Affair = trump card?

[Trimmer]

How can you tell the difference?

Honestly, man, I don't know, I just believe that the difference exists. I didn't have the opportunity to experience it in my own marriage, but I wish we had taken the opportunity, after my wife's first affair, to really do an honest review, together (maybe with a MC?) of what was happening in our marriage. It would have been difficult work for both of us, but I think there's a difference between that and just beating on each other with perceived transgressions. It's the difference between working in good faith toward the future and beating the marriage into the ground.

 

When you choose to have an affair and then try and reconcile... you choose to give up some rights... IMO.

Yes, but forever?

 

If you are working back to reconciliation, then I think the WS may give up some rights in the short term, but I think that to really achieve reconciliation, the BS needs to eventually give us his/her resentment in the long term. Some might call that forgiveness. And perhaps that's why true, lasting reconciliation is not universally common. I know - I know how hard it is to forgive, I know how hard it is to truly release the resentment. But I also know that there would be no hope of reconciliation without it.

 

Perhaps it seems unfair that the BS has to work so hard to recover the marriage (although not alone - I think the WS needs to put in that much and more...) and again, maybe that's why reconciliation is so difficult. But the whole "affair is a trump card," you-have-no-rights, I'm in control here thing isn't a marriage, it's a power imbalance. For it to be a marriage again, both parties have to work back to the center, and it's not an easy journey for either one.

[OpenBook]

I was wondering this over the weekend.

 

Say you have a rather rocky marriage. Then one partner goes and has an affair. Then the couple reconciles and tries to make things work together.

 

Does the affair discount any previous problems in the relationship?

 

I think the A transcends any previous problems in the relationship. Totally eclipses them, in fact. Something pure and sacred is lost forever, and there's no getting it back.

 

to truly forgive is to let go of all that hurt when you attempt to reconcile a relationship... I don't imagine an affair is an easy thing to forgive, because it erodes trust, but I think when a couple puts their mind to healing the problems in their marriage, true forgiveness has a chance to grow ...

 

Is it possible, though, to completely forgive someone when you can no longer trust them 100% ever again?

[Trimmer]

Is it possible, though, to completely forgive someone when you can no longer trust them 100% ever again?

That's a good, and very poignant question.

 

In my Pollyanna world, as where I described reconciliation above, I imagine the possibility of fogiveness, moving forward, and truly releasing that resentment.

 

But in reality, in my new era of innocence lost, I also question whether that is really possible. I'm still working back toward the bizarre idea of trusting anyone 100% again, let alone the one who betrayed me...

[norajane]

I don't think he sees anything wrong with his demands, at all. And it's weird and slightly disturbing, TBH.

 

For example he demands that she NOT go to IC. He says she is only allowed to go to therapy if he is present. That seems really controlling to me.

 

How recently did he find out about the affair? And has she come clean to him with all the truth, or is she holding back? Does he have reason to believe she might still be lying about some things or hiding some things? That may be why he wants to be present when she talks to a counselor.

 

If he just recently found out about the affair, then I think he gets a pass for his immediate reactions. At this point, he can't fathom how he's going to swallow the betrayal and all the lies and crap that went along with it. The last thing he's going to be thinking about is what HE needs to do - it's perfectly understandable that his thinking is focused on what he needs HER to do to help him get over the cheating.

 

Given time, and the opportunity to choke down the bitter pill, he may be in a place where he can consider his part in the break-down of the marriage prior to the affair. But if it's recent, come on. You can't expect him to kiss her ass now.

[OpenBook]

In my Pollyanna world, as where I described reconciliation above, I imagine the possibility of fogiveness, moving forward, and truly releasing that resentment.

 

But in reality, in my new era of innocence lost, I also question whether that is really possible. I'm still working back toward the bizarre idea of trusting anyone 100% again, let alone the one who betrayed me...

 

I hear ya Trimmer. I just hope you don't assume the rest of the female population is like your ex. You would be wasting so much time. I spent the entire duration of my relationship with my exH trying to convince him I wasn't like his mother, or his exGF. It didn't work, in the end. (He finally realized it, but by then it was too late for us.) And I'm sure it took his current W a looooooooong time to convince him she wasn't like me!!

[Cobra_X30]

Honestly, man, I don't know, I just believe that the difference exists. I didn't have the opportunity to experience it in my own marriage, but I wish we had taken the opportunity, after my wife's first affair, to really do an honest review, together (maybe with a MC?) of what was happening in our marriage. It would have been difficult work for both of us, but I think there's a difference between that and just beating on each other with perceived transgressions. It's the difference between working in good faith toward the future and beating the marriage into the ground.

 

I think your right, it has to do with intent... which is only something the BS will know themselves.

 

Well, I'm a big picture kind of person... because people who focus too hard on the details often get lost. So, what you really needed to ask yourself post A #1, was "what kind of person is my wife?"

 

Yes, but forever?

If you are working back to reconciliation, then I think the WS may give up some rights in the short term, but I think that to really achieve reconciliation, the BS needs to eventually give us his/her resentment in the long term. Some might call that forgiveness. And perhaps that's why true, lasting reconciliation is not universally common. I know - I know how hard it is to forgive, I know how hard it is to truly release the resentment. But I also know that there would be no hope of reconciliation without it.

Perhaps it seems unfair that the BS has to work so hard to recover the marriage (although not alone - I think the WS needs to put in that much and more...) and again, maybe that's why reconciliation is so difficult. But the whole "affair is a trump card," you-have-no-rights, I'm in control here thing isn't a marriage, it's a power imbalance. For it to be a marriage again, both parties have to work back to the center, and it's not an easy journey for either one.

 

Yes forever! Or until the WS builds a time machine and changes the absolute finality of their actions. If there is love within the relationship... then it wont be forever... it will be just until the BS can move on. But as a WS you have to be willing to do it forever, because thats how long the results of your actions last.

 

The affair itself is a power imbalance. Yes, it's going to be a very natural response to want to regain that lost self worth and power with control.

 

Here is the way I see it. If the guy was a control freak pre-affair, then he will just be twice as bad post, and she should walk. If he was pretty laid back pre-affair... then it's a direct response to her actions, and she needs to just deal.

[blind_otter]

How recently did he find out about the affair? And has she come clean to him with all the truth, or is she holding back? Does he have reason to believe she might still be lying about some things or hiding some things? That may be why he wants to be present when she talks to a counselor.

 

If he just recently found out about the affair, then I think he gets a pass for his immediate reactions. At this point, he can't fathom how he's going to swallow the betrayal and all the lies and crap that went along with it. The last thing he's going to be thinking about is what HE needs to do - it's perfectly understandable that his thinking is focused on what he needs HER to do to help him get over the cheating.

 

Given time, and the opportunity to choke down the bitter pill, he may be in a place where he can consider his part in the break-down of the marriage prior to the affair. But if it's recent, come on. You can't expect him to kiss her ass now.

 

AFAIK d-day was in late october of last year. So he has had time to mull over things, extensively. He moved out of state and stopped working. All he has is time to think about things.

 

IMO though, both parties should be allowed IC and then proceed with MC jointly. Everyone needs a private outlet, sometimes.

 

I do believe the WS has the right to ask if the BS will ever forgive them. If the BS cannot do this, then the marriage should end and both parties should go their separate ways.

 

It is wrong to have an affair, but it would be torture to have it held over one's head for the rest of their life.

[twice_shy]

I was wondering this over the weekend.

 

Say you have a rather rocky marriage. Then one partner goes and has an affair. Then the couple reconciles and tries to make things work together.

 

Does the affair discount any previous problems in the relationship?

 

No, because there is NO excuse to have an affair. If it bad enough to have an affair, then get a divorce.

 

All an affair does is make the betrayed not trust the cheater for the rest of their life if they decide to stay together.

 

Oh people say that they can learn to trust again, but they need to ask themselves deep down, can they really, I mean REALLY, trust that person again 100%? My answer is, no.

[twice_shy]

What if the injured party refuses to acknowledge what they did to contribute to the downfall of the marriage?

 

It doesn't matter. Blaming the betrayed doesn't abolve the cheater of their unscrupulous behavior.

 

Ok, so there are two people in this marriage. Both parties are more than likely responsible for the problems in their marriage. So one party cheats.

 

Now what you have are two people that are STILL responsible for their problems, but only one of them was idiot enough to go out and gratify themself with another person.

 

So if we take your view, then what it seems like you are insinuating is, "straighten up, or I will cheat on you". I don't care what problems there are in a marriage, they need to be dealt with because they want the marriage to work, not because one is scared that the other will cheat.

[twice_shy]

then IMO, the marrige will never be repaired.

 

From a BS POV. This was very difficult to grasp. Its the denial stage...and some never get out of it.

 

Now, I was pissed and there was no way I was going to admit that it was my fault she had the affair.

 

Even if you admitted to your role in the problems in the marriage, now the other party, who is also responsible for the problems, went out and made it 20 times worse.

[twice_shy]

Maybe some people do this. Not all. Personally I think it's really unhealthy to bring up old **** from the far past.

 

I think its more of an unhealthy thing to screw someone other than their spouse.

[twice_shy]

AFAIK d-day was in late october of last year. So he has had time to mull over things, extensively.

 

Maybe, but its definitely not so far away that he can come to a point where he doesn't think about it day to day. That may take a couple years. He is angry, and justifiably so.

 

 

He moved out of state and stopped working. All he has is time to think about things.

 

??? So are they getting a divorce or not? Because I don't understand the moving out of state thing if they are planning on still being married.

 

 

IMO though, both parties should be allowed IC and then proceed with MC jointly. Everyone needs a private outlet, sometimes.

 

She has already had hers.

 

 

I do believe the WS has the right to ask if the BS will ever forgive them. If the BS cannot do this, then the marriage should end and both parties should go their separate ways.

 

I think he should file for divorce anyway. From what you described, he will not forgive her. I know you didn't say that he came right out and said that to her, but for him to tell her about not going to counseling by herself, he is devestated by her cheating. I don't think he will really ever get over this.

 

I don't think anyone really ever gets over it. Thats why I divorced my wife, and I'd suggest that this guy do the same. Life with a cheater is no life at all.

 

It is wrong to have an affair, but it would be torture to have it held over one's head for the rest of their life.

 

This is why I always suggest divorce. Because the cheater, and apparantly you agree, thinks the betrayed should just leave them alone about it and "get over it".

 

So basically the cheater doesn't want to hear any more about it, but the cheater has sentenced the betrayed to a life of constantly reliving in their mind what their spouse did to them.

 

So the cheater wants the betrayed to drop it. So what is the cheater gonna do to get those visions out of the head of the person they screwed over so badly? Nothing. Thats why they should divorce.