Woggle Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I truly don't see how any man would get married without a prenup, When you look at the walkaway wife stories, the female midlife crisis and the way that women tend to fall out of love at the drop of a hat for no reason why would any man not want some protection just in case? It's just common sense. A man getting married without a prenup is like riding a motorcycle without a helmet or driving 100 mph with no seatbelt. Link to post Share on other sites
onmyownagain Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I got married because my stbxw was pregnant, hadn't really wanted it before that and was happy living together. Now we have split, she is still in the house we own and I am going into rented accomondation. I may be responsible for her for the rest of my life unless she gets married again at some stage. Pre nups don't count in the UK so couldn't have signed one if I wanted to. The above are really good reasons that a man should NEVER get married, doesn't bring us security. Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I truly don't see how any man would get married without a prenup, When you look at the walkaway wife stories, the female midlife crisis and the way that women tend to fall out of love at the drop of a hat for no reason why would any man not want some protection just in case? It's just common sense. A man getting married without a prenup is like riding a motorcycle without a helmet or driving 100 mph with no seatbelt. What about women getting married without a prenup? Many women earn more than their spouses these days. If you want to get into the nittygritty of it, over the next few years, my income is more likely to rise than my fiances. I also have more opportunity for investment/ growth in the future in my field than my fiance does in his. I am one of two children, and when my parents die, they will leave behind assets of a significant value- my partner is one of five children to parents who are no longer together, and do not have the same assets my parents have. Financially, who do you think should be protecting themselves more? Me or him? Or should we continue to try and love and trust eachother and manage our finances jointly the way we are doing now? Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Yea, that is why I am asking . I recently told my GF that i would never marry her or have kids (she wanted both). She gave me every reason to marry her but I held my ground. We had a perfect relationship up until that point compatible on almost every aspect except the marriage kid/thing. I figured she would have left me shortly after but she didn't. She decided to stick around and try to change me. After a bout a week she decided to stop having sex with me and that was when I told her that it was over. I haven't talk to her since. I was just asking to make sure I made the right decision. The marriage/kids thing is a huge issue to be incompatible over. I trust you told her your feelings on that matter in as sensitive a way as you could. It would be a very painful thing for anyone to have a hope as important and instinctive as motherhood shattered - but especially if it was done in a bluntly dismissive manner. Anyway. Whether you handled it sensitively or not, it's a pity that your gf didn't just take you at your word. Agree to split up as amicably as possible when it turned out you didn't want the same things. If it was an otherwise perfect relationship, however, I think it's understandable that she'd try to change your mind. Did she tell you why she'd decided to stop having sex with you? Link to post Share on other sites
HisLove Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I know my man will ask me to marry him because it's a sign of respect. I'm not somebody he will just shack up with. My own personal view, male or female, is that there is no GREATER acknowledgement to society and family of a commitment. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 What about women getting married without a prenup? Many women earn more than their spouses these days. If you want to get into the nittygritty of it, over the next few years, my income is more likely to rise than my fiances. I also have more opportunity for investment/ growth in the future in my field than my fiance does in his. I am one of two children, and when my parents die, they will leave behind assets of a significant value- my partner is one of five children to parents who are no longer together, and do not have the same assets my parents have. Financially, who do you think should be protecting themselves more? Me or him? Or should we continue to try and love and trust eachother and manage our finances jointly the way we are doing now? Many women do earn more but the courts don't look at them as walking wallets so there is no family court bias. Men are not prone to falling out of love at the drop of a hat and resenting their spouse for no reason like women are. Women initiate over 75% of divorces so a man is taking much more of a risk. Link to post Share on other sites
HisLove Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Women initiate divorces because they have the courage to do so. Men prefer to have affairs and HOPE their wives will end things to let them off the hook. Gutless wonders. I am one of those women who, in my last marriage, earned more than my husband and came into the relationship with most of the assets. Not true of my first marriage, in fact I wasn't even working when I separated the first time. So finances weren't the decider, my own integrity was. I get on great with my first exH. AVOID at any cost my second exH. Last night my daughter was in a car wreck, nobody hurt thank goodness, but her car is written off. She called me, I went to her, called a tow truck and dealt with it all. Today she called her Dad (my first exH) as she needed to get some info for getting a spare car we have back on the road. He asks why didn't we call him last night. My daughter and I looked at each other....we didn't call him because we didn't think to. We sort our own crap out. Not every woman is out to use men or take them for every cent. There are plenty of men who are parasites also. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Actually men that treat their wives well and don't cheat or abuse them are usually the ones that get blindsided by the I love you but I am not in love with you speech. Just look at some of the threads on this forum. These men need protection just in case. There needs to be an escape pod in case the marriage blows up in his face. Link to post Share on other sites
HisLove Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 In theory I agree with you. For both men and women. However, emotionally I cannot reconcile it, even if I'm the one being protected. So the way I can cope with this in myself now is to have very specific criteria for men I get involved with. I do break it down specifically, but basically the criteria is that he has to have more to lose than I do. Financially. Not because I want his money, but because I want him to think twice about the possibility of losing his finances if he were to do wrong by me. This makes perfect sense if you know me. I am loyal to a fault. I expect nothing less from my partner. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I am very loyal but most women are not so a man needs protection. I pulled myself out of poverty and I don't want to end up back there because my wife decides that she wants to go find herself. I don't want to end up back in poverty because the cashier at the supermarket smiled at her making her feel this amazing connection and now has fallen out of love and wants to see what else is out there. Link to post Share on other sites
HisLove Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Why do you think 'most' women aren't loyal? Or are you talking about women who found their husbands cheating and were royally ticked? My best friend is not in a happy marriage. She is calm and fair. She won't end the marriage because she will probably not survive the aftermath of his wrath. Doesn't matter that he's been miserable too. She is the sort of person who would leave the lot to him and go and rent somewhere and start again. He is the sort who would burn down the house with her in it out of vindictiveness. ? Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Many women in general will turn on a man at the drop of hate and it has nothing to do with mistreatment. Ironically it is the abusers and cheaters that women keep going back to over and over again while the good and decent men get the I love you but I am not in love with you speech. A prenup is divorce insurance for a man. Link to post Share on other sites
HisLove Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 So, assuming a prenup is going to happen. What's fair to you? 50/50? What if they both agree for the wife to stop work and be a stay-at-home-mom and forego her career options and advancement. Is that worth another 10-20% in 10 years time? If you were getting married right now, and you both agreed to a prenup - what sort of terms would you be willing to sign? Keep in mind her career could take off beyond yours, or stall with having to look after a sick and disabled child. What is fair to you? Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 You didn't answer my question. Actually, the courts in some countries do award men more money if the wife is the higher earner. Some landmark cases happened here in the UK a few years back. You should look them up before you start off with your generalised accusations again. Many women do earn more but the courts don't look at them as walking wallets so there is no family court bias. Men are not prone to falling out of love at the drop of a hat and resenting their spouse for no reason like women are. Women initiate over 75% of divorces so a man is taking much more of a risk. :rolleyes::rolleyes: Once again, a gender specific generalisation that is ridiculous. Hogwash. I am not even going to bother with you this time Woggle. You are clearly spending far too much time reading about divorce and adultery, and hanging out with that wronged friend of yours instead of opening your mind and enjoying your marriage with a very tolerant woman. Good luck with your self fulfilling prophecy... I guess we will all still be here to say i told you so when you finally drive your wife insane with your narrow mindedness and conviction that all women are evil. She is a saint your wife, i will give her that. Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 A prenup is divorce insurance for a man. This is just nonsense. As if a woman would never have anything to protect with a prenupt. Prenupts are not for men, they are for anyone who wishes to protect assets accumulated prior to the marriage or assets they knew they stood to gain thru ventures made prior to the relationship. Both men and women may have these. I don't like the indications behind prenupts; the idea that you enter the union with your exit plan in mind seems to call into question whether you should make such a commitment to your partner in the first place. The whole idea that you think you might need it sort of indicates that you are uncertain and if you are, why get married in the first place.... BUT, if it is a joint prenupt, one that just outlines a fair resolution should the marriage go poorly, its not a the worst idea. It just means that if the long haul proves the two to be incompatible, either of them feeling raw and vengeful over it will have to deal with their emotions in therapy or silence rather than try to screw the other person over. A prenupt can just be a contract holding both parties to dissolving it maturely and fairly despite any hard feelings over its end. When the BF and I tie the knot, we will probably have such an agreement that protects us BOTH. Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I agree Sally4Sara. Esp with this: The idea that you enter the union with your exit plan in mind seems to call into question whether you should make such a commitment to your partner in the first place. The whole idea that you think you might need it sort of indicates that you are uncertain and if you are, why get married in the first place.... Seeing as my fiance and I are going into our marriage with no individual assets of note (except for a kick ass record collection (mine) and alot of fishing equipment (his), we don't really see the point of a prenup. I think it goes without saying that if we split he gets the fishing gear... Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 People drive while wearing a seatbelt People wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle. Why then should a man not have a prenup while going into marriage? I don't want my marriage to fail but I know how women can be and if my marriage should ever implode I will have protection. A man can never be 100% certain because anyday he can wake up and be married to a stranger. It might look like his wife but it is a whole new woman that now resents the hell out of him and blames him for all her unhappiness and a man should be prepared for a moment like that. Link to post Share on other sites
HisLove Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Well seeing you have such strong opinions about this, do you have a prenup Woggle? And what are the terms? Does your wife know you think along these terms? Come on, let's be honest here. Link to post Share on other sites
onmyownagain Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 When I married, we had nothing. But over the years my career has built but my wife has changed her career a few times when she got bored. I am the bigger earner so we could afford to let her do this. But most of the things we own I have paid for but when we split I was the one who had to leave the house. The norm is for the wife to keep the child and the house until they leave school. No point saying it doesn't matter what sex you are, nine times out of ten this is what happens. Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 People drive while wearing a seatbelt People wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle. Why then should a man not have a prenup while going into marriage? I don't want my marriage to fail but I know how women can be and if my marriage should ever implode I will have protection. A man can never be 100% certain because anyday he can wake up and be married to a stranger. It might look like his wife but it is a whole new woman that now resents the hell out of him and blames him for all her unhappiness and a man should be prepared for a moment like that. It goes both ways mate. A woman should have a prenup to protect herself from when her husband no longer finds her attractive (because she has born and raised his children, and she is not as young as she was), and shags or goes off with a younger model. A ridiculous statement really, because not ALL marriages go this way. But its the counter statement to yours Woggle, you have to see both sides of the coin if you insist on arguing this way. I am still not convinced either way that a prenup is necessary for my upcoming marriage. IN fact, my fiance thinks they are ridiculous. And he is a man who has been cheated on in the past :eek: Go figure! Maybe he actually loves and trusts me?vc:o Link to post Share on other sites
onmyownagain Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Go figure! Maybe he actually loves and trusts me?vc:o Everyone starts off this way. Nobody expects to divorce one day. Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 People drive while wearing a seatbelt People wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle. Why then should a man not have a prenup while going into marriage? I don't want my marriage to fail but I know how women can be and if my marriage should ever implode I will have protection. A man can never be 100% certain because anyday he can wake up and be married to a stranger. It might look like his wife but it is a whole new woman that now resents the hell out of him and blames him for all her unhappiness and a man should be prepared for a moment like that. How is this something only men need worry about? Its not by far, plain and simple. Any man getting married thinking he is the only one in need of prenupt protection will probably doom his marriage with paranoia anyway. I'd sign a prenupt that protects both people's interests and holds us both to a fair resolution if things ended, but I'd never marry a guy who thinks his interests are the only ones important enough to protect. I would see him as a self interested and faithless coward lacking in enough character to be my equal. If he can't consider my interests worth protecting, he isn't thinking of me as a partner. I think we've gotten off topic. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 A needs a prenup more because the courts are not biased in his favor and men don't tend to wake up one day and become a completely different person that resents his wife. Yes I have a prenup and it is 20 pages long plus I had my lawyer look over it so it is pretty solid. I would not have gotten married without it. Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Hogwash. I am not even going to bother with you this time Woggle. You are clearly spending far too much time reading about divorce and adultery, and hanging out with that wronged friend of yours instead of opening your mind and enjoying your marriage with a very tolerant woman. It's unfortunate that Woggle feels the need to take over every thread relating to "men and marriage" to regurgitate his personal issues. It seems to me that although the OP opened this thread up with a general question, there was a recent event in his romantic life that he may have been looking to discuss a bit. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I am not taking over this thread. This thread is about men and marriage and I explaining many of the risks a man faces in marriage so this is very relevant to the topic. Link to post Share on other sites
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