Serious consequences of adultry

[Tomcat33]

Its also very easy to rationalize and justify poor behavior by blaming it on the only other person in the marriage. Who's truly to say which is the truth in ANY of these situations? I doubt that even the people actually IN the situation can objectively stand back and see "the truth".

 

Truth in these cases is ALWAYS subjective...the WS has one "truth", the BS another "truth"...and reality is most likely somewhere between the two.

 

 

No one is trying to rationalize bad behaviour it is not a matter of it making sense or not of it being accepted or not it is a matter of the different degrees of pressure or circumstances that drive people to do things, and that could just be a matter of not knowing how to handle pressure to the extreme of being placed under extreme pressure EVERY CASE is different.

 

In the case of my ex he always said and still to this day will say that it was HIS doing, that he was the one who had wanted out, that he was the one that was the one that was unsure of what he felt for this woman for quite some time, hence they never had children. And I am convinced it is his way of saving face of having dignity in all this in having pride enough to not want to come right out and admit "I felt very unloved I felt abandonded" when in fact his doubts of the future boubly compounded pretty much after they got back from their honeymoon when she took off abroad for half a year, they were newlyweds and she was studying abroad and he offered to go and stay with her since he felt there was no point in being in seperate countries and really wanted to be by her side, to which she responded "no that's not a good idea you would only be getting in the way of my studies I need to focus" At this point he was certain he had made a huge mistake. It was only donwhill from there the years to come after that became a tug of war between who could distance themselves more and who could outdo each other more.

 

So the point is that EVERY situation is different, people break marriage vows in many deep and hurtful ways and it is not necessarily only with the act of "infidelity" so to those that philander it's one thing but to those that lost their path somewhere along the way and left their hearts open to something else it is case by case. You can't deny that and no one should sits on a throne casting judgement on anyone because each case IS different. Each person's choice is PERSONAL and it reflects their reality. Sure the act of cheating is a selfish one, it IS a VERY selfish one no one di denying that but some people have been in a selfish marriage for many years and that act alone is just another manifestation of other many acts that are just as selfish and that are happening on BOTH ends.

And we all know two wrongs don't make a right but that's life, people do commit wrongs knowing what is right.

 

We place extreme weight on infidelity because it is the MOST violent blow to the ego but there are many blows that happend daily that DON'T involve another person thar are just as harmful, and it happens from both sides no one couple is excempt to one way negtivitiy unless a persons is abusive of another in which case then why even be with someone like that.

 

It's just funny how it takes an A to realise what these other blows are, to rectify them.

[twice_shy]

Well said OE.. I totally agree... in a lot of cases, the BS is to blame..

 

The BS is never to "blame" for someone elses pathetic cheating ways.

 

If things with the spouse are not so great, then get out of the marriage.

 

But it does not surprise me that you would like to take a swipe at BS's here.

[twice_shy]

I've always said that sometimes an A is good for the marriage..

 

Sure, if the BS is happy being a cuckold.

[Owl]

Reposting this, because I never did see an answer, and I'm interested in the response:

 

I will say there has been a positive for me on my PA. That upset my wife a great deal but she also came to realize that she had completely shut me out of her life, gained tons of weight, and moved out the bedroom and sleeps in another bedroom every night.

 

Would you say that you're glad you had the affair?

 

Would your wife say that SHE's glad you had the affair?

 

Do the positives outweigh the negatives...for BOTH of you?

__________________

[Mustang Sally]

This appears to be very narrowminded thinkng.

 

The situation was where my wife wanted nothing to do with me well before I had any type of either EA or PA.

 

Anyways, I do not have to justify my actions to you but I think you need to try to get rid of all your preconceived notions that you know what is best for everyone else.

 

Most of the people have complicated situations that is not as simple as classifying each action as good ro bad,, selfish or unselfish.

 

Dean

So, Dean.

You are saying that when one spouse neglects another, it is justification for the neglected spouse to go outside the marriage and seek whatever is being denied them by their spouse, is that correct?

 

I just would appreciate some clarification on this, if you would oblige me.

 

Thanks.

[Tomcat33]

So, Dean.

You are saying that when one spouse neglects another, it is justification for the neglected spouse to go outside the marriage and seek whatever is being denied them by their spouse, is that correct?

 

I just would appreciate some clarification on this, if you would oblige me.

 

Thanks.

 

 

I think he means that when a person neglects their rel. they leave room for outside intrusions. A couple that is united and sticks together is not susceptible to external interference. Neglect doesn't happen on a down week, or over night in one day, it happens on a downward spiral over an extended periods of time, the wedge between two people becomes so wide that this is how they become strangers living under the same roof. When your partner becomes a stranger, your focus changes therefore leaving yourself wide-open to the attention of someone that happens to be there offering you everything you no longer get at home.

 

 

A lot of people who say "I never meant for this to happen" when speaking for their affair, really didn't go out looking for anything an innocuous friendship or acquaintance or work relation turned into something that made them feel good, it made them feel appreciated again it made them feel alive. The rest happens naturally, we seek pleasure so it's no wonder people persist and do the unspeakable, it makes them feel like they are worthy again. Neglect in a relationship can eat away at a person's self esteem a lot of people who cheat claim to have their self esteem in a low state a relationship can do this to, and NO can claim a relationship does not do this to a person with the healthiest of self esteems. The combination of things leads a person to act selfishly.

 

 

One of the first things my ex said to me was, "I know this is wrong and I know I never imagined doing this but I feel like I want to do something for me for once I feel like I have given so much and I have nothing more to give I just want to do what feels good to me for once, feel like being selfish" People can be certain ways and act certain ways given circumstances but that does not make them WHO they are. You cannot peg a person with a label given how they acted during ONE particular circumstance we are more dynamic than that, we are not two dimensional characters.

 

You can have a nervous breakdown today and come over to the other side tomorrow and you should not be pegged as a "lunatic" because of that. Or you can be depressed due to life circumstances and fall into a deep rut but that doesn't mean you should be labeled for being manic depressive. People who live their lives a certain way are labled by who they are, a circumstance does not make a person. We are always in transition and constantly changing and evolving (some of us more than others) so who we are is circumstancial.

[twice_shy]

Too many times I see people using the term "neglect" with regards to things like no sex.

 

I've seen it too many times where if a spouse thinks that sex once a week is neglect and uses it to jusify an affair.

 

So basically the message this poster has to people is, "do what I want, when I want! And don't you dare gain any weight either, or I'll bone someone else!!"

 

I think this guy's wife needs to kick him out of the house and get a good attorney.

[Tomcat33]

Too many times I see people using the term "neglect" with regards to things like no sex.

 

I've seen it too many times where if a spouse thinks that sex once a week is neglect and uses it to jusify an affair.

 

So basically the message this poster has to people is, "do what I want, when I want! And don't you dare gain any weight either, or I'll bone someone else!!"

 

.

 

 

Excuse me but maintaining yourself physically desirable to your mate IS important and doing the opposite of that is a form of neglect to yourself and to your partner, and to let yourself and to become a completely different person than a person married. So yes it IS neglect. There is no excuse for letting yourself go, it is all part of taking care of what you have in every sense of the word. If you don't love yourself how could you possibly expect your mate to love you? Letting yourself go is NOT loving yourself.

 

The idea that love is unconditional is BULLCRAP, romantic love is NOT unconditional otherwise complaining a partner breaks the fidelity pact is setting conditions, if there are no conditions then monogamy and commitment should NOT be a condition we should be able to love unconditionally and allow our partners to be as they wish. We all know "that ain't happenin' so you can't place rules for one thing and not for the other.

 

When two people form a couple they are entering life in a pair and within that pairing changes will happen, if a person negelcts themselves physically this will also affect the wellbing of the relationship. Your needs cannot be met by someone who has changed so drastically physically and who's self esteem is now so low because of that they don't even want sex anymore because they feel both emotionally and physically unappealing. It is an important need like any other and it should NOT be taken lightly. Just because the paper is signed it does not give a person card blanche to let themselves go and expect the same level of interest from their partner it is totally unrealistic and cruel.

Edited February 27, 2008 by Tomcat33
typos

[the_dean]

Well Stated Tomcat.

 

I have always failed to see how someone neglecting their physical appearance for themselves and their partner is any different than any other form of neglect.

 

And yes love is CONDITIONAL regardless of what people think.

 

How many of you would hoenstly love your spouse if they a) cheated on you nightly, b) gained 200 lbs, 3) starting smoking crack nightly, etc. Anyone could find a line to where they would no longer love their partner.

 

Love is conditional.

[OpenBook]

I've seen it too many times where if a spouse thinks that sex once a week is neglect and uses it to jusify an affair.

 

So basically the message this poster has to people is, "do what I want, when I want! And don't you dare gain any weight either, or I'll bone someone else!!"

 

You know, we can debate the rights & wrongs & who's to blame until the cows come home. But it doesn't change the fact that a man is more likely to cheat if his W has let herself go. There are inherent risks. That being said...

 

I think this guy's wife needs to kick him out of the house and get a good attorney.

 

I actually agree with this. It would be a deal-breaker for me, even if I weighed 576 lbs. There's just no turning back once that line is crossed. But it's my understanding that many W's don't feel that way. They don't want to give up on him or the M. I don't think I'll ever understand why... but to each his own, I guess.

 

The idea that love is unconditional is BULLCRAP, romantic love is NOT unconditional otherwise complaining a partner breaks the fidelity pact is setting conditions, if there are no conditions then monogamy and commitment should NOT be a condition we should be able to love unconditionally and allow our partners to be as they wish. We all know "that ain't happenin' so you can't place rules for one thing and not for the other.

 

Love is conditional.

 

I believe that love in its purest form is unconditional. However, I believe that MARRIAGE is absolutely conditional. In fact, I think it's TOO conditional. The couple makes so many promises to each other, and holds so many expectations out of their partner and the M, they're setting themselves up for failure.

[Tomcat33]

. We both have thinning hair and a bit more gray, but I always saw the man I married, I never wanted anyone else. He did. It didn't matter what he looked like, or if he aged, it was still the person I married. We had problems like all marriages do, but a real marriage should never be based on superficial things like looks and the number of times a couple has sex. Those are just excuses for cheating.

 

The harsh reality is a lot of men don't feel the same way.

 

The number of times a couple has sex is NOT a superficial thing it is a very big component and a crucial part of the intimacy that is built between two people that also acts as the glue that holds them together.

 

If you (you as in the general "you") think sex is superficial, marriage should not be an option for you. A devotion to god in a convent perhaps would be a better choice of life.

[Tomcat33]

It is a sad fact that some males call themselves men, when in fact they don't have a clue what it is to be a man.

 

 

 

I hate to break it to you but that IS being a man.

 

I don't know where people get this ficticious idea of what a "man" is suposed to be like?

 

Men like sex, men want sex, men need to feel attracted to their partners in a physical sense as well as in all the other senses. And I don't think most women are all that different. The difference is women can prob go through extended periods of time without sex where as men cannot.

 

I think we need to sit down and clearly define each gender, not this utopian fantasy definition concoted up in a woman's head of what a man is. We need to see what him for who he really is. And by no means am I saying that sex is ALL men are.

 

It's part of understanding the other gender better.

[TMCM]

I is pretty pathetic that sex is such a big component that they can't appreciate what is there for them otherwise. Sex is a part of the marriage relationship. Some men say they have affairs because of the lack of sex. Others say they have affairs because of the lack of intamacy(emotional connection) and still others say they aren't physically attracted to their spouses. It is a sad fact that some males call themselves men, when in fact they don't have a clue what it is to be a man.

 

And until they decide to put God first, they will always put the superficiall first.

 

Let's play the paraphrasing game.

 

It is pretty pathetic that affection is such a big component that they can't appreciate what is there for them otherwise. Affection is a part of the marriage relationship. Some women say they have affairs because of the lack of affection. Others say they have affairs because of the lack of passion (sexual connection) and still others say they aren't emotionally attracted to their spouses. it is a sad fact that some females call themselves women, when in fact they don't have a clue what it is to be a woman.

 

And until they decide to put God first, they will always put the superficial first.

 

Edited February 28, 2008 by TMCM

[Tomcat33]

I completely agree. But since I was married to a man, I typically go from that point of view.

 

 

You missed the point TMCM was trying to make, COMPLETELY.

[Owl]

I will say there has been a positive for me on my PA. That upset my wife a great deal but she also came to realize that she had completely shut me out of her life, gained tons of weight, and moved out the bedroom and sleeps in another bedroom every night.

 

 

Would you say that you're glad you had the affair?

 

Would your wife say that SHE's glad you had the affair?

 

Do the positives outweigh the negatives...for BOTH of you?

 

I'm still interested in an answer to this question. I've heard many people tout the positives of having an affair. I've heard people say that they felt that the affair was "good for the marriage". And I don't get it.

 

I will say that my wife's affair led to positive changes in our relationship and marriage.

 

I won't say that I feel that the hurt/suffering/devestation that this put me and our kids through was worth it. I don't feel that it was a GOOD thing...it was a horrible thing that we used to make things better.

[Tomcat33]

Enlighten me, my brain is foggy from midterms.

 

 

Oh no... now you have me doubting things... (Midterms? that's great BNB!! what are you taking again?)

 

I think, if I am not mistaken, what TMCM was trying to say is that women use lack of affection as an excuse to complain about the wanton abandon their partners have when it comes to showing them affection. Ultimately meaning that to women, affection is AS important as sex is to men. Without affection most women would not want to stay in a relationship because we crave affection, it is fundemantal and extremely necessary to our existence. So sex for men plays the same role.

 

Example:

 

If you were in a marriage that lacked affection but as you say, you were close to god, would it be sufficient to carry you through until the end of your days next to someone who has and shows no affection for you? Even if they did other things for you, can you substitute his other actions for his lack of affection towards you?

[Scrivdog]

The problem is that many women I think see marriage as a binding contract that no longer requires them to be nice to their husbands. If they seek love and affection from someone else after being dened such from their wives - the first thing they will point to is that they broke their "vows".

 

I see that on this board all the time. It's pathetic. No acknowledgement is given to the husband because the traditional marriage vows really make no specific mention about intimacy (nor should it).

 

But I don't think it's too hard to understand that if a woman checks out the marriage through neglect of her husband, then the only thing keeping the "marriage" together is the constraints of city hall, not a willingness to stay.

[Tomcat33]

Bottom line!

 

But I don't think it's too hard to understand that if a woman checks out the marriage through neglect of her husband, then the only thing keeping the "marriage" together is the constraints of city hall, not a willingness to stay.

 

 

And it is INDEED checking out. It's neglect.

[Mustang Sally]

The problem is that many women I think see marriage as a binding contract that no longer requires them to be nice to their husbands. If they seek love and affection from someone else after being dened such from their wives - the first thing they will point to is that they broke their "vows".

I think that both partners, in the case you describe, broke vows. The withholding spouse broke a vow by withholding/neglect. The wayward spouse broke a vow by seeking 'it' elsewhere.

 

What I can't understand is why - to some - it becomes acceptable for the WS to break vows in this type of situation simply because the other spouse broke vows first.

What kind of morality allows for that?

How can you really believe (and I mean REALLY BELIEVE - deep down) that this sort of Hammurabian approach is acceptable and appropriate for a responsible, grown adult in an adult relationship?

 

Or is it more a case of acceptance of what is perceived to be the lessor of the available evils?

 

 

I see that on this board all the time. It's pathetic. No acknowledgement is given to the husband because the traditional marriage vows really make no specific mention about intimacy (nor should it).

I have to disagree with you that there is "no acknowledgement" on these boards that withholding and neglect of a spouse (we will assume the H, in this discussion) is inappropriate and unacceptable. I see it all the time that folks here find that sort of behaviour by a spouse (we will assume the W, for the sake of this argument) unacceptable and inappropriate.

 

What I DON'T see (at least not validated by the overwhelming majority) is the validation of a WS for the act of CHEATING because of being in a "sexless marriage." I think the conventional wisdom on LS is that cheating - no matter what "caused" a married person to do it - is NOT AN ACCEPTABLE SOLUTION TO MARITAL PROBLEMS.

 

Again. As I said above, I agree that in the case you describe, the "wife" has broken vows as well.

 

And again. I implore you. Why might this have occurred on her part? Is there any sort of reason (potentially - but not exclusively - related to the husband or the state of the marriage in the first place)? Or is she merely a frigid bitch?

 

BOTH partners (especially the one who is withholding) are mandated to find the answer to why the withholding is occurring. And then that needs to be dealt with.

[Cobra_X30]

What I can't understand is why - to some - it becomes acceptable for the WS to break vows in this type of situation simply because the other spouse broke vows first.

What kind of morality allows for that?

How can you really believe (and I mean REALLY BELIEVE - deep down) that this sort of Hammurabian approach is acceptable and appropriate for a responsible, grown adult in an adult relationship?

 

Or is it more a case of acceptance of what is perceived to be the lessor of the available evils?

 

I think alot of people tend to view marriage in terms of a business contract. When someone begins breaking vows it tends to make the other feel as though the contract is now null and void.

 

I think we can all agree that we are responsible for our own actions. Despite reasons or excuses we know right from wrong.

[twice_shy]

Well Stated Tomcat.

 

I have always failed to see how someone neglecting their physical appearance for themselves and their partner is any different than any other form of neglect.

 

And yes love is CONDITIONAL regardless of what people think.

 

How many of you would hoenstly love your spouse if they a) cheated on you nightly, b) gained 200 lbs, 3) starting smoking crack nightly, etc. Anyone could find a line to where they would no longer love their partner.

 

Love is conditional.

 

The only one that pertains to your situation is b. if she cheated on you, then it really isn't love and cheating is unforgivable in my book.

 

If they smoke crack, which is not only illegal but can kill you, then its absurd to say one should stay with a drug addict.

 

So gaining weight pertains to your sitch. So has your wife gained 200 pounds? If so, then do what you will. Cheat and explain it away. You have justified it and your guilt, if any, should be appeased.

[twice_shy]

The harsh reality is a lot of men don't feel the same way.

 

Too true, and that is sad.

 

So the wives of "men" like this should divorce them and take 1/2 with them.

[Mustang Sally]

I think alot of people tend to view marriage in terms of a business contract. When someone begins breaking vows it tends to make the other feel as though the contract is now null and void.

 

I think we can all agree that we are responsible for our own actions. Despite reasons or excuses we know right from wrong.

Yes, well, even I feel that at certain points, marriage may become little more than a business arrangement.

 

But I guess I don't feel that just because one might merely be involved in a "business arrangement" that person is now absolved of behaving in a responsible and respectable manner.

[Tomcat33]

I think alot of people tend to view marriage in terms of a business contract. When someone begins breaking vows it tends to make the other feel as though the contract is now null and void.

 

I think we can all agree that we are responsible for our own actions. Despite reasons or excuses we know right from wrong.

 

 

 

Good points!

 

Out of curiosity, when a person witholds sex from their partner, is generally not interested in that part of the relationship, is preoccupied with anything BUT that, expects their partner to overlook that aspect via seeing other compensations of other things instead, can't seem to run out of excuses to avoid having sex, lets themselves go physically and is sexually reclusive would this be considered right or wrong?

 

Also, if one can so carelessly break their side of the "contract" with excuses and claim that what they are doing should be understood do they have the right to expect from their partners, the same level of commitment towards this contract?

[Cobra_X30]

Yes, well, even I feel that at certain points, marriage may become little more than a business arrangement.

 

But I guess I don't feel that just because one might merely be involved in a "business arrangement" that person is now absolved of behaving in a responsible and respectable manner.

 

Well, that is because your a responsible person. You understand that simply because another person fails.... does not mean you have to as well.

 

Good points!

 

Out of curiosity, when a person witholds sex from their partner, is generally not interested in that part of the relationship, is preoccupied with anything BUT that, expects their partner to overlook that aspect via seeing other compensations of other things instead, can't seem to run out of excuses to avoid having sex, lets themselves go physically and is sexually reclusive would this be considered right or wrong?

 

Also, if one can so carelessly break their side of the "contract" with excuses and claim that what they are doing should be understood do they have the right to expect from their partners, the same level of commitment towards this contract?

 

That is a huge question TC!

 

In my personal opinion... when we make solemn vows we are each held to that regardless of the actions of others. Let's be honest, when people get married, they exchange vows without clauses. There is no "I will love you, if you cherish me." Does that make sense?

 

Now, in regards to the responsibility of the BS. They can't force faithfullness onto thier spouses, however they can make staying faithful easier or harder depending on their actions.

 

Most of us are not giant bedrocks of moral granite. We tend to be very conditional and situational. Most of us fail when things get really tough. So, we need to make choices that don't unessesarily burden our partners. Are we ultimatley responsible for their actions? No. However, our actions or inactions do affect them, and it's total foolishness to think otherwise.

 

With all that said... I really don't believe that most people cheat because someone wasn't meeting thier needs. So, I think Scriv and others like him are not the majority.