Why do these marriages seem to last so long?

[jton30]

the response of OpenBook about the MM staying married because he loved his wife was not that necessarily off the mark.

 

Someone who willfully betrays a spouse's trust, puts that spouse's well-being at severe risk and chooses to invest time, energy and emotion outside of that relationship certainly does NOT love his or her spouse.

 

It may be dependency, familiarity, obsession, security or any of a number of other things.

[OpenBook]

To be fair, the thrust of this thread is in regards to marriages that continue while the affair is ongoing. So... the response of OpenBook about the MM staying married because he loved his wife was not that necessarily off the mark.

 

Thanks Silk.

 

I do agree with you Herenow, though about why a MM would stay after D-Day, and despite many protestations from some, it is IMO usually because at the moment of realizing he could lose her, he comes instead to realize that he loves her and wants to be married to her.

 

I do acknowledge what you guys are saying, I really do. It's just so hard to comprehend if the love was really there to begin with, how the CS could make such a mockery of it with the infidelity?

 

Someone who willfully betrays a spouse's trust, puts that spouse's well-being at severe risk and chooses to invest time, energy and emotion outside of that relationship certainly does NOT love his or her spouse.

 

I agree Jton... I just don't see any love for the spouse behind that kind of behavior. And when they run back to the BS - like "Oh I FORGOT I loved you but it's all coming back to me now"??!?

 

I guess I'll never get it.

[Jess-Belle]

I do acknowledge what you guys are saying, I really do. It's just so hard to comprehend if the love was really there to begin with, how the CS could make such a mockery of it with the infidelity?

 

I just don't see any love for the spouse behind that kind of behavior. And when they run back to the BS - like "Oh I FORGOT I loved you but it's all coming back to me now"??!?

 

I guess I'll never get it.

 

It's not that they forgot, it could be any number of things. The relationship could be in a really bad state even though it was once good, perhaps the one doing the cheating is on the verge of giving up. Then it takes doing a massively screwed up thing like that to realize they don't want to leave their spouse, a taste of what it would really be like to lose it all, that inspires them to confront their spouse to get it all back the way it used to be. Mine was like that, sort of.

 

Or, maybe it could be brought on by a mid life crisis. Or they could just stupidly have started to take their spouse for granted (not uncommon in relationships imo).

 

I don't think every cheater is necessarily a case of a calculating douchebag who is incapable of loving.

 

Those are a couple of scenarios I can think of.

[RecordProducer]

I have often mused on why the crime rate in Europe is not as high as it is in the US. I, too, think there is a correlation. Could it be that people get out more, externalize their feelings in dance and song and red wine, are less isolated, have friends and enjoy their lives more? Europeans celebrate life in a more philosophical way- rolling with the punches I'd say and trying to make the best of any situation.

This could be true, but there are other factors involved, such as high diversity in everything. I must say that I haven't heard of too many cases of murdering a group of random people for no reason in countries other than America. I would attribute that to the somewhat stiff mentality on the one hand, and attempts to have a liberal society, on the other hand. E.g. the monster who killed 32 people at that college in Virginia was allegedly harassed for his accent.

 

In the US, people are trained to feel equal and when they don't feel equal, they develop rage. In Europe discrimination is more accepted by all members. That means, the person who gets teased for being different will not get so furious about it, because he accepts it, too. America washes brains about equal opportunity employment, diversity, etc. This was just an example of how puritanism and this "Why don't we all get along?" attitude may create fury in some individuals - because people's nature is not as cooperative and honest and pure, as the US system is trying to make it. This discrepancy produces part of the crime, IMO.

 

Another example, there are many poor people (usually of different races) who watch the wealthy ones and feel the rage of not being able to have equal opportunities. So they resort to crime, which puts them in a vicious circle that's hard to abandon. Then the society wants to help them and does something to prevent the inequality, which is good, but it takes time to achieve the goal. The more differences in income, culture, and status the more feelings of injustice arise. The privileged ones don't want the unprivileged ones in their environment and the latter hate the former. Anytime someone feels injustice, something bad is going to happen.

 

With all that being said, while gangs are not so prevalent in Europe as in the US, there is a lot of violence and sexual abuse that goes not only without retribution, but also unreported. In Europe the laws are not so stiff, or should I say, they are not so meticulously enforced, which gives people freedom to let their weaknesses, anger, and pain out in whatever ways they choose. However, this is nothing but letting the bad persist and go unpunished. E.g. fewer murders, but more alcoholics and car accidents. Also, a man in my country is very unlikely to kill his wife, because in case of divorce, she isn't getting half of what he made during the marriage, let alone that he made nothing or very little. So he can just divorce her.

 

All this doesn't mean that we should prevent women from getting money after a divorce, that we should let people get drunk and drive, and encourage discrimination just to lower the crime rate. In Europe the system is closer to anarchy when it comes to moral laws. And we know that any imposed moral laws create a lot of pressure for those who disagree with them. That Amish monster who killed those 7-year old girls would have probably just molested his daughter's friends, had he lived outside the Amish community which endorses moral purity. And we would have never found out about his crimes because they would have likely gone unreported.

[serial muse]

This could be true, but there are other factors involved, such as high diversity in everything. I must say that I haven't heard of too many cases of murdering a group of random people for no reason in countries other than America. I would attribute that to the somewhat stiff mentality on the one hand, and attempts to have a liberal society, on the other hand. E.g. the monster who killed 32 people at that college in Virginia was allegedly harassed for his accent.

 

In the US, people are trained to feel equal and when they don't feel equal, they develop rage. In Europe discrimination is more accepted by all members. That means, the person who gets teased for being different will not get so furious about it, because he accepts it, too. America washes brains about equal opportunity employment, diversity, etc. This was just an example of how puritanism and this "Why don't we all get along?" attitude may create fury in some individuals - because people's nature is not as cooperative and honest and pure, as the US system is trying to make it. This discrepancy produces part of the crime, IMO.

 

Another example, there are many poor people (usually of different races) who watch the wealthy ones and feel the rage of not being able to have equal opportunities. So they resort to crime, which puts them in a vicious circle that's hard to abandon. Then the society wants to help them and does something to prevent the inequality, which is good, but it takes time to achieve the goal. The more differences in income, culture, and status the more feelings of injustice arise. The privileged ones don't want the unprivileged ones in their environment and the latter hate the former. Anytime someone feels injustice, something bad is going to happen.

 

With all that being said, while gangs are not so prevalent in Europe as in the US, there is a lot of violence and sexual abuse that goes not only without retribution, but also unreported. In Europe the laws are not so stiff, or should I say, they are not so meticulously enforced, which gives people freedom to let their weaknesses, anger, and pain out in whatever ways they choose. However, this is nothing but letting the bad persist and go unpunished. E.g. fewer murders, but more alcoholics and car accidents. Also, a man in my country is very unlikely to kill his wife, because in case of divorce, she isn't getting half of what he made during the marriage, let alone that he made nothing or very little. So he can just divorce her.

 

All this doesn't mean that we should prevent women from getting money after a divorce, that we should let people get drunk and drive, and encourage discrimination just to lower the crime rate. In Europe the system is closer to anarchy when it comes to moral laws. And we know that any imposed moral laws create a lot of pressure for those who disagree with them. That Amish monster who killed those 7-year old girls would have probably just molested his daughter's friends, had he lived outside the Amish community which endorses moral purity. And we would have never found out about his crimes because they would have likely gone unreported.

 

Huh. You know, I read this post and said to myself, really? Because I can think of plenty of senseless mass killings in Europe and elsewhere around the world. I'm not going to say that the US doesn't have its share of issues and that the "Puritanical" ethic isn't responsible for plenty of repression, but I think this is painting it on a bit thick. It's not hard to verify; I decided to look up serial killers and mass murderers and crazy cult mass suicides and the like, just to see. And yep - it's not even remotely an American phenomenon. It's easy to point to the Va Tech killings. But what about the guy in Finland last November??

 

I do think that here in the US we tend to be workaholics and not recognize the innate "okay-ness" of taking big chunks of time to do things that aren't obviously productive but that just increase the pleasure of life. Of course, we're not alone in that (see: Japan). But it's absolutely true that whenever I go overseas I enjoy the feeling that it's okay to take time to just exist.

 

On the other hand, it's a far cry from that to saying that America produces more senseless mass killings than other places in the world. I can't help it, my eyes are just rolling back in my head over this one. :rolleyes:

 

Anyhoo: topic. I do think that many times, people stay because they've had a wakeup call and realize that they do want what they already had. Sure, some people stay out of fear. But others stay because they are faced with making a choice, and they make it.

 

I was a BS, and I left. I had a wakeup call of my own, and I was faced with that same choice, and so - I decided I didn't want to stay. I simply decided that he wasn't what I wanted. Which is why I can see how someone who stays might be making the opposite choice. It's not always about the kids or the finances. Sometimes it's just about the wakeup call.

Edited March 7, 2008 by serial muse

[OWoman]

Sometimes it's just about the wakeup call.

 

Sometimes the wake-up call makes people decide "yes"

Sometimes it makes them decide "no"

And sometimes it makes them terrified of making any decisions for fear of it being the wrong decision that they let their choice be dictated by force of circumstance, and then whine about being unhappy.

[White Flower]

This is what I talked about confront, but confront doesn't mean you have to cheat

 

 

the belief becomes "romantic endings at the cost of our partner or others" intead of our health:o, a person who willingly gives love more is always the happy one, you have to have love source that doesn't come from impefect human. Maybe person who never experienced God's love will endlessly seek the perfect love of God from human which is impossible?

 

I guess 'romantic love' isn't same as 'dedicated love', romantic love can come and go, dedicated love is forever and nuture romantic love

 

Sorry I was gone for over a day and couldn't respond sooner.

 

I don't know how old you are or if you've ever been married, but it appears you're thoughts on the subject are ideal and not yet experienced or perhaps not yet experienced long-term. I was so much (not such much as I mistakenly typed earlier in this thread, lol) like you. I was very dedicated, nurturing, godly, and even romantic. I wasn't talking about the fleeting romance people feel at the beginning of love; I was talking about the happy ending people believe in and hope for and are willing to achieve at all costs even if loyalty, dedication, faithfulness, respect, and even love have diminished.

 

When all those fade and people remain married, their goal is fostered by other intentions such as a false sense of pride that they've made it through and they must be great people if their spouse hasn't left them by now, etc. For my spouse, he feels a great sense of failure (which is ridiculous) and still does not want me telling his family even though we've started the D.

[OWoman]

II view the line in this OP about marriages with children resisting divorce, as another attempt to say that MM stay with their BW for the sake of the kids.

 

From my point of view, most of the people who I know that have gotten divorced ACTUALLY HAVE CHILDREN.

 

Yes but they don't have guilt. Introduce an A into the equation and the guilt quotient rockets.

[serial muse]

Sometimes the wake-up call makes people decide "yes"

Sometimes it makes them decide "no"

And sometimes it makes them terrified of making any decisions for fear of it being the wrong decision that they let their choice be dictated by force of circumstance, and then whine about being unhappy.

 

Well, yeah. That's pretty much what I said - sometimes the fear paralyzes people, but many times people are actually making a choice to stay. Why take that away from them?

[eeyore1980]

Sorry, but this is a naive and dangerous attitude to have in the real world. It all depends on how your "another" handles it. Often IRL, they take advantage of it and run all over you. It does not reap happiness unless BOTH parties in the M embrace this concept wholeheartedly. If only one person does, a dangerous and unhealthy imbalance results.

 

Yes, and I am the living proof of it.

[RecordProducer]

Huh. You know, I read this post and said to myself, really? Because I can think of plenty of senseless mass killings in Europe and elsewhere around the world.

Ok, maybe I was wrong about the statistics of senseless mass killing of random innocents, but that was just one example to explain my theory. I was talking about how crime evolves and that was just my view. If you read critically, you'd see that I was defending the US society in the sense that it propagates a more pure society, which is a good final goal - but as all good things difficult to achieve in a short period.

 

By the way, "Compared to the United States, Statistics Canada data have consistently demonstrated a substantially lower rate of violent crime... Canada's crime rate is close to the averages in Western Europe or Australia but with differences. Property crime is lower than in some nations (e.g., United Kingdom, Sweden), and significantly lower than Australia but higher than in others (e.g., Spain, France). The violent crime rate (i.e., murder, weapons offenses and rape) is higher than most western European nations, in some cases more than double..."

 

This is from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Canada It happens to be about Canada, but you can see statistics for other countries, as well.

[Lookingforward]

I don't understand it either.........

 

In my case, once my MM decided he was returning to his M to "try one last time to be really sure" that was it. Aside from the limited contact circumstances required, there was NC - no begging and pleading from me, no him expecting me to be satisfied with being an OW. Of course mine may have been a little different, he didn't leave for me, he left for himself.

 

Going back was something he felt he had to do, so be it. If further down the line it doesn't work out and he decides he wants to be with me after all, I'll deal with that when and if it happens.

 

If a man (or woman) decides to really try to work things out in their M, the OP should have the grace and manners to bow out. Yes it hurts, and it's hard, no-one says it isn't, but for me it's an either/or situation.

 

I don't share well in any case - to share a man with his kids after separation/divorce is one thing, to share a man with a wife he's still living with isn't in my lexicon.

 

There's no reason I can see for it to go "on and on".

[Jess-Belle]

I don't share well in any case - to share a man with his kids after separation/divorce is one thing, to share a man with a wife he's still living with isn't in my lexicon.

 

Upps, there's that 'ownership and entitlement' thing...

 

Sorry, that was too easy

[Mino]

Ok, maybe I was wrong about the statistics of senseless mass killing of random innocents, but that was just one example to explain my theory. I was talking about how crime evolves and that was just my view. If you read critically, you'd see that I was defending the US society in the sense that it propagates a more pure society, which is a good final goal - but as all good things difficult to achieve in a short period.

 

By the way, "Compared to the United States, Statistics Canada data have consistently demonstrated a substantially lower rate of violent crime... Canada's crime rate is close to the averages in Western Europe or Australia but with differences. Property crime is lower than in some nations (e.g., United Kingdom, Sweden), and significantly lower than Australia but higher than in others (e.g., Spain, France). The violent crime rate (i.e., murder, weapons offenses and rape) is higher than most western European nations, in some cases more than double..."

 

This is from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Canada It happens to be about Canada, but you can see statistics for other countries, as well.

Did I read this right, Americans a more " PURE SocietyY"???? Hello, I think there is no such thing as "pure" I think people here hide things better, People shun porn, protitution, but its done in secrecy, behind close doors, in the desert. In Europe that is out in the open , controlled. So when someone pays for Sex on Friday ( with a prositute who is not checked weekly my doc for std by the way) and goes to church on Sunday that makres them "pure", to who ? the neighbors? Edited March 8, 2008 by Mino
misspelling

[Lookingforward]

Upps, there's that 'ownership and entitlement' thing...

 

Sorry, that was too easy

 

Sorry, but I don't see any 'ownership and entitlement' thinking in what I posted.

 

Seems you have a problem with me refusing to 'admit' I was an OW, Jess

 

If you don't like the way I see, feel free to ignore me

[silktricks]

I do acknowledge what you guys are saying, I really do. It's just so hard to comprehend if the love was really there to begin with, how the CS could make such a mockery of it with the infidelity?

 

I agree Jton... I just don't see any love for the spouse behind that kind of behavior. And when they run back to the BS - like "Oh I FORGOT I loved you but it's all coming back to me now"??!?

 

I guess I'll never get it.

 

I think that you'll probably never "get it" unless it happens to you, personally. Because what you've written is not what happens.

 

I've known a few couples where one or the other cheated, and the marriage recovered. Those situations (including my own) were very similar.

 

The emotions of the cheater starts out as pain. That pain is usually caused by the fact that they think their spouse no longer loves them. From that pain comes anger. The anger is mostly directed at the spouse - who from the point of view of the potential cheater has put someone/something in front of them. At that point, they (the cheaters) act like children and go into payback mode - you hurt me, so I'm going to hurt you back.

 

It's really not that they "forgot" they loved their spouse. It's that they are so angry with them, they can't feel love. They feel angry. When the cheating comes out, the reaction of the BS - the evidence of their pain - shows the WS that they really are loved. That's generally when they can see that their spouse loving them is what they really wanted anyway. And that is when they can start actually fixing their marriage if they both want to badly enough.

 

The above scenario is obviously not true in all cases and I'm not pretending to say that it is. But it is most definitely true in some cases.

[Lookingforward]

If he didn't love her he wouldn't have tried for years to overcome her initial betrayal of that love and their marriage.

 

But that doesn't mean he didn't fall in love with me.

 

That's part of what's so sad about it all, what he REALLY wants is to feel the love for him from her the way he felt it from me. I really hope that going back knowing how it feels to be loved for himself, not for what he can provide or the fact they have a piece of paper, he can somehow get what he needs from her after all this time.

 

What makes me sad is that I DO love him and don't think it's going to work and loving him I hate to think of him in that situation again.

 

I am hopeful she has "seen the light" this time and that they are truly working on their marriage, rather than just restoring the status quo to what it was before he moved out.

[silktricks]

But that doesn't mean he didn't fall in love with me.

 

Of course it doesn't.

 

Sometimes the cheater falls in love with new person, sometimes they don't...

 

Fortunately for my husband and me, he didn't.

[Lookingforward]

I think that you'll probably never "get it" unless it happens to you, personally. Because what you've written is not what happens.

 

I've known a few couples where one or the other cheated, and the marriage recovered. Those situations (including my own) were very similar.

 

The emotions of the cheater starts out as pain. That pain is usually caused by the fact that they think their spouse no longer loves them. From that pain comes anger. The anger is mostly directed at the spouse - who from the point of view of the potential cheater has put someone/something in front of them. At that point, they (the cheaters) act like children and go into payback mode - you hurt me, so I'm going to hurt you back.

 

It's really not that they "forgot" they loved their spouse. It's that they are so angry with them, they can't feel love. They feel angry. When the cheating comes out, the reaction of the BS - the evidence of their pain - shows the WS that they really are loved. That's generally when they can see that their spouse loving them is what they really wanted anyway. And that is when they can start actually fixing their marriage if they both want to badly enough.

 

The above scenario is obviously not true in all cases and I'm not pretending to say that it is. But it is most definitely true in some cases.

 

You're right there silk, I saw a LOT of pain and anger in my MM over his wife's betrayal and lack of love for him and this is one of the things they need to work through before the M is either "healed" or truly over.

 

He wasn't ready to have a new relationship, not really, even though he wanted to try.

[White Flower]

I think that you'll probably never "get it" unless it happens to you, personally. Because what you've written is not what happens.

 

I've known a few couples where one or the other cheated, and the marriage recovered. Those situations (including my own) were very similar.

 

The emotions of the cheater starts out as pain. That pain is usually caused by the fact that they think their spouse no longer loves them. From that pain comes anger. The anger is mostly directed at the spouse - who from the point of view of the potential cheater has put someone/something in front of them. At that point, they (the cheaters) act like children and go into payback mode - you hurt me, so I'm going to hurt you back.

 

It's really not that they "forgot" they loved their spouse. It's that they are so angry with them, they can't feel love. They feel angry. When the cheating comes out, the reaction of the BS - the evidence of their pain - shows the WS that they really are loved. That's generally when they can see that their spouse loving them is what they really wanted anyway. And that is when they can start actually fixing their marriage if they both want to badly enough.

 

The above scenario is obviously not true in all cases and I'm not pretending to say that it is. But it is most definitely true in some cases.

I have to say this is one of the best explanations I've heard from a recovered (is it ok to say that?) BS in a long time. It rings true and is simplified enough for all to understand.

 

I have a friend who went through this exactly and when she realized just how much her H was hurt and how much he truly loved her she ended the A and together they worked on their M. I even wondered if that could happen for me, but my H was not hurt; just bitter.

 

I think he was really out of love already and I think that is why I justified my wandering. The A also helped me to decide on proceeding with the D. I wouldn't call it the 'exit affair', but it did and still does help me go through with my decision.

[silktricks]

I have to say this is one of the best explanations I've heard from a recovered (is it ok to say that?) BS in a long time. It rings true and is simplified enough for all to understand.

 

You can say recovered as far as I'm concerned, 'cuz that's exactly what it feels like. And thank-you for the compliment!!

[RecordProducer]

Did I read this right, Americans a more " PURE SocietyY"???? Hello, I think there is no such thing as "pure" I think people here hide things better, People shun porn, protitution, but its done in secrecy, behind close doors, in the desert. In Europe that is out in the open , controlled. So when someone pays for Sex on Friday ( with a prositute who is not checked weekly my doc for std by the way) and goes to church on Sunday that makres them "pure", to who ? the neighbors?

People in the US are more honest and obsessed with morality. I know Americans who refuse to socialize with cheaters. In Europe, you won't find that. Porn is not unpure in my book. And religion is not pure.

[Owl]

Call me obsessed then. I've never approved of cheating. I always figured the same thing I talk about here...if you're unhappy, then you either do something to fix the situation, or you leave.

 

Cheating is the option of the truly selfish.

 

I won't remain friends with someone who is currently cheating on their spouse, nor will I assist them in their efforts to lie to their spouse.

 

If they decide to end the cheating and come clean to their spouse, I'd willingly resume that friendship.

 

I don't see a single thing wrong with having that kind of mindset.

[nadiaj2727]

Call me obsessed then. I've never approved of cheating. I always figured the same thing I talk about here...if you're unhappy, then you either do something to fix the situation, or you leave.

 

Cheating is the option of the truly selfish.

 

I won't remain friends with someone who is currently cheating on their spouse, nor will I assist them in their efforts to lie to their spouse.

 

If they decide to end the cheating and come clean to their spouse, I'd willingly resume that friendship.

 

I don't see a single thing wrong with having that kind of mindset.

 

I don't see anything wrong with that mindset either Owl. I'm not religious and I don't understand what porn and religion etc. have to do with the subject of cheating (but I guess I didn't read those parts carefully so I can't comment on that.)

 

To me, religion and values are completely separate things. I have made huge mistakes in the past (which I am *glad* my true friends did not enable, because they knew they were self-destructive), from which I have learned and grown. I want to live with integrity and do the right thing -- and I am not religious one bit, I am completely agnostic, although I like the term "secular humanist" better. I do not believe I have to be religious to one day take a marriage vow to my partner in front of our family and friends, and mean it and live up to it.

 

Nor do I think I have to be religious to not cheat on someone or help someone cheat on someone else. I think I just have to be a good person with respect for others, respect for myself, and proper boundaries. That has nothing to do with religion. (And I don't consider porn wrong unless it gets in the way of a relationship or is hidden like an affair, etc... but that is a whole different topic I guess.)

 

I think we should all -- Americans, Europeans, whoever -- try to be good people and not hurt each other, which means not cheating (meaning lying to the person who thinks thinks s/he is in a committed and trust-worthy relationship with us, based on our own words and promises). If RecordProducer is complaining that Americans are more "moral" than Europeans because we have a bigger issue with cheating and lying (I am not quite sure that's what she's saying but it sounded like it), well then I say good for us. At least we're getting one thing right.

[MimiMe]

That is an excellant question!!! You know I have to say this , I dont want to offend anyone here, so please, this is only my Opinion. I have lived in europe and In the US. I believe it is more of an American view to stay at all cost. The european view is different. In Europe, we live differently. Life is more simple, I think people live more freely, enjoy life more. Here in the US, its alot about the material things in life. The teens in Europe are taught more independent. Here in the US, especially girls, are taught to find a husband who takes care of them. I went on to marriage builders a few days ago and I was appaled to what I read. There was a woman who complained her H was on his 7 affair!! He now wanted to bring OW home to his W house!! He wanted his wife to welcome her!! So this woman was asking the other BS of what she should do. Most Of them said " Honey, just irgnor him when he brings it up again. Be nice to him, cook him nice dinners, be sweet and loving, I thought OH MY GOD!! what kind of SH$$ is that? 7 affairs, and she is still be nice, and all her peers are advising her to be sweet to him. I dont get it? A European woman would have thrown him out to the curb on the second one. First one after many years, and he shows remorse, forgivable, but one after another, after another after another????? 7 , he was on the 7 th!!! Then I have to think, its all on the culture of how one was raised. I guess being diviorced in the US is like a black mark or something. People will look the other way , be unhappy, just not be divorced. Its a mystery to me. Funny crime rate is higher here in the US too, wonder if there is a link? Forgive me BS I do not want to offend anyone, I am sure I will be flamed for this one:o But again this is an observation I have made already many many years ago, I see it on the teens, there hopes, there dreams, so very different between cultures.

 

I dont know where in the US you live but sounds more like the 3rd world nations I have lived at. LOL! Having also lived in Europe- Yes, I agree with you in regards to how immoral this WORLD has become, but will have to disagree on the "european women" and "US girls are taught to find a H to take care of them" comment.

In third world nations, women live with men that have multiple families simultaneosly- where your "step-sister" is 2 days older and your "step-brother" 3 weeks younger and all live in a 3 mile radius. Very common!!! Especially in Latin America. Where also, women have no education and settle to living below normal conditions with men who abuse them, impregnate them back to back and have several others in the same situation.

Europe being more modern still have a lot of the old values where men also had multiple families. This was and still is a sense of "machismo" and a status of power in many places. In Russia, many powerful men live this way, because they are "powerful" and they "can do that", almost as if they walked on water.

It's cultural and home-based related but dont say that this is a "western civilization" thing.