JMC Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 With it being common knowledge that "most marriages fail" and "marriages today have a 50% chance of failing" - WHY do the ones where there's BS's, WS's, and OP's seem to just go on and on and ON? Why do they seem immune to how frail society views marriage in general? Is there some connection here? Could it be that marriages with children are the ones that resist failure? And what is "IC"? I've looked everywhere and cannot figger it out. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 IC = independent counseling (versus couples therapy) I'd guess that these marriages seem to last because having an OW/OM allows the WS to maintain their marriage, while getting what they want/need from an outside source. The cheater has an outlet and a sympathetic ear, so they are able to endure their marriages...if they did not have that "crutch" they would likely be more motivated to change their situation. JMO, take it with a grain of salt. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 IC=individual counseling (counselor, depending on context). Remember that you're quoting the 'general statistics' thing...so with that, you also hear that 50% of marriages are going to be impacted by infidelity (the whole OP, BS, WS thing). I'd bet that a large number of that 50% that fail are also ones that are part of the 50% that had an unfaithful spouse in them. I'm sure that the d rate is HIGHER in marriages impacted with infidelity as compared to those that weren't. They just seem to "go on and on" because everyone involved is hurt by the infidelity, and at least one person (usually the OP) if not more are hinging their lives on the marriage ending. "A watched pot never boils", ya know? But what can I say...my wife was involved in her affair in our 16/17 year marriage...and we just celebrated one awesomely happy 20th anniversary last year. Some DO go on and on...quite happily, I might add. A lot don't. I had a ton of friends involved in online gaming, and watched marriage after marriage crumble because on or the other spouse "found someone" online and cheated on their spouse. Link to post Share on other sites
Author JMC Posted March 5, 2008 Author Share Posted March 5, 2008 I hope that "on and on" didn't sound disrespectful....it was a lil selfish part of me that wished I could have been with my MM. Also I meant it strongly because I wish that the sad situations I read about here could just end already - whether it's MM and BS staying together, or MM and OW ending up together. The limbo is horribly sad and tragic. That's the "on and on" I'm frustrated with. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Equally, I hope that my response wasn't taken as harsh. I can definitely see why from your perspective that it would seem that way...and that would s*ck for sure. I've always said...no one walks away from an affair unscarred. BS, WS, or OP...everyone gets their fair share of battle scars. Even the OM in my situation...believe it or not, I prayed for him too while it was all going on. Because I knew that there was no way all of us were walking away happy. Link to post Share on other sites
Jess-Belle Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 (edited) I'd guess that these marriages seem to last because having an OW/OM allows the WS to maintain their marriage, while getting what they want/need from an outside source. The cheater has an outlet and a sympathetic ear, so they are able to endure their marriages...if they did not have that "crutch" they would likely be more motivated to change their situation. Bingo. My former cheater perspective was this: One person doesn't fill all of my needs/desires of a mate? No problem. I'll just construct the perfect "partner" out of more than one person. Usually the person I was with in the main relationship had most of the qualities I wanted, and the OP filled in whatever gaps there were. Like that, I could theoretically go on for an eternity. Except what would usually happen was, I'd get tired of the main one, passively aggressively cause a breakup, move on to the OP... and then later get a new OP. ETA: And this is considering that I wasn't married. If I was actually married, I really would never have left! Pay for the divorce, maybe alimony, child support, splitting of everything we've invested in together... Go through that whole pain in the xss? For what? Hell no. I'd stay in my nice, comfy, familiar life, and keep my ego boost on the side. If they leave, there's plenty more out there willing to take their place. Just take a look around here at all the cheater apologists that are willing to coddle us (well, formerly, in my case) and rationalize away just about anything. Thanks to that kind of thinking, I had the time of my life cake-eating for at least a decade. Yes, poor cheaters, we're so deprived, please show us how good it can be... LOL Edited March 5, 2008 by Jess-Belle add additional paragraph Link to post Share on other sites
Mino Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 That is an excellant question!!! You know I have to say this , I dont want to offend anyone here, so please, this is only my Opinion. I have lived in europe and In the US. I believe it is more of an American view to stay at all cost. The european view is different. In Europe, we live differently. Life is more simple, I think people live more freely, enjoy life more. Here in the US, its alot about the material things in life. The teens in Europe are taught more independent. Here in the US, especially girls, are taught to find a husband who takes care of them. I went on to marriage builders a few days ago and I was appaled to what I read. There was a woman who complained her H was on his 7 affair!! He now wanted to bring OW home to his W house!! He wanted his wife to welcome her!! So this woman was asking the other BS of what she should do. Most Of them said " Honey, just irgnor him when he brings it up again. Be nice to him, cook him nice dinners, be sweet and loving, I thought OH MY GOD!! what kind of SH$$ is that? 7 affairs, and she is still be nice, and all her peers are advising her to be sweet to him. I dont get it? A European woman would have thrown him out to the curb on the second one. First one after many years, and he shows remorse, forgivable, but one after another, after another after another????? 7 , he was on the 7 th!!! Then I have to think, its all on the culture of how one was raised. I guess being diviorced in the US is like a black mark or something. People will look the other way , be unhappy, just not be divorced. Its a mystery to me. Funny crime rate is higher here in the US too, wonder if there is a link? Forgive me BS I do not want to offend anyone, I am sure I will be flamed for this one:o But again this is an observation I have made already many many years ago, I see it on the teens, there hopes, there dreams, so very different between cultures. Link to post Share on other sites
Jess-Belle Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 That's pretty interesting stuff Mino! Link to post Share on other sites
Author JMC Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 Nope, I can't think of a time when you haven't been respectful Owl. I appreciate your point of view. And that was very interesting, Mino...I like to hear how things are different culturally. It kinda helps soften up the black & white views the U.S. seems to be saturated in at times. Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I was discussing the issue of successful marriages with a colleague today. It began after he learned I was divorcing after 20+ years. He'd thought it was a successful marriage until I spilled the beans today. Funny how length, in some eyes, is the measure of success. The duration of the marriage has nothing to do with success! Literally, it lasted that long because I put up with the crap for that long. I suppose you could say I was successful at taking the crap and making it look good. How successful was that? More like wasteful. Anyway, I'm not sure you'll find one answer on this. Some of the posts I'm sure are right. Has anyone mentioned neediness? I think my MM's W would probably put up with it if she knew of the A because she is the needy sort. She needs to look successful and needs a man around to carry the groceries in for her and gas up her car, etc. She needs someone to hold her hand at the doctor visits and all that. I'm not knocking that at all; I'm just saying that it is her character and that is the reason some people stay married for so long. She'd kick, fight, and scream, but at the end of the day she needs to look successful and would find a way to make him stay. Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I had a ton of friends involved in online gaming, and watched marriage after marriage crumble because one or the other spouse "found someone" online and cheated on their spouse. Online gaming, or online dating? Link to post Share on other sites
Mino Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Well, I have a daughter who pretty much grew up here. I talk to her friends all the time, so I hear their hopes and dreams. All want to be married tomorrow. They are in college, but not so much for a great career, more so in finding a great husband. lol. Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 That is an excellant question!!! You know I have to say this , I dont want to offend anyone here, so please, this is only my Opinion. I have lived in europe and In the US. I believe it is more of an American view to stay at all cost. The european view is different. In Europe, we live differently. Life is more simple, I think people live more freely, enjoy life more. Here in the US, its alot about the material things in life. The teens in Europe are taught more independent. Here in the US, especially girls, are taught to find a husband who takes care of them. I went on to marriage builders a few days ago and I was appaled to what I read. There was a woman who complained her H was on his 7 affair!! He now wanted to bring OW home to his W house!! He wanted his wife to welcome her!! So this woman was asking the other BS of what she should do. Most Of them said " Honey, just irgnor him when he brings it up again. Be nice to him, cook him nice dinners, be sweet and loving, I thought OH MY GOD!! what kind of SH$$ is that? 7 affairs, and she is still be nice, and all her peers are advising her to be sweet to him. I dont get it? A European woman would have thrown him out to the curb on the second one. First one after many years, and he shows remorse, forgivable, but one after another, after another after another????? 7 , he was on the 7 th!!! Then I have to think, its all on the culture of how one was raised. I guess being diviorced in the US is like a black mark or something. People will look the other way , be unhappy, just not be divorced. Its a mystery to me. Funny crime rate is higher here in the US too, wonder if there is a link? Forgive me BS I do not want to offend anyone, I am sure I will be flamed for this one:o But again this is an observation I have made already many many years ago, I see it on the teens, there hopes, there dreams, so very different between cultures. Interesting. I've always heard Europe was where they looked the other way when a man had a mistress...France, Italy, Spain. No? Link to post Share on other sites
Lovelybird Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 (edited) Just some good exuses for inability for sustain a marriage, excuses for cheating IF a marriage fail, it is responsibility of BOTH partners, nobody in this earth is perfect If you really think about the whole thing, OW is in the same shoe as the wife in: why you cannot leave? Edited March 6, 2008 by Lovelybird Link to post Share on other sites
jton30 Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Why do they seem immune to how frail society views marriage in general? I think you're confusing maintaining the legal status of marriage with the quality of the relationship. Many 'bad' marriages are a result of deeply dysfunctional interaction where partners may be bound together for all the wrong reasons. Link to post Share on other sites
Mino Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 looked the other way? Naw,, maybe in the movies.....or a few decades ago. As women became independent, making there own money they have smarten up and figured out they don't need to look the other way! The girls are taught careers first, people marry at a later age now Link to post Share on other sites
Lovelybird Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 (edited) I think you're confusing maintaining the legal status of marriage with the quality of the relationship. Many 'bad' marriages are a result of deeply dysfunctional interaction where partners may be bound together for all the wrong reasons. so dysfunctional interaction will change when this person change partner? isn't this person a part of this dysfunction? If people learn to face and confront the problem in themselves, many marriage will survive and flurish. if they run, they carry same problem into another relationship, or they can stay in a not-so-close relationship such as affair, so they won't face their own weaknesses, but also lose chance for improving self Edited March 6, 2008 by Lovelybird Link to post Share on other sites
jton30 Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 so dysfunctional interaction will change when this person change partner? isn't this person a part of this dysfunction? If people learn to face and confront the problem in themselves, many marriage will survive and flurish I think you're partly right. Most relationship issues are just unresolved personal issues in one or both partners. They don't necessarily disappear in the next relationship. My only point was that some marriages last as long as they do not based on quality interaction but because of an unhealthy co-dependency. Link to post Share on other sites
Lovelybird Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I think you're partly right. Most relationship issues are just unresolved personal issues in one or both partners. They don't necessarily disappear in the next relationship. My only point was that some marriages last as long as they do not based on quality interaction but because of an unhealthy co-dependency. It is true. I agree I just think that those who bashing own partner with the attitude not seeking solution just show others how self failed in a relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
Mino Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 so dysfunctional interaction will change when this person change partner? isn't this person a part of this dysfunction? If people learn to face and confront the problem in themselves, many marriage will survive and flurish. if they run, they carry same problem into another relationship, or they can stay in a not-so-close relationship such as affair, so they won't face their own weaknesses have you every thought about that people may have married to young? Or they have outgrown each other? maybe it should be like a driver liense with a renewel date. That way both partners will be on their toes and care for their marriage and themselves, cause they know their is an expiration date!! Link to post Share on other sites
Lovelybird Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 have you every thought about that people may have married to young? Or they have outgrown each other? maybe it should be like a driver liense with a renewel date. That way both partners will be on their toes and care for their marriage and themselves, cause they know their is an expiration date!! Good idea ! maybe they should revow or recommit to each other from time to time. the believers who talk to God dailty will know very soon in which area she/he should improve themselves, and they can use prayers to change things. I don't get believers stay in cheating, yet still say they believe in God, sorry, maybe they don't really ask God for solution, just go on in own way If one outgrow another, it is good chance to help another to grow. Mindset of 'how about my happiness' is the killer for marriage. If you put another first, automatically you will reap happiness Link to post Share on other sites
Mino Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Yes lovelybird, but it takes both partners to work it out. I think many times one just doesnt see how broken the marriage is till its too late, Or people are masters of sweeping things under the carpet for YEARS! My mm and W are excellent at that!!! No comunication skills, I guess:o Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Yes lovelybird, but it takes both partners to work it out. I think many times one just doesnt see how broken the marriage is till its too late, Or people are masters of sweeping things under the carpet for YEARS! My mm and W are excellent at that!!! No comunication skills, I guess:o I never understand that - how much skill does it take to say, "I'm unhappy, you're unhappy, and our marriage is in trouble. We need to figure this out together. Now." Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 If you put another first, automatically you will reap happiness Sorry, but this is a naive and dangerous attitude to have in the real world. It all depends on how your "another" handles it. Often IRL, they take advantage of it and run all over you. It does not reap happiness unless BOTH parties in the M embrace this concept wholeheartedly. If only one person does, a dangerous and unhealthy imbalance results. Link to post Share on other sites
Lovelybird Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 (edited) Sorry, but this is a naive and dangerous attitude to have in the real world. It all depends on how your "another" handles it. Often IRL, they take advantage of it and run all over you. It does not reap happiness unless BOTH parties in the M embrace this concept wholeheartedly. If only one person does, a dangerous and unhealthy imbalance results. you have to learn how to confront and set boundaries but more often when you change yourself, the another one will change accordingly, it is upward dynamic system. the most bad attitude is pride, and think self has no wrong Real world? in real world I see prayers changes people, welcome to my real world Edited March 6, 2008 by Lovelybird Link to post Share on other sites
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