Just Started NC Today

[Jess-Belle]

Why is it wrong of me for not wanting his W or kids to know about me if he leaves?

 

I can actually appreciate your intent here. My only thought to that is, even the best laid plans....

 

Sometimes things just get found out. Sometimes people could even swear up and down that no one knows, when it is untrue. Sometimes things can be deduced.

 

Neither of my parents know that I know about all that, or how it affected me.

[HeatherK08]

1. I dont think they need to know the whole drama if they are little but eventually they will be old enough to want to know everything that happened. Chances are that they will make their own judgement and the parent at fault will have to deal with the dents. Yes, I know that it shouldnt take away the fact that "I am still your wonderful loving parent no matter what"- does apply. I have a guy friend that comes from a split home where the father cheated and left his mother for the OW and let me tell ya' my friend is ONE troubled adult because of it.

 

2. What is wrong with you? MHO- could be that you have a conscience and it's kicking in by you trying to keep yourself unexposed. What do you think?

 

Could be...could be... :/

[HeatherK08]

I can actually appreciate your intent here. My only thought to that is, even the best laid plans....

 

Sometimes things just get found out. Sometimes people could even swear up and down that no one knows, when it is untrue. Sometimes things can be deduced.

 

Neither of my parents know that I know about all that, or how it affected me.

 

That's true...and I don't know what his W is like enough to know whether or not she'd tell them if she found out. :/

[nadiaj2727]

Sorry to have missed that question in the mist of our past convo.

But I want to say somewhere in all that text I answered it, just not crytal...

 

I came across the forum because it was directly linked to another board on a members post didnt even know that the community was about "love" period. Basically just directed me to OW/OM section. I'm not a blogger and this is probably the second community that I have ever ever visited or signed up for.

 

When I started reading... I was in shock that actually there are so many people in this situation and also thinking that is just perfect to live this way. Wrecking homes, marriages, families, hurting themselves and everyone else in between, even innocent people that have done absolutely nothing to you!! Some have psychological issues that they cant help and this type of relationships are more of a behavioral issue, some in fact did fall in love with an "impossible" and made it happened, some are just women that dont give a ish or just dont want the responsability of a committed relationship... the reasons could be endless but the results fall in very few categories. There all kinds of scenarios here, some are genuine and the parties involved have kept their cool (to those, G*d bless!) but there are some that are just way over the top!

Sad.

 

To me is basically reading the mind of a "serial killer". I am interested, because it affected me directly. Like I said in another post, it's sitting onthe faiting couch minus the co-pay and the $250 fee that she charges my insurance. LOL! I am still in the "getting over it" process and the worst is not here yet! (need to find myself another community for that episode!)

 

You... I have read some of your post and you are very smart and witty- yet very understanding and unbias.

 

Like I said, if you knew more of my story you will understand why I would even waste the bandwith.

 

Thanks for that long explanation, I understand better now. Do you mean that your story is posted in previous posts and that I should go back and read them to see more where you're coming from? Or do you mean that you haven't shared your story here yet?

 

I agree that it is sad that so many women are OWs even though they experience so much pain and drama because of it. I didn't even realize I *was* an OW at first -- I thought he was getting divorced and we were going to be together in a real relationship. I guess that's how it happens a lot of the time. When I realized the full extent of my situation and actions and their impact on myself and others, I was like OMG what am I doing?! I ended things pretty quickly after coming to this board and other sites like it and realizing that my situation was *not* unique, that I was one more OW being strung along by MM and I was *not* okay with it. I was not at all "understanding" about his long drawn out divorce or whatever, blah blah blah, I was like, I have been showing myself no respect, his wife no respect... the only one "winning" in this situation is HIM, even though he's all mopey and says poor me, I'm so confused and overwhelmed.

 

I don't want to speak for all OWs or former OWs but I myself *definitely* had pscychological issues that led to behavioral issues... not only with my A with xMM but with a lot of other past decisions in my life. Being an OW was my wake up call, like, what have I been doing and why?!?!? I am only beginning to realize with the help of a really good therapist (after trying several mediocre and crappy ones) where my pain is coming from and why I have acted it out in such self-destructive means. When I was OW I didn't think I had issues, until I hit rock bottom and thought "WHO does this to themselves??? Not a healthy woman, and I want to be healthy."

 

So that is my personal take on my own situation. I'm glad you find my comments unbiased, I am obviously very against women being OW, I don't think it's a healthy or happy situation for any woman. But I do realize some OW think differently and I try, try, try my hardest to understand that different viewpoint. And I understand that OW doesn't just wake up one day and say "I am not OW anymore"... it wasn't like that for me, it was a process, and I would venture to guess that *most* OW eventually realize it was a bad decision and they want to improve their situation.

[nadiaj2727]

Again Heather sorry to t/j. I'm thinking it's kind of related though, as Owl said... there seems to be a pattern for you. I myself had a pattern of cheating (I recently realized that I had never been faithful to any of my previous boyfriends! I had a lot of excuses and justifications each time [like, "I was TRYING to break up with him, but he wouldn't let me, but he KNEW I wanted out", or "I was ABOUT to break up with him, so it didn't count"...] so I didn't even realize it until I was very very honest with myself. I also got involved with a married man and helped HIM cheat on his wife. Yes, I think that if it wasn't me, eventually it would have been someone else, no matter how much he swore I was the love of his life and he had never done this and never would with anyone else, etc. Well, the fact is, when he had an opportunity to cheat, for whatever reason (even love, which to me can be the strongest delusion and self-justification of all), he took it, so he likely would have with someone else. But the fact is that I let him cheat on his wife with ME, and I had no problem with it for quite some time, because I felt *entitled* to be with him.

 

I was very unhappy with this pattern and I had to sit down and figure out the pattern and how to stop it. (I am still doing that.) I don't think I could have a happy life and fulfilling relationships until I realized that cheating is wrong, being involved with a married man is wrong... it all led to more unhappiness for me, and a continuation of a big unhappy cycle.

 

Do you think this could be true in your case at all? You seem to have a lot of justficiations for when cheating is "okay." (Your exH abused you but you excuse him for cheating [which I consider a form of emotional abuse] because he found someone "better" for him, who he loved, or something [sorry but I don't really understand your reasoning behind this so I may be accidentally mis-interpreting or mis-reporting your previous posts.]) It is not okay for a married man to be a serial cheater but it's okay for a married man to cheat *once* for the right reasons? It's okay if the children never find out about it, and what the wife doesn't know won't hurt her? Because you've been cheated on in the past, you think it's sometimes justifiable?

 

I'm just trying to point out what I think are confusing attempts to justify cheating in your previous posts. This may represent a pattern of getting yourself into the wrong relationships (as you said, you haven't found a guy who gives you what you need) and being drawn, in a way, to self-destructive relationships and actions. I am not saying this to judge you and I don't know if my theory holds any weight or not. I'm just basing it on my own experiences, as someone who has been drawn to the totally WRONG men/ relationships for me and as someone who has continually done things that HURT myself and others. I see a lot of similarities in the way I used to think and the words that jump out in your posts -- self-justifications and contradictory reasoning etc. So I just wanted to share what I've learned about myself and see if it helps you at all. Best wishes.

[MimiMe]

NadiaJ- No, my whole story is not posted here... I've just written pieces (more like just a sentence compared to the script) of it in some of the posts. But quickly get a "shutdafackup" from people that perhaps dont want to hear what their involvement in these A's do to the other side of the fence.

 

If I come across as "hostile" and "bitter" perhaps I was not always this way- yes, you guys are going to say "WELL WE are not your OW and WE are not YOUR case, so get the fack outta here". Some personalities just want to sugar coat the fact and make it sound like this happens every where and its a form of like- Rock on! but whatevs, that's life!

 

I commend you for coming to terms with your issues and making a decision, but most for making the one that was best for without having to screw everyone in between. This takes me back to... Life is about choices: Right-Left, Yes- No, Black-White and there are those who chose to live in Middle, Maybe, Grey.

[HeatherK08]

Again Heather sorry to t/j. I'm thinking it's kind of related though, as Owl said... there seems to be a pattern for you. I myself had a pattern of cheating (I recently realized that I had never been faithful to any of my previous boyfriends! I had a lot of excuses and justifications each time [like, "I was TRYING to break up with him, but he wouldn't let me, but he KNEW I wanted out", or "I was ABOUT to break up with him, so it didn't count"...] so I didn't even realize it until I was very very honest with myself. I also got involved with a married man and helped HIM cheat on his wife. Yes, I think that if it wasn't me, eventually it would have been someone else, no matter how much he swore I was the love of his life and he had never done this and never would with anyone else, etc. Well, the fact is, when he had an opportunity to cheat, for whatever reason (even love, which to me can be the strongest delusion and self-justification of all), he took it, so he likely would have with someone else. But the fact is that I let him cheat on his wife with ME, and I had no problem with it for quite some time, because I felt *entitled* to be with him.

 

I was very unhappy with this pattern and I had to sit down and figure out the pattern and how to stop it. (I am still doing that.) I don't think I could have a happy life and fulfilling relationships until I realized that cheating is wrong, being involved with a married man is wrong... it all led to more unhappiness for me, and a continuation of a big unhappy cycle.

 

Do you think this could be true in your case at all? You seem to have a lot of justficiations for when cheating is "okay." (Your exH abused you but you excuse him for cheating [which I consider a form of emotional abuse] because he found someone "better" for him, who he loved, or something [sorry but I don't really understand your reasoning behind this so I may be accidentally mis-interpreting or mis-reporting your previous posts.]) It is not okay for a married man to be a serial cheater but it's okay for a married man to cheat *once* for the right reasons? It's okay if the children never find out about it, and what the wife doesn't know won't hurt her? Because you've been cheated on in the past, you think it's sometimes justifiable?

 

I'm just trying to point out what I think are confusing attempts to justify cheating in your previous posts. This may represent a pattern of getting yourself into the wrong relationships (as you said, you haven't found a guy who gives you what you need) and being drawn, in a way, to self-destructive relationships and actions. I am not saying this to judge you and I don't know if my theory holds any weight or not. I'm just basing it on my own experiences, as someone who has been drawn to the totally WRONG men/ relationships for me and as someone who has continually done things that HURT myself and others. I see a lot of similarities in the way I used to think and the words that jump out in your posts -- self-justifications and contradictory reasoning etc. So I just wanted to share what I've learned about myself and see if it helps you at all. Best wishes.

 

Ummmm the beginning of your post is a little off because you've misread my posts, - I never justified my xH's cheating, blech. And I don't think it's ok for MM to be cheating either. But the last paragraph hits home for me. I'm sure I'll be facing it in therapy myself (I go every wed. night) - and I know this can't go on. I know cheating is wrong, and like I posted before, I would never go through that again - it ruins relationships, makes you feel guilty for years on end (you're never right in arguments because nothing will ever be as bad as "well you cheated on me!") blah blah blah, it's just NOT a good decision all around.

[Owl]

Then why encourage MM to cheat on his wife with you?

 

Then why build a brand new relationship with him that has a base firmly established in an affair with you?

 

Wh y go NC with him in the hopes that he leaves his wife for you?

 

Can you see how this seems to be in direct conflict with you OWN views on cheating?

[JMC]

Heather, you are so strong and resolute for your age.

 

I wish so bad I could do that shutting-out thing, just in general. But no, I'm like a floppy sponge for God's sake.

 

I get the feeling though, that your youth is what might have made you vulnerable to falling for him, despite your innate strength (and perhaps that attracted him).

 

If that's true, that makes me furious at him for taking advantage of that...sorry if I'm wrong about the youth thing.

 

I also have total faith that you're going to get through and out of this.

 

I don't want to sound cliche but I do feel you have so much going for you, more than this guy deserves.

[HeatherK08]

Then why encourage MM to cheat on his wife with you?

 

Then why build a brand new relationship with him that has a base firmly established in an affair with you?

 

Wh y go NC with him in the hopes that he leaves his wife for you?

 

Can you see how this seems to be in direct conflict with you OWN views on cheating?

 

Um yes, that's why it's called a conflict. That's why I'm here.

 

I had foreknowledge that they had not been doing well for years, he DID leave when we started seeing eachother, it's only recently that he went back and still wants to see me while trying to 'figure it out'.

 

If I had all the answers, I wouldn't be here looking for them, thanks for the encouragement, I'll be sure to thank you when it's all over...(that was sarcasm).

[HeatherK08]

Heather, you are so strong and resolute for your age.

 

I wish so bad I could do that shutting-out thing, just in general. But no, I'm like a floppy sponge for God's sake.

 

I get the feeling though, that your youth is what might have made you vulnerable to falling for him, despite your innate strength (and perhaps that attracted him).

 

If that's true, that makes me furious at him for taking advantage of that...sorry if I'm wrong about the youth thing.

 

I also have total faith that you're going to get through and out of this.

 

I don't want to sound cliche but I do feel you have so much going for you, more than this guy deserves.

 

My youth...maybe. Never been in this position, but almost every woman I've talked to has said they've been there, when they were young.

 

Thank you, I really appreciate your words. I'm sure I will look back on this one day and as much as I will probably still 'feel' for him, I'll be glad I didn't prolong it any further.

[JMC]

Now I have to say this....

 

I LOVE your conviction, your strength, your resolution, in the face of differing opinions.

 

EVEN IF you turn out to be wrong - I LOVE it!!!

 

I aspire to be like that - to so believe in myself and what I do, feel, and believe - because I don't, and I'm a lot older than you.

 

It's inspiring to me.

[nadiaj2727]

Ummmm the beginning of your post is a little off because you've misread my posts, - I never justified my xH's cheating, blech.

 

I apologize for misreading your posts. I was mostly referring to this one, which I mistakening assumed was a justification:

 

I'm divorced, have a lot of history with my ex, and we have kids. His gf stepped into the picture when we were married. They've been together for 4 years now, she had nothing to do with the failure of my marriage, nor do I have anything to do with his. We're actually all friends now.

 

Separate issues. He would not be leaving her for me. He makes that clear over and over, and I know if for myself, I didn't cause them to want a divorce for over 5 years, that's between them. But I do agree I eventually will have to step all the way out of the picture.

 

It seemed to me that you were justifying your affair with MM a little bit because your xH did the same to you and you didn't feel that his GF had anything to do with your divorce. I thought you were saying, "so, I don't have anything to do with MM's divorce." If you were saying that, I feel it's kind of a justification because you don't really know if you have anything to do with MM's divorce. He seemed to be staying in his marriage until you entered the picture. His wife would probably think you have a lot to do with a divorce. Etc. So I meant, it seemed you were saying that because you were okay with your xH's GF, the situation between you and MM and his W if all okay too... which may or may not be the case in reality. Am I making any sense here?

 

And I don't think it's ok for MM to be cheating either.

 

In some of your posts, you said something like, it's not a betrayal (on the children or maybe the W?) if MM falls in love with someone else and leaves or if the primary family never knows about it, but it is a betrayal if they know about it or if it's because he's a serial cheater. So to me it sounded like you were trying to make distinctions between different kinds of cheating and cheating in certain circumstances. I guess some people think it's okay to tell a lie to avoid hurting someone's feelings, it's okay to steal bread if you're hungry, etc... so I can see how there are different "degrees" or "reasonings" for things. However to me a cheater is a cheater is a cheater and it doesn't matter why they're cheating. A man who cheats on his wife 8 times and a man who cheats on his wife 1 time are both cheaters in my book (and I'm not even the wife LOL!), and have no excuse for their actions. "Love" is not an excuse to me... it is an attempt to justify going after your own interests (love for new person) instead of your spouse's interest who you promised to protect. (I am not saying they shouldn't get divorced ... but as long as she thinks she is in a monogamous marriage, he should be living that way... being with a new person for any reason without informing her of the change in status in HER relationship is cheating and lying to me, no matter which way you slice it.)

 

But the last paragraph hits home for me. I'm sure I'll be facing it in therapy myself (I go every wed. night) - and I know this can't go on. I know cheating is wrong, and like I posted before, I would never go through that again - it ruins relationships, makes you feel guilty for years on end (you're never right in arguments because nothing will ever be as bad as "well you cheated on me!") blah blah blah, it's just NOT a good decision all around.

 

I'm glad I've helped. Kudos to you for being in therapy. I'm glad you know cheating is wrong. I'm not trying to fight with you, just clarify my points and my opinions. Obviously you may disagree with some. And sorry for misreading your posts.

[Owl]

If I had all the answers, I wouldn't be here looking for them, thanks for the encouragement, I'll be sure to thank you when it's all over...(that was sarcasm).

 

You can save the sarcasm. I'm not interested or impressed.

 

What I'm pointing out here is that you KNOW the answers...you just don't like them. So you're looking for ways to avoid those answers by coming here, rather than just doing what you know you need to do. You're not looking for advice. You're not looking for support. You're looking for ways to dodge those answers, avoid that conflict, and do what you WANT to do versus doing what you know you SHOULD be doing.

 

Rather than shower me in sarcasm, please simply let me know that you'd rather I didn't post to you anymore, and I'll move on. My intent has not been to offend or deride you, but simply give you some point blank advice.

[HeatherK08]

You can save the sarcasm. I'm not interested or impressed.

 

What I'm pointing out here is that you KNOW the answers...you just don't like them. So you're looking for ways to avoid those answers by coming here, rather than just doing what you know you need to do. You're not looking for advice. You're not looking for support. You're looking for ways to dodge those answers, avoid that conflict, and do what you WANT to do versus doing what you know you SHOULD be doing.

 

Rather than shower me in sarcasm, please simply let me know that you'd rather I didn't post to you anymore, and I'll move on. My intent has not been to offend or deride you, but simply give you some point blank advice.

 

I love how you KNOW what I'm thinking - I COME here to get a reality check instead of burying my head in the sand, and YES please stop posting to me - you'd get more bees with honey...and it's not about NOT telling the truth, it's the way you do it.

[nadiaj2727]

I love how you KNOW what I'm thinking - I COME here to get a reality check instead of burying my head in the sand, and YES please stop posting to me - you'd get more bees with honey...and it's not about NOT telling the truth, it's the way you do it.

 

I don't understand what all the fighting is about. I think Owl gave some good advice. Why the sarcastic responses? If you came here to get a reality check... isn't that what Owl is providing like the rest of us?

 

I guess since I don't even understand why this fight is occuring, I will get out of its way. I'm super confused LOL.

[HeatherK08]

I apologize for misreading your posts. I was mostly referring to this one, which I mistakening assumed was a justification:

 

 

 

It seemed to me that you were justifying your affair with MM a little bit because your xH did the same to you and you didn't feel that his GF had anything to do with your divorce. I thought you were saying, "so, I don't have anything to do with MM's divorce." If you were saying that, I feel it's kind of a justification because you don't really know if you have anything to do with MM's divorce. He seemed to be staying in his marriage until you entered the picture. His wife would probably think you have a lot to do with a divorce. Etc. So I meant, it seemed you were saying that because you were okay with your xH's GF, the situation between you and MM and his W if all okay too... which may or may not be the case in reality. Am I making any sense here?

 

 

 

In some of your posts, you said something like, it's not a betrayal (on the children or maybe the W?) if MM falls in love with someone else and leaves or if the primary family never knows about it, but it is a betrayal if they know about it or if it's because he's a serial cheater. So to me it sounded like you were trying to make distinctions between different kinds of cheating and cheating in certain circumstances. I guess some people think it's okay to tell a lie to avoid hurting someone's feelings, it's okay to steal bread if you're hungry, etc... so I can see how there are different "degrees" or "reasonings" for things. However to me a cheater is a cheater is a cheater and it doesn't matter why they're cheating. A man who cheats on his wife 8 times and a man who cheats on his wife 1 time are both cheaters in my book (and I'm not even the wife LOL!), and have no excuse for their actions. "Love" is not an excuse to me... it is an attempt to justify going after your own interests (love for new person) instead of your spouse's interest who you promised to protect. (I am not saying they shouldn't get divorced ... but as long as she thinks she is in a monogamous marriage, he should be living that way... being with a new person for any reason without informing her of the change in status in HER relationship is cheating and lying to me, no matter which way you slice it.)

 

 

 

I'm glad I've helped. Kudos to you for being in therapy. I'm glad you know cheating is wrong. I'm not trying to fight with you, just clarify my points and my opinions. Obviously you may disagree with some. And sorry for misreading your posts.

 

Okay - I understand now. I said that re his gf because she wasn't why we divorced, he had many A's before she came along, it was pretty much over, I thought that's what our circumstances were which is how things got started, I mean especially since he rented his own place and saw a divorce lawyer. You're right love is not an excuse. I've told him that.

[JMC]

Just let Heather be....she's going thru a lot.

 

I love Owl to death but maybe it's just not what she wants to or needs to hear right now; maybe they don't mix well, I don't know.

 

It's her process....let her go thru it!!

 

Now don't a bunch of you come on here and bug her by saying she "just doesn't want to hear the truth [YOUR TRUTH]". For the millionth time, she isn't seeing YOUR spouse...she wasn't the one that threatened/messed up/broke up YOUR SITUATION.

 

Sometimes we need to come on here and just talk and reflect.

 

Let us do that without tryin' to make us all fit into YOUR BOX!!!

 

Let us be.....

[nadiaj2727]

Just let Heather be....she's going thru a lot.

 

I love Owl to death but maybe it's just not what she wants to or needs to hear right now; maybe they don't mix well, I don't know.

 

It's her process....let her go thru it!!

 

Now don't a bunch of you come on here and bug her by saying she "just doesn't want to hear the truth [YOUR TRUTH]". For the millionth time, she isn't seeing YOUR spouse...she wasn't the one that threatened/messed up/broke up YOUR SITUATION.

 

Sometimes we need to come on here and just talk and reflect.

 

Let us do that without tryin' to make us all fit into YOUR BOX!!!

 

Let us be.....

 

I am not a BS (if this was aimed at me)? Owl is a BS but I don't think he was being bitter, he was just asking Heather questions to HELP her "reflect" on her own situation.

 

I think we were all trying to let Heather talk and reflect. Sometimes it is hard to know what kind of "support" the OW is looking for. By "let us be", do you mean that we should let her and other OW post her thoughts and not answer? We should only answer if we agree with everything she says? What kind of a "forum" would that be?

 

I agree that people shouldn't come here just to attack all OWs out of a personal vendetta. I don't like when posts are hostile and spiteful just because. But that is not at all what I thought Owl was doing. I thought he was listening to what Heather had to say and then giving her his opinion and also trying to help Heather sort out all her different emotions and thoughts. I am not sure what in Owl's posts made Heather react with sarcasm and hurt. So I was just expressing my confusion and perhaps asking Heather what Owl is doing wrong so I can make sure not to do it.

 

I have nothing against you Heather. I really relate to you and I could not judge you for anything because I have stood in your same shoes. *Most* people in this forum have had some kind of experience with affairs -- no matter what end they were on -- and I think it only goes to show that affairs are hurtful to everyone involved in them either willingly or unwillingly. Yes I think you should be in NC for *you* and because I think it's the right thing to do etc. but I understand that you don't want to do that right now and I'm not holding that against you. It took me a long time to go NC from my xMM and if I remember correctly it also took Owl's wife quite awhile to go NC from her xOM as well. It's naturally a drawn-out process and finally you will just get there but we will be here for you whether you're in NC or not. Owl is a consistently supportive (as in, giving his honest opinion and advice about everyone's own situation, yes, based on his past experiences being hurt as a result of an affair) poster who never says (at least as far as I've heard) "I'm done trying to talk to you because you are not doing what I think you should do." I think Owl understands that and I don't think he has anything personal against you either, I think he was just trying to help. But I will let that be between you two. I just wanted to say that I am here for you no matter what you decide and I am pretty sure Owl is too.

[HeatherK08]

Now I have to say this....

 

I LOVE your conviction, your strength, your resolution, in the face of differing opinions.

 

EVEN IF you turn out to be wrong - I LOVE it!!!

 

I aspire to be like that - to so believe in myself and what I do, feel, and believe - because I don't, and I'm a lot older than you.

 

It's inspiring to me.

 

I'm a New Yorker There isn't much I haven't faced off in, but even with those great compliments, I can't help feeling like an ass for being in this situation. The way his therapist was talking, and the way he talks, it seems that if I really want this I can have it - that once I make the decision to walk away, he'll do what he needs to do. But that's just talk and I need to know one way or the other so I can move on with my life.

 

My NC date is May 1. He doesn't know it. I'm not going to spend my summer being strung along. Until then, I'm being (can't help it) a real b$#^h because I'm mad at him for asking this from me, mad at myself too. By then I should have a realization that he's not leaving anytime soon, and I'll have this whole thread to look at to fall back on.

[HeatherK08]

I am not a BS (if this was aimed at me)? Owl is a BS but I don't think he was being bitter, he was just asking Heather questions to HELP her "reflect" on her own situation.

 

I think we were all trying to let Heather talk and reflect. Sometimes it is hard to know what kind of "support" the OW is looking for. By "let us be", do you mean that we should let her and other OW post her thoughts and not answer? We should only answer if we agree with everything she says? What kind of a "forum" would that be?

 

I agree that people shouldn't come here just to attack all OWs out of a personal vendetta. I don't like when posts are hostile and spiteful just because. But that is not at all what I thought Owl was doing. I thought he was listening to what Heather had to say and then giving her his opinion and also trying to help Heather sort out all her different emotions and thoughts. I am not sure what in Owl's posts made Heather react with sarcasm and hurt. So I was just expressing my confusion and perhaps asking Heather what Owl is doing wrong so I can make sure not to do it.

 

I have nothing against you Heather. I really relate to you and I could not judge you for anything because I have stood in your same shoes. *Most* people in this forum have had some kind of experience with affairs -- no matter what end they were on -- and I think it only goes to show that affairs are hurtful to everyone involved in them either willingly or unwillingly. Yes I think you should be in NC for *you* and because I think it's the right thing to do etc. but I understand that you don't want to do that right now and I'm not holding that against you. It took me a long time to go NC from my xMM and if I remember correctly it also took Owl's wife quite awhile to go NC from her xOM as well. It's naturally a drawn-out process and finally you will just get there but we will be here for you whether you're in NC or not. Owl is a consistently supportive (as in, giving his honest opinion and advice about everyone's own situation, yes, based on his past experiences being hurt as a result of an affair) poster who never says (at least as far as I've heard) "I'm done trying to talk to you because you are not doing what I think you should do." I think Owl understands that and I don't think he has anything personal against you either, I think he was just trying to help. But I will let that be between you two. I just wanted to say that I am here for you no matter what you decide and I am pretty sure Owl is too.

 

I haven't seen one supportive line (i.e., this will get better, you'll be ok without him, etc) from him. Usually it's best to at least start off with a premise of CARE before going straight to the hard stuff. I'm sure his experience prevents him from feeling any kind of sympathies, but, that's just my opinion. People are so quick to judge until they find themselves in the same position. I've always made comments when I've heard of A's going on, like "Oh gross, she can't find a man of her own?" or "Then why doesn't he just get a D if his wife isn't giving it up?" or "I can't believe he/she's cheating, ugh, what an awful person." Yes, the behavior is wrong, that doesn't discount all the good in the person though, and there is no reason to treat people with contempt, especially if you don't even know them!

 

Anyone ever read the Scarlett letter?

[Jess-Belle]

I haven't seen one supportive line (i.e., this will get better, you'll be ok without him, etc) from him. Usually it's best to at least start off with a premise of CARE before going straight to the hard stuff. I'm sure his experience prevents him from feeling any kind of sympathies, but, that's just my opinion.

 

Well, FWIW, I feel Owl is just a point-blank person (he's an ex-military man after all), I don't feel that he sounds uncaring or unsympathetic. But I can empathize that as an OW he would have probably made me extremely uncomfortable, solely because he doesn't sugar coat things and just gets straight to the uncomfortable truths. Hopefully when you are at a less sensitive time in your life you may see that he means no offense.

[Owl]

If I didn't care at all...I wouldn't post anything to your thread. If I didn't think that you were a person of value and importance, I wouldn't spend time trying to give you advice or help you work through things.

 

I tend to post those 'questions' to make people think...to get them to see that they've already worked through this stuff in their heads (and this is true in the vast majority of cases)...and then let them come to the conclusions that they already knew.

 

People nearly always already know the "right thing" to do...its that struggle to convince themselves to do that "right thing" which is the source of their stress most of the time.

 

I'm convinced that this is exactly the case in this situation as well. Heather's responses to this clearly show that already.

 

I'll no longer post to this thread. I wish Heather the best of luck in all of this.

[MimiMe]

I'm a New Yorker There isn't much I haven't faced off in, but even with those great compliments, I can't help feeling like an ass for being in this situation. The way his therapist was talking, and the way he talks, it seems that if I really want this I can have it - that once I make the decision to walk away, he'll do what he needs to do. But that's just talk and I need to know one way or the other so I can move on with my life.

 

My NC date is May 1. He doesn't know it. I'm not going to spend my summer being strung along. Until then, I'm being (can't help it) a real b$#^h because I'm mad at him for asking this from me, mad at myself too. By then I should have a realization that he's not leaving anytime soon, and I'll have this whole thread to look at to fall back on.

 

 

YO, Let's go have a drink! I'm in NYC too!

[MimiMe]

If I didn't care at all...I wouldn't post anything to your thread. If I didn't think that you were a person of value and importance, I wouldn't spend time trying to give you advice or help you work through things.

 

I tend to post those 'questions' to make people think...to get them to see that they've already worked through this stuff in their heads (and this is true in the vast majority of cases)...and then let them come to the conclusions that they already knew.

 

People nearly always already know the "right thing" to do...its that struggle to convince themselves to do that "right thing" which is the source of their stress most of the time.

 

I'm convinced that this is exactly the case in this situation as well. Heather's responses to this clearly show that already.

 

I'll no longer post to this thread. I wish Heather the best of luck in all of this.

 

:confused: