Dumb argument over dead dog...

[luvstarved]

Had a good example of the poor communication in my M this morning and would appreciate feedback. I am not trying to be "right", I am trying to be objective and learn and improve myself.

 

When I met H he had an 8 year old dog. 8 years later, the dog was able to move around fine but was very nervous type and soiled the floor a lot...say, 3 times a week. H was POed about it and wanted to have dog put to sleep. I talked him out of it several times, saying the dog was old and did not have long anyway and was not suffering.

 

I went to visit my mother for a few days and on way home from airport, H informed me that he had the dog put to sleep while I was gone. I was shocked and said something like, I can't believe you did that, I wish you had given me a chance to talk you out of it, I would not have done that, I wish you would have at least told me, etc. I did not go on and on about it, just reacted at the moment and later said I still disagreed with putting the dog down but conceded it was his dog and what was done was done and moved on.

 

Fast forward to today. For some reason, daughter brought up the dog. We were talking about what a nervous nelly he had been. Then H comes in room and soon after she said something about how he had KILLED the dog. I NEVER said anything so blunt like that, but it is possible that she thought that based on my original disagreement.

 

Anyway, here is the sticking point. My H, in front of daughter, tells me that I need to tell her that it had been necessary to put down the dog, tells me that I need to agree with and support him and that everyone else he had talked to agreed that he should have put down the dog. Daughter says again that he killed the dog and she goes into her room, mildly upset.

 

Now, I did not know what to say. H gets angry that I am being unsupportive and suggests that I go tell daughter how he did the right thing. He leaves the room for a minute, when he returns I tell him that when he tells me in front of daughter that I need to agree with him, then it does not mean anything for me at that point to agree with him, as it comes across as doing what I am told rather than actually agreeing and therefore removes the opportunity to show any real support.

 

He goes on about how most people he talked to agreed with him and that it "really bothers him" that I "think the way" I do and that I did not jump right in to support him.

 

Truth is, I was going to say something...about how he had done what he felt was right and it was not her place to question him, etc but I could not even get that out of my mouth before he was saying "tell her I did the right thing, tell her the dog was incontinent " etc...and then turning it around to me being unsupportive and him getting angry. I mean, that was his IMMEDIATE response to her saying he killed the dog...I literally had no chance to say anything first.

 

I told him that the dog was his and he had a right to do what he did, but submitted that "most people" would not have done this deed behind their spouse's back either. I told him that I had disagreed with putting the dog down because I would only do so if the animal itself were suffering and my opinion was that this dog had not been. But that at the time and to this day I acknowledged that it was his dog and his decision and had never dwelled on it since. So, WTF?

 

I told him that I resented his implication that the fact that I disagreed with him meant that there was something "wrong" with my thinking and that he felt he had a right to tell me what I "should" think or say.

 

Then he said something like "you're unbelieveable, anyone else would just agree with me" and I said that I wanted a relationship based on open communication, honesty and mutual respect, but if he just wanted me to knee-jerkily agree with him, then I would attempt to proceed accordingly.

 

That was pretty much the end of the conversation as he was about to leave the house anyway...

 

Now, I have actually read somewhere recently in a relationship book that you ARE supposed to just knee-jerkily agree at times...for the greater good or whatever. I DO sometimes...like if a coworker pisses him off or it is a little decision that I think he feels more strongly about than I do...but when I am PRESSED for an opinion and then TOLD what it is supposed to be...well, I just don't have it in me.

 

Any thoughts or suggestions?? I really am trying to make my M work.

[pricillia]

How can you bew supportive toward your husband he did this without consulting you... pets are like children and you nor your daughter had a chance to say goodbye...

 

Was the dog suffering.. prob not did you all take the dog to the vet to try to fix the problem... prob not instead he took a life without even thinking about it and did it behind your back...

 

I can not believe that they even put the dog down there must be some type of law regarding consent from all involved.

 

I would have taken the dog from you, there are people out there that would have adopted the dog...

 

The poor dog he or she must have been so scared...

 

This breaks my heart..

 

It seems like your huband is trying to control things and is saying I made this decision and there is nothing you can do about it and you should support me even if it was wrong...

[Lizzie60]

He was disrespectful to you and your daughter...

 

I would agree that it was probably better for the dog to be put to sleep but he didn't do it the proper way.

 

He should have talked to your daughter and explained to her that this was the best thing to do.. so that she could have done her 'goodbyes' to him..

 

He was rude...

[luvstarved]

Just to clarify, I had gone to my mother's on my own to do "parental maintenance"...so daughter had been home and knew about it, I guess...I wasn't here to get the details and once it was over nobody wanted to explain to me how it went down because that was taken as me attacking, etc so I let it go.

 

And, it happened a few years ago, so that it even being brought up at this point seems kind of dumb...

 

If he had told me on the phone while I was at my mother's I might have been able to process it and be more supportive, but he hit me with it in car in front of daughter and so I just had the natural "WHAT?" reaction. I suppose it would have been better if I had just said "yeah, poor dog, you did the right thing, though" but...it's hard to do the optimal thing when you are blindsided...

[SpanksTheMonkey]

Well for me your screen name says it all Luvstarved its obvious your not a happy women sorry to say.

 

It sounds like hes a bit of a control freak and expects you to conform to it has it always been like this from the start?

 

I think he got rid of the dog not so much because it was suffering as it was now in his way and not ideal any more.

 

And the peeing on the floor was a prob for him that to me speaks volumes about how he sees the world and others in it.

 

Things that don't go right he just gets rid of rather then try to fix/help them.

 

I bet the dog could have been helped if he really wanted to.

 

Why a vet put down a clearly non suffering animal is beyond me honestly.

 

The probs you guys are going thu are beyond any advice you can get here already you guys should try some marriage counseling quick!

[carhill]

And, it happened a few years ago, so that it even being brought up at this point seems kind of dumb...

 

Wow, talk about dredging up the past.....

 

Dead horse here, but "pick your battles" comes to mind...

[OWoman]

I think the way people treat animals says a lot about the kind of people they are, and they way they will treat other people too. Anyone who "gets rid" of an animal for convenience will be at risk of "getting rid" of people they find inconvenient too. It's illegal to have a person put down, but there are other ways of chasing them out of one's life. As his behaviour shows.

 

Why would you want to be with such a heartless person? Is he abusive in other ways - or is that still to follow?

[carhill]

It appears the animal was 16 years old and was euthanized humanely (by a vet). Someone doesn't keep a dog for 16 (assuming H had it since a puppy) years by abusing it. Sometimes someone has to do what has to be done. The old adage of asking forgiveness rather than permission could apply. We only know one side.

[whichwayisup]

His decision affected ALL of you and HE is in the wrong to have not sat the whole family down and discussed it - Or atleast let everyone know this was the game plan.

 

Was the dog suffering and in pain? If yes, then he did the right thing - Though he still should have spoken to you about it beforehand. IF no, then he was completely wrong to make that choice.

 

I feel for you and the daughter, pets are part of the family and it wasn't just "his" dog.

[whichwayisup]

This also isn't just about the dog - Fact that he made a choice like that and waited until you weren't there, is just disrespectful. Yet, he expects you to back him up, infront of his daughter. (is she your daughter with him or step daughter?) Has he made big decisions without talking to you, or is this the first time that's happened?

 

There's more going on, you two need to talk.

[Storyrider]

I disagree with most of the other posters on this one. Your H was asking you to help him save face with your daughter, who was making a negative moral judgement about him as a bad guy. He viewed your silence as a tacit agreement with your daughter's assessment.

 

The fight about whether or not he should have told you before putting the dog down, IMO, should only be conducted out of earshot of daughter. I agree that he should have told you, but that is not the point.

 

Did you want your daughter on "your side" or to view your H. negatively? I'm thinking/hoping you did not.

 

The problems that would arise from your daughter viewing your H as a "dog killer" outweigh any considerations about your feelings, or his. If your daughter carried that impression of her dad, it would cause problems for her, and it would undermine his authority as a parent. It needed to be smoothed over right away, so I understand why he reacted immediately.

Edited March 2, 2008 by Storyrider

[Enema]

^^ completely agree with Storyrider.

 

It's not about what he did with the dog anymore. Though I think he was right there too.

 

It's about you undermining his authority and image in his daughters eyes. The respect for parents should be the #1 priority but your silence was damning.

[Mr. Lucky]

^^ completely agree with Storyrider.

 

It's not about what he did with the dog anymore. Though I think he was right there too.

 

It's about you undermining his authority and image in his daughters eyes. The respect for parents should be the #1 priority but your silence was damning.

Tough one but I think I agree. Luvstarved, you were really caught between a rock and a hard place but sometimes you have to look at the greater good. In this case, I think you should have erred in the direction of supporting your H since your daughter's statements were plainly off base.

 

You probably could have avoided this fight completely had you gone to your daughter right away and given her your "he did what he thought was right" input. Under those circumstances, I'd want my wife to defend me...

 

Mr. Lucky

[luvstarved]

Hi,

 

I might not have made the point of conflict clear...it was not about who was "right" about the dog.

 

The part I have trouble with is when he tells me what to think and say in front of daughter and then conveys contempt toward me when I do not comply. Again in front of her.

 

I have many times defended him to daughter esp over his yelling about things. Told her that he just gets nervous, loves her, means well, etc.

I was even going to defend him here, to the point of saying "he did what he thought was right", "you have no right to talk to him that way", etc. But point was, as soon as the words were out of HER mouth, he immediately turned to me and more or less left it to ME to make HIS argument altogether, not just defend him. Shouldn't he have first told her why he did it, or defended himself, and maybe expected me to join in???

 

Later we talked, and I said in retrospect, that things would have gone better about the dog if he had not told me about it in front of her, thus giving me time to reflect and not have the "What?" reaction. He said he could have handled it better too...but still was on the sticking point about me not defending him. I again opined that I was not really given a chance.

 

Anyway, our daughter shows him nearly zero respect herself and I have tried in many ways to support him on that...most of the time, when I call her on it, he gets mad at ME and tells me that "she is just tired", "it's ok", "she probably does not feel well", etc. In public, she pushes him around verbally to the point of strangers staring, shaking their heads, etc. So I feel kind of damned if I do, damned if I don't.

 

When he and I argue, he will inappropriately bring her into it...asking who she thinks is right, and if she says me, he will say it is only because she is afraid of bruising my fragile psyche...if she says him then he will say see how insightful she is. If it gets really heated,he will tell her that I am "sick" and "disturbed" and that he doesn't want her to go grow up to be as messed up as her mother, etc.

 

So, he wants respect and support and I am more than game. But it does go both ways.

 

My fear is her being raised in same pattern as him, told they are the best, not having to do anything for themselves, being told they are the "boss"...this comes from H and MIL, who watches daughter as much as she can. They DO mean well, but the MO of speaking in what I consider a verbally abuse way seems to be getting passed down, and it really bothers me. DD tries it with me once in a while, but does not get away with it...

 

The bottom line for me is, he wants respect from me and from daughter and he wants me to make it happen in both cases. But only when he wants me to make it happen, otherwise he wants me to stay out of it...because he does not want her to be upset by being called on her behavior, unless he wants her called on it that time...and then he wants me to call her on it, not himself...but only if I do it in a way that he approves...otherwise, he never wants her to be yelled at...unless it is by him...and only for a good reason...like we are running a few minutes late

[Lovelybird]

luvstarved

 

Heck, if I know someone put down my dog, I would scream and cry and don't talk. your way of handling is very civilized IMO. maybe this event is just a result of lacking of communication in your family? maybe your husband didn't learn to consider other member's feelings? or maybe he did that just wanted to show that he is the head and boss in the family due to his hunger for respect, but caused a completely opposite effect? maybe he knew it was a failure and took his frustration onto you, I am picturing him as a clueless guy

 

can you try to respect him in next few weeks no matter what he does? see what will happen. There must have a right way to confront yet still respect?

 

I found that contempt is easily born when someone we expect to meet our needs don't or cannot do that, it is our bad tendency we have to overcome.

 

Can it possible that your husband wants to read some books to improve relationship? does he ever want to change? does he read spiritual books? what will make him want to change?

Edited March 3, 2008 by Lovelybird

[OWoman]

The respect for parents should be the #1 priority but your silence was damning.

 

Gosh! Are you posting from Nazi Germany, by any chance? Most parents try to teach their children right from wrong, to make up their own minds, not simply to accept the word of the parent as law. That kind of authoritarianism makes children vulnerable to child abuse, among other risks. I'd far rather my children disagreed with me and we discussed something rationally than they cowered in fear and accepted everything I said as law.

[carhill]

Ah, a healthy disrespect for authority. I know it well

[Taramere]

I really dislike the the notion of a healthy animal being put down simply because it's an inconvenience. That said, you hear about people just abandoning their pets in the middle of nowhere when they've had enough of them, and I find that much worse.

 

In this case, the dog was old and incontinent. I wouldn't have thought, from the description, that he had a great quality of life - though I suppose a vet would be the best person to comment. If he were my dog, I'd probably be feeling a combination of irritation about constantly having to clean up the messes, guilt about feeling irritated with something I loved - especially when it couldn't help it - and the general distress you feel when you can see that a once lively, happy pet is on the way out.

 

That situation totally puts you in that dilemma of "would it be kinder to have him put down?" It's a difficult decision, and would be worsened by someone else persuading you not to. It's absolutely horrible to watch anything you love beginning to fail - so I have to say that I can understand the husband deciding to make the decision while the OP was away. It sounds as though it was something that had been discussed on quite a few occasions already, with no clear decision getting made.

 

I talked him out of it several times, saying the dog was old and did not have long anyway and was not suffering.

 

So it's not as though there was no consultation here whatsoever.

 

I would have thought the fairest thing to say to the child would be "Vets use pain-free methods to put dogs down. That's why it's called 'putting them to sleep', and it's the responsible way to end a dog's life when it's starting to fail. Your dad felt the dog was failing, and he did what he thought was the best, kindest thing to do under the circumstances. I didn't want him to do it because I felt the dog wasn't in pain, but neither of us know that for sure - and he was a very old dog. Please don't let me hear you calling Dad a dog killer again."