Betrayal or shame?

[whichwayisup]

Alot of this should be put on your MM as HE has handled it badly and making it worse. Her behaviour and craziness is partially caused by HIS indecisiveness to actually finally leave.

[Mustang Sally]

SG - it was an abusive M. MM and his W went for MC long before the A, but when the counsellor told her her behaviour was abusive, she walked out of counselling and refused to go back. MM persisted with IC, and tried to get W to go to IC if not MC. She refused all these years, insisting the problems were with him, with her colleagues (when she was asked to leave at work for her abusive behaviour there) and with family when they told her she was no longer welcome because of her behaviour. She is abusive even to strangers - shop assistants, plumbers, receptionists at the doctors. This is common cause among their friends and colleagues, who've for years been advising him to leave her.

 

MM left her. The kids chose to be with him, but do spend some time with her. She thought the leaving was a trick to force her to go back to counselling. MM told her there was "someone else". She refused to believe it, but did eventually go to IC. It was after her first session that this happened.

 

I am surmising what went on in the session from the interaction she had with MM afterward. Neither he nor I were present during her session, as it was IC.

 

He has left the M. He is not going back - the counselling was not intended for that. W refused to join MM and the kids in family counselling around the split, and next steps, this is just her IC. MM is also in IC alongside the family counselling. The counselling was to make the split easier for the kids, and to make sure they had the space to raise their concerns, their hopes and fears, so that the final D settlement was built around their needs rather than the parents' battles.

Ok.

Pardon me for coming in late...but could you give me a quick rundown of some timing issues in your situation? I'm trying to understand how it all fits together.

 

1) How long it was from MM deciding that his M was abusive to him deciding to leave the M?

2) Where on that time line, do you come into the picture?

 

Thanks.

[smartgirl]

SG - it was an abusive M. MM and his W went for MC long before the A, but when the counsellor told her her behaviour was abusive, she walked out of counselling and refused to go back. MM persisted with IC, and tried to get W to go to IC if not MC. She refused all these years, insisting the problems were with him, with her colleagues (when she was asked to leave at work for her abusive behaviour there) and with family when they told her she was no longer welcome because of her behaviour. She is abusive even to strangers - shop assistants, plumbers, receptionists at the doctors. This is common cause among their friends and colleagues, who've for years been advising him to leave her.

 

MM left her. The kids chose to be with him, but do spend some time with her. She thought the leaving was a trick to force her to go back to counselling. MM told her there was "someone else". She refused to believe it, but did eventually go to IC. It was after her first session that this happened.

 

I am surmising what went on in the session from the interaction she had with MM afterward. Neither he nor I were present during her session, as it was IC.

 

He has left the M. He is not going back - the counselling was not intended for that. W refused to join MM and the kids in family counselling around the split, and next steps, this is just her IC. MM is also in IC alongside the family counselling. The counselling was to make the split easier for the kids, and to make sure they had the space to raise their concerns, their hopes and fears, so that the final D settlement was built around their needs rather than the parents' battles.

 

Thank you for the clarification. I hope he will also seek counselling for the kids if he hasn't already. I have had some recent experince with child therapists (for teens really) and they can be amazingly helpful to head off the inevitable self blaming problems.

 

He should still stop reporting on the W's actions and so forth. He should keep a lid on things for everyone's sake. It will keep the kids from having to deal with it for years to come as they hear these things repeated back at family gatherings.

[whichwayisup]

I also hope he doesn't bash his (ex) wife to the kids. That won't help in the long run. So any negative feels you and him have towards her, should be kept quiet and not discussed with the kids or anyone else. Her life as she knows it is over, and hopefully now with the help of counselling she can pick herself back up and heal.

[Trimmer]

You know how they say the stages of grief are not linear, but cyclical? Meaning, you don't go through one stage and move on to another and the next until you're done grieving, but instead, you cycle through various stages over and over until eventually you are better.

Very good point, and the other factor here is that at different times, some of the stages and textures of loss are used as defenses against others. So a feeling of humiliation and/or shame may be, in a way, easier to deal with in a given moment as a way of distracting from the deeper personal betrayal. So just because someone seems to be "dwelling" on what everyone else thinks at the moment, doesn't mean that she isn't feeling (or won't be whomped later by...) a feeling of betrayal that dwarfs the current pain by comparison.

 

Also, she may wear her humiliation on the outside, but still be suffering and struggling with the betrayal quite intensely on the inside. Since it seems you don't have a clear view of her, I would suggest that you don't have a complete view of her, either...

 

Thank you for the clarification. I hope he will also seek counselling for the kids if he hasn't already.

I took it that he had:

MM is also in IC alongside the family counselling. The counselling was to make the split easier for the kids, and to make sure they had the space to raise their concerns, their hopes and fears...

Edited February 19, 2008 by Trimmer

[OWoman]

I also hope he doesn't bash his (ex) wife to the kids. That won't help in the long run. So any negative feels you and him have towards her, should be kept quiet and not discussed with the kids or anyone else. Her life as she knows it is over, and hopefully now with the help of counselling she can pick herself back up and heal.

 

WWIU it's quite the converse, actually - the kids are the ones ripping into her to MM, and he's the one defending her to them. He's feeling bad about what she's going through, so much so that the family counsellor has told him to zip it and to allow them their feelings and opinions without him countering them all the time.

 

Same thing is happening with the family - of course his family is completely putting the boot into her after a lifetime of mutual dislike and some extreme abuse in front of them, and he's covering for her in front of them while they're telling him to fight back against her abuses, to nail her in the D settlement, to deny her any access to the kids...

[smartgirl]

Out of curiosity, has it ever been suggested that MM's W suffers from depression or has had treatment for depression? Some of the things you are describing sound a lot like a family friend who had become increasingly angry over the years -- seemingly at her H, but it was extending to others more and more.

 

At my suggestion, she got some help and was put on meds. Was a different person for awhile - happy and pleasant to be around. Decided that being happy was "letting other people off the hook" or similar twisted logic and she went off meds and wouldn't continue with therapy. Unfortunately, some people are so ill that they will not accept anything is wrong with them and so they won't get treatment. The children of these people frequently begin to have their own anger problems. The H puts his head in the sand, stays out of the house as much as possible and makes digs about her in front of others like he's making a joke.

 

So back to your original question about her reaction:

 

In my first post I explained how a relatively normal person could feel even more betrayed at finding out a number of people knew about their spouse's affair. But if the person has mental health issues (particularly depression) that aspect of things can feed their paranoia and their belief that they are a victim and not a contributor to their own misery.

 

If this woman is ill, it makes her no easier for everyone to deal with, but it can take some of the sting out of it for the children knowing it isn't rational thought. I knew my friend for 25 years and the last five I would leave gatherings almost physically ill from the stress of her anger and rantings about all the injustice she felt subjected to.

[Owl]

Wow...this sounds like a nightmare for everyone!

 

Who knows...hopefully this will get her engaged in IC that she'll actually heed for a change.

[OWoman]

Out of curiosity, has it ever been suggested that MM's W suffers from depression or has had treatment for depression? Some of the things you are describing sound a lot like a family friend who had become increasingly angry over the years -- seemingly at her H, but it was extending to others more and more.

 

SG she's refused to go for counselling until now. And, after the fall-out from her first session, there's a question mark hanging over whether she'll go back. I'm hoping that she'll value the support and return, but I suppose only time will tell.

 

She's resisted any referrals or diagnoses from GPs, and has never taken any meds prescribed for her. Mental illness runs in her family and she's probably afraid that a diagnosis might label her in the way she's always disparaged them.

 

The kids are having difficulty right now being objective about her attacks on them (for not siding with her against MM) and probably need the safe space of counselling to vent, before they can understand things rationally and process them intellectually.

[OWoman]

Wow...this sounds like a nightmare for everyone!

 

Who knows...hopefully this will get her engaged in IC that she'll actually heed for a change.

 

Let's hope, Owl. I wish she hadn't alienated all her friends and colleagues over the years, she needs the support right now and she needs people who care about her advising her. She's backed herself into a corner now with the whole world as enemies, when she most needs someone on her team. I hope she returns to counselling so that she'll at least have her counsellor.

[eeyore1980]

For BS whose CS had a LTR with an OW or OM, particularly where you may have been the last to know - what was more upsetting to you? The A itself, or the suspicion that others knew but kept you in the dark? Being betrayed, or being a fool?

 

 

 

A fool? Did I feel like a fool because I loved, trusted, and supported H for 23 years and he chose to cheat on me? No. That doesn't make me a fool, that makes him a lying, cheating, cuss word, cuss word.

 

I've read this thread. Where are you getting your info, from CMM, or from others as well? H is very capable at twisting facts in every situation to make himself out as a victim. There's no telling what he told OW about me, but I bet she bought every word.

 

You might want to give this whole situation some serious thought. I think a fool would be someone who has an affair with a MM, and thinks once the completely to blame W is out of the way the same thing isn't going to happen to her. Maybe you should try to put yourself in the W's shoes, you might end up wearing them some day.

 

As far as OW in my case, turns out she wasn't the chaste Catholic Girl she led my husband to believe. I found out from most of the town what a blazing nutcase from hell she is. In hindsight, part of me wishes I hadn't told H, and went ahead with D and let him end up with her, I could have spent all my days LMAO just thinking about it.

[justice]

For me, it was the betrayal. The lies that he told me, the promises he broke and the vows he desecrated. I could have cared less about who knew what was going on. I mean come on, heres this guy who is supposed to love me and only me, that I had given up the majority of my life for, and had sacrificed being close to my own family so that we could be together. And he turns on me and does that crap. No it was the broken trust and his lies, after I found out, I filled everyone else in on what kind of person he was. After all, I did nothing wrong and he even admitted that. He was the worst kind of cake eater.

[Mr. Lucky]

I've read this thread. Where are you getting your info, from CMM, or from others as well? H is very capable at twisting facts in every situation to make himself out as a victim. There's no telling what he told OW about me, but I bet she bought every word.

Good point. I've never understood how the OW, knowing that her MM is lying through his teeth to the wife at home, thinks that he's telling her the truth, the whole truth and nothing but...

 

Mr. Lucky

[OWoman]

Good point. I've never understood how the OW, knowing that her MM is lying through his teeth to the wife at home, thinks that he's telling her the truth, the whole truth and nothing but...

 

Perhaps. Only his lies to his W were lies of omission rather than commission (simply not telling her anything until he was ready to do so, rather than telling her lies) so it wasn't quite "lying through his teeth" - and he was open with everyone else about us.

 

But no, he's far from my only source of information. In fact, he mostly serves only to confirm information already received from other sources (his family, that W is phoning up and screaming at mostly, but also colleagues and friends she's yelling at). He did forward me a particularly venomous email from her and asked me how I thought he should respond, because he was feeling so punchdrunk he couldn't trust his own judgment on what would be best. (I told him to file it, keep it for discussion with his lawyer, do nothing in response unless advised by his lawyer. So that's what he's done.) Throughout the whole A he was very discreet as a source of info on his M - and when I asked him outright whether certain things were true after being told by others, he'd admit reluctantly and make excuses for his W's abusive behaviour. It has worried me a little that he hasn't yet entered the angry zone, because I think he needs to pass through that (possibly in cycles, as some have suggested) before he's through this fully. But I'm leaving that in the hands of his counsellor.

[Owl]

Perhaps. Only his lies to his W were lies of omission rather than commission (simply not telling her anything until he was ready to do so, rather than telling her lies) so it wasn't quite "lying through his teeth" - and he was open with everyone else about us.

 

I've never quite understood why so many people feel that this is somehow "less" than a lie?

 

To me...its a lie. It was deliberately left out to mislead his wife.

 

And that's not a 'slam' on him, or you. Just an observation on the nature of lying.

[smartgirl]

Even though I am a former BS I can understand that some marriages are ready to end and your MM's sounds like one of them. However....

 

The W may be unhinged, but MM's behavior has been less than stellar in many ways - though he may "defend her" when pressed. He sounds like the classic conflict-avoider that so often winds up having affairs. They either have problems in the marriage or want out of the marriage and instead of addressing the real problem, they turn to someone else while still married. I think you might agree that despite his wife's behavior, he should have ended the marriage before getting involved with someone else. Now a bad situation is really messy.

 

This marriage is over, but here is my advice for you. First, don't confuse being a nice guy with cowardice. This man has great difficulty taking decisive action and will let things drag out and get others involved until the mess is widespread and public. This will not change in the future. As long as his STB-EX is alive she will be a factor in your lives and the lives of the children. If he can't learn to deal with her in an honest direct manner now, he will continue to try and work through or with others and everyone will be miserable.

 

He doesn't have to be angry with her, nor should he be. Indifference is the opposite of love, not hate. He just needs to be clear that she is troubled and that ignoring it or excusing it will not make it go away. He needs to be consistent, open and honest in all his dealings with her. Being evasive and seeking to avoid conflict at the expense of clarity and honesty will exacerbate every single problem you have described in this thread and every single person will become a victim of the fallout in someway. He is the pivitol figure in this drama whether he likes it or not.

 

You must not allow yourself to feel any anger at this woman. She may be a witch, but she is still a victim of her husband's dishonesty. Her bad behavior doesn't excuse his. You need to stay out of the back and forth between them and force him to deal with this -- it is his responsibility. If people bad mouth her, don't join in -- encourage everyone to take the retoric down a notch and create as much of a calming environment as possible.

 

Time has a way of changing everyone's perspective in ways you might not imagine. Later on, family members will forgive each other for all the bad things being said, but you may find that any bad mouthing or hostile actions you do will be remembered more clearly. As people begin to feel bad about what they said and did in the heat of emotional times, they try to make themselves feel better by comparison to other's behavior. Don't offer yourself up as that benchmark.

 

Treat the W with more kindness and respect than she deserves. This isn't the life she planned for I'm sure, no matter what role she may have played in it's creation. She is likely ill, hurt and lost. Take the high road always and try to muster as much empathy for her as you can.

 

And above all, do not excuse or ignore warning signs you see in MMs behavior because of what W does. How is acts here is a perfect science lab experiment of how he will act in future times of stress. Make sure your eyes are open and your vision is not clouded by the W's theatrics.

[OWoman]

Even though I am a former BS I can understand that some marriages are ready to end and your MM's sounds like one of them. However....

 

The W may be unhinged, but MM's behavior has been less than stellar in many ways - though he may "defend her" when pressed. He sounds like the classic conflict-avoider that so often winds up having affairs. They either have problems in the marriage or want out of the marriage and instead of addressing the real problem, they turn to someone else while still married. I think you might agree that despite his wife's behavior, he should have ended the marriage before getting involved with someone else. Now a bad situation is really messy.

 

This marriage is over, but here is my advice for you. First, don't confuse being a nice guy with cowardice. This man has great difficulty taking decisive action and will let things drag out and get others involved until the mess is widespread and public. This will not change in the future. As long as his STB-EX is alive she will be a factor in your lives and the lives of the children. If he can't learn to deal with her in an honest direct manner now, he will continue to try and work through or with others and everyone will be miserable.

 

He doesn't have to be angry with her, nor should he be. Indifference is the opposite of love, not hate. He just needs to be clear that she is troubled and that ignoring it or excusing it will not make it go away. He needs to be consistent, open and honest in all his dealings with her. Being evasive and seeking to avoid conflict at the expense of clarity and honesty will exacerbate every single problem you have described in this thread and every single person will become a victim of the fallout in someway. He is the pivitol figure in this drama whether he likes it or not.

 

You must not allow yourself to feel any anger at this woman. She may be a witch, but she is still a victim of her husband's dishonesty. Her bad behavior doesn't excuse his. You need to stay out of the back and forth between them and force him to deal with this -- it is his responsibility. If people bad mouth her, don't join in -- encourage everyone to take the retoric down a notch and create as much of a calming environment as possible.

 

Time has a way of changing everyone's perspective in ways you might not imagine. Later on, family members will forgive each other for all the bad things being said, but you may find that any bad mouthing or hostile actions you do will be remembered more clearly. As people begin to feel bad about what they said and did in the heat of emotional times, they try to make themselves feel better by comparison to other's behavior. Don't offer yourself up as that benchmark.

 

Treat the W with more kindness and respect than she deserves. This isn't the life she planned for I'm sure, no matter what role she may have played in it's creation. She is likely ill, hurt and lost. Take the high road always and try to muster as much empathy for her as you can.

 

And above all, do not excuse or ignore warning signs you see in MMs behavior because of what W does. How is acts here is a perfect science lab experiment of how he will act in future times of stress. Make sure your eyes are open and your vision is not clouded by the W's theatrics.

 

Thanks for this, SG.

 

Yes, there is a definite conflict-avoidance pattern, and it's reared its head a couple of times between us, too. Though I call him on it instantly, and we resolve it - but it has become an ingrained pattern from the decades of abuse. I can't expect counselling to have erased it entirely, and no doubt it will take lots of work from all sides.

 

The anger - I do think it is appropriate for him to feel angry. Rationalising the abuse and making excuses for it focuses on her and her reasons; it doesn't deal with his responses and whether or not they were appropriate or healthy. No one deserves to be abused, and until he feels that his right not to be abused was violated, he'll still be hostage to that abuse IMO. I'm not saying he needs to express that towards her or about her in any kind of social space, he has his counselling space to engage with that, but I do think he needs to engage with it to work through it and get beyond it.

 

I haven't been engaging with the family on BW - I've been keeping the discussions about MM and the kids, on a very practical level - but I do

feel angry at her for the way the kids are being used. But this isn't about me or my feelings, it's about them and what needs to happen and so I've been backing away from that space with his family, friends and colleagues.

 

Lots of hard work and tough times ahead all round, I imagine.

[whichwayisup]

so it wasn't quite "lying through his teeth" - and he was open with everyone else about us.

 

But he owed her the truth, not everyone else. Alot of this mess has been created because he wasn't truthful with his wife.

 

OW, I wish you the best, and I really hope your MM learns from this situation and grows a backbone because the way he's dealt with this hasn't been good at all.

[smartgirl]

Thanks for this, SG.

 

Yes, there is a definite conflict-avoidance pattern, and it's reared its head a couple of times between us, too. Though I call him on it instantly, and we resolve it - but it has become an ingrained pattern from the decades of abuse. I can't expect counselling to have erased it entirely, and no doubt it will take lots of work from all sides.

 

The anger - I do think it is appropriate for him to feel angry. Rationalising the abuse and making excuses for it focuses on her and her reasons; it doesn't deal with his responses and whether or not they were appropriate or healthy. No one deserves to be abused, and until he feels that his right not to be abused was violated, he'll still be hostage to that abuse IMO. I'm not saying he needs to express that towards her or about her in any kind of social space, he has his counselling space to engage with that, but I do think he needs to engage with it to work through it and get beyond it.

 

I haven't been engaging with the family on BW - I've been keeping the discussions about MM and the kids, on a very practical level - but I do

feel angry at her for the way the kids are being used. But this isn't about me or my feelings, it's about them and what needs to happen and so I've been backing away from that space with his family, friends and colleagues.

 

Lots of hard work and tough times ahead all round, I imagine.

 

There is more than a semantic difference between MM feeling anger at W for years of an abusive relationship and MM accepting that he was abused. Janet Abrahms Springs, who wrote an excellent book called "After the Affair" also wrote a book called "How Can I Forgive You." It is written for people who have been the recipient of ill treatment from someone - spouse, parent, etc. It is especially written from the standpoint of a person whose abuser will not accept responsibility for what they have done or cannot because they are gone or deceased. It is about coming to grips with the fact that you were in fact abused, something many people are unable or unwilling to accept for a whole variety of reasons, and then understanding that the problem is within the other person and you are not to blame. There is a lot more to it than this, but hopefully this gives you a snapshot.

 

You should read it first and then he can when he is ready. He doesn't have to feel angry to heal. In fact, anger would be at most a first stage and will ultimately eat him alive if it continues too long. If he is making excuses and taking on the blame himself that is a classic defense mechanism people have because they don't want to see themselves as victims. I have personally witnessed an entire family of adult children talk about their lying, cheating, negligent, emotionally abusive father as though he were a great man because the other reality is too painful to face.

 

All that being said, you are not a disinterested party. You have both a bias and an agenda and you have to be careful to separate your issues from those of your MM and his children.

[Jess-Belle]

My situation didn't involve an LTR. The betrayal is agonizing, but a substantial amount of my pain, especially at first, was from feeling utterly and completely humiliated. I'm not sure if you meant you use "humiliation" or "embarassment" instead of shame, because shame would imply that the BS is at fault somehow.

 

The humiliation was the second factor I felt, right after the immediate anguish. I didn't want anyone to know, and I still feel that way now. I thanked my lucky stars I wasn't a celebrity that would have a story like this posted all over the gossip blogs and magazines. And even though you know the WS is 100% to blame, and that any person with half a brain would know this and would sympathize with you, it is still something that you just can't bear anyone to know about. I suppose because in a twisted way, the betrayal is a slam on you as a person. While there are the intelligent people out there who know better, there is also the other school of thought that immediately assumes that the betrayed did something to deserve it. 'I bet she was a real bxtch', 'She was probably cold in bed', 'She didn't appreciate him enough', etc. Even if you know it isn't true, you don't want the embarassment of knowing people are thinking that. Not when you're going through the most devastating pain of your life.

[OWoman]

I'm not sure if you meant you use "humiliation" or "embarassment" instead of shame, because shame would imply that the BS is at fault somehow.

 

JB thanks for pointing that out - my intention in titling the thread wasn't to imply blame but more a sense of what you've better described as humiliation or embarrassment. Or however the BS felt at the time - I'm sure there's a range of it and a range of descriptions for it. But the intention wasn't to apportion blame whichever way.

 

Your description of humiliation is very helpful - I think that people on the outside of the process underestimate how great an impact the furtive glance, the whispered word, the hurried about-turn in the supermarket can have on a BS who is suddenly subject to such scrutiny.

[OWoman]

All that being said, you are not a disinterested party. You have both a bias and an agenda and you have to be careful to separate your issues from those of your MM and his children.

 

Thanks SG, I'm painfully aware of this and keep that perspective foregrounded in my conversations with MM and others because whether or not I may offer good advice or have useful insights, it's still informed by my own particular position in this and the mustn't get overlooked.

 

Thanks also for the book tip - I'll try to get hold of a copy.

[Frances]

My situation didn't involve an LTR. The betrayal is agonizing, but a substantial amount of my pain, especially at first, was from feeling utterly and completely humiliated. I'm not sure if you meant you use "humiliation" or "embarassment" instead of shame, because shame would imply that the BS is at fault somehow.

 

The humiliation was the second factor I felt, right after the immediate anguish. I didn't want anyone to know, and I still feel that way now. I thanked my lucky stars I wasn't a celebrity that would have a story like this posted all over the gossip blogs and magazines. And even though you know the WS is 100% to blame, and that any person with half a brain would know this and would sympathize with you, it is still something that you just can't bear anyone to know about. I suppose because in a twisted way, the betrayal is a slam on you as a person. While there are the intelligent people out there who know better, there is also the other school of thought that immediately assumes that the betrayed did something to deserve it. 'I bet she was a real bxtch', 'She was probably cold in bed', 'She didn't appreciate him enough', etc. Even if you know it isn't true, you don't want the embarassment of knowing people are thinking that. Not when you're going through the most devastating pain of your life.

 

This is most likey what a number of BSs feel, it is certainly one of the big factors for me after the shock of the betrayal by his long term EA.

[Owl]

Hmmm....I didn't feel that way at all.

 

I KNEW that my wife's decision to start an emotional affair (and her intent to leave me and the kids) were NOT a reflection on my values.

 

I wasn't ashamed or humiliated.

 

I was HURT, beyond belief. I was hurt by her betrayal. I was shattered by the fact that she'd lied to me.

 

My self-esteem was shot because I'd thought that our love was 'special'. I would have never believed that she could have "replaced me". I had been a wonderful husband and father...I didn't see how I could have done any better. And that wasn't good enough...so like I said...self-esteem for a long time after that was non-existant.

 

But I wasn't embarassed or humiliated. SHE WAS...because she was the one who was doing something wrong by cheating on me and leaving the kids and I. I hadn't done anything to be embarassed or humiliated or shamed by.

[Frances]

Hmmm....I didn't feel that way at all.

 

I KNEW that my wife's decision to start an emotional affair (and her intent to leave me and the kids) were NOT a reflection on my values.

 

I wasn't ashamed or humiliated.

 

I was HURT, beyond belief. I was hurt by her betrayal. I was shattered by the fact that she'd lied to me.

 

My self-esteem was shot because I'd thought that our love was 'special'. I would have never believed that she could have "replaced me". I had been a wonderful husband and father...I didn't see how I could have done any better. And that wasn't good enough...so like I said...self-esteem for a long time after that was non-existant.

 

But I wasn't embarassed or humiliated. SHE WAS...because she was the one who was doing something wrong by cheating on me and leaving the kids and I. I hadn't done anything to be embarassed or humiliated or shamed by.

 

 

 

Maybe that is one of the differences between men and women.

 

The worst factor of the EA is the hurt and that your love is not that special any more. For me I felt I did not know who this man was anymore. He would see himself as a very moral person and I had always thought he was. Some days I still cannot believe that he did what he did only I have the emails to prove that he did.