a twinge of (guilty) excitement but it's more about being with a guy who I'm very attracted to and of a type I've never been with before. I don't quite understand my attraction to him given his skeeviness, which you guys have all pointed out. Maybe you would have to meet him in person to understand. His eyes, his voice, his demeanor, his sense of humor...everything about him is very masculine and sexy. My bf is sexy too, but in an entirely different way. Is it the draw of the bad boy?

 

I guess it's just about having the experience of being with someone like that. I don't desire a relationship with him at all since he has so many problems (I have enough of my own). I just want to experience him for a moment.

 

If I were to stay with my bf we would probably end up getting married in a few years, and I know I would always wonder what if. To me he represents the type of guy I've always been curious about but has always been out of reach. I just want that experience, even if it's short-lived. I'm scared of giving that up.

Edited February 20, 2008 by shadowplay

[shadowplay]

Interestingly I kind of agree with you... to a point.

 

I think he is someone that is not really in touch with his emotions. Not a sociopath so much as someone who has trouble understanding his feelings.

 

I believe it more likely that the attraction to the friend makes him afraid, not angry. That anger will come later.

 

He is trying to control the situation the best way he knows how. I can't fault him for that.

 

I agree that he's not in touch with his emotions. But I disagree with you guys on one point -- I do think he loves me. Perhaps it's a sick kind of love, born of low self esteem, but I can tell that it's genuine.

 

I have felt a real connection with him at times, especially in the last few weeks, and I can see the expression of pure love and joy in his eyes. A few months ago I questioned his love because I didn't feel it. He said he loved me, but something in his demeanor always suggested otherwise. Now I really do feel it, but it's bad timing.

 

He's said that even if I sleep with his friend he'll still love me. He also doesn't seem very upset at his friend. I think in general he just has unnatural reactions to things.

 

Btw, my mother thought my bf might have Asperger's when she met him. Wonder if this could have something to do with it?

[Cobra_X30]

If I were to stay with my bf we would probably end up getting married in a few years, and I know I would always wonder what if. To me Sean represents the type of guy I've always been curious about but has always been out of reach. I just want that experience, even if it's short-lived. I'm scared of giving that up.

 

See that is your brain playing around in fantasy land. We can tell because your typecasting this other guy. Do you see that?

 

You imagine how wonderful this other guy could be despite all evidence to the contrary.

 

You believe that this guy is in reach... in reach of what exactly? I would probably bet that most guys like him would be more than willing to use you for sex. That's essentially the only offer on the table from this guy right now isn't it? Wouldn't that just leave you feeling cheap and dirty? Is that the feeling that your chasing after?

 

I think you need to sit down and inject some reality into how your thinking of this guy Sean.

[Star Gazer]

But I disagree with you guys on one point -- I do think he loves me. Perhaps it's a sick kind of love, born of low self esteem, but I can tell that it's genuine.

 

That's not love, Shadow. You cannot love someone else unless you truly love yourself first. If his self-esteem is that low, he cannot possibly love himself...

[shadowplay]

See that is your brain playing around in fantasy land. We can tell because your typecasting this other guy. Do you see that?

 

You imagine how wonderful this other guy could be despite all evidence to the contrary.

 

You believe that this guy is in reach... in reach of what exactly? I would probably bet that most guys like him would be more than willing to use you for sex. That's essentially the only offer on the table from this guy right now isn't it? Wouldn't that just leave you feeling cheap and dirty? Is that the feeling that your chasing after?

 

I think you need to sit down and inject some reality into how your thinking of this guy Sean.

 

Okay, what if I just hung out with him as he proposed but did nothing physical? We wouldn't have opportunity to anyway because we'd be in public.

[Cobra_X30]

Okay, what if I just hung out with him as he proposed but did nothing physical? We wouldn't have opportunity to anyway because we'd be in public.

 

Well Shadow why do you want to do even that?

[Kamille]

The only thing I'm getting from all this is that it's becoming more and more obvious that you don't love your boyfriend.

 

My bf becomes more ardent when I pull back and it drives me nuts! The last thing I want is for him to feel insecure and the last last thing I want is to play with those insecurities for my own benefits.

 

Not to mention: you want to scr*w another man!

 

Shadow, why are you using your bf this way?

[shadowplay]

I feel really depressed about this whole thing. I can't go through with it. Also reading all of your responses about how my bf doesn't love me has made me feel more miserable. I don't think it's fair for you guys to speak for his feelings when you've never even met him. I just had an im conversation with him that went badly. I started by apologizing for the debacle with is friend and promising I would end it. He seemed happy and relieved. But then I started questioning him about his feelings for me (the thread made me insecure) and he got increasingly annoyed. I told him I missed him and wanted to see him tonight. He said he'd love to but he's worried it will turn into an all-night interrogation session by me (because I'm in an insecure mood).

 

And I DO love him, Kamille. I'm just messed up.

[Kamille]

And I DO love him, Kamille. I'm just messed up.

 

ah Shadow... again I'm sorry. Maybe I was harsh and imposing my own vision of love onto yours. Right now bf and I are focused on building a relationship into which we would want to bring children. So the stakes are different. To me it seems that your idea of love is more closely linked to self affirmations. That's not a bad thing, but focusing on what love brings you and how much he loves you and needing proofs of loves can cause some very unhealthy patterns. which is why I think his decision to stay away because you are in insecure mode is wise.

 

And I don't understand why you don't want what's best for him. I don't understand how you can sit back and say: "ah, and when I pull back, he becomes more ardent" in a way that seemed to me like you actually got something out of toying with his emotions. I was reading the whole discussion about whether or not he loved you thinking: that is completely irrelevant: what does all this say about SP's love for her boyfriend.

 

And please, put that other guy in his place. He won't stop pursing you until you do.

[Cobra_X30]

I feel really depressed about this whole thing. I can't go through with it. Also reading all of your responses about how my bf doesn't love me has made me feel more miserable. I don't think it's fair for you guys to speak for his feelings when you've never even met him. I just had an im conversation with him that went badly. I started by apologizing for the debacle with is friend and promising I would end it. He seemed happy and relieved. But then I started questioning him about his feelings for me (the thread made me insecure) and he got increasingly annoyed. I told him I missed him and wanted to see him tonight. He said he'd love to but he's worried it will turn into an all-night interrogation session by me (because I'm in an insecure mood).

 

And I DO love him, Kamille. I'm just messed up.

 

Personally, I never said that he didn't love you. Someone else said that.

 

I was talking about how much he loves you. I said your actions are going to hurt how much he loves you... decrease it. I think that is a fair statement to make. I also think he may have problems getting in touch with his emotions.

 

Look this friend thing is going to keep coming up and up and up, because you won't deal with it.

 

Shadow! Your not a bad person... your not even that messed up, you just verbalize it more than others.

 

So... why do you want to hang with the friend? Does he represent fantasy or reality in your opinion?

[Trialbyfire]

shadow, something like this happened to me, not too long ago, in that there was pursuit from a third party. It was an easy choice. The third party was shut down cold. If anything, based on the way the second party handled it, since he was informed but displayed trust in me, it increased my respect level for him two-fold.

 

I'm using myself as an example, because it's the insight I can personally provide. In knowing your commitment level, it should also have been an easy choice for you. That it isn't easy, speaks volumes. That you want to hang onto your b/f, also smacks of insecurity.

 

Bird in hand v. one in the bush. Either do it or don't. Don't drag your b/f through your muck and mire.

[Florida]

Shadow- full disclosure-I can kind of relate in thoughts but not actions. I harbored really intense feelings for someone my ex was close friends with (at the time I was still with him). I never acted on it. Luckily for me, he was loyal to my (now) ex, and never showed any interest in me. I still cringe when I think aboout that. That alone made me see I could not continue if I could feel that way for another.

 

My point is, this friend of your BF's is a douche, and this may impact you in ways you can't forsee right now. And not in some deep poetic way. It may even kickstart more self hatred.

 

I think your BF loves you, I was just saying everything is intensified because he wants to hang on to you and not have it play out like this too. That doesn't mean he loves you less!!! But if you really loved him, not just attachment, you would want to spare him on your own accord.

Edited February 20, 2008 by Florida

[shadowplay]

Shadow- full disclosure-I can kind of relate in thoughts but not actions. I harbored really intense feelings for someone my ex was close friends with (at the time I was still with him). I never acted on it. Luckily for me, he was loyal to my (now) ex, and never showed any interest in me. I still cringe when I think aboout that. That alone made me see I could not continue if I could feel that way for another.

 

My point is, this friend of your BF's is a douche, and this may impact you in ways you can't forsee right now. And not in some deep poetic way. It may even kickstart more self hatred.

 

I think your BF loves you, I was just saying everything is intensified because he wants to hang on to you and not have it play out like this too. That doesn't mean he loves you less!!! But if you really loved him, not just attachment, you would want to spare him on your own accord.

 

Thanks for your perspective, Florida. What prevented you from actually going through with it at the time? Did your bf ever find out? And was the flirtation mutual? What kind of signals did you send out? Sorry for all the questions...

[shadowplay]

I guess what confuses me most is my paralysis about what to do. I'm so damn indecisive. Whenever I have the opportunity to go out with this guy, my conscience kicks in and lose my nerve. When I shut the door again, I want the opportunity back. How do I break out of this limbo?

[Trialbyfire]

Do you always regret your past decisions?

[shadowplay]

Do you always regret your past decisions?

 

I tend to regret things I never tried. I have the tendency to always think "what if?"

 

In all aspects of my life I'm very indecisive.

[Florida]

Thanks for your perspective, Florida. What prevented you from actually going through with it at the time? Did your bf ever find out? And was the flirtation mutual? What kind of signals did you send out? Sorry for all the questions...

 

Oh gosh, this is tough to admit, no one wants to think they are/were this way, then it happens. And you slog through the best you can. This was all with an ex, same thing as you, I could see myself getting married, the whole bit, and I felt I was not sure if he was the one. And it didn't help that every time we saw hung out with his friend, it was like going on a double date. Secretly, for me.

 

What prevented you from actually going through with it at the time?

Honestly, I think I was inherently unsure of the strength of my feelings for the (ex). But I couldn't just leave. I was looking for a bridge relationship. Although I wasn't conscious of that. I just saw myself as a girl who loved her BF who also liked hanging out with his friend too much.

 

I thought that would satisfy me. I could get excitement fulfilled from seeing the friend at social occasions, and camping trips. And I could get constant love and security from my BF. Funny, the mind can be so tricky, so deep in denial.

 

The thing that kept me from going through with it was that quite frankly he would get rude and dismissive of me if I started horsing around too much. I always made it seem above board, so I could play it off, even to myself.

 

And was the flirtation mutual?

 

A bit, not so much. Like I would wear tight shirts and I would see him taking peeks, or I would sit too close to him, sometimes he would move or tell me to move, other times he wouldn't. I was always asking him questions about himself, like we were on a date. I read way too much into it, I wouldn't say it was mutual. Also, I sensed his alliance was with my (ex). Mostly it was me just being too excited when we all hung out. I thought maybe in another life, without that circumstance we met in. That was stupid childish thinking.

 

I really wish my BF had broken up with me, he did not deserve that. But he gave me so much leeway, he could never imagine I would be like that. Karmically, this all came back to me. Tenfold. I want you to know that.

 

 

Did your bf ever find out?

 

No, I think that is one thing I will take to the grave. I am ashamed I even attempted that. I think I was so desperate to not break up with him but wanted to leave, I was fishing in the worst way. Plus, yes there was INSANE chemistry with this friend. I would get all hot being around him. Literally, my skin would heat up.

 

It was my 1st real relationship, I didn't know that excitment is garbage, it's all about the substance. Never take the excitement seriously. His friend treated girls really badly. But I was SURE I could be the one to make him fall in love with me.

 

At some point, I realized that if I could feel that inappropriate attraction, no matter if it killed me, I had to leave my BF. He did not need to be with a girl he thought was the beesknees but who could be so attracted to his friend she was flirting with him to, to waht-make him declare his love?

 

Honestly Shadow, I am so thankful he did not take me up on it. I probably would have betrayed my ex to start a relationship if I had the opportunity at the time. And it probably would have left me feeling suicidal and spent, I don't think I really have what it takes to do that without remorse, and you know what-I don't think you do either.

 

The thought of leaving my BF for his friend, I realize now, would have pushed him over the edge. I'm glad it did not have a chance to play out that way.

 

And as for his friend, I look back and see how distorted my thinking was. That guy never was and never could have been good for me.

 

My point is, I lost the thing I wanted to keep (my ex) because once those feelings are explored, even internally to the point where I would have switched over, something is lost, and you can't do both. I broke up with him, it was the hardest decision ever. I actually wondered if I could have both, in my fantasy land.

 

Now I'm all hardlined about not doing it, because having been on that side, I would never want to cause someone I purport to love and cherish the worst pain they will ever feel.

 

So, life is hard, I recommend you break up because if you really really cherished your BF Shadow, it wouldn't have gotten here.

 

Trust me, I know.

 

add-on: I would really caution you to disengage from friend completely NOW or break up with your BF while you figure things out, this will come back to you in really bad ways. If you want, I could explain, but I mean karma wise, which is hard to define. That's not a warning, it is true.

Edited February 20, 2008 by Florida

[Trialbyfire]

I tend to regret things I never tried. I have the tendency to always think "what if?"

 

In all aspects of my life I'm very indecisive.

Then what's stopping you from trying with the new guy and dumping the old?

[shadowplay]

Then what's stopping you from trying with the new guy and dumping the old?

 

Guilt and not wanting to hurt my bf.

[Trialbyfire]

Guilt and not wanting to hurt my bf.

Guilt is a useless emotion. Remorse is worth something though.

 

If it's solely about guilt and not wanting to hurt your b/f, why are you dragging your b/f through this mess? Wouldn't it be kinder to move on, therefore not dragging the pain out more?

[shadowplay]

Guilt is a useless emotion. Remorse is worth something though.

 

If it's solely about guilt and not wanting to hurt your b/f, why are you dragging your b/f through this mess? Wouldn't it be kinder to move on, therefore not dragging the pain out more?

 

I'm putting off the decision by leaving the possibility open. I tend to avoid things, especially decisions.

[Trialbyfire]

I'm putting off the decision by leaving the possibility open. I tend to avoid things, especially decisions.

You're trying to have your cake and eat it too. Don't stoop to this level.

[Florida]

Good points are made here for certain , but I sure as heck didn't take the time to write all that stuff up at #67 for nothing! So to add on to this line of thought-go read it!

 

You don't have to experience everything 1st hand shadow.

 

Putting off making decisions usually means they get made FOR you.

[blind_otter]

You don't have to experience everything 1st hand shadow.

 

Word. Take that advice from someone who used to have the same philosophy you currently do, regarding regretting things they did not do. I lived out some bizarre **** that was completely unnecessary.

 

Putting off making decisions usually means they get made FOR you.

 

True again, very well said.

[Trialbyfire]

In not having to make the decision, you don't have to take responsibility for what happens. No responsibility, no consequences.

 

Too bad passiveness bears its own responsibility and consequences.