Engagement Despair

[panopitcon]

Hey everyone, I apologize for the length beforehand, but I need to get this out.

 

I have an issue with my fiance that I would love to have some help with. We have been dating for over 3 years, and recently got engaged (it has been 2 weeks). Things have been perfect (or whatever perfect can be or mean) and we really connect. We met in university and have been inseperable ever since. I am not going to lie, but she is quite the catch. She is gorgeous, blonde, blue eyes, petit -- my description does no justice and she is always being hit on and flirted with.

 

The problem doesn't lie within the flirting -- I mean, she doesn't flirt back to the point of it ever being a problem. And it is kind of rewarding to know how many people want the girl of my dreams. The problem or dilemma lies within another situation.

 

First, she is a personal trainer and works at a local gym. She works a lot of hours a week, and tells me about the stories on how her clients hit on her and how she has to remain professional and not be rude (unless it goes to far, which it never has). Then, this one guy (we'll call JR) appears. He is 28 yrs old (5 more than me) and my fiance caught his eye. She told me how he comes in only when shes working, talks up a storm and even comes in to see her even when he doesnt have time to work out. Harmless? Sure, but it gets worse. Facebook. 1-2 weeks later, she adds him to Facebook and she puts him on her privacy setting -- so he doesn't see her relationship status, wall posts, pictures of us (even our trip to Cuba), and etc. He doesn't know she's engaged or that I exist.

 

Next, he asks her to have a drink at a local sports bar and catch the hockey game. She doesn't tell me this -- i did the wrong deed of checking her Facebook (only after she checked in front of me and he had sent her a private message). She even asked if he 'creeped her profile' and he said 'of course' and how he cant wait to take her out. I bring it up (on the night she is supposed to go) after she tells me she has to go back to work. I tell her what I read in her inbox and she gets defensive and how she finds it flattering and that she would never cheat -- just go out and have fun. She then turns it on me for going into her account (to this day she has changed her password) She doesnt admit to the privacy settings and lies up a storm. She doesn't go that night as I am clearly pissed. (She later admitted to lying about going back to work and putting him on the privacy settings -- she told me it was like a backup plan if it didnt work out with us -- which i think is completely ridicolous).

 

Third -- Girl's Night (one week after the facebook lie). She gets ready with her girls and hits up the local bar. She calls me thru out the night and asks me to pick her up at 1am to come home. I do so (even leave my guy's night early) and she is bombed. She goes on to tell me that JR was there and how he was saying how much he likes her, wants to take her out, telling her that she doesnt want to be engaged now, and how she's not even in love and that it is infatuation. His friends even approach her telling her to ditch me and go for JR. Cue me being furious.

 

Now, I want her to do something about this. She exclaims that it is flattering and harmless. He still visits her at work and still MSN msgs her "hey sexy whats up" and so forth. She won't do anything (in her words and I quote) 'until he physically touches me, or tries to kiss me.' Yet, he verbally hits on her, and keeps trying to lure her in. I mean, there's only so much he has to do -- eventually will he be successful?

 

I have never met JR (yet) and he still is being a menace. My fiance won't tell him to stop ('i'm too nice and i dont want him to think im a bitch or stuck up') and I am clearly not happy and it has been on my mind for weeks now.

 

I am asking for your feedback and advice, and it is very much appreciated.

 

Best,

Confused and Furious

Edited February 18, 2008 by panopitcon

[Cobra_X30]

Now, I want her to do something about this. She exclaims that it is flattering and harmless. He still visits her at work and still MSN msgs her "hey sexy whats up" and so forth. She won't do anything (in her words and I quote) 'until he physically touches me, or tries to kiss me.' Yet, he verbally hits on her, and keeps trying to lure her in. I mean, there's only so much he has to do -- eventually will he be successful?

I have never met JR (yet) and he still is being a menace. My fiance won't tell him to stop ('i'm too nice and i dont want him to think im a bitch or stuck up') and I am clearly not happy and it has been on my mind for weeks now.

I am asking for your feedback and advice, and it is very much appreciated.

Best,

Confused and Furious

 

Listen to me bro! I've been there.

 

It doesnt matter why she is doing this... because I know all that is going through your head. Don't focus on the why. Only focus on her actions.

 

She is disrespecting you in the worst way. She will continue to do this because you permit it!

 

What you need to do is cancel the wedding. She is going to cry and throw tantrums to get her way, call you controlling and all that bull.

 

Fact is that I've dated a girl just like this. She continually flirted with other guys... obnoxiously so, she was super pretty. I thought, maybe I could just deal with all the flirting and constant competition... because she was really attractive, and maybe I couldnt do better. Nope, that was just a stupid fear.

 

I dumped her. Two weeks later I was happier than I had been in like 5 months. Free, no stress. Found someone better that week!

 

Seriously, put your foot down now... or regret it forever. I really doubt that this woman loves you. Why? Because she doesnt act like it.

[shakenandstirred]

This guy is not going to stop until he gets your girl. I repect your ability to be mature about the flirting, but her planning to go out with him behind your back is a bad judgement call on her part. She's playing with fire that she thinks is harmless. Pretty soon it will burn your relationship if she or you don't put a stop to it. If she is being secretive, especially if you two are getting married, then she is starting off on the wrong foot. Marriage is about two people sharing. I've been married or 21 years. I kinda know what I'm talking about here. I won't say my marriage hasn't had pitfalls, it has, but we survived by being totally honest. If she is started to carry on secertly with this guy, I would suggest that you tell her that as much as you love her, you do not want to be disrespected like that. I'm sure she wouldn't want you carrying on this way with another woman. Some women think they have a right to do things that at the time may seem harmless, but turn out wrecking the relationship. Men do the same too. If she is not ready to be committed to you and only you then you guys need to discuss the marriage issue a little bit more because I see nothing but trouble if you continue this way.

[Bryanp]

If she disrespects you in such a way while she is engaged to you; then you can only imagine what she will do after you are married. She is not acting like someone who is engaged to be married. Save yourself a lot of pain and look for someone else. She is not marriage material.

[mark982]

buddy,i was in "same" sitution as you 25 yrs. ago. you could be telling my story.dump her,believe me the heart ache will only get worse.

[StartingOver07]

she told me it was like a backup plan if it didnt work out with us -- which i think is completely ridicolous.

 

This is a HUGE red flag, imo.

 

People who are newly engaged should not be thinking about what will happen if it doesn't work out with "us."

 

She's trouble and she's not committed to you.

[blind_otter]

That's crazy! All she needs to do is put her foot down. I think all women know how to make unwanted men go away.

 

This is bad kim-chee.

 

I've had guys wear me down before. They just pursue you doggedly until you either break up with your current BF or cheat on your current BF. He totally does not respect your relationship and it's sort of obvious that she doesn't, either.

[panopitcon]

Thanks to everyone who posted so far, it is greatly appreciated.

 

The decision seems to be unanimous. And I am very upset at this ordeal. I mean, we're engaged for crying out loud. Her excuses include (which I should have mentioned earlier);

 

-'you're the only one i see'

-'it doesn't matter what he does'

-'youre making a big deal out of it'

etc etc

 

I mean, I did put up with a lot (with her ex-bf and so forth) but it has gone to far.

 

I am seeing her tonight and I will offer an update when I return home.

 

Thanks again, and more advice is always welcome!

[StartingOver07]

Thanks to everyone who posted so far, it is greatly appreciated.

 

The decision seems to be unanimous. And I am very upset at this ordeal. I mean, we're engaged for crying out loud. Her excuses include (which I should have mentioned earlier);

 

-'you're the only one i see'

-'it doesn't matter what he does'

-'youre making a big deal out of it'

etc etc

 

I mean, I did put up with a lot (with her ex-bf and so forth) but it has gone to far.

 

I am seeing her tonight and I will offer an update when I return home.

 

Thanks again, and more advice is always welcome!

 

Good luck.

 

There is no good reason -- absolutely none! -- for a person not to make his/her status known.

 

She is right that it doesn't matter what he does but what she's doing speaks volumes.

[sb129]

(She later admitted to lying about going back to work and putting him on the privacy settings -- she told me it was like a backup plan if it didnt work out with us -- which i think is completely ridicolous).

 

This alone would be reason enough to dump her. You don't say that to someone you are supposed to be getting married to.

 

When I got engaged, all I could TALK about was my engagement/ fiance. I still talk about him all the time. And I feel naked now without my engagement ring- I never leave home without it.

Does your fiance not wear hers to work?

[panopitcon]

This alone would be reason enough to dump her. You don't say that to someone you are supposed to be getting married to.

 

When I got engaged, all I could TALK about was my engagement/ fiance. I still talk about him all the time. And I feel naked now without my engagement ring- I never leave home without it.

Does your fiance not wear hers to work?

 

That's a good question. But she tells me she does. But I do second guess her, sometimes (can I be blamed?). Also, I know 'JR' knows, b/c she said she told and showed him -- and he told her it was fake and ridiculed her. He was in disbelief and did not believe it and continued with "I want to take you out" and "You are beautiful." (All what she told me about his reaction).

[Cobra_X30]

This is bad kim-chee.

 

I love this saying!

 

Thanks to everyone who posted so far, it is greatly appreciated.

 

The decision seems to be unanimous. And I am very upset at this ordeal. I mean, we're engaged for crying out loud. Her excuses include (which I should have mentioned earlier);

 

-'you're the only one i see'

-'it doesn't matter what he does'

-'youre making a big deal out of it'

etc etc

 

I mean, I did put up with a lot (with her ex-bf and so forth) but it has gone to far.

 

I am seeing her tonight and I will offer an update when I return home.

 

Thanks again, and more advice is always welcome!

 

I that suggest everyone go back and read your previous posts. It gives some clarity to the length of time you have been dealing with issues like this.

 

Do some soul searching, I think in the end you will want to break this off. Unless you can live with the disrespect.

[sb129]

That's a good question. But she tells me she does. But I do second guess her, sometimes (can I be blamed?). Also, I know 'JR' knows, b/c she said she told and showed him -- and he told her it was fake and ridiculed her. He was in disbelief and did not believe it and continued with "I want to take you out" and "You are beautiful." (All what she told me about his reaction).

 

He sounds like a real sleazebag- I can't believe the way she is lapping it up! If I got attention from someone like that it would be .

 

Anyone that is that disrespectful towards other peoples relationships is not going to turn out to be good relationship material.

 

If her friends are telling her to go for him, it sounds like they are all immature. (or just young and not ready for the idea of marriage).

 

There is a difference to being mature about flirting, and being taken advantage of. If I pulled ANY of those stunts your fiancee has pulled on you, my fiance would want his ring back, pronto.

Not that I would want to mind you, I love him to pieces.

The knowledge that he wouldn't put up with any kind of BS is good for our R- your fiancee needs to know that there are limits to the kind of behaviour she can dish out to you.

[sb129]

PS- I think that she is being unprofessional by having him as a facebook friend and meeting up with him at bars...

She sounds like she loves the attention.

 

I think postponing the wedding until you guys can sort it out is a good idea. She has to know that this kind of behaviour is unacceptable when you are engaged.

[shakenandstirred]

This JR guy sounds either pushy or he's a serial stalker. This man has no respect whatsoever. She probably thinks she can handle him, but I believe that he is too overbearing and will eventually wear her down. Which is his plan. If she doesn't put a stop to it immediately, you should confront him. She will be mad, but she is clearly enjoying the attention. Which is disrespectful to you and your engagement. He is doing the typical "steal your girl" routine. Talking you down and making himself look better. I bet you she knew he was going to be at that girls night out. That was part of the reason, if not the only reason she went. She went to see him and enjoy the attention. He would be on my "I'M GONNA KICK YOUR A@#!!! list

[zilverenvlinder]

I'm sorry. Your girlfriend is an idiot twit.

 

You can easily re-obtain her Facebook password. Because she's an idiot, she will probably have forgotten that she not only needs to change her FACEBOOK password, but her email address password as well.

 

This meaning, her email address password is PROBABLY the same as her facebook password, meaning you can request a "FORGOTTEN PASSWORD" and have it sent to her email address, where you can re-recover her Facebook idiocies.

 

If that fails, you can set up a keylogger for about 20 bucks. A small price to pay for finding the truth about some cheating slut you're supposed to marry.

 

And, to tell you the truth, I've cheated before, when I was younger. Girls like drama, so they will hint to you about the person they're having an affair with. This sounds like a fullblown confession, her telling you how much "JR" wants her.

 

Dude, I do not care how hot this twat is, you can find better.

[panopitcon]

Well, I just returned home after a long evening. I did a lot of thinking, taking everything into consideration and laid everything on the table. I brought up JR and told her how much it is affecting me, and how it is extremely disrespectful towards me, her, and us. She agreed; saying it wasn't a good thing -- but still thinks it is flattering. She told me she is not going to tell him to lay off and if it bugs me so much, I should do it. I don't know this guy from a hole in the ground -- just that he is trying to make his mark. She went on to assure me that he will never take her away and that she only has eyes for me -- and told me if he ever made a physical move on her she would be stern and 'end the friendship.' She told me she always wears her ring and told me to ask anyone there that I know (which I did and turned out to be true).

 

What more can I do? Do I confront JR? Go out of my way to find him? Send him a Facebook message? Ignore it?

 

I am still confused, but I do trust my fiance -- forgive and forget right? I mean, she hasn't cheated -- but I can't understand how she finds it so flattering that he comments her like it is going out of style (she told me that any girl loves compliments and it is harmless only until the guy makes a physical approach).

[sb129]

but still thinks it is flattering. She told me she is not going to tell him to lay off and if it bugs me so much, I should do it. but I can't understand how she finds it so flattering that he comments her like it is going out of style (she told me that any girl loves compliments and it is harmless only until the guy makes a physical approach).

 

 

It is not up to you to tell him to back off, it is up to HER. She has encouraged it (whether she thinks she has or not) and she knows the guy, hence its her job to tell him to back off out of respect and love for you.

 

If she values your R as much as she says she does, then she shouldn't need "flattering" from other guys, the attention she gets from you should be more than enough.

 

Girls love compliments, sure, but IMO if they are from other men who KNOW you are engaged, its creepy and I would not welcome them at all.

My fiance gives me all the compliments I need, and he is the only person I care about impressing.

 

YOur GF obviously has some insecurity issues, which are her problem, not yours, but unfortunately you are getting caught in the crossfire of them.

 

Lay it down straight to her. Either she tells JR to back off, or you walk.

[shakenandstirred]

I agree with sb129. Your girlfriend welcomes and encourages JR's behaviour. She is refusing to tell him to lay off because she likes the euphoric feeling of being desireable to another man. She must also have an attraction to him because she lets him say these things to her, knowing that she is engaged. It really is her responsibility to tell him to back off, I think she is testing you though. She wants to see if you will put a stop to it. I would show up at the gym surprisingly and see how she and he reacts when you are there. May I ask how old are you two? If she welcomes this while you are engaged, what will happen 2 5 10 years from now. I can almost guarantee there will be infidelity if this behaviour doesn't stop.

[Tripper]

Dude, PUT THE BRAKES ON TO THE WEDDING FAST!!

 

This girl is in no way ready to get married. Red flags abound!

 

Mature adults contemplating marriage are supposed to be in a serious relationship and DO NOT act in a way that makes their partner uncomfortable. She's got you checking on her on her facebook account, asking her coworkers if she wears her ring (would they lie for her?? whaddaya think?) and the trust is already eroding.

One night she'll sneak out for drinks with this pr1ck, get wasted and cross the line. Then you will be in the whole "oh woe is me, I made a mistake, forgive me" crap.

I'm not against having friends of the opposite sex. But her behaviour within this so called "friendship" is totally inappropriate.

Cut her loose, cut your losses and walk away.

[Walk]

I would say you need to post-pone the wedding for a couple years. Don't marry her right now. She broke your trust, and you shouldn't be forced to make a decision on spending the rest of your life with her after she broke that trust.

 

I cheated on my ex husband and it started out kind of the same as what you've described, although facebook didn't exist back then. I lied my a$$ off to my H about what was going on. Said the same things your fiance says to you. What REALLY speaks... the absolute ONLY thing to listen to when dealing with her right now, are her actions. Forget the rest.

 

Because she lied about meeting up with him, and she had gone to the trouble of planning the hook up, then her actions are saying she's willing to throw away your relationship for this guy. Doesn't matter if she says you're the only one for her. She's proven your not.

 

My suggestion... do what ever you have to do to put an end to this. Act fast, and be confident in what you do (or act confident). I'm not talking about beating up the other guy, but let your girl know that if she chooses to continue contact with JR that you are gone. Engagment will be over, and she will be free to pursue this JR guy without you in the picture. Give her complete control over the choice she makes, but set down the consequences and BACK THEM UP.

 

I would also tell her that she needs to give you access to her facebook. I wouldn't bother with the snooping stuff. If she's not hiding anything she wouldn't want you to know, then she'll let you see what she has been doing on there (she might put up a fight, but she'll show you). If she acts indignant and defensive about it, tell her you're calling her bluff. Don't get sucked into whether its morally wrong etc... just call her bluff. Lay it out for her. "Your actions say I can't trust you, if you want me to trust you then show me your facebook account." Let her know she has to show you through action that she can be trusted.

 

She chose to meet in secrecy with JR. She must deal with the consequences of her actions. She created the break in trust, she needs to work toward repairing it. If she won't... then you need to break it off with her. This isn't about whether or not she's actually touched JR phsycially to cheat. She's cheated YOU out of relationship of trust and mutual respect. Don't get caught up in all the ambigious gray areas of life. Keep it simple. She is acting in a way that is causing harm to your relationship. She has to prove that she has stopped acting that way, and prove that she is working to repair that trust. If she won't, then she needs to get out of your life.

 

And don't forget... she would have met up with JR if you hadn't discovered it. She didn't back out of it of her own free will... she didn't meet him because she got caught. She's telling you what you want to hear right now. Let her know she's got free will to do whatever she wants, but that you will dump her if she crosses the line again.

[shakenandstirred]

After reading what Walk wrote, I wouldn't want anything to do with your fiance'. Walk has laid out how beguiling a situation becomes when one seeks attention outside the relationship. Harmless at first, but if you keep adding wood to a fire, it get's bigger. The situation could be much bigger than she lets on. She could be getting "cold feet" about the engagement and testing waters elsewhere. Put your foot down, let her know if she doesn't put and end to it then the engagement is either postponed or over. You are about to be humiliated if you don't act fast and confident like Walk said. Don't be played for a fool, have more dignity than that. Don't let your fiance run all over you by disrespecting your wishes. She already has told you she wouldn't tell him to lay off. HUGE RED FLAG.

[panopitcon]

I can't thank you all enough for your advice and words of wisdom. After talking with her more about this today (in fact, she is very frustrated at the fact we are arguing and fighting), she basically told me that if she was in my shoes, she would contact the girl in question. However, I disagree and as it was said above, it's her place to end that not mine. She is clearly oblivious to the fact that he keeps trying, she told me he's just being friendly and 'joking.' Which is a huge croc, as he was doing his best to get her to can me and go for him. She keeps telling me I am trying to change who she is and I should just 'deal with the fact that all guys will hit on me.' Which IS inevitable, but her actions and reactions tell the story. She gave me this example; 'what do i say when someone says I look hot? be like...oh thanks but i have a fiance and you cant say that.' 'no thats stupid, and i dont want to be a bitch.')

 

I am basically giving ONE more chance, even though it is bound to go the wrong way but I guess I have faith, I guess it is my downfall. I am clearly had over heels for her, and I thought she was the same. I poured so much into this relationship, and feel that it's not being appreciated. I am not perfect, but there is a line, and it's being crossed.

 

I took zilverenvlinder's approach of getting a keylogger and actually have her passwords. However, I have yet to check them, and was wondering if I should.

 

shakenandstirred; I am 23, she is 24.

 

I mean, she hasn't cheated, and keeps telling me she never will. She also told me that 100% (yes, 100%) of ANY male she met, as always wanted a relationship, including best friends. What is up with that? She has literally no friends that just want to grab a coffee or a bite to eat, but actually want a relationship. Kinda sucks seeing as she has a lunch date tomorrow with her good friend (yes, male) during her break from 11am to 2pm.

 

It is difficult for me to visit her at work or work out there, which is something I want to do, just casually visit or something. See her reaction IF JR is there. We work pretty much at the same time, but different sides of town. Every time i have visited, JR hasn't been there. She is walking on thin ice, and her next actions and moves will be crucial. If she stops talking about JR completely, I am taking it has she is hiding something. Only because she usually brings him up when she sees him or he hits on her.

[StartingOver07]

She keeps telling me I am trying to change who she is and I should just 'deal with the fact that all guys will hit on me.' Which IS inevitable, but her actions and reactions tell the story. She gave me this example; 'what do i say when someone says I look hot? be like...oh thanks but i have a fiance and you cant say that.' 'no thats stupid, and i dont want to be a bitch.')

 

Good grief.

 

This has nothing to do with how hot she is and everything to do with how she presents and handles herself.

 

Yes, good-looking women will attract male atention. But women are also quite adept at presenting themselves in such a way that "taken" radiates from them, and men respect that. Yes, there will be the occasional jerk who pushes ahead anyway, but it's a myth that men just behave this way without encouragement from the woman.

 

I am willing to bet that if JR was ugly and broke your GF would find some way to shut him down and would not worry about being a "bitch."

 

 

,

[norajane]

She keeps telling me I am trying to change who she is and I should just 'deal with the fact that all guys will hit on me.' Which IS inevitable, but her actions and reactions tell the story. She gave me this example; 'what do i say when someone says I look hot? be like...oh thanks but i have a fiance and you cant say that.' 'no thats stupid, and i dont want to be a bitch.')

 

She can say, 'thanks, my fiancee thinks I'm really hot too'. And then she can stop encouraging him, stop setting up secret dates with him, stop flirting with him, stop contacting him, and get his ass off her facebook.

 

Your fiancee is a bitch to you in the way she doesn't care about your concerns and feelings and in the way she encourages attention from other men. Why so hard for her to be a bitch to some guy she's not planning on making a lifetime commitment to?

 

I am basically giving ONE more chance, even though it is bound to go the wrong way but I guess I have faith, I guess it is my downfall. I am clearly had over heels for her, and I thought she was the same. I poured so much into this relationship, and feel that it's not being appreciated. I am not perfect, but there is a line, and it's being crossed.

She already crossed wayyyyyy over the line, and, sorry, but you are being a doormat for taking it. She has no respect for you already, and unless you cancel the wedding, she's not going to get it that her behavior is a problem for someone who is supposedly making a marriage commitment. Even if you do cancel, I guarantee she will make it seem like you are the bad guy.

 

Dude, do you really want a lifetime of this kind of behavior from her? Of wondering who she's flirting with behind your back? Of wondering if she'd cheat if someone better comes along, like her friends are encouraging her to do with JR?

 

I mean, she hasn't cheated, and keeps telling me she never will. She also told me that 100% (yes, 100%) of ANY male she met, as always wanted a relationship, including best friends. What is up with that? She has literally no friends that just want to grab a coffee or a bite to eat, but actually want a relationship. Kinda sucks seeing as she has a lunch date tomorrow with her good friend (yes, male) during her break from 11am to 2pm.

Yes, guys use 'friendship' with a hot woman as code for 'woman i'd like to f*ck'. She is eating it up and will the rest of her life because she is an attention whore.

 

I apologize if this is harsh, but she is not marriage material. She has no concept of what loving someone means - she loves herself only. You are in for a world of pain and betrayal if you marry her.