nadiaj2727 Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 YO, Let's go have a drink! I'm in NYC too! Look at all these New Yorkers! I'm not but I went to college there and all my college friends live there and I go back about 4 times a year (ALWAYS for New Year's of course! ) I love New York. (I just can't afford to live there LOL) Link to post Share on other sites
Author HeatherK08 Posted March 12, 2008 Author Share Posted March 12, 2008 Well, FWIW, I feel Owl is just a point-blank person (he's an ex-military man after all), I don't feel that he sounds uncaring or unsympathetic. But I can empathize that as an OW he would have probably made me extremely uncomfortable, solely because he doesn't sugar coat things and just gets straight to the uncomfortable truths. Hopefully when you are at a less sensitive time in your life you may see that he means no offense. Please show me a post of his to me that says 'sympathetic or caring' to you. Am I supposed to have somehow known he's ex-military and that that excuses him from showing any kind of pleasant emotion? I have a great therapist, she gives it to me straight every week, I give it to myself straight every day, getting 'straight' to things doesn't 'resolve' them - everyone needs time to come to their own conclusion, and as Owl said, match the 'knowledge' with the 'behaviors'...that's not gonna happen by posting "You know what you're doing is wrong, right?" to someone, please show me the post where this has happened, that someone turned right around after 'seeing the light'... Hey OWL - if you are showing concern in you emotionless masculine way, then I forgive you and hope you will not give up on me ok? You gotta give the newbies a break, geez. Link to post Share on other sites
Author HeatherK08 Posted March 12, 2008 Author Share Posted March 12, 2008 YO, Let's go have a drink! I'm in NYC too! Awesome! I work in midtown, east side, law firm (yes, please feel sorry for me). Link to post Share on other sites
Author HeatherK08 Posted March 12, 2008 Author Share Posted March 12, 2008 Look at all these New Yorkers! I'm not but I went to college there and all my college friends live there and I go back about 4 times a year (ALWAYS for New Year's of course! ) I love New York. (I just can't afford to live there LOL) Awwww, we'll send you a drink so you won't feel left out! Link to post Share on other sites
nadiaj2727 Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 I haven't seen one supportive line (i.e., this will get better, you'll be ok without him, etc) from him. Usually it's best to at least start off with a premise of CARE before going straight to the hard stuff. I'm sure his experience prevents him from feeling any kind of sympathies, but, that's just my opinion. People are so quick to judge until they find themselves in the same position. I've always made comments when I've heard of A's going on, like "Oh gross, she can't find a man of her own?" or "Then why doesn't he just get a D if his wife isn't giving it up?" or "I can't believe he/she's cheating, ugh, what an awful person." Yes, the behavior is wrong, that doesn't discount all the good in the person though, and there is no reason to treat people with contempt, especially if you don't even know them! Anyone ever read the Scarlett letter? Okay. So you want expressions of sympathy and understanding. That is really good to know. It's helpful when the poster says what exactly they are looking for instead of just "support" me, which could mean a variety of different things, from hand-holding, a shoulder to cry on, expressions of sympathy, communication, questions to help you reflect, I-can-relate stories, candid advice based on our own opinions, values and personal experiences, or tough love. I try to do all of those but I admit I'm pretty heavy on the tough love and candid advice. I will try to express more sympathy -- I guess sometimes I take it for granted that the poster knows I understand and sympathesize as a former OW. It's like, that's why I'm here and where my advice comes from -- I was once there, and this is the only thing that got me on the road to happiness, so let me share it with you. But I need to spend more time remembering those feelings during that crappy time (I guess I have an aversion to doing that ) so I can show you how I empathize and relate to your situation. Link to post Share on other sites
nadiaj2727 Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Awesome! I work in midtown, east side, law firm (yes, please feel sorry for me). I'm an attorney and I feel sorry for you for having to work in a law firm. I feel sorry for me too LOL Link to post Share on other sites
nadiaj2727 Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 everyone needs time to come to their own conclusion, and as Owl said, match the 'knowledge' with the 'behaviors'...that's not gonna happen by posting "You know what you're doing is wrong, right?" to someone, please show me the post where this has happened, that someone turned right around after 'seeing the light'... It was those kinds of tough love posts that woke up me and showed me the light. I needed someone to say "what are you doing? You know this is wrong and this isn't you." So I guess I tend to be more like and appreciate posters like Owl who are more like that, too. But not everyone needs that. And you're right that it didn't happen to me right away. I started realizing the truth of what they were saying, and the truth of what I knew and felt deep down inside about the affair, but I was defensive or resistent sometimes. Or I would leave the board determined to the right thing and then cave when I saw xMM and he said something particularly convincing or sweet to get me to stay on his string longer. So it was definitely not "turning right around" for me but I kept coming back for more tough love until I finally managed to kick that loser I loved so much to the curb. I think you are honest with us and you are trying to be honest with yourself and trying to take everyone's opinions for what they are worth to you. You are doing a great job. And I am not just saying that as part of my new goal to sound more supportive. You are seriously coming along just fine... this is a hard stage, believe me I know... the only thing harder is the first couple weeks of complete NC with no back-sliding. (But the good news is, it's all up hill after that. ) Link to post Share on other sites
MimiMe Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Awesome! I work in midtown, east side, law firm (yes, please feel sorry for me). I work in Eastside Midtown financial firm. LOL! where do you live? I live in Maspeth. Do we have private messaging here? jeez! Link to post Share on other sites
Author HeatherK08 Posted March 12, 2008 Author Share Posted March 12, 2008 Okay. So you want expressions of sympathy and understanding. That is really good to know. It's helpful when the poster says what exactly they are looking for instead of just "support" me, which could mean a variety of different things, from hand-holding, a shoulder to cry on, expressions of sympathy, communication, questions to help you reflect, I-can-relate stories, candid advice based on our own opinions, values and personal experiences, or tough love. I try to do all of those but I admit I'm pretty heavy on the tough love and candid advice. I will try to express more sympathy -- I guess sometimes I take it for granted that the poster knows I understand and sympathesize as a former OW. It's like, that's why I'm here and where my advice comes from -- I was once there, and this is the only thing that got me on the road to happiness, so let me share it with you. But I need to spend more time remembering those feelings during that crappy time (I guess I have an aversion to doing that ) so I can show you how I empathize and relate to your situation. AWwww....well, I'm not looking for like, tell me my dreams will come true sympathies, I can take the truth, but if I don't know what's behind it, you can't expect me to act all sweet about it. It is a crappy place to be in, I appreciate you guys really. I wouldn't be on here if I wanted to ignore the reality of the situation. I've seen the other stories, read the good advice posts, I need to write out my story so I don't get swept up in MM's justifications and rationalizations, if I didn't have this board I probably would have kept it going for a long time thinking it was ok. Link to post Share on other sites
MimiMe Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Look at all these New Yorkers! I'm not but I went to college there and all my college friends live there and I go back about 4 times a year (ALWAYS for New Year's of course! ) I love New York. (I just can't afford to live there LOL) Oh NYE in NYC is KRAZY! Especially this past NYE, I was single for the 1st time ever! and it felt great to not have to turn around at midnight and kiss someone that 3 seconds later ran to the "bathroom" or got on his blackberry to text his "boys". It felt very deliberating to not be lied to. Life is great! Link to post Share on other sites
Author HeatherK08 Posted March 12, 2008 Author Share Posted March 12, 2008 I'm an attorney and I feel sorry for you for having to work in a law firm. I feel sorry for me too LOL LOL. Well I'm the one who has to train you boogers on how to use the computer programs, and we're doing the Office 2007 roll out, fun!!! What kind of law do you practice? Link to post Share on other sites
noforgiveness Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 I find it extremely odd that his therapist is talking to you when he is seeing her to work through his feelings for his marriage. That seems WAY OFF. Are you sure it was really his therapist? I'm sure his wife would find that little tidbit very interesting. So does he give is wife the same permission to contact his therapist if she is having problems? This does not seem at all ethical. Link to post Share on other sites
Author HeatherK08 Posted March 12, 2008 Author Share Posted March 12, 2008 I work in Eastside Midtown financial firm. LOL! where do you live? I live in Maspeth. Do we have private messaging here? jeez! Riverdale I don't think I do, but you can email me at [email protected] Link to post Share on other sites
MimiMe Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 I'm an attorney and I feel sorry for you for having to work in a law firm. I feel sorry for me too LOL What's your branch? want to divorce me? hehe! Link to post Share on other sites
noforgiveness Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 heather please delete the email address please. Not a good idea especially on a site such as this. Link to post Share on other sites
Author HeatherK08 Posted March 12, 2008 Author Share Posted March 12, 2008 It was those kinds of tough love posts that woke up me and showed me the light. I needed someone to say "what are you doing? You know this is wrong and this isn't you." So I guess I tend to be more like and appreciate posters like Owl who are more like that, too. But not everyone needs that. And you're right that it didn't happen to me right away. I started realizing the truth of what they were saying, and the truth of what I knew and felt deep down inside about the affair, but I was defensive or resistent sometimes. Or I would leave the board determined to the right thing and then cave when I saw xMM and he said something particularly convincing or sweet to get me to stay on his string longer. So it was definitely not "turning right around" for me but I kept coming back for more tough love until I finally managed to kick that loser I loved so much to the curb. I think you are honest with us and you are trying to be honest with yourself and trying to take everyone's opinions for what they are worth to you. You are doing a great job. And I am not just saying that as part of my new goal to sound more supportive. You are seriously coming along just fine... this is a hard stage, believe me I know... the only thing harder is the first couple weeks of complete NC with no back-sliding. (But the good news is, it's all up hill after that. ) Yes, I've seen the way it works, that's why I'm here. I used to own a dicussion board for people who left a controlling religious group I used to belong to. We used to get people who were still debating whether to leave or not and the process is the same, make people aware of what they're doing, be supportive, listen, challenge, etc. and more often than not the person gradually realized how controlling the group was and left. Thanks for the encouragement! Link to post Share on other sites
Jess-Belle Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Please show me a post of his to me that says 'sympathetic or caring' to you. Am I supposed to have somehow known he's ex-military and that that excuses him from showing any kind of pleasant emotion? I have a great therapist, she gives it to me straight every week, I give it to myself straight every day, getting 'straight' to things doesn't 'resolve' them - everyone needs time to come to their own conclusion, and as Owl said, match the 'knowledge' with the 'behaviors'...that's not gonna happen by posting "You know what you're doing is wrong, right?" to someone, please show me the post where this has happened, that someone turned right around after 'seeing the light'... Hey OWL - if you are showing concern in you emotionless masculine way, then I forgive you and hope you will not give up on me ok? You gotta give the newbies a break, geez. What I'm saying is it will be impossible for you to see his approach as something other than a sort of attack right now, and that is totally normal given the position you're in. I feel relatively confident that if you were an outsider, you probably would not perceive his tone as harsh. I don't think anyone should expect someone to just 'see the light' after they say a few key phrases. I don't think that ever works... it's usually that the person lives through something and then they finally understand. Of course, caring folks tend to hope it happens sooner rather than later. Link to post Share on other sites
nadiaj2727 Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 LOL. Well I'm the one who has to train you boogers on how to use the computer programs, and we're doing the Office 2007 roll out, fun!!! What kind of law do you practice? I practiced insurance defense law under my former mentor xMM. (YES I am retarded!!!!!) Needless to say I requested a change of mentor and a change of legal area so that I no longer have to work on all his cases. (I still have to work on some though which sucks.) Now I mostly practice real estate and business law, which I like a lot better... and I am DONE sleeping with and entering into relationships with mentors (or any other married people, or any other people I work with, etc.!!!) Sorry Mimi I have absolutely no experience in family law and I'm not licensed in NY. Good luck with your divorce, I'm sure it's not fun. But I love New Year's in New York and I'm so happy you got to celebrate it this year without your cheating scumbag of a soon-to-be-ex husband!! That is so classless, running away to text OW after kissing you. *shudder* Link to post Share on other sites
nadiaj2727 Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Yes, I've seen the way it works, that's why I'm here. I used to own a dicussion board for people who left a controlling religious group I used to belong to. We used to get people who were still debating whether to leave or not and the process is the same, make people aware of what they're doing, be supportive, listen, challenge, etc. and more often than not the person gradually realized how controlling the group was and left. Thanks for the encouragement! I should have been on your discussion board. My parents were crazy evangelical Christians (have I said that on here already? I say it way too much, sorry if it's repetitive) and I am still "leaving" the group in that I am still learning to love and accept myself as not a Christian and not a member of their group, even if they don't. Oh and I forgot to say -- I wish you were my firm's IT person, our computers and software suck. I wish they would completely update *everything*, it's like we're stuck in the 90's or something, *sigh* Link to post Share on other sites
Author HeatherK08 Posted March 12, 2008 Author Share Posted March 12, 2008 I find it extremely odd that his therapist is talking to you when he is seeing her to work through his feelings for his marriage. That seems WAY OFF. Are you sure it was really his therapist? I'm sure his wife would find that little tidbit very interesting. So does he give is wife the same permission to contact his therapist if she is having problems? This does not seem at all ethical. Yes, it was, she had his permission to see me. I don't know if his wife has that, I'm guessing yes? They have 2 marriage counselors, his therapist is for him, not their marriage, and I believe her advice to him has been to be alone for a while, with no one and figure all this out on his own. What I got from her though, is that what he WOULD do is choose to be with me if I forced the issue. Link to post Share on other sites
Author HeatherK08 Posted March 12, 2008 Author Share Posted March 12, 2008 I practiced insurance defense law under my former mentor xMM. (YES I am retarded!!!!!) Needless to say I requested a change of mentor and a change of legal area so that I no longer have to work on all his cases. (I still have to work on some though which sucks.) Now I mostly practice real estate and business law, which I like a lot better... and I am DONE sleeping with and entering into relationships with mentors (or any other married people, or any other people I work with, etc.!!!) Sorry Mimi I have absolutely no experience in family law and I'm not licensed in NY. Good luck with your divorce, I'm sure it's not fun. But I love New Year's in New York and I'm so happy you got to celebrate it this year without your cheating scumbag of a soon-to-be-ex husband!! That is so classless, running away to text OW after kissing you. *shudder* Oh man...well my MM is a head of a department here, one of the big partners, and yeah I'll be staying away from the corner offices too! Link to post Share on other sites
MimiMe Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 I practiced insurance defense law under my former mentor xMM. (YES I am retarded!!!!!) Needless to say I requested a change of mentor and a change of legal area so that I no longer have to work on all his cases. (I still have to work on some though which sucks.) Now I mostly practice real estate and business law, which I like a lot better... and I am DONE sleeping with and entering into relationships with mentors (or any other married people, or any other people I work with, etc.!!!) Sorry Mimi I have absolutely no experience in family law and I'm not licensed in NY. Good luck with your divorce, I'm sure it's not fun. But I love New Year's in New York and I'm so happy you got to celebrate it this year without your cheating scumbag of a soon-to-be-ex husband!! That is so classless, running away to text OW after kissing you. *shudder* Darn it! Jk! Yes, that was a true classless act. But that was my "true story". Let me tell ya, Karma is a fair lady though. This past NYE he couldn't text, call, kiss anyone!! he was in solitaire confinement 23-hr lock-up for being the true a-hole that he is. While Ms. Mimi was out partying like a ROCK STAR with those who truly love her! Link to post Share on other sites
MimiMe Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Oh man...well my MM is a head of a department here, one of the big partners, and yeah I'll be staying away from the corner offices too! AH HA! That's how you got access to his emails. Link to post Share on other sites
Author HeatherK08 Posted March 12, 2008 Author Share Posted March 12, 2008 I should have been on your discussion board. My parents were crazy evangelical Christians (have I said that on here already? I say it way too much, sorry if it's repetitive) and I am still "leaving" the group in that I am still learning to love and accept myself as not a Christian and not a member of their group, even if they don't. Oh and I forgot to say -- I wish you were my firm's IT person, our computers and software suck. I wish they would completely update *everything*, it's like we're stuck in the 90's or something, *sigh* Well here's a couple links, they might help, one is the one I started, which is a slow board http://forums.delphiforums.com/nycoc/start and another which is very active, it's the main board: http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCdiscussion/start Link to post Share on other sites
Author HeatherK08 Posted March 12, 2008 Author Share Posted March 12, 2008 AH HA! That's how you got access to his emails. I wish! I'm just a trainer, no IT access for me. Link to post Share on other sites
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