lovelorcet Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Ummm, yeah, the "God" o f the old testament is angry, vengeful and oddly very humanlike.... hmmm. I wonder why gods in every single religion have human characteristics... Is it perhaps because it is the humans doing the imaginining and writing? So, in regard to the other side of things.... If I don't believe in god, and I die after living a truthful, happy life- am I destined to go to hell? Of course it is very human like because humans have made it up as they go, but I think you know that . And yes according to them you will be going to hell. But honestly there are way more interesting people going to hell then to heaven so you are in good company. We can share a drink in lava pool number 6, I think TBF will be there as well Link to post Share on other sites
Lovelybird Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 (edited) 1 John 2: 3 Now by this we may be sure that we know him, if we obey his commandments. 2:4 Whoever says, "I have come to know him, " but does not obey his commandments, is a liar, and in such a person the truth does not exist; but whoever obeys his word, truly in this person the love of God has reached perfection.....whoever says, "I abide in him," ought to walk just as he walked Roman 13:9 ....and any other commandment, are summed up in this word, "love your neighbor as yourself." 13:10 ....therefore love is the fulfilling of the law all commandments are expression of love: such as adultery, if you love your neightbor, you will not commit adultery with neighbor's wife. "sum up" didn't mean you can throw away the commandments. But the approach of only aiming at obey commandment (religion) is very different from the approach of faith in Jesus Christ. The later is forming a relationship with God, through power of Holy Spirit we are transformed to new creatures, we have new heart, and through the love that Holy Spirit pour into our heart, we want to obey those commandments, and obediance yield good fruits in our lives. the former approach yield pride or frustration of failure to obey, and hardly have relationship with God Edited February 25, 2008 by Lovelybird Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 (edited) D-Lish, According to Christians, you are. But I don't buy it. Unsurprisingly.... The immaculate Conception is is a human concept and invention. The Virgin Mary is a human concept and invention. Jesus Christ as God incarnate, is a human concept and invention. Heaven is a human concept and invention. Hell is a human concept and invention. Reincarnation was once an accepted premise in Christianity. But God had to have his retribution and reward system. so that was done away with, and replace dwith hell and Heaven.... http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/rein/reincarnationtitles2.htm Reincarnation for the Christian. Reincarnation in Christianity. Edited February 25, 2008 by Geishawhelk Link to post Share on other sites
Lovelybird Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 anyway, it is very difficult to resist our selfish and self centred tendency if without help and supernature power of God. and our selfishness is the cause of 'purgatory' here on earth Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 No, I actually find it easy to resist selfish tendencies. it's called self-discipline. And I don't believe in God, so I must be doing it on my own. You need a certain amount of 'self-centredness' in order to survive, otherwise you'd simply be a doormat. Self-centredness is not necessarily a bad thing. If you see to your self, and Unconditionally practise Compassion, Loving Kindness, Equanimity and Joy, starting with yourself, you will find it easier to do so unconditionally for others. This makes you no more than they are. but it makes you no less, either. Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I guess every person will explain it in many different ways. Most of human motives are self serving and selfish, for this alone none of us can be called 'good' Not all human motives are self- serving and selfish. You can be a good person and not believe in god, and you can be a bad one and believe. The God of the old testament is a jealous, childish and absolutely brutal god. I would hope that the average human has enough brains to see this. Oh, I do. .. If I don't believe in god, and I die after living a truthful, happy life- am I destined to go to hell? No, because if you don't believe in god then you don't believe in hell. You become worm food. But honestly there are way more interesting people going to hell then to heaven so you are in good company. We can share a drink in lava pool number 6, I think TBF will be there as well And me. Make mine a double. Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 anyway, it is very difficult to resist our selfish and self centred tendency if without help and supernature power of God. and our selfishness is the cause of 'purgatory' here on earth As Geishawhelk said- its actually quite easy to resist selfish tendencies without a god in your life. Ask most people with children. Ask people who help others for a living, ask people who love their families and friends and partners. I am in a R- I can't have my own way all the time and neither can my partner. Neither of us believe in god, yet we can easily resist selfish tendencies because we love eachother and want our life together to be happy. If thats purgatory on earth, then bring it on, its not bad so far! Link to post Share on other sites
lovelorcet Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 anyway, it is very difficult to resist our selfish and self centred tendency if without help and supernature power of God. Actually no it's not, I am not sure what kinds of inner urges you have to keep in line by the use of a "supernature power of god" but I would think it is more effective to just become a responsible, mature adult. Link to post Share on other sites
Space Marine Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Well that's just it. Being a good person doesn't matter in your world because if you repent as you die.... you are covered. It's like an awesome Christian Insurance policy that you don't have to even buy into until the very end. The idea of good is pretty much covered via LAW and Morality. There are basic tenants that form a pretty solid guideline. Granted- always debatable. So.... I live my life as a killer, rapist, liar .... am I going to meet you in Heaven because I apologize before I die? Does that make sense? This is one major reason I disrespect historical figures like Al Capone. It's incredibly annoying to think someone so against peace and love would be forgiven simply by going to church once a week and washing the caked blood from his hands from the 6 days prior, consisting of cold blooded murder and thus taking God's commandments lightly. Do the people he killed get a last chance to repent? Christianity is full of holes. Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 He wasn't forgiven. That was his main gripe about his Catholic proiest. incidentally, tax evasion is now a Cardinal Sin, as declared by Pope Paul VI precisely because of the mafia habit of doing this.... Sofia Loren and Valentino Rossi the motorbike rider are both cardinal Sinners, because of this.... Link to post Share on other sites
Love Hurts Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Purgatory is a myth. It proclaims we can pray for a lost soul and that that soul would be saved. Or that that soul can do penance while in purgatory and move onward… It’s a myth. Luke 16 tells us ; Luke 16: And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us that would come from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, *neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. Do you have to be one that if someone came back from the dead to warn you… you still would not hear truth? *Beyond death we have an appointment … heaven or hell. Also we can reflect on the two thieves on the cross in Luke 23: 42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. *****An appointment today…. Immediately after death Haven or Hell. We can’t pray for the dead, we are all responsible for our own sins. Life is the test… And when it’s over we go to our destination as we chose. Link to post Share on other sites
directx Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 This is one major reason I disrespect historical figures like Al Capone. It's incredibly annoying to think someone so against peace and love would be forgiven simply by going to church once a week and washing the caked blood from his hands from the 6 days prior, consisting of cold blooded murder and thus taking God's commandments lightly. Do the people he killed get a last chance to repent? Christianity is full of holes. Yeah, that's kind of the same feeling I had about Darth Vader. I mean, come on, he destroyed an ENTIRE PLANET at one time, yet he gets forgiven by the Force and gets to join Obi and Yoda? Forgiveness sucks... Link to post Share on other sites
Space Marine Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Darth Vader finds your lack of faith disturbing. Link to post Share on other sites
directx Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Darth Vader finds your lack of faith disturbing. Darth Vader is a goody two shoes now, so he can kiss off... Link to post Share on other sites
D-Lish Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 If anyone deserves to go to Valhalla- it's Yoda. That Dude has standards that I aspire to live by. Luke had naughty thoughts about his sister though... I don't know where that leaves him in the end. Link to post Share on other sites
directx Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 If anyone deserves to go to Valhalla- it's Yoda. That Dude has standards that I aspire to live by. Luke had naughty thoughts about his sister though... I don't know where that leaves him in the end. Yoda is lazy AND a liar! First, he is lazy because he is supposedly so old and smart, yet he still cannot speak English properly! Learn the language already Yoda! Second, he is a liar because he told Luke 'Size matters not!' when he is lifting the X-wing out the swamp, yet in Episode II, he has trouble defending against a large boulder because it's so big! Yoda, I'm on to you... Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 If anyone deserves to go to Valhalla- it's Yoda. That Dude has standards that I aspire to live by. Luke had naughty thoughts about his sister though... I don't know where that leaves him in the end. Yuh, but, that was before he knew she was his sister..... And directx, it's all relative... everything has its limits... even the strongest and most powerful person in the universe will one day find a limitation to their power.... My partner, is strong, powerful and indefaitigable. He is Valiant and heroic. He is noble and of great strength. Ask him to clear the doggy-doo in the garden though, and he goes weak at the knees......! (He also has a great deal of problems getting his back off the bed, in the mornings.... ) Link to post Share on other sites
ahoydave Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Umm..... yeah, what a perfect religion to embrace. I shall live my life like Constantine... I shall kill, rape, pillage and live a life of evil.... but on my death bed I will just accept Jesus into my life and go to Heaven. That is true - sounds unfair, doesn't it. Well it is. How can that bad person get away with what he has done. The real question is how can any of us get away with what we have done. Would this same god of yours condemn innocent people who don't believe in him, yet live an honorable life? The bible is clear (in Romans for instance) that God does NOT condemn or punish people who are innocent - people who only do good. The thing is that it is also clear on is that there is no-one who persists in doing good, no-one who obeys God. God punishes people who deserve punishment. Just because I may be better than some other guy does not mean that I am in any way less deserving of punishment. The real 'unfairness' comes in where God punishes His Son instead of some of us. What is there to motivate people to be good people if all they need to do is repent on their deathbed and have all their evil doings erased? The reason that Jesus came and died for us is not so that we would be motivated to do good, it was to save us from being destroyed. There is motivation though - it is what God wants and we are grateful to Him for saving us. Has anyone ever explored the idea of being a good person just for the sake of being a good person? And not doing so because they are afraid of going to hell? Without God there doesn't seem to be any rational reason at all to do good except maybe because it will benefit me. All that is left is me and what is good for me. I would even then ask, why do other people matter at all? Geez... that is why I ran screaming from the church at a very young age. The Hypocrisy, the inconsistencies, the blind leading the blind, people making up their own rules to suit their own needs. Even as a child under the age of ten being forced to go to church, I never bought into any of that. I am definitely not saying that the Church does a good job of being Christians. I am really sorry for the experiences that many people have of people claiming to be followers of Christ. However, should we really judge Christianity on the performance of its sinful adherents - they should happily admit that they are far from perfect (otherwise why would they need to be christians?!) Have you had another look at what Christianity actually is now that you are older. I know I had a similar view to you until I went and took another look some years later. I was quite surprised by what I found. Link to post Share on other sites
ahoydave Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Whoops, sorry peeps. I thought there was only one page of replies So I guess that one is a little late in the conversation. Link to post Share on other sites
Space Marine Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Hey, it's fine with me. We were talking about Star Wars characters until you jolted the thread back on topic anyway. lol Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 First, he is lazy because he is supposedly so old and smart, yet he still cannot speak English properly! Learn the language already Yoda! Also, I don't think this criticism is valid... you learn "Yodish" as well as he can speak English. Then you can criticise him.... Oh, dang... are we back on-topic.....? (sorry....!) Link to post Share on other sites
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