UGH I hate that I am posting about this

[curiousnycgirl]

Will try to keep this short, but here it goes.

 

I've been with my b/f for 3.5 years. In that time we have had a significant number of ups and downs, including his losing his job 6 months into the relationship, his losing his sex drive, etc. Throughout it all I have stuck by him, given him 100% support and paid for all of our "extras" (ie dates, vacations to see his family, everything) - however we still live in separate houses, and he pays for his.

 

Last May or June while we were planning a trip to see his son who was being deployed to Iraq later in the summer, I suggested that we should get married while we were out in CA, as I assumed he would want his son at our wedding ceremony. It took my b/f over a month to give me an answer - and frankly it was not a good one.

 

He determined that I did not feel his son would be coming back from Iraq, and therefore I was rushing things. I explained to him that nothing could be further from the truth - I just felt it was a natural next step for us, and I thought he would want his son to be there.

 

While we were on our way to his son's apartment, b/f brought up the topic again - and frankly it was ugly. He berated me for pushing marriage when it was convenient, etc. I just sat there with the tears streaming down my face. I cleaned up my face enough to visit with his son, daughter in law etc, but barely spoke to the b/f the entire day, and did not get any sleep that night.

 

Since July we have only had marriage mentioned a few times.

1. when I told him that I would never raise the issue again - as he was mean and hurtful.

2. when we were all sitting at his best friend's house he described how he would not get married until he could afford to fly his son, daughter in law and granddaughter to europe to be at the ceremony - to which I announced clearly it would be with another woman because I wasn't going to wait around that long

3. we were discussing gifts - b/f maintains a list of things he wants and needs and makes sure I have a copy when gift giving time comes. I do not maintain such a list, and said to him there is only one thing I want - he knew what I meant.

 

Back in July I had discussed putting a timeline on this with my therapist. I very much want to get married, and felt maybe I should just tell myself if nothing happened by December I should just end it. No ultimatum just be done. My therapist discouraged me from this, as he knew it was not what I truly wanted.

 

It is now March and we are no where closer to marriage than before. Quite frankly I don't think it is going to happen for me - ever. I love this guy and very much want to be married to him, he knows that is all I want - but he can't give it to me.

 

My therapist and I discussed it last night, and he feels I need to put my foot down, and be ready to walk away. I should note here that b/f sees my therpaist as well - it is what helped us with the sex drive issue.

 

I am heartbroken as I know this is it. Starting Monday I will be single again. What is worse is I know my b/f will not do anything to try to fix what is broken.

 

Last January we had our one brief break up, basically over the lack of sex, and I said that was it I had had enough. For a week he did not call, did not text, did not im and did not email. I finally broke down after a week and called him - because I realized I had not tried everything - I had not suggested he seek therapy, which I did during that phone call, he said yes and therefore I agreed to get back together. When that break came up in a conversation one day (with his son) I mentioned that he didn't even try - b/f's response was well you said it was over, therefore it was over. Clearly this is going to be way easier on him than me.

 

UGH Im crushed. Not sure why I posted here - guess I am just preparing for the inevitable. It just sux, it's not as if we fight or don't get along, we are each other's best friends. But frankly I want more. I never believed in ultimatums - always wanted him to want to marry me. Now I find myself having to issue an ultimatum. Man this simply stinks!

[Deanster]

Sorry to hear about that.

 

I guess my main question regards how you will feel if your ultimatum is 'successful' - if you tell him he needs to marry you or lose you, and he decides to marry you - does that create the kind of foundation for a lifetime of happiness you're looking for?

 

I'd say that being married is hard enough when things are really good, but that both people need to want it, want it pretty badly, and want to be together for things to work out well.

 

I don't want to be negative, I'm actually a big fan of being married, but your situation certainly doesn't sound to me like it's in a place to be rushing forward at high speed.

 

Best of luck!

[amaysngrace]

It sounds like he counts on you to come up with the ideas of how things should pan out and then he goes along with them. That doesn't sound so bad.

 

Could you arrange to fly his son home? Make arrangements with the son and his wife rather than be counting on him to do it? Clear it with him first but let him know that you are taking the steps to make this happen.

 

He may just be waiting on you.

 

Are you okay doing that? It sounds like you are the take charge person in your relationship. Do you have a problem with being that?

[Curmudgeon]

Im crushed. Not sure why I posted here - guess I am just preparing for the inevitable. It just sux, it's not as if we fight or don't get along, we are each other's best friends. But frankly I want more. I never believed in ultimatums - always wanted him to want to marry me. Now I find myself having to issue an ultimatum. Man this simply stinks!

 

If you have to issue an ultimatum in order to be handed a marriage then it's flawed and defective right from the start and not likely to get any better.

 

This has been a constant issue for going on four years. What's changed? From what I've read it's only gotten worse.

 

You do know that one definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result, don't you?

 

I'm truly sorry it's come to this for you but i think it past time you do yourself the kindness of leaving so one day you can be with someone who cares.

[curiousnycgirl]

Sorry to hear about that.

 

I guess my main question regards how you will feel if your ultimatum is 'successful' - if you tell him he needs to marry you or lose you, and he decides to marry you - does that create the kind of foundation for a lifetime of happiness you're looking for?

 

I'd say that being married is hard enough when things are really good, but that both people need to want it, want it pretty badly, and want to be together for things to work out well.

 

I don't want to be negative, I'm actually a big fan of being married, but your situation certainly doesn't sound to me like it's in a place to be rushing forward at high speed.

 

Best of luck!

 

I agree I don't believe in ultimatums, and I hate the fact that this is where I am. However how long should I keep doing the same old same old? Should I wait until I'm 50 before I find out that this relationship won't go any further?

[curiousnycgirl]

It sounds like he counts on you to come up with the ideas of how things should pan out and then he goes along with them. That doesn't sound so bad.

 

Could you arrange to fly his son home? Make arrangements with the son and his wife rather than be counting on him to do it? Clear it with him first but let him know that you are taking the steps to make this happen.

 

He may just be waiting on you.

 

Are you okay doing that? It sounds like you are the take charge person in your relationship. Do you have a problem with being that?

 

Sorry I don't understand your post at all. This has nothing to do with his son or visiting, it's about the relationship moving forward

[quankanne]

I'm with curm on this one – if it means as much to him as it does to you, marriage would not be an issue. And it sounds like he's just along for the ride, as long as the ride is headed in the direction HE wants.

 

as hard as it is, honey, maybe it's time to give him up for good, because he does not see your relationship (or value it) the same way you do. That's not to say he doesn't care for you, but he just doesn't seem to want to end up in the same place you do: Married to each other.

[curiousnycgirl]

If you have to issue an ultimatum in order to be handed a marriage then it's flawed and defective right from the start and not likely to get any better.

 

This has been a constant issue for going on four years. What's changed? From what I've read it's only gotten worse.

 

You do know that one definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result, don't you?

 

I'm truly sorry it's come to this for you but i think it past time you do yourself the kindness of leaving so one day you can be with someone who cares.

 

That is exactly why I don't like ultimatums - because I want him to want to take the next step on his own - not be forced into it. However my therapist feels his middle name should be procrastination - and he simply won't do it.

 

There have been variable issues over the past 3.5 years - his lack of libido was huge, and we resolved that, through therapy. The issue of marriage only came up about 8 months ago - but frankly at nearly 43 years of age - I don't feel I can keep waiting. If this relationship is not "the one" then I need to be free to find the one. It will take me quite a bit of time to mourne this loss and move on, so I'm really trying to be realistic.

 

I just hate it.

[curiousnycgirl]

I'm with curm on this one – if it means as much to him as it does to you, marriage would not be an issue. And it sounds like he's just along for the ride, as long as the ride is headed in the direction HE wants.

 

as hard as it is, honey, maybe it's time to give him up for good, because he does not see your relationship (or value it) the same way you do. That's not to say he doesn't care for you, but he just doesn't seem to want to end up in the same place you do: Married to each other.

 

Yup that is the conclusion I've reached, which is why I know I need to have this discussion. I don't want it to be an ultimatum, however I need to tell him why I am ending it.

[marlena]

Hi,

 

Just my opinion.

 

Your boyfriend should respect or at least understand the fact that at 43,you have every right to want to be in a marriage. If this is not what he wants, then, you have to decide whether to go and start over or whether you remain and hope he one day changes his mind. I know leaving is difficult, for you have emotionally invested in the relationship. If you decide to stay, you could be wasting years. Do you also want to have children? If yes, this is an important factor to take into account.

 

I wouldn't give him an ultimatum. It is not a good basis for a marriage. It can lead to resentment and the feeling that he was forced into it.

 

If you are determined to leave, then, just go without giving him an ultimatum. Tell him that is is over because you see no future in the relationship.

 

If he changes his mind, he will seek you out.

 

Best of luck.

 

Marlena

[amaysngrace]

Sorry I don't understand your post at all. This has nothing to do with his son or visiting, it's about the relationship moving forward

 

2. when we were all sitting at his best friend's house he described how he would not get married until he could afford to fly his son, daughter in law and granddaughter to europe to be at the ceremony - to which I announced clearly it would be with another woman because I wasn't going to wait around that long

 

My therapist discouraged me from this, as he knew it was not what I truly wanted.

 

I love this guy and very much want to be married to him, he knows that is all I want - but he can't give it to me.

 

I am heartbroken as I know this is it. Starting Monday I will be single again. What is worse is I know my b/f will not do anything to try to fix what is broken.

 

Last January we had our one brief break up, basically over the lack of sex, and I said that was it I had had enough. For a week he did not call, did not text, did not im and did not email. I finally broke down after a week and called him - because I realized I had not tried everything - I had not suggested he seek therapy, which I did during that phone call, he said yes and therefore I agreed to get back together.

 

 

I was just suggesting you hadn't tried everything. I'm sorry if I misunderstood you as well.

[Trialbyfire]

Yup that is the conclusion I've reached, which is why I know I need to have this discussion. I don't want it to be an ultimatum, however I need to tell him why I am ending it.

You've already expressed the many reasons for ending it. The two of you don't appear to have the same or similar life goals.

 

Marriage should be a no-brainer for two people who are equally committed to each other. He's set, from the sounds of his job state, some unreasonable goals so that it appears he's going in the same direction to you but in reality, it's a pipe dream.

 

Also, this thing about you paying for all the extras. If it's still going on, shut..it..down. Let him enjoy his life in the way he can afford to. You're neither his mother or his wife, to take care of his extra-curricular financial needs.

 

Don't take this personally but your b/f is a selfish man. Is this who you want to potentially spend the rest of your life with? It sounds like you're a very giving person. Don't let someone like this take advantage of your kindness.

[Curmudgeon]

That is exactly why I don't like ultimatums - because I want him to want to take the next step on his own - not be forced into it. However my therapist feels his middle name should be procrastination - and he simply won't do it.

 

There have been variable issues over the past 3.5 years - his lack of libido was huge, and we resolved that, through therapy. The issue of marriage only came up about 8 months ago - but frankly at nearly 43 years of age - I don't feel I can keep waiting. If this relationship is not "the one" then I need to be free to find the one. It will take me quite a bit of time to mourne this loss and move on, so I'm really trying to be realistic.

 

I just hate it.

 

But I beg to differ with your therapist. I think his middle name is "commitment phobic" or at least "commitment adverse." Please ask yourself what additional "benefits" he'll receive in marriage that he doesn't enjoy right now, other than, perhaps, a tax break.

 

It could be the "cow and milk" analogy!

 

I wish I could offer you some immediate comfort. I can't. But for the record, 43 is, to me, a young woman. My wife and I married when she was 48 and she'd been divorced and single for 18 years.

 

Keep the faith!

[quankanne]

I need to tell him why I am ending it.

 

because it's just not headed anywhere … to the altar; to an agreed upon spot that may not be exactly marriage but is a solid monagamous commitment nonetheless … we don't have the same goals in life and I need something more in life than a mate who is happy to take but cannot reciprocate.

 

or simply put, I can't give anymore than I have, and I don't foresee you meeting my needs in a manner we can both live with.

 

sounds selfish, I know, but in this instance you have every right to be selfish when you're the one who's all gave out ...

[Kamille]

No advice, just empathy for what must be a very painful situation.

 

I think there comes a point when you need to take stock and ask yourself if you are happy with what you have, such as it is.

 

In your case, clearly you are not.

 

Then you have to think about your options. As such I understand where Amaysngrace is coming from. What if you had other options outside of settle or leave?

[curiousnycgirl]

LOL Curm -

 

Actually I would be the one getting the tax break not him.

 

There are some fundamental things that would change were we to get married. Firstly we would move to one house - I have not understood all this time he has continued to whittle away his savings to support his house - and frankly part of me is quite resentful of it. If we look at it as a pool of money I think maintaining two houses is absurd, and should we get married we will be starting out in a much worse position due to these years of two houses with only one income. No I do not pay for anything in his house - but frankly he would have had all that money for some of the extras (like his DWI lawyer) if he didn't have a mortage et al to pay.

 

However I do not want to live together before marriage or at least engagement with a date in the near future. It sounds reallys stupid - but there is one significant thing that would force me to change dramatically that I am unwilling to change without marriage. I was raised an orthodox jew, and while I am no longer orthodox, I continue to keep a kosher home. This is my tradition and it allows my sister to eat in my house. I will not give this up without a true committment.

 

On the other hand he is christian and has said from the start that he is unwilling to live in a kosher house - hence the dilemma. I have compromised on many things, but as long as I am paying the bills and am legally single, I will live in a kosher home.

 

I know I sound ridiculous. I should never have dated outside my faith. He is literally the first non jew I have ever dated - UGH and I end up falling in love with him. Who is a bigger ********* than me?

[Star Gazer]

I've never even come close to being in your shoes, so I can only offer my sympathies for what you're going through right now. I can say that - perhaps this is me being overly romantic - that at your age, and after being together long enough, BOTH of you would "know" and REALLY WANT to be married by now. If you don't (er, he doesn't), that'd be all I'd have to know to move on and know it was for the best. Doesn't make it any easier or alleviate the pain, but know it's the right thing for you.

 

I also agree with whomever said that, assuming you issue the ultimatum and he does agree to marry you, that's no true healthy foundation for a marriage.

 

But again, I'm not married and have never come close - so perhaps I have no idea what I'm talking about.

[Curmudgeon]

I know I sound ridiculous. I should never have dated outside my faith. He is literally the first non jew I have ever dated - UGH and I end up falling in love with him. Who is a bigger ********* than me?

 

The financial issues aside, I can well understand the issues of faith. I'm Catholic and am married to someone who is a self-proclaimed Buddhist. I don't know if it's a matter of differences in faith, differences in personal values, or both, but we're about at a breaking point after almost 11 years of marriage.

 

Please, for your own sake, be very discerning and sure of what you need, expect and want in a spouse. Don't wait as long as i have to discover that these issues may may be insurmountable.

 

You'd have thought I'd have known better after the demise of a 25 year marriage many years ago.

 

DANG! Guess that makes me kinda old, doesn't it?

[amaysngrace]

Who is a bigger ********* than me?

 

Um...he is. Because he's screwing up. It sounds like you sacrificed a lot for him.

 

I'm sorry you're hurting.

[daisygirl]

The financial issues aside, I can well understand the issues of faith. I'm Catholic and am married to someone who is a self-proclaimed Buddhist. I don't know if it's a matter of differences in faith, differences in personal values, or both, but we're about at a breaking point after almost 11 years of marriage.

 

Please, for your own sake, be very discerning and sure of what you need, expect and want in a spouse. Don't wait as long as i have to discover that these issues may may be insurmountable.

 

You'd have thought I'd have known better after the demise of a 25 year marriage many years ago.

 

DANG! Guess that makes me kinda old, doesn't it?

 

I can relate to the interfaith problems. Ours are coming about after 5 years of marriage. I agree with Curm - make sure of your expectations before you marry. I can't say I regret marrying my husband, especially since we have a wonderful child together, but I would think really hard before marrying another faith/culture again. JMO.

[sally4sara]

What with you having to pay for everything in a situation where he makes it an even bigger financial burden to bear AND has a big enough drinking problem to have resulted in a DWI, WHY are you hanging on to this guy? Did he ever end up finding a new job?

Are you putting up with these things because you feel at 43, your options are limited?

If this guy were single, he would not be viewed on the dating scene as a good catch. Staying with you, he gets to feel like he is desired and some prize to win. If he agrees to marriage, he will be won (and no longer something to strive and fuss for) and his ego won't feel stroked anymore.

I don't care what age a person is. When looking for a partner you should only be considering people who can qualify as your equal. This guy doesn't sound like your equal.

[StartingOver07]

Will try to keep this short, but here it goes.

 

I've been with my b/f for 3.5 years. In that time we have had a significant number of ups and downs, including his losing his job 6 months into the relationship, his losing his sex drive, etc. Throughout it all I have stuck by him, given him 100% support and paid for all of our "extras" (ie dates, vacations to see his family, everything) - however we still live in separate houses, and he pays for his.

 

Last May or June while we were planning a trip to see his son who was being deployed to Iraq later in the summer, I suggested that we should get married while we were out in CA, as I assumed he would want his son at our wedding ceremony. It took my b/f over a month to give me an answer - and frankly it was not a good one.

 

He determined that I did not feel his son would be coming back from Iraq, and therefore I was rushing things. I explained to him that nothing could be further from the truth - I just felt it was a natural next step for us, and I thought he would want his son to be there.

 

While we were on our way to his son's apartment, b/f brought up the topic again - and frankly it was ugly. He berated me for pushing marriage when it was convenient, etc. I just sat there with the tears streaming down my face. I cleaned up my face enough to visit with his son, daughter in law etc, but barely spoke to the b/f the entire day, and did not get any sleep that night.

 

Since July we have only had marriage mentioned a few times.

1. when I told him that I would never raise the issue again - as he was mean and hurtful.

2. when we were all sitting at his best friend's house he described how he would not get married until he could afford to fly his son, daughter in law and granddaughter to europe to be at the ceremony - to which I announced clearly it would be with another woman because I wasn't going to wait around that long

3. we were discussing gifts - b/f maintains a list of things he wants and needs and makes sure I have a copy when gift giving time comes. I do not maintain such a list, and said to him there is only one thing I want - he knew what I meant.

 

Back in July I had discussed putting a timeline on this with my therapist. I very much want to get married, and felt maybe I should just tell myself if nothing happened by December I should just end it. No ultimatum just be done. My therapist discouraged me from this, as he knew it was not what I truly wanted.

 

It is now March and we are no where closer to marriage than before. Quite frankly I don't think it is going to happen for me - ever. I love this guy and very much want to be married to him, he knows that is all I want - but he can't give it to me.

 

My therapist and I discussed it last night, and he feels I need to put my foot down, and be ready to walk away. I should note here that b/f sees my therpaist as well - it is what helped us with the sex drive issue.

 

I am heartbroken as I know this is it. Starting Monday I will be single again. What is worse is I know my b/f will not do anything to try to fix what is broken.

 

Last January we had our one brief break up, basically over the lack of sex, and I said that was it I had had enough. For a week he did not call, did not text, did not im and did not email. I finally broke down after a week and called him - because I realized I had not tried everything - I had not suggested he seek therapy, which I did during that phone call, he said yes and therefore I agreed to get back together. When that break came up in a conversation one day (with his son) I mentioned that he didn't even try - b/f's response was well you said it was over, therefore it was over. Clearly this is going to be way easier on him than me.

 

UGH Im crushed. Not sure why I posted here - guess I am just preparing for the inevitable. It just sux, it's not as if we fight or don't get along, we are each other's best friends. But frankly I want more. I never believed in ultimatums - always wanted him to want to marry me. Now I find myself having to issue an ultimatum. Man this simply stinks!

 

Curious, I have read some of your other posts and I have always been struck by how good your advice is and how much insight you have.

 

So I ask you: read the post above and tell me what you would say to the poster who wrote that? I think your answer is in your own words.

[curiousnycgirl]

What with you having to pay for everything in a situation where he makes it an even bigger financial burden to bear AND has a big enough drinking problem to have resulted in a DWI, WHY are you hanging on to this guy? Did he ever end up finding a new job?

Are you putting up with these things because you feel at 43, your options are limited?

If this guy were single, he would not be viewed on the dating scene as a good catch. Staying with you, he gets to feel like he is desired and some prize to win. If he agrees to marriage, he will be won (and no longer something to strive and fuss for) and his ego won't feel stroked anymore.

I don't care what age a person is. When looking for a partner you should only be considering people who can qualify as your equal. This guy doesn't sound like your equal.

 

Wait a minute, he IS single. Also I chose to pay, I cannot put this all on him. I just thought I was part of something wonderful, and as part of a committed couple you help eachother out, pay for things, whatever. My point is I am getting resentful of the fact that I feel like I am giving 110% and he is not -since there is only one thing that I have asked for.

 

Also he doesn't have a drinking problem - while I do believe he was probably drunk that night (he claims he wasn't - and several others who were there agree with him), it was a one time thing.

 

As far as the job thing goes - he is building a new company, that takes time but has huge potential. He is also consulting for another company and the compensation is based on deals signed. So far not enough deals have been signed to claim it as true income (more like play money).

[curiousnycgirl]

Curious, I have read some of your other posts and I have always been struck by how good your advice is and how much insight you have.

 

So I ask you: read the post above and tell me what you would say to the poster who wrote that? I think your answer is in your own words.

 

If I read this from someone else I'd be beating them up because they deserve better. Which is one of the reasons I keep saying I'm such an ashole.

 

On the other hand - what has me so very down is that I truly love this guy, and truly enjoy nearly every moment we spend together. He is not a bum, he pays his own bills - just doesn't have any to spare due to his lack of income. I have 100% confidence that the businesses he is building will bare fruit, this stuff just takes time. At least he is not operating in the red!

 

I don't mean to paint him in a 100% negative picture, because frankly that is not true. If it were I wouldn't be so hurt/crushed/upset/in love, whatever.

[lexi29]

It sounds like your boyfriend is very lucky to have someone like you. He just doesn't realize it. And he probably never will. Do you know how he feels about marriage in general? Is he someone who thinks of it as "it's just a piece of paper". Because I dated somone like that. In the beginning he talked about marriage all the time, but there were always excuses. First it was that he wanted to live together first, after I moved in , it was that he wasnt' over being hurt by his ex (it was two years before he met me) then it was that we argued too much, when we stopped arguing all together it was that he couldn't afford a ring, after that it was that he wanted to get married on a certain day (told me this about two months ahead of time) and that there wasn't time to plan a wedding. THen he tried to convince me that he was going to propose to me but it was the same day my grandfather died and he didn't want to do it on that day because of the bad memories or sadness I'd connect with that day, and the list goes on and on with more excuses.

 

Turns out this guy thought he wanted to get married but was perfectly happy with the way things were (me paying half the bills, buying all the food, cooking dinner etc) and really didn't see the need for anything more. I, too had all those ultimatums in my head (if he doesn't propose by our anniversary I'm going to leave etc) and I never followed through on them. Wasted almost 3 years of my life on that nonsense!

 

 

I think your boyfriend is just comfortable with the way things are and sees no reason to change. It doesnt' sound like he respects your feelings and he knows you love him, and doesnt think you'll leave him. He sounds like he is setting these restrictions/goals that he knows are nearly imposible to meet (he wants to get married in Europe, doesn't have a good job, but wants to wait till he gets the money to fly his son and his family there for the wedding, etc. He is just making excuses probably because he sees no reason to get married. He may be a great guy and only you know exactly how he treats you (obviously if he went to counseling he does love you because he was trying to fix a problem) He may just be stalling because he is afraid of commitment (also the reason he keeps his own house even though he can barely afford it) or he just doesnt' see marriage (with anyone) as a part of his future.