why should a man get married?

[HisLove]

Sorry, Woggle, but for somebody who is apparently legally 'covered' against your evil wife taking you for a big ride because she has nothing better to do, you seem awfully bitter about this topic.

 

?

 

Are her rights covered equally?

[blind_otter]

Eh, I've gone on record saying I don't like the idea of marriage, for myself. I guess in the end I will do it, because it will make my SO happy, but it's no big deal to me if I live with him for the rest of my life, or if we go to the courthouse and get a dumb receipt from the government saying we paid X dollars to be able to file our taxes jointly (which I doubt I will ever do).

 

I've pretty much always felt that marriage is an antiquated institution, originally designed to facilitate the transfer of property between father and groom. Part of that property was the wife.

 

I did the whole big frou-frou wedding. It was a headache, and in the end it was for my GUESTS, not for me or my then-husband. It cost a lot of money and made me really stressed out. I don't think I would ever do that ever ever again.

 

I also think it's pretty damn cheesy to get married more than once. I made a promise to myself that I would only get married once, when I was young. I ****ed it up, the whole thing was ****ed up. I will feel slightly stupid to be doing it all over again.

 

I might have a committment ceremony. That would be nice. No paperwork involved.

 

I like the idea that I am with my SO because I chose to be, rather than because I am bound by law.

[HisLove]

So, BlindOtter, why did you marry your first husband... "because I chose to be, rather than because I am bound by law."

 

?

 

It was a choice you made, a function and ceremony you set up and participated in willingly. No?

 

Nobody is bound by LAW to marry another person. It may be spiritual, cultural, heck even a personal choice and desire, but it is never LAW to have to be married.

[Woggle]

Sorry, Woggle, but for somebody who is apparently legally 'covered' against your evil wife taking you for a big ride because she has nothing better to do, you seem awfully bitter about this topic.

 

?

 

Are her rights covered equally?

 

I am not really bitter but I have been through hell and back with women until I met my wife so I feel I am qualified to speak on this subject.

 

Yes her rights are covered as well.

[sally4sara]

I am not taking over this thread. This thread is about men and marriage and I explaining many of the risks a man faces in marriage so this is very relevant to the topic.

 

No wogs, the thread is "why should a man get married" not "should you get married, these are all the things you should do to protect you from making a poor choice" or even "Women are evil! Here is how to have a woman and not live in terror!" (which you don't seem to be very good at BTW)

What could be a thread outlining various benefits for men in marriage is now yet another thread about your mom and ex wife and how you think your wife will become like them.

And stupid me, taking your bait everytime. Everyone is just hoping to help you see the ex and mom aren't lurking in every female and it pulls the thread out of topic everytime.

[HisLove]

So the prenup is in place, everybody is taken care of, so WHY did YOU get married to your wife Woggle?

[blind_otter]

So, BlindOtter, why did you marry your first husband... "because I chose to be, rather than because I am bound by law."

 

?

 

It was a choice you made, a function and ceremony you set up and participated in willingly. No?

 

Nobody is bound by LAW to marry another person. It may be spiritual, cultural, heck even a personal choice and desire, but it is never LAW to have to be married.

 

I didn't say anyone was bound by law to marry anyone else. I said that if you're married to them, you are bound to them by law. Which is true. You are.

 

I got married to my exH when I was barely 21 years old. I was young, naieve, and stupid. I didn't WANT to get married. I had cold feet the entire time. The day I was supposed to get married I had a horrible panic attack. My mom popped a xanax in my mouth and pushed me down the aisle.

 

TBH I didn't participate willingly. I did so, looking back, because it was "expected" of me. All the women in my family married between the ages of 19-21. I just blindly followed tradition because I was young and very very dumb.

 

I'm a lot older now. I have a much more developed sense of self. I know what I want out of life, and I know myself better, and I am not bound by my family's expectations any more.

 

I plan on telling my child that he shouldn't get married until he's older than 26. At least his frontal lobe will be fully matured by then...

[HisLove]

Oh I can totally relate to that BlindOtter. I too was married young the first time. On the way to the church in the limousine I knew I shouldn't be doing it, but I went through with it anyway. My parents would have supported me no matter what I decided, yes or no. But I was young and stupid. It was nobody's decision but my own.

 

He is still a dear man. If ever I was in serious trouble, I know I could go to him and ask for help.

[carhill]

I do break it down specifically, but basically the criteria is that he has to have more to lose than I do. Financially. Not because I want his money, but because I want him to think twice about the possibility of losing his finances if he were to do wrong by me

 

I'm interested in this philosophy. Can you expand? I'm particularly interested in the part where money isn't highly valued but apparently the power it wields or conveys is.

 

More importantly, I'm enamored of the practicality some (many) women have regarding such issues and how it reconciles with emotion. Is this synthesized or compartmentalized and how is this achieved? Do cultural stereotypes intrude?

 

I'm curious, in a culture/world that is increasingly "equal", why a woman would have such a concern about "security". Currently, my wife earns more than I do, but, earlier in the marriage, I earned more than she did. Life circumstances (mainly my mother's illness and its effect on me financially) have dictated this shift. My wife is increasingly concerned about "security", though I have no such concerns. We'll make it, financially, even if we need to "cut back". Her lack of faith in me, though, is putting our marriage at risk.

 

If I can understand this better, maybe I can understand her perspective better, and, hence why I should be married (not bad for a segue back to topic).

[Woggle]

So the prenup is in place, everybody is taken care of, so WHY did YOU get married to your wife Woggle?

 

Because she actually does seem like she is one of the good ones and I love her dearly. I vowed to never marry again before I met her but the fact that she agreed to the prenup with no protest was a good sign..

[HisLove]

Carhill, my personal philosophy is based on being burned financially. Looking back (many years) I think my 2nd husband was a gold digger. I had the major assets when we hooked up. Let's say it was 95-5% in my favour. Property settlement happens many years later and I have to settle (all things being equal while together which was horse**** because I ALWAYS earned more than him) at 70-30%. That means he walks out with more than triple, 4 times, 5 times, what he entered with.

 

Whatever.

 

So in order to protect myself again, and I come with not measly assets, (not wealthy either), I figure my best bet is to be quite cold and calculated about it. As I said before, I don't want to profit from their money if we part company. I want them to to have more to lose than what I do financially (if they do the wrong thing by me) and to think twice before doing it.

 

I pay my own way. I don't want to be taken care of. My experience is tht morals and promises don't work, so maybe the bottom dollar does.

[carhill]

Carhill, my personal philosophy is based on being burned financially.

 

This makes good sense and sounds a lot like my wife, whom I respect, and who was married twice prior. Our situation might be an example of how life circumstances cause changes in what was prior to marriage.

 

I currently risk the same result as you did with #2, though I wouldn't classify my wife as a "gold digger", and she does currently earn more than me. Is that keeping me in the marriage? Unclear at this juncture.

 

Perhaps your situation is a perfect example of why someone should have a LTR and not get married. I would think removing the finances from the picture would make for a much more mutually satisfying relationship, in light of the past. Where both partners come together as equals, separate residences could be maintained, if common-law statutes were an issue.

 

Thanks for your input. I'll talk to my wife about that. Perhaps there were some things about her second marriage she did not explain to me. This security thing is what I would call "non-negotiable" with her.

[HisLove]

Where I live, Carhill, means that if we live together for more than 6 months (legally married or not), then both of us are considered to be a spouse (albeit defacto) for property settlement purposes.

 

So it makes no difference to property settlement whether we are legally married or not if we have been living together for 6 months or more. If I came into that relationship with $1M and he came in with $10m - the $11M is considered to be a joint asset and dealt with appropriately. The courts are reasonable, so if we were together for 6 months and 1 day they may not be as accommodating as being together for 9 years. It's all relative.

[JerseyShortie]

Actually, I don't really know why men choose to get married. It doesn't seem like most men are ever happy with the one woman they have anyway.

[carhill]

Where I live, Carhill, means that if we live together for more than 6 months (legally married or not), then both of us are considered to be a spouse (albeit defacto) for property settlement purposes.

 

Definitely separate residences, then. I've seen this a lot with older , often widowed, couples, who have substantial assets. No real reason to get married and easy ability to have their own space.

[stillafool]

I think a better question is "Why do women get married?" It seems that all the really hard work falls on them. Our hormones make us do crazy things and sometimes make really bad decisions.

[stillafool]

Oh and I think so many people show up to watch you take your wedding vows is simple - free food, drinks and fun. I'm always ready to attend someone's wedding.

[Pyro]

I truly don't see how any man would get married without a prenup, When you look at the walkaway wife stories, the female midlife crisis and the way that women tend to fall out of love at the drop of a hat for no reason why would any man not want some protection just in case? It's just common sense. A man getting married without a prenup is like riding a motorcycle without a helmet or driving 100 mph with no seatbelt.

 

So why in the heck did you marry someone then?

 

Even though she signed your prenup, you are still scared as hell about her leaving you?

 

She could have signed her life away to you and you would still worry about it.

 

You should have stayed single.

[nittygritty]

I think a better question is "Why do women get married?" It seems that all the really hard work falls on them. Our hormones make us do crazy things and sometimes make really bad decisions.

 

I think the best question would be "Why does anybody get married?"

 

How many people who marry, will not ever go through the experience of divorce at least one time in their life?

 

Its much rarer to find happily married couples who have successful first marriages that have stayed together "until death do they part".

[Pyro]

I think the best question would be "Why does anybody get married?"

 

How many people who marry, will not ever go through the experience of divorce at least one time in their life?

 

Its much rarer to find happily married couples who have successful first marriages that have stayed together "until death do they part".

 

or better yet: "why does anyone who has any doubts about marriage get married to begin with?"

[nittygritty]

or better yet: "why does anyone who has any doubts about marriage get married to begin with?"

 

True but doubts aren't usually present when people get married.

 

I think pre-marital counseling and pre-nups are good ways to attempt to cover more bases but still no gaurantees that the marriage will succeed.

 

You can think you know your partner truly well and still marriage changes people. Hopefully, for the better.

 

I know there are good marriages. There just seems to be fewer these days.

Edited February 22, 2008 by nittygritty

[serial muse]

Like B_O, I did the big frou-frou wedding with my exH, and I don't know that I would ever do that again. Definitely got it out of my system, if it ever was in there.

 

I suppose I'd like to get married again, in theory, but I don't know if it'll happen anytime soon. Whatever illusions I had that marriage ensures a certain level of commitment were pretty much shattered by my exH's infidelity (and yep, I did the filing for divorce, because my exH didn't want to be "the bad guy." Erm, too late!). So I wouldn't get married again to ensure anything, I don't think. As far as a prenup, I'm not sure what I think about that. Again, my experience is the opposite of Woggle's hypothesis, because I was the one with pre-existing assets and my exH actually threatened to try to take a chunk of them. While carrying on his affair. The man was a total class act.

 

Anyhoo. I guess deep at heart I'm a romantic and I love the idea of marriage, but whenever I think about the reality I get panicky. I know I was badly burned. So yes, I wonder why I would even want to do it again.

 

And yet, deep deep deep down, I know I do. I do think of it as some kind of formal statement of choice to be together, whether it's in front of a judge or in a church or in front of Elvis in Las Vegas. It's just that trusting that this time around it's going to last feels like so much more of a leap than when I was younger and didn't really know just how wrong things could go.

 

So in a way I can understand Woggle's prenup "test," which is really what it was. He created a huge hurdle and his wife willingly jumped over it. Despite what he says, I suspect the "biased" courts and 75% statistics are just red herrings for the real reason behind the prenup, which is plain old fear that she doesn't love him as much as he wants her to. So he set her a test; she passed with flying colors and has thus done what she can to prove it on his terms, and I'm glad he gives her credit for it.

 

(By the way, I know at least half a dozen women who filed for divorce because their husbands had cheated and/or didn't have the guts to do it themselves, or had somehow convinced themselves it's more "gentlemanly" or "chivalrous" to allow the woman to choose when to actually file. I don't know why they think that, and I don't have an opinion on the matter - perhaps, in some cases, it is a considerate thing to let the betrayed/dumped person decide when to file - but I think it's fairly common, and it's a point that's often raised about that silly 75% statistic. On a larger scale, whether or not cheating is involved, and whoever left who, I think that maybe there's some unspoken belief that the woman should be the one to do it - whether out of an odd sense of chivalry or out of fear of being regarded by friends and family as a jerk, I don't know. And I could be totally wrong. Still, these kinds of issues never do seem to get addressed by the people who like to trot out that hoary old statistic as a backhanded way to diss the ladies. >shrug<)

Edited February 22, 2008 by serial muse

[Pyro]

True but doubts aren't usually present when people get married.

 

I think pre-marital counseling and pre-nups are good ways to attempt to cover more bases but still no gaurantees that the marriage will succeed.

 

You can think you know your partner truly well and still marriage changes people. Hopefully, for the better.

 

I know there are good marriages. There just seems to be fewer these days.

 

You are right about that, but some people have the doubts before they even decide to get married.

 

Good marriages are a rarity in todays age, but I am not going to let other peoples bad experiences scare me away from doing something that I want to do someday. If it succeeds, good for me, but if it fails, its a risk that I took and I was glad to take a risk and not hide behind fear.

[sb129]

Everyone starts off this way. Nobody expects to divorce one day.

 

This is true. However, my fiance and I are not 21, we have both been around the block a few times, and have had a few failed Rs between us to be able to recognise the good qualities that this one has.

Thats as good enough of a head start as any, I think.

 

How is this something only men need worry about? Its not by far, plain and simple. Any man getting married thinking he is the only one in need of prenupt protection will probably doom his marriage with paranoia anyway. I'd sign a prenupt that protects both people's interests and holds us both to a fair resolution if things ended, but I'd never marry a guy who thinks his interests are the only ones important enough to protect. I would see him as a self interested and faithless coward lacking in enough character to be my equal. If he can't consider my interests worth protecting, he isn't thinking of me as a partner.

I think we've gotten off topic.

 

Absolutely.

 

Where I live, Carhill, means that if we live together for more than 6 months (legally married or not), then both of us are considered to be a spouse (albeit defacto) for property settlement purposes.

 

So it makes no difference to property settlement whether we are legally married or not if we have been living together for 6 months or more. If I came into that relationship with $1M and he came in with $10m - the $11M is considered to be a joint asset and dealt with appropriately. The courts are reasonable, so if we were together for 6 months and 1 day they may not be as accommodating as being together for 9 years. It's all relative.

 

Where I come from, and where my fiance and I will be living has exactly the same laws as this. Therefore we don't even need to get married- its because we want to.

 

 

Its much rarer to find happily married couples who have successful first marriages that have stayed together "until death do they part".

I know a few...

 

 

Good marriages are a rarity in todays age, but I am not going to let other peoples bad experiences scare me away from doing something that I want to do someday. If it succeeds, good for me, but if it fails, its a risk that I took and I was glad to take a risk and not hide behind fear.

 

Me either Pyro. I am going into this marriage with open eyes. We have talked alot about finances, and have followed a few pre-marriage counselling type questionnaires.

 

You can't predict the future, I have no idea whether we will stick together forever or not.

 

Que sera sera...

[Pyro]

How is this something only men need worry about? Its not by far, plain and simple. Any man getting married thinking he is the only one in need of prenupt protection will probably doom his marriage with paranoia anyway. I'd sign a prenupt that protects both people's interests and holds us both to a fair resolution if things ended, but I'd never marry a guy who thinks his interests are the only ones important enough to protect. I would see him as a self interested and faithless coward lacking in enough character to be my equal. If he can't consider my interests worth protecting, he isn't thinking of me as a partner.

I think we've gotten off topic.

 

I can't believe I missed this one before but its genius.