Is it good to eat after weight training?

[mike41]

I heard that it's good to eat 30 to 45 minutes after working out.

Is this true?

 

Also, why is it that people recommend eating chicken and fish for protein, but don't mention beef?

 

Are protein drinks worth drinking?

 

What about natural protein drinks? (like from Odwalla)

 

 

Thanks in advance.

[beaker]

Not only is it good to eat after weight training, many people trying to add muscle mass (such as myself) find it absolutely essential. Weight training burns a lot of energy that needs replacing, and you may also require extra protein to help with muscle growth. Obviously what you eat is as important as when -- going to McDonald's after working out would be silly -- but eating a small, lean and healthy meal or drinking a protein shake after a workout would be a very good idea. If you don't refuel somehow there is an excellent chance your body will go into an energy deficit and enter a catabolic state, meaning it will start to burn your own muscle to make more fuel. When you are trying to add muscle, but your body starts burning muscle for fuel... well I'm sure you can see how that might make things difficult.

 

Beef is often not mentioned in the relevant "literature" (as opposed to chicken and fish) because of possible fat and cholesterol. However if you have a lean body type like me there's nothing wrong with beef.

 

Since it's often recommended that anyone trying to gain weight via muscle mass eat 5 or more small meals a day (to avoid entering the catabolic state mentioned earlier), protein shakes are indeed worthwhile as they offer a convenient substitute for a couple of those meals. They're one of the few items in a nutrition store that are actually useful.

[wideawake]

Hey mike41,

 

Here's my routine.

 

1 hour prior to weight training I have a protein shake consisting of approx 44g Whey protein and 40g (1/2 cup) of dry Old Fashioned Oats (raw, the old Quaker stuff.)

 

This provides the essential aminos and low GI carbs for your workout.

 

Right after the workout I have the exact same thing (some people prefer higher GI carbs at this point, i.e., dextrose, table sugar, malto, etc...) but I have a tenedency to put on fat with higher GI carbs, so I stick to oatmeal.

 

Drink this AS SOON AS YOU CAN after you training.

 

One hour or one and a half hours after your shake, have a low fat, balanced meal (i.e., chicken breats and sweet potatoes, brocolli. or tuna, some pasta and a salad...)

 

Your entire system is PRIMED for growth after a weight training sesson, and you need to feed your body after heavy training.

 

Remember EAT TO GROW!

 

I would plan on a daily diet based on the following formula (this is to add muscle in a growth or mass phase)

 

Calories per day = 15 x body weight. Start there and adjust up or down depending on how you personally react.

 

Remember that all calories are NOT created equal. Eat clean healthy calorie dense food. (i.e, chicken, fish, steak, potatoes, sweet potatoes, OATMEAL, flax oil, uncooked olive oil, fish oil, etc...)

 

Good luck bro!

[Ryan]

I heard that it's good to eat 30 to 45 minutes after working out.

Is this true?

 

I would say it is pertinent to eat as soon as possible after training. There are several reasons why...I'll get to those after I address a few points in other people's posts.

 

 

Also, why is it that people recommend eating chicken and fish for protein, but don't mention beef?

 

Chicken and fish will digest somewhat faster. Mostly this is a matter of modern opinion believing that these are somehow healthier than beef. They aren't. Beef is fine.

 

 

Are protein drinks worth drinking?

 

They are ok, but not necessary. You can get the same effect from food at far less of a cost. The value of protein drinks is convenience and somewhat faster digestion, but there's nothing magical in them that will make a big impact on your training.

 

 

Now for some clarifications regarding other things people have said....

 

Weight training burns a lot of energy that needs replacing

 

Weight training is not particularly calorically demanding...since no activity really is. For a training session of an hour or less (which it should be) done to a high degree of intensity (which it also should be), a typical male might be set back a few hundred calories.

 

 

If you don't refuel somehow there is an excellent chance your body will go into an energy deficit and enter a catabolic state, meaning it will start to burn your own muscle to make more fuel. When you are trying to add muscle, but your body starts burning muscle for fuel... well I'm sure you can see how that might make things difficult.

 

I'd like to point out that one's body is necessarily in a catabolic state after a training session. Weight training is a profound stressor (when done right), which creates the hormonal situation of protein breakdown. This is one reason you don't want to train very long or very often.

 

 

I have a tenedency to put on fat with higher GI carbs

 

This is a little misleading....higher glycemic index carbohydrates do not inherently lead to bodyfat increases - caloric surplus does.

 

 

 

That all being said, here's some elaboration on what to keep in mind for post-training nutrition.

 

The optimal immediate feeding would be one of protein, simple sugars, and relatively little fat. The protein is fairly obvious - you want to have it available for muscular uptake. Simple sugars are valuable for two reasons. First, muscle tissue will be replenishing expended glycogen by uptake of sugars...there is some thought that presence of sugars with proteins promotes the protein uptake during the sugar uptake process. Second, the simple sugars help regulate down the catabolic hormone levels. Minimal fat is preferable because high fat content tends to slow digestion.

 

After that....eat frequently and decently. Do not get caught up in having heaps of protein. The amount of protein required to build muscle tissue is pretty low. The caloric requirements are more significant. Decently means generally avoiding the heavily processed foods....namely fast food, frozen crap, and anything hydrogenated. Everything else is fair game, so find things you like to eat.

[mike41]

thank you very much ryan.

[wideawake]

Originally posted by Ryan

Weight training is not particularly calorically demanding...since no activity really is. For a training session of an hour or less (which it should be) done to a high degree of intensity (which it also should be), a typical male might be set back a few hundred calories.

 

You don't consider 400-500 calories as 'demanding'? When most of us will be on a 2200-3000 calorie/day diet? That's almost 1/5 of your daily intake?

 

 

I'd like to point out that one's body is necessarily in a catabolic state after a training session. Weight training is a profound stressor (when done right), which creates the hormonal situation of protein breakdown. This is one reason you don't want to train very long or very often.

 

Please explain your reason on why a person would "necessarily be in a catabolic state after training"??? From a body composition perspective, one would want to decrease muscle catabolism as much as possible, and rely on hypertrophy to provide the proper amounts of stress that then (through various hormonal pathways) leads to recovery and hence increased muscle mass or body comp percentage. I'm not sure what metabolic process you're referring to when you wish to create a catabolic state!

 

 

 

 

This is a little misleading....higher glycemic index carbohydrates do not inherently lead to bodyfat increases - caloric surplus does.

 

Well....let's take this example.

 

A person eats 2000 kcals of dextros and 2000 kcals of a balanced diet. The cals are exactly the same, does body composition stay exactly the same with the 2000 kcals of dextrose as it would with 2000 kcals of a balance of p/c/f??

 

Bottom line is that higer GI carbs provide an much higher insulegenic response and provide a perfect enviroment for adipose tissue storage and enhancement. Lower GI carbs do not provide even close to the same insulin response. Your logic is faulty by stating the all calories are created equal and that lipoysis can only begin in a calories surplus. Your very wrong bro.

 

 

 

Second, the simple sugars help regulate down the catabolic hormone levels

 

Hmmmm......so we don't want a catabolic state now? Sweet...

[Ryan]

You don't consider 400-500 calories as 'demanding'? When most of us will be on a 2200-3000 calorie/day diet? That's almost 1/5 of your daily intake?

 

You'd have to be a pretty large individual to expend 400-500 calories in one proper training session (an hour or less). People consuming in the 2-3k range would probably be set back 200-300 calories tops.

 

Please explain your reason on why a person would "necessarily be in a catabolic state after training"???

 

Because it is a profound stressor, just like I said.

 

From a body composition perspective, one would want to decrease muscle catabolism as much as possible

 

Absolutely.

 

and rely on hypertrophy to provide the proper amounts of stress that then (through various hormonal pathways) leads to recovery and hence increased muscle mass or body comp percentage.

 

Hypertrophy is not a stressor. It is an adaptation to stress.

 

I'm not sure what metabolic process you're referring to when you wish to create a catabolic state!

 

I don't want to create a catabolic state, but my desire is irrelevant. It's not a matter of choice; it is a side effect of the training...hence the term necessarily.

 

A person eats 2000 kcals of dextros and 2000 kcals of a balanced diet. The cals are exactly the same, does body composition stay exactly the same with the 2000 kcals of dextrose as it would with 2000 kcals of a balance of p/c/f??

 

Show me someone who lives on 2000 calories of dextrose and we'll discuss it. Until then, I don't care to analyze straw man fallacies.

 

 

Bottom line is that higer GI carbs provide an much higher insulegenic response and provide a perfect enviroment for adipose tissue storage and enhancement.

 

I agree that glycemic index can be an indicator of insulin response...and insulin is an anabolic hormone.

 

 

Your logic is faulty by stating the all calories are created equal and that lipoysis can only begin in a calories surplus.

 

I believe you meant lipogenesis.

I also never stated that all calories are created equal. I'm stating that the human body must adhere to the laws of thermodynamics. If you consume less than your body expends, you will break down body tissues for energy. If you consume more than your body expends, you will generate body tissues. Which tissues and how much depends mainly on the magnitude of surplus/deficit and the stressors acting on the body.

[beaker]

I don't pretend to know much of anything in the field of exercise physiology, but there are a couple of points I'm interested in...

 

First, I don't think the idea that sugars push body composition towards fat storage more "sharply" than a balanced diet is the slightest bit controversial... dismissing that example as a "straw man falacy" seems either needlessly provocative or an unfortunate choice of words. There are thousands of studies that show how a large intake of simple sugars causes a much sharper insulin spike than a balanced diet (and a correspondingly lower insulin spike), and a sharp insulin spike + lots of blood sugar is certain to lead to lipogenesis in a normal person. The 2000 calories of dextrose example is extreme but obviously reflecting that... I don't understand the controversy.

 

Second, I'm curious as to why insulin is considered an anabolic hormone. I'm certainly not saying it isn't, just that I've never heard it referred to in that manner before. Is it because it leads to lipogenesis? A hormone like testosterone is anabolic because it causes signal cascades within receptive cells that directly lead to many anabolic activities. Does insulin do the same, or is a different definition of anabolic being used? (like "insulin is necessary for anabolic activities to take place"... which implies it's not anabolic itself) The reason I ask is that I did a short internet search to try and answer my own question, and the only references to insulin anabolic activity tended to be in articles in muscle magazines and advertising for fitness supplements. You know, the kind that use words like "ripped" and "huge" and "shredded" 50 times per page... you can understand how that doesn't fill me with confidence regarding the science. However, I freely acknowledge that a more detailed search of the literature would be necessary to get a real answer, and I can't be bothered to do it. I'm wondering if anyone knows the answer and can tell me the easy way.

 

P.S. I am a huge nerd.

[Ryan]

I don't think the idea that sugars push body composition towards fat storage more "sharply" than a balanced diet is the slightest bit controversial

 

It's not controversial. It's irrelevant.

 

dismissing that example as a "straw man falacy" seems either needlessly provocative or an unfortunate choice of words.

 

It is a specific choice of words. A straw man fallacy is the construction of a weaker argument for the purpose of easily refuting it. My position was never that people should consume a diet entirely or largely consisting of simple sugars.

 

There are thousands of studies that show how a large intake of simple sugars causes a much sharper insulin spike than a balanced diet (and a correspondingly lower insulin spike), and a sharp insulin spike + lots of blood sugar is certain to lead to lipogenesis in a normal person.

 

Thousands?

Once again, my position is not stating otherwise. Any amount of unused calories in the blood stream will be turned into bodyfat. You just have to maintain that surplus on a larger scale to maintain the bodyfat.

 

Second, I'm curious as to why insulin is considered an anabolic hormone.

 

Because it acts as a catalyst for the production of bodily tissues....that is what anabolic means. Insulin functions in protein synthesis, if you want to narrow the scope to strictly that. Obviously it is not the only active hormone.

 

 

...the only references to insulin anabolic activity tended to be in articles in muscle magazines and advertising for fitness supplements. You know, the kind that use words like "ripped" and "huge" and "shredded" 50 times per page...

 

Definitely not where I gather any of my information.

[mike41]

Earlier I said "thank you very much ryan" what I meant was "Thank you very much everybody who responded"

 

If I want to build muscle and lose fat, should I first focus on gaining muscle so that simply having muscle would burn more calories all day?

 

It was mentioned here that sometimes the body can burn muscle tissue, instead of fat.

Why would my body burn its own muscle, instead of burning fat?

 

Would it be wise to drink soda after working out, since it has lots of simple sugar? What about drinking orange juice or something with honey?

 

And, Ryan, if you don't mind me asking, what do you usually eat (and drink) after working out?

[Ryan]

If I want to build muscle and lose fat, should I first focus on gaining muscle so that simply having muscle would burn more calories all day?

 

I assume you don't mean doing both at the same time....since it's pretty much impossible to do (naturally). If you aren't significantly overweight and/or are a new trainee, your focus should be on progressing in your training and eating plenty....which will lead to muscle gain. As you mentioned, each pound of that muscle tissue will contribute to your resting metabolic level by 30-50 calories per day.

 

Once you've put in a good period of progress (newbies can often go 6-12 months, more seasoned lifters are usually good for 2-3), you'll have accumulated both muscle and fat tissue. This is probably a good time to take 4-6 weeks to diet off the added fat. This sort of cyclical pattern tends to work well in your first couple years of training...eventually growth is going to taper off but strength gains won't. At that point, you're looking at milder levels of bulk/diet sessions....you won't be fluctuating in weight so much.

 

Why would my body burn its own muscle, instead of burning fat?

 

Because the human body reacts as necessary for immediate survival. Bodyfat is an emergency energy store, so there's an inherent resistance to shedding it....your body has no knowledge of if/when it will feed again. On the other hand, muscle tissue is not necessary in large quantity. Even an untrained individual can go through a typical day and not use much of his/her muscle. However, that oft-unused muscle tissue is metabolically demanding...it requires calories just to exist (as outlined above). The body sees muscle tissue as an inefficient source of energy when compared to bodyfat, so it has no inherent reason to maintain it.

 

When stressed, the body increases the levels of a hormone called cortisol. Cortisol breaks down proteins to be sent to the liver and converted to sugar. It is a quick, inefficient way for the body to derive energy under stress. Weight training is a stressor....a profound one when done properly. You can't prevent this from happening....you can just limit its scope by training briefly, infrequently, and eating. If one trains properly and eats at least maintenance levels, you won't have a problem. Excessive training and/or reduced calorie situations will create some degree of cannibalization, which you may have to tolerate to achieve other ends.

 

Would it be wise to drink soda after working out, since it has lots of simple sugar? What about drinking orange juice or something with honey?

 

It's purely a matter of personal preference. If you've been drinking soda all day for the past week....might be time to change it up. Whatever fits into your generally healthy diet is fine.

 

 

And, Ryan, if you don't mind me asking, what do you usually eat (and drink) after working out?

 

You are more than welcome to ask me anything specific about my personal diet and training habits. Some things I won't discuss because they are irrelevant; if you asked me how much I bench, I would not discuss it...partially because I don't bench, but mainly because my training weights are not indicative of what anyone else should be doing.

 

As for what I eat....I eat pretty much anything I want. My food options are generally fresh sources, so I try to get a good amount of calories. I generally pound it down with some juice and a bunch of water. But hey...that's me. Your genetics may require you to be more particular.