Trimmer Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I am not sure if the original poster means the marriages go on and on, even after the spouse finds out about the affair. That seemed to be the context, and she also related it to the 50% marriage failure rate, which is a very long-term consideration. With regards to the affair pre-DDay while the wife is still oblivious, I think marriages with children definitely resist divorce because the children are the MM's ultimate excuse. It's the infamous "kid card". I've seen it used left and right. I don't want to get into OW bashing here, but doesn't it just add to the already sullied reputations of OW that a father's connection to his children would be considered "infamous", an "ultimate excuse", and a "kid card?" Isn't there something wrong with that? And a lot of OW go along with it and rationalize it because they feel bad for the MM and don't want to feel like they are making them choose between themselves and the children. I will openly take herenow's words out of context: Is this a bad thing? I don't think so. Link to post Share on other sites
Jess-Belle Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Yes, but like you said, it's the kid card being played. Fact is the statistics stated by the OP proves that people do leave marriages, kids or no kids, every day. If the MM uses the kid card as justification to not leave the marriage, it's very possible that he just doesn't want to leave and anything he has with the OW is not enough to get him to leave his wife. If he didn't have kids, he would play the money card. Exactly! There are many "cards". If OW tries to invalidate one, the other one comes up, and around and around it goes. The money card, where they don't want the wife to get part of what they worked for their whole life/they're approaching 50 and a divorce would take them financially back to square 1. Or the my wife is an evil bitch card, where the wife will take away the children or just make his life a living hell in general, plus she doesn't deserve half his assets dammit! The thing is though, the only thing that gives the cards any power is the OW. That's the trick of the MM -- they get you, the OW, to empathize with them, side with them. You as OW find yourself telling him you "understand". Because you have to, right? I mean you don't want to become a nagging bitch like his wife! You have to show him just how much you really really love him. Check out this gem from the MM I knew: the relationship length card. You wouldn't marry someone after only knowing them a few months, would you? Let's take our time getting to know each other. And then later: I don't even take the first two months into account, because you were so different back then! Sneaky fxcker, huh? Now, someone will come here and say that what he has with his wife is not enough to keep him from the OW. I agree with that. I believe that MM have affairs because of what they are missing in themselves. In my opinion it has nothing to do with the BW, the OW or the marriage and everything to do with the MM. Too right. Link to post Share on other sites
Mino Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I know of a couple, where the husband has bben unhappy for good 12 years. Has grown children, Has not had sex with wife in 10 years, he says. He is staying out of guilt. Wife is happy, hates sex, they have been married over 30 something years. He wish his wife would have an affair, so he can divorce her guilt free. He even said he would pay somebody to have sex with her, and then he felt he had a right to go. I feel sorry for him. I dont think he is cheating on her, nope he just suffers in silence, He is afraid of the cash he also has to put out on alimoney. SAD, Sad, I think. And she is happy as a clam..... Link to post Share on other sites
Jess-Belle Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I don't want to get into OW bashing here, but doesn't it just add to the already sullied reputations of OW that a father's connection to his children would be considered "infamous", an "ultimate excuse", and a "kid card?" Isn't there something wrong with that? Sure there is something wrong with that: because it isn't the real bottom line reason. The reason simply is, he just doesn't want to change the status quo. He can't come right out and say that though so he uses manipulation to garner sympathy. I'm not saying the man doesn't love his children, but the way the partial truths are applied to make the OW complacent is unnerving. Also, make of this what you will, but the MM I knew repeatedly swore on the life of his kid about things that turned out to be lies. Link to post Share on other sites
Jess-Belle Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I know of a couple, where the husband has bben unhappy for good 12 years. Has grown children, Has not had sex with wife in 10 years, he says. He is staying out of guilt. Wife is happy, hates sex, they have been married over 30 something years. He wish his wife would have an affair, so he can divorce her guilt free. He even said he would pay somebody to have sex with her, and then he felt he had a right to go. I feel sorry for him. I dont think he is cheating on her, nope he just suffers in silence, He is afraid of the cash he also has to put out on alimoney. SAD, Sad, I think. And she is happy as a clam..... I hope you aren't suggesting that his choice to stay and "suffer in silence" is somehow the wife's fault Link to post Share on other sites
Jess-Belle Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Yes, but like you said, it's the kid card being played. Fact is the statistics stated by the OP proves that people do leave marriages, kids or no kids, every day. If the MM uses the kid card as justification to not leave the marriage, it's very possible that he just doesn't want to leave and anything he has with the OW is not enough to get him to leave his wife. Just to reiterate why it's a "card"... when a man really wants to divorce his wife, he will not hesitate to do it even if he has children. It absolutely does not mean that he loves his children less than a MM, or that he minds any less than any other MM to no longer be with them every single day and live with them anymore. When a man wants to leave his wife he will leave and will adjust his life accordingly. My oldest brother has three young children and is divorced, and he is with them all the time, not to mention has an excellent relationship with his ex wife, whom my family adores. My youngest brother's first wife was a fricking nut and a whackjob, and they had a son together. He divorced her anyway, and he still sees his son all the time. OW, stop enabling MM to manipulate you. I know they present fantastic arguments but please, see the reality. None of those things matter to a man when he really wants to divorce his wife. Link to post Share on other sites
Mino Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Jesse Belle, well I think its both of their fault. She overlooks his pain, she is welll aware of it. But I think she also knows he character, weak... So she is content, No worries. But I think he is getting stronger, and eventually will leave. Then she will be quite surprised that she underestimated him. She was not willing to work on the m all these years.. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 That seemed to be the context, and she also related it to the 50% marriage failure rate, which is a very long-term consideration. I don't want to get into OW bashing here, but doesn't it just add to the already sullied reputations of OW that a father's connection to his children would be considered "infamous", an "ultimate excuse", and a "kid card?" Isn't there something wrong with that? I will openly take herenow's words out of context: What's wrong with that is the idea that a man who loves his children enough to stay married to a woman he doesn't love is, in my opinion, a martyr. A person who sacrifices his life that way doesn't seem to me to be the kind of a person who would have an affair knowing that others, including his children, could get hurt. Link to post Share on other sites
AlwaysTomorrow Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I think the difference is that either these wives never find out, or they DO find out and they cannot stand letting their husbands run off into the arms of another woman. If anything, it will probably make the wife want to have sex with her husband even more and try to make him think of her as sexy again. It's the competition thing that comes out. Link to post Share on other sites
AlwaysTomorrow Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 What's wrong with that is the idea that a man who loves his children enough to stay married to a woman he doesn't love is, in my opinion, a martyr. A person who sacrifices his life that way doesn't seem to me to be the kind of a person who would have an affair knowing that others, including his children, could get hurt. You're right, which is why I think the "children" excuse is just that: an excuse. The real reason is because it will not be beneficial to them in many ways; financially, socially, familial, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Does it occur to anyone here that the MM may actually realize that he loves his wife and that is why he stays? Just a thought. Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Does it occur to anyone here that the MM may actually realize that he loves his wife and that is why he stays? Just a thought. It's kinda hard to believe that when your H is over here whispering sweet nothings in my ear in his quest to get into my knickers. Hypothetically, of course. Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 America: you're a stressed-out, unhealthy, cheating, lying, immoral slut. But you're my stressed-out, unhealthy, cheating, lying, immoral slut, and I love ya! :D:D I'm right there with you, Trimmer!! Link to post Share on other sites
Jess-Belle Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Jesse Belle, well I think its both of their fault. She overlooks his pain, she is welll aware of it. But I think she also knows he character, weak... So she is content, No worries. But I think he is getting stronger, and eventually will leave. Then she will be quite surprised that she underestimated him. She was not willing to work on the m all these years.. It wasn't clear from your post, does he have a lover? Does his wife know about it and/or approve of it? I sometimes hear of these situations where the couple aren't in love anymore or whatnot, and they take on an open marriage but never divorce for whatever reason... my bf's cousin's parents are like that... I don't consider that cheating... Link to post Share on other sites
Jess-Belle Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Does it occur to anyone here that the MM may actually realize that he loves his wife and that is why he stays? Just a thought. From a former cheater perspective: sometimes out of "desperation" (for all you enablers out there thank you) you go out and get what you were missing and needing from your relationship with an affair partner. But eventually you come to realize you want your relationship partner to give you those things, the person you have the history and memories with, and yes, at some point, were very much in love with. That's when you snap out of the fantasy land and go back to your spouse/SO. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 It's kinda hard to believe that when your H is over here whispering sweet nothings in my ear in his quest to get into my knickers. Hypothetically, of course. Exactly what I expected. It's always possible that the MM loves the OW even though he goes home to his wife and whispers those same sweet nothings to her, but to love the wife, well that's just not possible. Is there a smiley face for double standards? Link to post Share on other sites
Jess-Belle Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Exactly what I expected. It's always possible that the MM loves the OW even though he goes home to his wife and whispers those same sweet nothings to her, but to love the wife, well that's just not possible. Is there a smiley face for double standards? From a former OW perspective: Deluding yourself about the wife and her relationship with MM is a favorite pastime. Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Exactly what I expected. It's always possible that the MM loves the OW even though he goes home to his wife and whispers those same sweet nothings to her, but to love the wife, well that's just not possible. Is there a smiley face for double standards? I didn't say anything about love. I'm sorry you took it that way. I don't think any MM who's bouncing back and forth between the W and the OW really knows who he loves. And even if he did, it's kind of a moot point from the W's and OW's perspective. The bottom line is, neither one is being treated fairly or respectfully, or being loved well. Link to post Share on other sites
Author JMC Posted March 7, 2008 Author Share Posted March 7, 2008 OB, you're funny!! You're my kinda gal! Err, dame/broad/dude...you know what I mean... Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 OB, you're funny!! You're my kinda gal! Err, dame/broad/dude...you know what I mean... Thanks JMC!! Love the kitty-kitty in your avatar! Link to post Share on other sites
Mino Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 It wasn't clear from your post, does he have a lover? Does his wife know about it and/or approve of it? I sometimes hear of these situations where the couple aren't in love anymore or whatnot, and they take on an open marriage but never divorce for whatever reason... my bf's cousin's parents are like that... I don't consider that cheating... Nope , No lover, never cheated. Very religious man. would not consider it. wierd in my book, Link to post Share on other sites
Jess-Belle Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Nope , No lover, never cheated. Very religious man. would not consider it. wierd in my book, Wow, that's amazing What a shame that his wife is abusing him in that manner. Hopefully he does leave to find happiness. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 (edited) I didn't say anything about love. I'm sorry you took it that way. I don't think any MM who's bouncing back and forth between the W and the OW really knows who he loves. And even if he did, it's kind of a moot point from the W's and OW's perspective. The bottom line is, neither one is being treated fairly or respectfully, or being loved well. We have had this conversation before so I think you know that I 'm talking about why a MM stays with his wife post d-day. What he does while he is actively participating in a affair shows lack of love for everyone including the BW, the OW and himself. I never said anything about MM who bounce back and forth. But as always, you are welcome to take what you want from my posts and create your own reality as to what you think they say. The point I was making and is that some MM do stay with the wife because they love her and not for any of the other excuses so often listed here. Also, it's a reasonable assumption that you were talking about love since this is the quote of mine you replied to: "Does it occur to anyone here that the MM may actually realize that he loves his wife and that is why he stays? Just a thought." and I was talking about love. Edited March 7, 2008 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Removed Inappropriate Comment Link to post Share on other sites
silktricks Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 To be fair, the thrust of this thread is in regards to marriages that continue while the affair is ongoing. So... the response of OpenBook about the MM staying married because he loved his wife was not that necessarily off the mark. I do agree with you Herenow, though about why a MM would stay after D-Day, and despite many protestations from some, it is IMO usually because at the moment of realizing he could lose her, he comes instead to realize that he loves her and wants to be married to her. Link to post Share on other sites
noforgiveness Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 The big question is why would an ow stay after dday? Dday is the OUT. The big excuse. The wife tells him to f off to leave. Do any ow really believe the mm don't beg their way back in? If he loves the ow and dday happens he will leave that night and be honest not beg his wife for forgiveness, BW's beg for the truth. This is when he needs to give it. Link to post Share on other sites
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