blind_otter Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I was wondering this over the weekend. Say you have a rather rocky marriage. Then one partner goes and has an affair. Then the couple reconciles and tries to make things work together. Does the affair discount any previous problems in the relationship? Link to post Share on other sites
jj2007 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Does the affair discount any previous problems in the relationship? Nope. For a couple to be able to rebuild a marriage after a affair, they both have to work on the problems that got them where they are now. And work through the feelings of the affair too. Link to post Share on other sites
angie2443 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I was wondering this over the weekend. Say you have a rather rocky marriage. Then one partner goes and has an affair. Then the couple reconciles and tries to make things work together. Does the affair discount any previous problems in the relationship? Why would it? If both people in the marriage want the marriage to work, then all problems in the relationship need to be dealt with. Link to post Share on other sites
silktricks Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Does the affair discount any previous problems in the relationship? Of course not. If the marriage is going to work, then ALL problems need to be dealt with. Link to post Share on other sites
Author blind_otter Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 What if the injured party refuses to acknowledge what they did to contribute to the downfall of the marriage? Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra_X30 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I was wondering this over the weekend. Say you have a rather rocky marriage. Then one partner goes and has an affair. Then the couple reconciles and tries to make things work together. Does the affair discount any previous problems in the relationship? That's a matter of perception honestly. From what I've seen the WS often mentally devalues the relationship, then when faced with potentially losing, it regains all of that lost value, often plus some. Once the relationship is again secure... some begin the process again devaluing it... some don't. In terms of the BS, some use the A as a mandate to control and punish. Some don't. So, are you in need of a trump card? Link to post Share on other sites
ThumbingMyWay Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Does the affair discount any previous problems in the relationship? No but it sure doesnt help matters. From my POV, male BS. I wasnt feeling the best in the M either. I felt neglected too. I wasnt happy either. But I didnt go screw some one else becuase i wasnt getting my needs met. BUT I did acknowledge what I WAS doing wrong leading up to W's affair. And I took responsibilty for my part in the breakdown of the marriage prior to A. BUT in no way did I condone her CHOICE to have the affair due to my neglegents. If anything, a marriage reconciled after one partner had an affair is more like a "trump" card for the BS to use. could be years down the road and in the heat of an arguement, it can be played "well at least I didnt have an affair". The BS will always have that card to play to use in times of frustration. I know I played it alot early on in recovery. Was my "goto" when I was backed in a corner. She didnt like it and still doesnt. I dont do it anymore, in fact my wife is the one that brings it up and still feels guilt over it. Her remorse is ongoing to this day (3.5 years since dday lie, 3 years since dday truth). wow...3 years on March 1st, 2008 and it still occupies our minds Link to post Share on other sites
Author blind_otter Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 So, are you in need of a trump card? Nah, this is a question relating to a friend of mine and her H and their attempt to reconcile. He sent her a pretty crazy sounds email demanding that she do what he says in all things because she had an affair. While cheating is bad -- very bad -- you can't really say "let's work on our R" and then hold that affair over your spouses head for all eternity. Link to post Share on other sites
ThumbingMyWay Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 What if the injured party refuses to acknowledge what they did to contribute to the downfall of the marriage? then IMO, the marrige will never be repaired. From a BS POV. This was very difficult to grasp. Its the denial stage...and some never get out of it. Now, I was pissed and there was no way I was going to admit that it was my fault she had the affair. but after counseling, I could see that my actions prior to A contributed to my wife CHOOSING to have an A. But It wasnt my fault directly. if that makes sence. Was one of the hardest things to accept. Link to post Share on other sites
LakesideDream Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Nah, this is a question relating to a friend of mine and her H and their attempt to reconcile. He sent her a pretty crazy sounds email demanding that she do what he says in all things because she had an affair. While cheating is bad -- very bad -- you can't really say "let's work on our R" and then hold that affair over your spouses head for all eternity. Otter, how can you type tripe like that? In my 57 years I have never known a woman who didn't keep a "book of wrongs" in her head. Whenever it suits them, especially during an argument they will bring up previous slights, insults or other behavior to bolster their position. It could of happened last week, month, year, decade, or century ago, it's still right there ready for use. I'm not talking just about infidelity either. It can be things far less serious. An insult, getting drunk at a party, badly chosen words,.. almost anything. Be sure if you say it, or do it, she'll remember it. I can remember being accused of "flirting" with a girl before I was even married.... I heard about that in the form of an excuse for her long term infidelity when she was finally caught.... 25 years later. Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra_X30 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Nah, this is a question relating to a friend of mine and her H and their attempt to reconcile. He sent her a pretty crazy sounds email demanding that she do what he says in all things because she had an affair. While cheating is bad -- very bad -- you can't really say "let's work on our R" and then hold that affair over your spouses head for all eternity. I completely agree! However, you can't really do that to someone and expect them to just shut up and get over it. You have to give them some time. If the guy was controlling before, she needs to jet! Otherwise, my money says he is just trying to deal with the unfairness of the situation. As I said earlier... some get that urge to punish, either with guilt or control or whatever. My friend uses it as a get laid free card. I'm not sure if he is just the revenge type, or it's something he always wanted and just has an excuse now. He is 3 affairs deep now... I hope he finds someone he can dump his W for, they both need peace. Link to post Share on other sites
Author blind_otter Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 Otter, how can you type tripe like that? In my 57 years I have never known a woman who didn't keep a "book of wrongs" in her head. Whenever it suits them, especially during an argument they will bring up previous slights, insults or other behavior to bolster their position. It could of happened last week, month, year, decade, or century ago, it's still right there ready for use. I'm not talking just about infidelity either. It can be things far less serious. An insult, getting drunk at a party, badly chosen words,.. almost anything. Be sure if you say it, or do it, she'll remember it. I can remember being accused of "flirting" with a girl before I was even married.... I heard about that in the form of an excuse for her long term infidelity when she was finally caught.... 25 years later. Maybe some people do this. Not all. Personally I think it's really unhealthy to bring up old **** from the far past. Link to post Share on other sites
ThumbingMyWay Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 While cheating is bad -- very bad -- you can't really say "let's work on our R" and then hold that affair over your spouses head for all eternity. No you cant. It doesnt work. BOTH parties need to MOVE forward....time does heal, it just takes time Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 to truly forgive is to let go of all that hurt when you attempt to reconcile a relationship – one of my priests liked it to taking that hurtful deed and tossing it into a vast, deep ocean, then not allowing yourself to go fishing for it. I guess your friend's husband needs to really ask himself what's more important: The relationship with his wife, or holding her sins against her, understanding that it has the potential to completely destroy the marriage? I don't imagine an affair is an easy thing to forgive, because it erodes trust, but I think when a couple puts their mind to healing the problems in their marriage, true forgiveness has a chance to grow ... Link to post Share on other sites
Author blind_otter Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 I don't think he sees anything wrong with his demands, at all. And it's weird and slightly disturbing, TBH. For example he demands that she NOT go to IC. He says she is only allowed to go to therapy if he is present. That seems really controlling to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Jess-Belle Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Maybe some people do this. Not all. Personally I think it's really unhealthy to bring up old **** from the far past. Too true. Personally I think it's an immature thing to do. Also in total agreement with what you said about holding something over someone's head forever, essentially stalling out true reconciliation. Actually it's what I'm going through right now. My bf, who devastated me with an A, is still so angry that he was my "OM" at the beginning of our relationship that it's preventing him (whether intentionally or not) from putting 100% effort into the reconciliation process. I've tried telling him that all this is accomplishing is immobilizing him and our relationship. I may still be deeply hurt by what he did, and my trust may still be halfway in shambles, but truth be told, I am no longer angry at him. For what? I decided I want to stay with him and try to reconcile. What would be the point of me continuing to rage and lash out against him? Link to post Share on other sites
jj2007 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 What if the injured party refuses to acknowledge what they did to contribute to the downfall of the marriage? Then, IMO the marriage will not be repaired. It takes two to rebuild. Both parties have to be willing to work through the problems that got their marriage in such a sour state to begin with. Link to post Share on other sites
silktricks Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 The thing is - there are two people in a marriage - both of those people need to apply serious effort for the marriage to be successful. If one person cheats it is often due to problems within the marriage (not always, because some people will cheat no matter what). If there are problems in the marriage, both people contributed to those problems. As TMW said, the BS has contributed to the problems and needs to take ownership of their contribution to the difficulties. The BS did not cause the partner to cheat - that was the WS choice. But if the marriage is going to survive the BS must own up to their part in the problems. They also must eventually get to the point where bad stuff isn't brought up anymore. I'd also like to point out to blind_otter that both men and women play the game of "what you did eons ago" during times of anger, or used as reasons for their own bad behavior. My H was a master of the game, while I was a but a fledgling. Link to post Share on other sites
Darth Vader Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 No but it sure doesnt help matters. From my POV, male BS. I wasnt feeling the best in the M either. I felt neglected too. I wasnt happy either. But I didnt go screw some one else becuase i wasnt getting my needs met. BUT I did acknowledge what I WAS doing wrong leading up to W's affair. And I took responsibilty for my part in the breakdown of the marriage prior to A. BUT in no way did I condone her CHOICE to have the affair due to my neglegents. If anything, a marriage reconciled after one partner had an affair is more like a "trump" card for the BS to use. could be years down the road and in the heat of an arguement, it can be played "well at least I didnt have an affair". The BS will always have that card to play to use in times of frustration. I know I played it alot early on in recovery. Was my "goto" when I was backed in a corner. She didnt like it and still doesnt. I dont do it anymore, in fact my wife is the one that brings it up and still feels guilt over it. Her remorse is ongoing to this day (3.5 years since dday lie, 3 years since dday truth). wow...3 years on March 1st, 2008 and it still occupies our minds Well, it should bother her. Considering all the crap she put you through, just MO though. Link to post Share on other sites
Darth Vader Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 then IMO, the marrige will never be repaired. From a BS POV. This was very difficult to grasp. Its the denial stage...and some never get out of it. Now, I was pissed and there was no way I was going to admit that it was my fault she had the affair. but after counseling, I could see that my actions prior to A contributed to my wife CHOOSING to have an A. But It wasnt my fault directly. if that makes sence. Was one of the hardest things to accept. However, she did things to neglect you, and you didn't cheat. Yet you get flack? Almost like a double standard if you ask me. Link to post Share on other sites
Darth Vader Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I completely agree! However, you can't really do that to someone and expect them to just shut up and get over it. You have to give them some time. If the guy was controlling before, she needs to jet! Otherwise, my money says he is just trying to deal with the unfairness of the situation. As I said earlier... some get that urge to punish, either with guilt or control or whatever. My friend uses it as a get laid free card. I'm not sure if he is just the revenge type, or it's something he always wanted and just has an excuse now. He is 3 affairs deep now... I hope he finds someone he can dump his W for, they both need peace. His wife had 3 affairs, and he's still with her? 1 makes most throw the other out, he must have some serious control, rage, or whatever hanging over her. Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 then IMO, the marrige will never be repaired. From a BS POV. This was very difficult to grasp. Its the denial stage...and some never get out of it. Now, I was pissed and there was no way I was going to admit that it was my fault she had the affair. but after counseling, I could see that my actions prior to A contributed to my wife CHOOSING to have an A. But It wasnt my fault directly. if that makes sence. Was one of the hardest things to accept. I agree, and it does make sense. I've always said that I take my full share of responsibility for the state of our marriage leading up to my wife's affair, but the choice to go outside was hers alone. I think there's a fine line between "bringing up old transgressions" out of the mental memory book, in terms of individual gripes about wiping off the counter after doing dishes, who insulted who on a particular occasion, etc... and working through issues that have contributed (both positively and negatively) to the dynamic in a marriage. I don't think that it is helpful to bitch and moan about individual events that happened in the past, when they are used as ammunition, or in some kind of attempt to settle the score or control the other party, in either direction. However, you can't truly say "the past is past," and close the door, especially when trying to recover from an affair. I don't think you can experience an effective recovery process without some review and working through issues and dynamics in the marriage that preceeded the affair. In my case, I think our slamming that door, closing off any consideration of our past and failing to recognize and work through issues that had been a part of our marriage - all with the best of intentions to "move forward" - caused us to repeat those patterns that ultimately brought our marriage to an end. So I think there is a difference between that kind of hostile, controlling rehash of past transgressions, when those are used as bludgeons against each other, versus engaging in the joint venture of healing and reconciliation, which I think can usefully address past dynamics and issues so that "moving forward" can be done with the hope of leaving behind dysfunctional patterns. Link to post Share on other sites
Darth Vader Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I don't think he sees anything wrong with his demands, at all. And it's weird and slightly disturbing, TBH. For example he demands that she NOT go to IC. He says she is only allowed to go to therapy if he is present. That seems really controlling to me. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but, it may be he thinks that there may be more to be revealed, like more affairs. I'm sure he knows that a counselor can't reveal anything said to anyone else including to her husband without a breach of the law. Link to post Share on other sites
Blue Eyed Brain Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 In most states, no. If the other partner accepted the cheating partner back, then it is null and void. If the marriage devolves over infidelity, then it matters. Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra_X30 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 His wife had 3 affairs, and he's still with her? 1 makes most throw the other out, he must have some serious control, rage, or whatever hanging over her. Actually its the other way around. He's had 3 affairs since. His attitude is that she started it, now he gets to do what he wants. Dunno, I'm not sure when he will get over it. So I think there is a difference between that kind of hostile, controlling rehash of past transgressions, when those are used as bludgeons against each other, versus engaging in the joint venture of healing and reconciliation, which I think can usefully address past dynamics and issues so that "moving forward" can be done with the hope of leaving behind dysfunctional patterns. How can you tell the difference? When you choose to have an affair and then try and reconcile... you choose to give up some rights... IMO. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts