What to give - the fighting husband

[Fighting Husband]

I am new to this site although my situation isn’t. Someone else posted a thread about my wife’s affair and I was told about it by a mutual friend (thank you for caring GBF1, and others who contributed). The original thread is below.

[FONT=AGaramond][sIZE=3]http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1393402#post1393402[/sIZE][/FONT]

 

The basic story is my wife and I were having a tough time. Arguments over silly small things which created a tense atmosphere. We had a hectic 7 years together (the last two married) involving moving 3 times back & forth across continents, searching & buying our dream home, renovations and a nice wedding. We both though love doing the same things, have the same interests and did nearly everything together.

 

The arguments were really based on my impatience – I think mainly down to my wanting to ‘get on in life’ and insecurity of not achieving this for our future, and from her always accusing me of having affairs (which I never had) and taking the slightest criticism very badly (i.e. I would do most of the running around for us and the odd time I would ask her to do something it would get left for days as she prioritised work first). In the morning if I was in a good mood she would often question it. I would have to think about how I would tell her I was gong to the gym, or out for a beer with friends etc. I told her a few times it is often the accuser is the one who has the affair. However, with her attitude towards this I trusted her 100%. She is a person that is always looking for approval from others (think the ‘church mouse’) although I said to her a few times that I thought that by not standing up for herself she would bring these issues home to me – I seemed to be the only person she dared argue with. However, I should point out that the majority of the time I was very affectionate with her, always looking to cuddle, buy her things, be a gentleman, etc.

 

After us living back overseas (in Europe) for 2 years I arrived back from a trip (I brought my father back with me) with a feeling something was wrong. Because my father was there I didn’t chase it. Then the day before my father was due to fly home I checked the PC and found an e-mail from her to an estate agents enquiring about an apartment. The rent was too high for her to afford alone. Like others on this site the discovery was crushing (I had never gone through her correspondence before although she had gone through mine

 

I waited at the train station for her and challenged her. She admitted she was looking for a place for her and the guy she had sat opposite at work for 2 years. He is married (2 years) and his wife has a child from a previous marriage but the boy (6 years old) knows him as a father. I was devastated but knew he would find her attractive (she is a very good looking girl) but I always trusted her. Note that I also work at the same office. She said the marriage wasn’t working and she was “not the wife I deserved

 

She stayed at friends the first night and she asked to talk the next day. There were a lot of tears and she basically said she had fallen rapidly for him over the last 2 months which seemed to coincide with a big argument we’d had on holiday – again over something minor). I suggested we go to counselling and that I would do anything to get help for any & all of my problems but I could see she had fallen for him. I told her that he was just an outlet for her because of our problems; he was sitting there all nice and calm, like I was with the girl opposite me at work. She moved her clothes out and moved into an apartment with him.[/

 

I blamed myself 100% to begin with, read a lot of books, listened to lots of self help tapes, talked to friends with psychological training, and professionals, and generally improving myself. I had thought in the first days “well, this guy has been really nice to her and I have to learn my lesson”. Then all these people started contacting me about this guy (not me going to them for info) and the full story of what an ar****** he is starting coming out. Of course he was never going to be a great guy in my book but all this info was overwhelming. My wife’s father visited after a few weeks and said he could see right through the guy and dreaded her staying with him, although he was certain the guy was just a crutch. He told her she had to suffer the consequences of her actions and left her to it

 

Over 6 months we talked here and there, she said about things which I had done which weren’t nice and I agreed (just for the record there was never any physical violence or anything of that nature). Generally I tried to avoid contact so she could see what the guy was like for herself. Late during that time a girl from my work came over to watch DVD’s a couple of times, but nothing really in it. When my wife realised someone else had been over she then said she had been missing me, was confused, and would take my advice to go and see a counsellor (she wouldn’t go for us but would go for her own issues. I though at least this would be a start). She also said hat when she was sick after a party around that time she was calling out for me. She also wanted to come around more at this time to “see the cat”. However, she had made no moves to leave the guy

 

4 weeks ago the guy told her he was going back to his wife. I think he sensed he wasn’t in a good spot and jumped before e thought he’d be pushed. As someone mentioned on the original thread about him being the type of guy that changes horses during the race when his one seems to be falling behind. He basically told my wife he wanted to give it another go with his wife – he told my wife in the ‘coffee corner’ at work (when he left his wife originally he told her in a public theme park when the boy was on a ride

 

She immediately got onto me and wanted to talk. We took a day off and talked and I agreed to give it a go, although the first thing I wanted to do was get her away from him so that at least she could think straight. The next day she was devastated by his rejection and I said I preferred that she go back to the apartment she shared with him as he had since moved back to his wife, so we could both be alone & think. She begged to stay a while longer. I eventually agreed after she became suicidal and I discussed it wit her father who said her mother had self harm episodes

 

She stayed a week and when she was better I took her back to the apartment as there was 2 months still left on the lease and paid for. We thought it best for both of us that she got her straightened out. She was still all about him. It old her that she needed to understand the situation, how it happened and she would realise the guy wasn’t an important part of it. She hasn’t done much of this

 

A week or so later we met and she said she thought we should get divorced as she didn’t want to keep me hanging on. She said she was barely coping. She had been seeing a psychologist once a week for the past 4 weeks at this point. The shrink said after the 2nd visit that she had zero confidence. She had a childhood which contained a lot of episodes from her parents that I think a best seller could be written about. Without going into details it would clearly have an effect on her. She said no one would want her now, as she is a basket case and that she needs time on her own to fix her problems. She feels everything she buttoned up is now coming out (she is 37). She says she is just about coping

 

It may be hard for some to believe but she is actually a good person. She did very well in her childhood to be there for her mother in a horrific situation which lasted 13 years. I never go much affection from her and this could be very frustrating but it could be down to her childhood (parents various relationships which included one very strange one where her mother was dominated cruelly

 

I still love her & care for her. I actually feel this situation; with what we have both learnt/can learn, could actually create a wonderful relationship. I told her that in her condition she can’t really make any decisions on us yet but should keep her options open while continuing to see the psychologist.

 

I would really appreciate help from those out there whether I should keep trying, should I give her space, for how long? Basically some guidance on how to fix &/or handle this situation. Of course it doesn’t help when the other guy is still at the office but unlike the US you can’t get rid of him for that, although several senior managers would love to get rid of him. She feels she can cope with working in the same place and it is difficult to get other work here.

 

Thanks for your help.

Fighting husband

[Chrome Barracuda]

I am new to this site although my situation isn’t. Someone else posted a thread about my wife’s affair and I was told about it by a mutual friend (thank you for caring GBF1, and others who contributed). The original thread is below.

[FONT=AGaramond][sIZE=3]http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1393402#post1393402[/sIZE][/FONT]

 

The basic story is my wife and I were having a tough time. Arguments over silly small things which created a tense atmosphere. We had a hectic 7 years together (the last two married) involving moving 3 times back & forth across continents, searching & buying our dream home, renovations and a nice wedding. We both though love doing the same things, have the same interests and did nearly everything together.

 

The arguments were really based on my impatience – I think mainly down to my wanting to ‘get on in life’ and insecurity of not achieving this for our future, and from her always accusing me of having affairs (which I never had) and taking the slightest criticism very badly (i.e. I would do most of the running around for us and the odd time I would ask her to do something it would get left for days as she prioritised work first). In the morning if I was in a good mood she would often question it. I would have to think about how I would tell her I was gong to the gym, or out for a beer with friends etc. I told her a few times it is often the accuser is the one who has the affair. However, with her attitude towards this I trusted her 100%. She is a person that is always looking for approval from others (think the ‘church mouse’) although I said to her a few times that I thought that by not standing up for herself she would bring these issues home to me – I seemed to be the only person she dared argue with. However, I should point out that the majority of the time I was very affectionate with her, always looking to cuddle, buy her things, be a gentleman, etc.

 

After us living back overseas (in Europe) for 2 years I arrived back from a trip (I brought my father back with me) with a feeling something was wrong. Because my father was there I didn’t chase it. Then the day before my father was due to fly home I checked the PC and found an e-mail from her to an estate agents enquiring about an apartment. The rent was too high for her to afford alone. Like others on this site the discovery was crushing (I had never gone through her correspondence before although she had gone through mine

 

I waited at the train station for her and challenged her. She admitted she was looking for a place for her and the guy she had sat opposite at work for 2 years. He is married (2 years) and his wife has a child from a previous marriage but the boy (6 years old) knows him as a father. I was devastated but knew he would find her attractive (she is a very good looking girl) but I always trusted her. Note that I also work at the same office. She said the marriage wasn’t working and she was “not the wife I deserved

 

She stayed at friends the first night and she asked to talk the next day. There were a lot of tears and she basically said she had fallen rapidly for him over the last 2 months which seemed to coincide with a big argument we’d had on holiday – again over something minor). I suggested we go to counselling and that I would do anything to get help for any & all of my problems but I could see she had fallen for him. I told her that he was just an outlet for her because of our problems; he was sitting there all nice and calm, like I was with the girl opposite me at work. She moved her clothes out and moved into an apartment with him.[/

 

I blamed myself 100% to begin with, read a lot of books, listened to lots of self help tapes, talked to friends with psychological training, and professionals, and generally improving myself. I had thought in the first days “well, this guy has been really nice to her and I have to learn my lesson”. Then all these people started contacting me about this guy (not me going to them for info) and the full story of what an ar****** he is starting coming out. Of course he was never going to be a great guy in my book but all this info was overwhelming. My wife’s father visited after a few weeks and said he could see right through the guy and dreaded her staying with him, although he was certain the guy was just a crutch. He told her she had to suffer the consequences of her actions and left her to it

 

Over 6 months we talked here and there, she said about things which I had done which weren’t nice and I agreed (just for the record there was never any physical violence or anything of that nature). Generally I tried to avoid contact so she could see what the guy was like for herself. Late during that time a girl from my work came over to watch DVD’s a couple of times, but nothing really in it. When my wife realised someone else had been over she then said she had been missing me, was confused, and would take my advice to go and see a counsellor (she wouldn’t go for us but would go for her own issues. I though at least this would be a start). She also said hat when she was sick after a party around that time she was calling out for me. She also wanted to come around more at this time to “see the cat”. However, she had made no moves to leave the guy

 

4 weeks ago the guy told her he was going back to his wife. I think he sensed he wasn’t in a good spot and jumped before e thought he’d be pushed. As someone mentioned on the original thread about him being the type of guy that changes horses during the race when his one seems to be falling behind. He basically told my wife he wanted to give it another go with his wife – he told my wife in the ‘coffee corner’ at work (when he left his wife originally he told her in a public theme park when the boy was on a ride

 

She immediately got onto me and wanted to talk. We took a day off and talked and I agreed to give it a go, although the first thing I wanted to do was get her away from him so that at least she could think straight. The next day she was devastated by his rejection and I said I preferred that she go back to the apartment she shared with him as he had since moved back to his wife, so we could both be alone & think. She begged to stay a while longer. I eventually agreed after she became suicidal and I discussed it wit her father who said her mother had self harm episodes

 

She stayed a week and when she was better I took her back to the apartment as there was 2 months still left on the lease and paid for. We thought it best for both of us that she got her straightened out. She was still all about him. It old her that she needed to understand the situation, how it happened and she would realise the guy wasn’t an important part of it. She hasn’t done much of this

 

A week or so later we met and she said she thought we should get divorced as she didn’t want to keep me hanging on. She said she was barely coping. She had been seeing a psychologist once a week for the past 4 weeks at this point. The shrink said after the 2nd visit that she had zero confidence. She had a childhood which contained a lot of episodes from her parents that I think a best seller could be written about. Without going into details it would clearly have an effect on her. She said no one would want her now, as she is a basket case and that she needs time on her own to fix her problems. She feels everything she buttoned up is now coming out (she is 37). She says she is just about coping

 

It may be hard for some to believe but she is actually a good person. She did very well in her childhood to be there for her mother in a horrific situation which lasted 13 years. I never go much affection from her and this could be very frustrating but it could be down to her childhood (parents various relationships which included one very strange one where her mother was dominated cruelly

 

I still love her & care for her. I actually feel this situation; with what we have both learnt/can learn, could actually create a wonderful relationship. I told her that in her condition she can’t really make any decisions on us yet but should keep her options open while continuing to see the psychologist.

 

I would really appreciate help from those out there whether I should keep trying, should I give her space, for how long? Basically some guidance on how to fix &/or handle this situation. Of course it doesn’t help when the other guy is still at the office but unlike the US you can’t get rid of him for that, although several senior managers would love to get rid of him. She feels she can cope with working in the same place and it is difficult to get other work here.

 

Thanks for your help.

Fighting husband

 

 

...I think you should just let her go.

 

All this damn drama isnt worth it. If she is in a mlc mode and you dont have any kids. Then leave. She isnt worth the time or to patience to try to get to fall back in love with you again.

 

Just realize that her issues go way beyond you and it's her fault the marriage ended. Even now she doesnt want to come back even after you give her the opportunity. So what does that say?

[stampdaddy]

...I think you should just let her go.

 

All this damn drama isnt worth it. If she is in a mlc mode and you dont have any kids. Then leave. She isnt worth the time or to patience to try to get to fall back in love with you again.

 

Just realize that her issues go way beyond you and it's her fault the marriage ended. Even now she doesnt want to come back even after you give her the opportunity. So what does that say?

quoting Pulp Fiction now?

[whichwayisup]

If you love her and want to give it your best, then stick to it for atleast a year. Go to marriage counselling and see what happens. That way if it doesn't work, atleast YOU know you tried your hardest. If she can continue counselling on her own and work through her own issues, learn and grow, then maybe your marriage could be saved. It all really depends if you can trust her again, and ofcourse if she really wants to save the marriage.

Sadly, once one person stops trying (after infidelity) and doesn't want the marriage to workout, it doesn't workout..

[Chrome Barracuda]

quoting Pulp Fiction now?

 

Hell of a movie!

[Girlsbestfriend1]

Good to se you

[Curmudgeon]

I would really appreciate help from those out there whether I should keep trying, should I give her space, for how long? Basically some guidance on how to fix &/or handle this situation. Of course it doesn’t help when the other guy is still at the office but unlike the US you can’t get rid of him for that, although several senior managers would love to get rid of him. She feels she can cope with working in the same place and it is difficult to get other work here.

 

How long can you stand being in limbo? What's your tolerance level? Will you be able to truly let go of the fact that she spent time living with another man you're both going to continue seeing at work? When things get tough and you get angry will you be throwing that up in her face?

 

Do you really still love her or is it more a matter of you wanting to win? If so, is the ultimate prize worth the effort? Have you ever thought about finding someone with less baggage and less drama?

 

Good luck. I know what I'd do, but I'm not you.

[Fighting Husband]

Thank you all for your comments. I had wondered if it was my ego wanting to get her back but I think don't think so. I do still love & care for her. We were having problems but didn't realise the help available to overcome them.

 

She is pretty screwed up right now. She feels that all the issues from her childhood that she bottled up are now coming out and she feels like she's no good to anyone in present state. She wants to have some time on her own to sort herself out. She feels that she depended on me too much although I thought one of the points of a relationship is to be able to depend on each other!

 

She has been seeing a psychologist for the last month and will continue to do so.

 

As far as being able to trust her again I feel that the pressure of guilt she has gone through would stop her from having an affair again. During this whole affair she said her head was numb with pressure from guilt.

 

I know I can't wait around for her but I'm still keeping my options open. I wonder if I should just leave her alone to sort herself out - i.e. no contact - or perhaps see here once a week or so in attempt to rekindle things?

 

Fighting Husband

[Curmudgeon]

I know I can't wait around for her but I'm still keeping my options open. I wonder if I should just leave her alone to sort herself out - i.e. no contact - or perhaps see here once a week or so in attempt to rekindle things?

 

...when dealing with a walk-away wife is to stop initiating contact and just wait it out. "Chasing" them often drives them further away. "Ignoring" them often draws them back and then the relationship can be reconfigured more on your terms. Of course, there's risk with both approaches.

 

Good luck. Just make sure of what you want first.

[Fighting Husband]

Thanks Curmudgeon

I know I can't keep waiting around and have been trying to move on but, as I wrote, keeping my options open. She is really in a mess right now psychologically and is not capable of making any decisions. I am keeping to myself and leaving her to it. If I meet someone else then so be it.

 

It's a shame that all we have learnt through this, including her getting the help she could have done with years ago (please don't interpret this as her being the sole problem), allied with having most of the same things & views in common, would really be a waste. Still, you take your new improvements on with you.

 

In a few weeks time I'll be going home for a 4 week holiday which will help to take my mind off things catching up with friends. I'm looking forward to the break and putting my mind on other things - although there will also be memories of places & times at home!

 

Thanks

FH

[Fighting Husband]

LucreziaBorgia

 

I was really impressed with what you said on GBF's original thread. Have you got any advice as to the current situation?

 

It would be much appreciated.

 

FH

[Darth Vader]

...I think you should just let her go.

 

All this damn drama isnt worth it. If she is in a mlc mode and you dont have any kids. Then leave. She isnt worth the time or to patience to try to get to fall back in love with you again.

 

Just realize that her issues go way beyond you and it's her fault the marriage ended. Even now she doesnt want to come back even after you give her the opportunity. So what does that say?

 

 

I agree, after all, she came back only after it didn't work out with the other guy, that should tell you something right there, she had you on the backburner the whole time while she was out riding him and having a good 'ol time. The moment that she gets preggers, you're stuck with her, and all her Drama! Oh, do you think you could've done this, even having problems, Um, NO! Your butt would've been out of the house so fast it would've made your head spin!

[Archer36]

Wow, did we marry the same woman? Your wife sounds exactly like mine. Same problems, insecurities, needs, and family history/background.

 

I'll tell you this, I've been married to this good woman for 18 years now, and every year its gotten harder.

 

There is something these women are searching for that we cannot give them. We are the "normal, regular everyday" support.

 

You cannot compliment them enough, they still feel unattractive.

 

You cannot talk to them enough, they still feel unintelligent.

 

You cannot try to spend enough time with them, they still feel unwanted.

 

The "thing" whatever it is they are looking for, only seems to come from an external source (or in my case partially, my children, thank God you don't have that to deal with as well!)

 

They, for whatever reason, do not see their husbands as a source of fulfilling their emotional needs, and constantly need to feel loved by everyone they meet, just to feel "normal".

 

Thats the way I feel about my wife anyhow, and it seems you wife is looking for that "thing" as well.

 

I don't think my marriage is going to make it, and I would encourage you to go very slow before you spend 18 years of your life (like I have) being the financial support for a woman on an emotional journey with no destination.

Best wishes!

[jmargel]

Kind of reminds me of my ex-fiancee.. Things were going great, though I knew her childhood was filled with abuse from her mom. Her dad was very distant, but she moved in with him (which is how I met her) and he took her under his wing.. Two years later he tried killing himself out of the blue..

 

Dealing with her mom's abuse and now her dad's suicide attempt (he hung himself) I knew deep down that our relationship was over. When she went to see a psychologist to deal with her past.. She needed it but it made her someone that I didn't know anymore. He was using some method to make her relive her past and then dropped her as a patient.

 

In any event, she left for another guy. Her life turned into shambles. Divorced him and remarried.. Had kids to both of these guys and she's never got on her feet. It's sad, because she was extremely smart and could have made something of her life.

 

Sounds like your wife has alot of emotional problems and probably clincially depressed. I would encourage her to goto marriage counseling and invite her but let her make that decision herself. With her talking about divorce, don't try to talk her out of it. I would go with the approach 'If this is something you really want, then I will sign the papers, but I really hope you think hard and long about this. There is a huge hurdle ahead of us and I am willing to get over it with you. Anytime you are ready to talk, I will be hear to listen'.

 

Then just let it go. When she talks, don't interrupt. She very well may try to lay blanket statements on you and blame it on you. I would respond to things like that as 'I can understand where you are coming from, but I don't believe our marriage is the total reason why you are feeling this way'. Use 'I understand' alot with your conversations with her, it puts down her defense mechanisms and will allow her to open up to you more. You will have to bite your tongue alot because good chance she's going to blame you for quite awhile yet.

 

Three years after my ex left, she came back out of the blue to apologize and ask for my forgiveness on the way she treated me. She finally realized it wasn't because of me.. It was because of her past and how she handled that and the problems that she faced everyday. However she had to realize this herself, something that takes counseling.. and time to achieve.

[whichwayisup]

There is something these women are searching for that we cannot give them. We are the "normal, regular everyday" support.

 

You cannot compliment them enough, they still feel unattractive.

 

You cannot talk to them enough, they still feel unintelligent.

 

You cannot try to spend enough time with them, they still feel unwanted.

 

Which is why both women NEED counselling to learn how to love, respect and be happy with themselves first.

[Fighting Husband]

Guys

 

You are right. The husband seems to be there as the 'whipping boy' (and of course the reverse can also be true for wives). Everytime I would be away I would be looking for gifts, etc, that would be bearly appreciated. One trip I came home with an i-pod for her. If someone had got me one I would have been over the moon. Instead of being grateful she accused me of buying it through guilt of being with someone while I was away! The only time I have time for myself on a business trip I am looking for something for her! Please don't think that I just use gifts to make up for a lack of love or anything else.

 

She is always looking for approval from others and I feel this means she doesn't let her frustration out to others, only me. I feel you have to expect some of this from your partner but not to the extent I was getting it.

 

I also feel, and others with better counselling backgrounds than me agree, that possibly with some people that they can't handle being loved or cared for. They didn't see it in their parents relationship, or not much of it, and are conditioned to that being normal. They look at their parents break-up and expect the same to happen to them. If someone shows them a lot of love & affection they can't handle it, and also they hold back their own love for fear of getting hurt. If you are in a long term relationship there really is no point holding back your love for fear of getting hurt!

 

When so many people have such low expectations it is no wonder there are so many divorces. I read an article where 85% of people that were suffering relationship problems around the 7 year mark ('seven year itch') battled through them and were so glad they did so rather than giving up and breaking the relationship.

 

FH

[emotionally_barren]

can she not get a job elsewhere? having that other guy there at work all the time has to mess with her mind and cause bad feelings. of course you'd still have to see him however.

 

i wish for your sake he would find another job somewhere as him being removed from your life would be the optimal thing.

[Fighting Husband]

It would be much better for him to get a job elsewhere - I actually told him in no uncertain terms 2 weeks ago. From what everyone has said he is a disturbing element. He upset some girls in his previous office (same company) apparently - vulnerable girls, just like my wife was.

 

Some senior managers would really like rid of him but in the department he is in he seems to somehow survive.

 

When you look at the whole story it really panned out as most people said it would in the original thread. He will have had his way with my wife and then move on (or return to his wife in this case - who has a 6 year old boy and no job so I guess she gave into the 'practicality' of having him back). My wife just cannot see this at all - still in the fog I guess.

 

It's just amazing when you hear people that know him say "he's really not very interesting", "he isn't funny", "he has no personality, you can see right through him (her father said this last comment)", "he's certainly no Brad Pitt". But I suppose when you are having problems in a marriage someone who is being very nice to you can seem attractive. He just seemed to be in the right spot. I hear some pyshcologists call it 'transfer' where a spouse with problems in their relationship see a very mediocre person and build them up into something they are not.

 

He just goes back to his wife as if he's hardly done anything wrong and she accepts it. Meanwhile I am left to clean up the mess of my wife who doesn't know what she wants or what she's doing. Please tell me karma comes back to people like him!