Why do these marriages seem to last so long?

[OpenBook]

you have to learn how to confront and set boundaries

 

but more often when you change yourself, the another one will change accordingly, it is upward dynamic system. the most bad attitude is pride, and think self has no wrong

 

Real world? in real world I see prayers changes people, welcome to my real world

 

That's nice! Good for you.

[RecordProducer]

With it being common knowledge that "most marriages fail" and "marriages today have a 50% chance of failing" - WHY do the ones where there's BS's, WS's, and OP's seem to just go on and on and ON?

 

Why do they seem immune to how frail society views marriage in general?

 

Is there some connection here? Could it be that marriages with children are the ones that resist failure?

That's a very good question and I think the answer is simple: those who think of divorce, don't cheat, they simply leave. Or they cheat to try the other side of the fence and then leave (or get dumped).

 

IMO, the reason why marriages last has little to do with the problems in the marriage; it has to do with the people being determined to stay married, regardless of whether there's infidelity or not. In other words, they stay despite of the problems (and all marriages have them). Some of these people who don't think about divorce have lovers on aside. But, sometimes they feel revived after tasting new love and leave after many years of being married.

 

One can't help but wonder if marriages are all about endurance.

[White Flower]

I never understand that - how much skill does it take to say, "I'm unhappy, you're unhappy, and our marriage is in trouble. We need to figure this out together. Now."

 

Good point. I asked H for years if he was happy because I was not and he said yes! He thought that if he was happy then why the heck couldn't I be? I guess all his needs were being met, but mine weren't. *shrug*

[White Flower]

Hey RC! Where have you been? Are you still married?

[marlena]

Funny crime rate is higher here in the US too, wonder if there is a link?

 

Mino,

 

As someone who has lived on both sides of the Atlantic, I fully understand what you mean. I think that Americans not only stay in toxic marriages for far too long but also make divorce as messy as possible. This, to me is a sign of an unhealthy society.

 

Yes, life in Europe is easier, more relaxed and fun and just plain healthier. Depression isn't so widespread. I don't know many people who go to counseling or who are on meds. Judging from this board, almost everyone has a a counselor the way we each have our hairdresser and beautician here in Europe.

 

Which brings to me why I quoted you above.

 

I have often mused on why the crime rate in Europe is not as high as it is in the US. I, too, think there is a correlation. Could it be that people get out more, externalize their feelings in dance and song and red wine, are less isolated, have friends and enjoy their lives more? Europeans celebrate life in a more philosophical way- rolling with the punches I'd say and trying to make the best of any situation.

 

Just something to think about.

[White Flower]

Sorry, but this is a naive and dangerous attitude to have in the real world. It all depends on how your "another" handles it. Often IRL, they take advantage of it and run all over you. It does not reap happiness unless BOTH parties in the M embrace this concept wholeheartedly. If only one person does, a dangerous and unhealthy imbalance results.

 

You're right; my 'other' (as in my H) definitely took advantage of my putting him first and years later when I decided we should bring me to a level of equality he just freaked out. He was not ready for that! I never wanted to surpass him as in being treated better than him, but he acted like I had usurped his authority on how to treat White Flower, lol.

 

Putting each other first is a very romantic idea and only works if both parties adhere to it adamantly.

[White Flower]

Mino,

 

As someone who has lived on both sides of the Atlantic, I fully understand what you mean. I think that Americans not only stay in toxic marriages for far too long but also make divorce as messy as possible. This, to me is a sign of an unhealthy society.

 

Yes, life in Europe is easier, more relaxed and fun and just plain healthier. Depression isn't so widespread. I don't know many people who go to counseling or who are on meds. Judging from this board, almost everyone has a a counselor the way we each have our hairdresser and beautician here in Europe.

 

Which brings to me why I quoted you above.

 

I have often mused on why the crime rate in Europe is not as high as it is in the US. I, too, think there is a correlation. Could it be that people get out more, externalize their feelings in dance and song and red wine, are less isolated, have friends and enjoy their lives more? Europeans celebrate life in a more philosophical way- rolling with the punches I'd say and trying to make the best of any situation.

 

Just something to think about.

I'd like to chime in as the american that is not offended by this notion.

 

I think our stress often comes from our sense of purity, or what the French would call, "Puritanical Hypocrisy". We believe so much in happy and romantic endings at the cost of our health. We work so hard and for such much in order to impress (as well as feel satisfied that we are successful )that we forget what is really valuable--the quality of our daily life and our loved ones. We have lost focus for sure.

 

Sometimes I think I need to sell everything and rent a small apartment, take a job that is satisfying to me and just take life easy. And drink a glass of red wine with dinner each evening outdoors watching the sunset.

[Trimmer]

With it being common knowledge that "most marriages fail" and "marriages today have a 50% chance of failing" - WHY do the ones where there's BS's, WS's, and OP's seem to just go on and on and ON?

 

Why do they seem immune to how frail society views marriage in general?

I think you're letting yourself be confused by the numbers game here.

 

Doesn't the "50%" statistic refer to the probability of a marriage failing at some time in the partners' lives, in other words, the probability of it not lasting until "death do we part?"

 

On the other hand, a marriage that an OP is involved in probably seems to go "on and on and on" after just a year or two. You would really have to track that marriage for the rest of the partners' lives to tell whether it's any different from the rest.

 

I bet if you could really follow them, marriages touched by infidelity are no less likely than the rest (and I'd bet probably much more so) to come apart at some point before the partners' deaths (and therefore to contribute to that 50% failure statistic.) It's just that if that failure doesn't come within 6 months, 9 months, a year, 2 years, then it seems, to an OP like it's dragging on "forever." But just because they don't fail in that relatively short period of the OP's involvement, doesn't mean they are "immune."

 

So "dragging on forever" from an OP's perspective is a completely different "forever" than the 50% failure rate statistic is talking about, and that's why you can't relate them directly.

Edited March 6, 2008 by Trimmer

[marlena]

White Flower,

 

I tend to agree. Americans are very idealistic. Europeans are more realists I think.

 

And they watch more sunsets and drink more wine!!

[Lovelybird]

You're right; my 'other' (as in my H) definitely took advantage of my putting him first and years later when I decided we should bring me to a level of equality he just freaked out. He was not ready for that! I never wanted to surpass him as in being treated better than him, but he acted like I had usurped his authority on how to treat White Flower, lol.

 

Putting each other first is a very romantic idea and only works if both parties adhere to it adamantly.

This is what I talked about confront, but confront doesn't mean you have to cheat

 

We believe so much in happy and romantic endings at the cost of our health. We work so hard and for such much in order to impress (as well as feel satisfied that we are successful )that we forget what is really valuable--the quality of our daily life and our loved ones. We have lost focus for sure.

the belief becomes "romantic endings at the cost of our partner or others" intead of our health:o, a person who willingly gives love more is always the happy one, you have to have love source that doesn't come from impefect human. Maybe person who never experienced God's love will endlessly seek the perfect love of God from human which is impossible?

 

I guess 'romantic love' isn't same as 'dedicated love', romantic love can come and go, dedicated love is forever and nuture romantic love

Edited March 6, 2008 by Lovelybird

[Woggle]

You have to find somebody that has as much of a desire to have a happy and healthy marriage as you do which is easier said than done. If you have somebody that has a constant me, me, me mentality or blames all of their unhapiness on you or in general is a self centered person that does not care how much they hurt the person they vowed to love a marriage will not work.

[OpenBook]

I bet if you could really follow them, marriages touched by infidelity are no less likely than the rest (and I'd bet probably much more so) to come apart at some point before the partners' deaths (and therefore to contribute to that 50% failure statistic.)

 

I don't know about the statistics stuff, but I read where the longer a marriage lasts, the more likely it is to experience infidelity. Who knows how many 30+ year marriages have survived unfaithfulness? My suspicion is that the vast majority of them have at some point dealt with infidelity.

 

I think long-term marriages endure for a lot of different reasons (and not always good ones!!), but in any case it has more to do with the tenaciousness of the MP's in it, rather than the love they have for each other. My parents' generation had that "stick to it, no matter what" approach and so more of those marriages lasted than didn't. If they did experience infidelity, it was just one more challenge in the road to overcome. They just worked with what they had, and kept on going.

 

But my generation - that's a whole nother ballgame. My mother and her GF's put up with a LOT more from their H's (who were always the unchallenged head of the family unit) than I or my GF's ever could now.

Roles are being redefined... and people are living longer. Sometimes it feels like everything's so "up in the air" now -- like it's all a crapshoot (as I'm ever so fond of saying).

[OpenBook]

This is what I talked about confront, but confront doesn't mean you have to cheat

 

 

the belief becomes "romantic endings at the cost of our partner or others" intead of our health:o, a person who willingly gives love more is always the happy one, you have to have love source that doesn't come from impefect human. Maybe person who never experienced God's love will endlessly seek the perfect love of God from human which is impossible?

 

I guess 'romantic love' isn't same as 'dedicated love', romantic love can come and go, dedicated love is forever and nuture romantic love

 

Have you ever been married, Lovelybird?

[NoIDidn't]

I think you're letting yourself be confused by the numbers game here.

 

Doesn't the "50%" statistic refer to the probability of a marriage failing at some time in the partners' lives, in other words, the probability of it not lasting until "death do we part?"

 

On the other hand, a marriage that an OP is involved in probably seems to go "on and on and on" after just a year or two. You would really have to track that marriage for the rest of the partners' lives to tell whether it's any different from the rest.

 

I bet if you could really follow them, marriages touched by infidelity are no less likely than the rest (and I'd bet probably much more so) to come apart at some point before the partners' deaths (and therefore to contribute to that 50% failure statistic.) It's just that if that failure doesn't come within 6 months, 9 months, a year, 2 years, then it seems, to an OP like it's dragging on "forever." But just because they don't fail in that relatively short period of the OP's involvement, doesn't mean they are "immune."

 

So "dragging on forever" from an OP's perspective is a completely different "forever" than the 50% failure rate statistic is talking about, and that's why you can't relate them directly.

 

I'd have to say that I agree with you on this one. The whole premise of this thread is based on the OPs jumbled thoughts and not real logic (no offense). It is a real leap to assume that the 50% Divorce rate has anything to do with the Infidelity stats. One does not imply the other.

[marlena]

I think long-term marriages endure for a lot of different reasons (and not always good ones!!), but in any case it has more to do with the tenaciousness of the MP's in it, rather than the love they have for each other.

 

I agree with this. I have seen it in a lot of couples. Sheer stubborness. They go on complaining forever and ever about how sh**** their marriage is but they still stick to it.

 

These types get on my nerves. Stop complaining or get out, I say. I mean to go through a rough patch or a crisis and complain, yeah, OK, I'll sympathize. But to continually complain for thirty years!!!Yikes!! My sympathy runs out right there.

 

Open Book,

I know our parents held this belief but I see young couples doing the same exact thing.

 

Do people really enjoy being miserable, I wonder?

[Owl]

WF asked:

Online gaming, or online dating?

 

Online GAMING. As in predominately MMORPGS (WoW, Everquest, Lineage, Second Life, etc...).

 

These were people not looking for anything when they went into game...these were people that ended up involved in an emotional affair (that very commonly led to a physical one) through online interaction via a gaming format.

[Lookingforward]

White Flower,

 

I tend to agree. Americans are very idealistic. Europeans are more realists I think.

 

And they watch more sunsets and drink more wine!!

 

And Aussies are definitely more laid back.

 

Have to agree also with the perception that the counselling/medication rate seems to be an american 'thing' - don't remember many I knew rushing to be in counselling whenever an issue arose.

 

and we have GREAT sunsets (with beaches) and of course, BEER

[JMC]

I agree and understand about Europe and other countries being less stressful, more productive because of off-time, more advanced culturally, sophisticated, etc.....

 

Then WHY the HXLL does everyone and their brother want to come here (to U.S.)?!!! LOLLLLLL Argh!

[Mino]

Mino,

 

As someone who has lived on both sides of the Atlantic, I fully understand what you mean. I think that Americans not only stay in toxic marriages for far too long but also make divorce as messy as possible. This, to me is a sign of an unhealthy society.

 

Yes, life in Europe is easier, more relaxed and fun and just plain healthier. Depression isn't so widespread. I don't know many people who go to counseling or who are on meds. Judging from this board, almost everyone has a a counselor the way we each have our hairdresser and beautician here in Europe.

 

Which brings to me why I quoted you above. Marlena, I think you hit the nail on the head, Since I am here in US , I have turned into a workaholic!! No fest, no dancing unless its a special occasion. Thats why I run to the other side serveral times a year, and stay a month or so, just to feel like I am alive!! Thank God I have these options. But for those who never leave their state, they know no other world. But again, I see the attitude among the teens. The do have different goals, and that is I feel the reason the european women would not put up with years of a cheating spouse. not saying that nobody cheats there, but they Divorce much quicker. And your right its not so messy like in the US. the laws are different to. Had I married their, I could have payed for a man, just cause I made more money. There is also no lifetime alimony!! Which I think is totally absurd. Until the kids go to school, I understand. But for my ex to sit on his A$$ for the rest of his life and I have to pay, Not fair. So because there are no laws to support such a crime, people tend to seperate without all this revenge. My parents divorced, they went to lunch after the court meeting. Its like hey, didnt work out, I wish you a great life. Here You think, Oh sh$$, i have to give up most of my paycheck for how many years??? Makes people think twice about spilling the beans..

[Mino]

I'd like to chime in as the american that is not offended by this notion.

 

I think our stress often comes from our sense of purity, or what the French would call, "Puritanical Hypocrisy". We believe so much in happy and romantic endings at the cost of our health. We work so hard and for such much in order to impress (as well as feel satisfied that we are successful )that we forget what is really valuable--the quality of our daily life and our loved ones. We have lost focus for sure.

 

Sometimes I think I need to sell everything and rent a small apartment, take a job that is satisfying to me and just take life easy. And drink a glass of red wine with dinner each evening outdoors watching the sunset.

I agree 100%

[Mino]

I agree and understand about Europe and other countries being less stressful, more productive because of off-time, more advanced culturally, sophisticated, etc.....

 

Then WHY the HXLL does everyone and their brother want to come here (to U.S.)?!!! LOLLLLLL Argh!

Well, for me is I make 4 times the money, and pay only half of the taxes than in Europe. I have two homes, one here and one there. So its ok with me:o

[Trimmer]

I agree and understand about Europe and other countries being less stressful, more productive because of off-time, more advanced culturally, sophisticated, etc.....

 

Then WHY the HXLL does everyone and their brother want to come here (to U.S.)?!!! LOLLLLLL Argh!

America: you're a stressed-out, unhealthy, cheating, lying, immoral slut. But you're my stressed-out, unhealthy, cheating, lying, immoral slut, and I love ya!

[herenow]

With it being common knowledge that "most marriages fail" and "marriages today have a 50% chance of failing" - WHY do the ones where there's BS's, WS's, and OP's seem to just go on and on and ON?

 

Why do they seem immune to how frail society views marriage in general?

 

Is there some connection here? Could it be that marriages with children are the ones that resist failure?

 

 

And what is "IC"? I've looked everywhere and cannot figger it out.

 

I don't have time to read all the posts in this thread, so forgive me if this has been said. I view the line in this OP about marriages with children resisting divorce, as another attempt to say that MM stay with their BW for the sake of the kids.

 

From my point of view, most of the people who I know that have gotten divorced ACTUALLY HAVE CHILDREN. I bold this because I do believe that when people get divorced is because the marriage didn't work plain and simple. People will get divorced regardless if they have children or not. Most of the time it's what's best for everyone.

 

When you say that marriages where infidelity is involved go on and on, I strongly disagree. I know many people who have divorced over an affair. The ones that survive do so because both partners have made a decision to work on their problems together and individually to fix their marriage. Sometimes the result of such work strengthens the marriage, but only if both are willing to be completely honest about why the problems happened in the first place.

 

Is this a bad thing? I don't think so.

Edited March 6, 2008 by herenow

[Jess-Belle]

From my point of view, most of the people who I know that have gotten divorced ACTUALLY HAVE CHILDREN.

 

Yes, all of my siblings that are divorced, have children from their marriage.

 

When you say that marriages where infidelity is involved go on and on, I strongly disagree. I know many people who have divorced over an affair.

 

The MM I was involved with had a 12-year old. After I told his wife about the affair, she divorced him. (I, however, was long gone)

 

I am not sure if the original poster means the marriages go on and on, even after the spouse finds out about the affair.

 

With regards to the affair pre-DDay while the wife is still oblivious, I think marriages with children definitely resist divorce because the children are the MM's ultimate excuse. It's the infamous "kid card". I've seen it used left and right. And a lot of OW go along with it and rationalize it because they feel bad for the MM and don't want to feel like they are making them choose between themselves and the children.

[herenow]

Y

With regards to the affair pre-DDay while the wife is still oblivious, I think marriages with children definitely resist divorce because the children are the MM's ultimate excuse. It's the infamous "kid card". I've seen it used left and right. And a lot of OW go along with it and rationalize it because they feel bad for the MM and don't want to feel like they are making them choose between themselves and the children.

 

Yes, but like you said, it's the kid card being played. Fact is the statistics stated by the OP proves that people do leave marriages, kids or no kids, every day. If the MM uses the kid card as justification to not leave the marriage, it's very possible that he just doesn't want to leave and anything he has with the OW is not enough to get him to leave his wife. If he didn't have kids, he would play the money card.

 

Now, someone will come here and say that what he has with his wife is not enough to keep him from the OW. I agree with that. I believe that MM have affairs because of what they are missing in themselves. In my opinion it has nothing to do with the BW, the OW or the marriage and everything to do with the MM.