contemplating an affair with a mm/mw?

[nadiaj2727]

If I learned anything from years of cheating and helping others cheat by being OW its this:

 

I don't think affairs are wrong just from a morality or belief standpoint. I think they are wrong because having an affair and being an accessory to the affair hurts another person on so many internal levels independently of any belief system or set of morals. The hurt you get from being betrayed and lied to goes deeper than any belief system or morals.

 

It hurts on a purely human level, down to the very core. That is why OW/OM catch so much flack - because they knowingly and willingly help to inflict pain on another person. A pain that no amount of justifications, explanations or denials will touch.

 

I hear plenty of OW/OM saying they don't believe in monogamy, and those same people do a complete 180 when OOW or OOM comes into the picture.

 

Why? Because regardless of whether you believe in monogamy or not - being betrayed by someone you love and trust hurts, and when you are an accessory to that hurt - of course you are going to be hated regardless of how you justify what you did.

 

 

Wow this is an amazing post, I completely agree. The reason I stopped being an OW had as much to do with humanist reasons as with moral reasons. I refuse to hurt anyone else like that again -- and it hurt me, too. Everyone gets hurt in an affair.

 

LB I am just going to shut up and let your posts talk for me, because you say everything I feel but much more eloquently and amazingly. Thank you for this!!! You are inspirational and you give me hope (not false hope LOL) about the human race.

[OpenBook]

Oh I wouldn't dream of helping people break their marriage vowels. It's the consonants I go after.

[nadiaj2727]

Oh I wouldn't dream of helping people break their marriage vowels. It's the consonants I go after.

 

Oh that's mature.

[Jess-Belle]

But, whatever, I am wasting my breath. It's obviously pointless to try to explain respect to people who think it's okay to sleep with someone else's committed partner.

 

Yeah but they're not committed because they're not really respecting their marriage vows by looking for an AP or the wife isn't being a perfect Suzy Homemaker/freak in the bedroom, blahbity blah blah...

 

I don't know about you nadia but I remember when I was an OW, I was like a spoiled child who simply would NOT listen to anything other than what I wanted to hear, and I had about a jillion different rationalizations that explained away just about anything anyone could say. Looking back on it I would say it was literally like being in some sort of trance.

 

So, as you were saying, waste of breath...

[nadiaj2727]

Yeah but they're not committed because they're not really respecting their marriage vows by looking for an AP or the wife isn't being a perfect Suzy Homemaker/freak in the bedroom, blahbity blah blah...

 

I don't know about you nadia but I remember when I was an OW, I was like a spoiled child who simply would NOT listen to anything other than what I wanted to hear, and I had about a jillion different rationalizations that explained away just about anything anyone could say. Looking back on it I would say it was literally like being in some sort of trance.

 

So, as you were saying, waste of breath...

 

Yeah I love all the "excuses" people give for cheating, it makes me laugh. Now people are giving OTHER people excuses to help other people cheat on their spouses, that really cracks me up!

 

Like, "Well, it was *okay* for me to do that because other people did this." Yeah that argument didn't fly on the first grade playground and it doesn't fly now, regardless of how many times they try. I don't understand how some people can seriously think that one person's wrong actions make their wrong actions okay.

 

I think self-justifications only go so far, and then you are left looking into someone who does whatever they want and thinks it's okay. Just like a first grader who never learned to respect others. At some point you have to stop and ask yourself, am I a good person or not? Do I respect other people or not?

 

(And excuse me Openbook if I am mixing up my words as I don't have time to edit this, I hope you're okay with that and all).

 

I agree completely Jess-Belle about how I was as an OW and how I am now. I don't know your story but it sounds like you and I are so much alike. I have only begun to realize what was wrong inside of me that made me think I was ENTITLED to cheat on my ex-fiance and help a married man cheat on his wife (and later break up with my ex-fiance to go live in la la land with xMM... I swear that people who cheat, myself included, delude themselves into making the absolute worst decisions possible, that hurt not only other people but themselves). I made excuses too and I made every justfication in the book. I finally had to take a good hard look at myself and realize that I was unhappy inside, and my cheating was just an escape from myself. I was selfish, insecure, and craved attention and validation from a guy who was just as bad off as I was. Now I look to myself for true fulfillment of my own needs and I will never again date anyone in a relationship. I truly believe that cheaters are broken and need to be fixed before they can ever be good long-term partners. Obviously some here disagree. Oh well, I won't date them. (Yeah I'm sure they are all lining up to date me LOL... I know I'm not their type because I don't lie, cheat or steal anymore and make excuses and brag about my horrible behavior. Nor did I swear to them that I never lie to them... only to my spouse... and that's only because she's absolutely horrible to me and she made me marry her and I'm a poor victim who *has* to cheat to be happy... etc. etc. etc.)

[Jess-Belle]

Yeah I love all the "excuses" people give for cheating, it makes me laugh. Now people are giving OTHER people excuses to help other people cheat on their spouses, that really cracks me up!

 

Like, "Well, it was *okay* for me to do that because other people did this." Yeah that argument didn't fly on the first grade playground and it doesn't fly now, regardless of how many times they try. I don't understand how some people can seriously think that one person's wrong actions make their wrong actions okay.

 

I just recall being a very unfeeling person. I was literally shut off to the world, numb. It was my escape from being so hurt and jaded in the past. It seems absurd now, but I remember it well.

 

I think self-justifications only go so far, and then you are left looking into someone who does whatever they want and thinks it's okay. Just like a first grader who never learned to respect others. At some point you have to stop and ask yourself, am I a good person or not? Do I respect other people or not?

 

Yes... I feel fortunate that I awakened to this. It was indeed a blessing, even if it came in the form of anguish.

 

I agree completely Jess-Belle about how I was as an OW and how I am now. I don't know your story but it sounds like you and I are so much alike. I have only begun to realize what was wrong inside of me that made me think I was ENTITLED to cheat on my ex-fiance and help a married man cheat on his wife (and later break up with my ex-fiance to go live in la la land with xMM... I swear that people who cheat, myself included, delude themselves into making the absolute worst decisions possible, that hurt not only other people but themselves). I made excuses too and I made every justfication in the book. I finally had to take a good hard look at myself and realize that I was unhappy inside, and my cheating was just an escape from myself. I was selfish, insecure, and craved attention and validation from a guy who was just as bad off as I was. Now I look to myself for true fulfillment of my own needs and I will never again date anyone in a relationship. I truly believe that cheaters are broken and need to be fixed before they can ever be good long-term partners. Obviously some here disagree. Oh well, I won't date them. (Yeah I'm sure they are all lining up to date me LOL... I know I'm not their type because I don't lie, cheat or steal anymore and make excuses and brag about my horrible behavior. Nor did I swear to them that I never lie to them... only to my spouse... and that's only because she's absolutely horrible to me and she made me marry her and I'm a poor victim who *has* to cheat to be happy... etc. etc. etc.)

 

Yes, and it feels amazing to finally see the light that way, doesn't it?

 

I don't know your exact story either... mine did end with my getting mowed down and peeled out on by the karma bus... it's been a bitter pill to swallow, but it is far better than the private hell I had created for myself as an OW and in the other ways in which I had been leading my life!

[Jess-Belle]

Don't hold your breath waiting.

 

I see that :lmao:

[Jess-Belle]

Deja VU, man!!! That sounds like such a familiar refrain!

 

If only they could break the trance-like state, they might be able to break, also, the hold these MM have over them and get their lives back.

 

I feel fortunate that I was able to do so.

Many years ago, I became involved with a very physically and emotionally abusive man. It lasted six months. After that, my tolerance for putting up with crap was severely diminished.

So, in the situation with the MM, it didn't take long for me to snap. He revealed he'd still been having sex with his wife, after he had been desperately trying to manipulate me into committing to him 100%. That was enough to galvanize me. Sadly, for many, it isn't.

[roxistar]

If you dont want to be married, get a divorce. And like I said before, having an affair is wrong and we should all know this by now. If it were ok, there would be no marriage counseling and broken hearts. Sure everyone would like to think that marriages can work, and for a lot of people, they do. But when you take those vows and cant live up to them, It is time for the marriage to end. Thus leading up to my point that being married and having an affair is wrong... End the marriage and than do as you wish . Dont string a husband or wife along and lie to them. Worse, dont lie to a family. Staying in it for the kids is horrible. Marriage is supposed to be sacred lets not forget that. Am I trying to force my beliefs on everyone? NO. Just stating the facts. Marriage is what it is. We ALL know what it is whether we agree with it or not. If you dont agree with it, or cannot live up to it, than dont participate. Simple as that.

[roxistar]

Having an open relationship in your marriage is ok, because it is a shared decision where both partners know. When spouses lie to each other about sleeping or having a relationship with someone else, that is what is wrong.

[Lookingforward]

Oh that's mature.

 

lol, lighten up - it was funny:bunny:

[Lookingforward]

If a MP is disrespecting their M by cheating, I find it very hard to have any respect for the sanctity of the M myself. quote]

 

Yup, exactly - in my case the W cheated on the MM I had an R with first, he tried to live with that for a few years then moved out, which is when I met him.

 

Okay, technically he was still married but was I supposed to respect a M SHE didn't ?

[Jess-Belle]

Yup, exactly - in my case the W cheated on the MM I had an R with first, he tried to live with that for a few years then moved out, which is when I met him.

 

Okay, technically he was still married but was I supposed to respect a M SHE didn't ?

 

Out of interest Looking, what happened then? Did he go back?

 

I don't know that you're interested in what I've got to say, but the way you described your situation kind of sounds like what happened in mine. I'm not married yet, but when the whole PA happened with my bf, our relationship was in a really bad, bad state. I hadn't treated him well (as you probably saw in my post where I held him at arm's length for 2 years), and he hadn't treated me in the best of ways either. You could say neither of us had been respecting what it means to be in a committed relationship. When this whole thing happened, to be honest, I think both of us were thinking our relationship was going to end. But then here's the thing... it didn't. We decided to work things out. But by then it was too late.

 

My point is, at what point exactly is the OP granted the right to hang around like a vulture, picking at the relationship and hoping and waiting for it to die? If I ever felt this was fair or logical, after it happened to me, I understood how I had been mistaken.

 

Incidentally, the OW in my situation wasn't exactly the classic OW. I still hold her accountable for her share because she had every reason to know I was still in my bf's life. Of course the lines are a lot blurrier since we're not married, and I think somewhere along the lines, through wishful thinking, omissions and misunderstandings, she got the impression that he and I were no longer involved (something a la "my MM and his wife never have sex anymore" thinking that I, and many OW, are familiar with). Of course, nothing could have been further from the truth. He used her like a blowup doll a couple of times and then ditched her, and then when she showed up at his place one day after that and I was there, he threw her under the bus faster than you can blink. And not only did she have the pleasure of finding me in his bed, but he all but called her a disease-ridden whore to her face right in front of me. Just another classic example of why it isn't a good idea to get involved with someone who has someone in their life, no matter how "bad" you get the impression that their relationship is.

 

I don't expect you to understand, but I just wanted to share anyway, for all to read.

[Lookingforward]

Yes, he went back , whether for good or until it doesn't work out again, who knows.

[Jess-Belle]

Yes, he went back , whether for good or until it doesn't work out again, who knows.

 

Rough. Be well.

[OWoman]

If a MP is disrespecting their M by cheating, I find it very hard to have any respect for the sanctity of the M myself.

 

Yup, exactly - in my case the W cheated on the MM I had an R with first, he tried to live with that for a few years then moved out, which is when I met him.

 

Okay, technically he was still married but was I supposed to respect a M SHE didn't ?

 

In my case, the W had cheated on her H with MM (who was her unknowing OM). She eventually Dd her H and married her OM. Am I to believe she respected the sanctity of marriage when she herself was a CS? Frankly, I think she has no grounds to claim any moral high ground on that one - especially when throughout the M she told MM she wasn't interested in him being faithful, but in being loyal. So were she to claim subsequently that I dissed her M by having a R with MM, I'd call her a hypocrite of grand proportions. I don't see any respect for "the sanctity of M" there from ANY of the players, least of all the two people directly involved in it who notionally made some kind of undertaking to respect it.

[Lookingforward]

Frankly, I think she has no grounds to claim any moral high ground on that

 

Amazingly though the Ws in these cases seem to do just that and I find it hysterically funny as well as hypocritical and a little sad that their self delusion is so well entrenched.

 

If the OW hadn't come along things would have been just fine and dandy apparently.

 

hah!

[Jess-Belle]

Amazingly though the Ws in these cases seem to do just that and I find it hysterically funny as well as hypocritical and a little sad that their self delusion is so well entrenched.

 

If the OW hadn't come along things would have been just fine and dandy apparently.

 

hah!

 

What goes on in someone's relationship is none of an OW's business

[Lookingforward]

I wasn't 'interfering' in their relationship, that was between them plus he had already moved OUT

 

She wasn't too worried about that until I turned up

[Jess-Belle]

I wasn't 'interfering' in their relationship, that was between them plus he had already moved OUT

 

Their relationship wasn't over, as you now have blatant proof of, so yes, your presence was interference by nature.

 

She wasn't too worried about that until I turned up

 

Because in the eyes of anyone whose relationship isn't over, you weren't supposed to.

[OWoman]

What goes on in someone's relationship is none of an OW's business

 

That's not what the MM thinks, or he wouldn't involve her.

 

So, 50% of the MPs agree, and 50% don't. Does the casting vote then go to the OW?

[Jess-Belle]

That's not what the MM thinks, or he wouldn't involve her.

 

Except, of course, once she's fulfilled her use and gets left in the wake like an irrelevant bit of fluff while he goes back to work on the marriage.

[OWoman]

Except, of course, once she's fulfilled her use and gets left in the wake like an irrelevant bit of fluff while he goes back to work on the marriage.

 

Sorry that that happened to you. Better luck next time.

[Lookingforward]

Sorry that that happened to you. Better luck next time.

 

I think Jess was directing that at moi

 

She is determined to make his decision to move out MY fault it seems.

 

Jess, as I'd say to any BS, the women you are posting to here are not YOUR OW, so it's misdirected IMHO

[Jess-Belle]

Sorry that that happened to you. Better luck next time.

 

Nice attempted pot-shot, but that wasn't how my ending went. Want to know? Got some popcorn? Here it is:

 

So as I mentioned in another thread, finding out MM was still having sex with his wife, while desperately trying every manipulative means possible to have me allll to himself, disgusted me beyond all reason. It was the hypocrisy that did it really. In the blink of an eye I went from complacent OW to every MM's worst nightmare. I texted his wife, whose mobile number I had snagged from MM's mobile a month or two earlier (in preparation for a scenario just like this one) and said "your H has been cheating on you with me for x months, send me your e-mail address and I'll give you proof." So she did, and I forwarded to her the most graphic, sugar-and-lust overloaded emails I had amassed from MM over those months, you know, the same ones I used to look at in the lonely mornings and nights when I wanted to get some butterflies in my tummy. LOL, the poor dolt didn't even believe that I had told his wife. I could hear his mobile ringing off the hook in the background, and he was ignoring it because he was on his office phone with me, trying to sweet talk me back into relations with him. When he finally realized I was telling him the truth, he hung up on me. I didn't hear from him for a week.

 

A week later he called me practically in tears, begging me to give him another chance. I was through with him, but to prove to myself I was right about him, I decided to try an experiment: see how far his "love" went now that I wasn't going to fall for any of his b.s. Sure enough, it became obvious that he was just trying to see which one of us, me or his wife, was going to take him back with the least amount of problems. Within 3 days we got into a huge argument, and he e-mailed me a ridiculous NC letter, copying his wife. I of course responded, copying his wife as well, with enough venom to put a rattlesnake in awe.

 

His poor wife, caught in the middle of our e-mail slag fest. You know, that woman never once tried to contact me, find me or anything. I never heard from her. A true class act, that one.

 

So that was that, for another month and a half. Suddenly, on my birthday, I received a delivery of roses and chocolates. They were from MM, with a note that said "Happy Birthday My Princess". I did not respond. Four days later he called me, again trying to get me to meet up with him for drinks. I called him every name under the sun and told him to fxck off. That was the last time I heard from him.

 

According to the court website, his wife filed for divorce almost immediately after DDay. It was finalized two months later.

 

The End.