We're getting divorced

[daisygirl]

For those of you who don't know it, here's my first thread that tells my story: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t145326/

 

Now, H told me the other day that we're done, he doesn't want to try MC (to be fair, neither of us were optimistic about it, but I was at least willing to go), and he wants to divorce. He told me to sleep in the guest room and get a job ASAP and move out. He's going to fight me for full custody of our 2 y/o son.

 

But here's what he said to me last night...He still barely accepts any responsibility for our marriage failing. I admit, I made many mistakes, but he said his only mistake was working too much. He also said that when our son is old enough to understand, he's going to tell him that I was the one that mainly caused the divorce. This hurt me like you wouldn't believe. And he said that he'll never forgive me for causing the divorce. How am I supposed to handle that? I guess IC will help....I hope so.

 

Thinking back, I did mess up. I was unhappy for so long, and was too scared to say anything, so I ended up resenting my H. I should have had the guts to say something sooner. I always "suggested" MC to H and he said no, but I am sure I could have tried harder and been more honest with him from the beginning.

 

Has anyone else had a ex-spouse tell them that they will never forgive them? How do you deal with that? I can handle the M being over, but I can't deal with a statement like that.

[clandestinidad]

I think he's really hurting about the situation, and it's coming out as defensive anger. Deep down he knows its not your fault. But to say those things about you to your child when he's old enough!! That would only hurt the child. It's sad that he doesn't see that. When people say things like that to children it only drives a deep wedge between that person and the child. It makes them choose, like pick sides, and hurts them that someone would speak badly about someone they love.

 

Depending on what state you live in, no one can be awarded full custody unless there have been extreme situations. Most states require shared custody so that both parents have access to the child in order to continue a relationship. Heck, even murderers in prison have supervised visitation with their children. So, the chances of anyone getting sole custody is very slim.

 

I will say that courts typically despise these cases, and award primary custody to the parent who tried keeping the child out of such a hurtful dispute. So try everything you can to prevent a full custody dispute.

 

Anyway, try not to let the things that he says affect you. He's only saying them to hurt you because he is hurting. His comments don't mean anything. They really don't mean anything now that he's wanting a divorce. The relationship seems to be over, so the affect he has on you is over too. Easier said than done, I know. But you must try to train yourself to dismiss him now. He is divorcing you, cutting you off, so now it's you and your son. Your ex will not control your feelings or actions anymore, that's up to you.

[daisygirl]

I think he's really hurting about the situation, and it's coming out as defensive anger. Deep down he knows its not your fault. But to say those things about you to your child when he's old enough!! That would only hurt the child. It's sad that he doesn't see that. When people say things like that to children it only drives a deep wedge between that person and the child. It makes them choose, like pick sides, and hurts them that someone would speak badly about someone they love.

 

Depending on what state you live in, no one can be awarded full custody unless there have been extreme situations. Most states require shared custody so that both parents have access to the child in order to continue a relationship. Heck, even murderers in prison have supervised visitation with their children. So, the chances of anyone getting sole custody is very slim.

 

I will say that courts typically despise these cases, and award primary custody to the parent who tried keeping the child out of such a hurtful dispute. So try everything you can to prevent a full custody dispute.

 

Anyway, try not to let the things that he says affect you. He's only saying them to hurt you because he is hurting. His comments don't mean anything. They really don't mean anything now that he's wanting a divorce. The relationship seems to be over, so the affect he has on you is over too. Easier said than done, I know. But you must try to train yourself to dismiss him now. He is divorcing you, cutting you off, so now it's you and your son. Your ex will not control your feelings or actions anymore, that's up to you.

 

Thanks so much for your kind words I appreciate it. I admit that I made some horrible mistakes and was not the best wife, but I am trying my best to learn from them and make myself a better person through all of this. For some reason, I still don't want STBX to think of me as a bad person....I need to get a tougher skin!!

[georgia girl]

Daisygirl,

 

There's a line from a really bad old movie that said, "Jes*s, everything ends badly. Otherwise, it wouldn't end."

 

Your husband is angry and hurt and he's probably going to say a lot of not-so-nice things. First, from your post describing your marriage, this emotional distance and controlling with words/acts was always his style and why you weren't happy in the marriage. Second, he's now the injured party. Like it or not, he may have been a jerk, but you're the one who started dating while still married. Not saying there weren't some extenuating circumstances, but in his mind, your bad act trumps anything he may have ever done.

 

My advice? Grow a thick skin and don't retaliate. In the end, your baby becomes the victim. If things between mom and dad deteriorate to a point that there can be no civility, that baby ends up living in two fractured worlds. Let your husband be angry and say things. Hopefully, eventually he'll cool down and come to the table of shared custody with his intentions squarely in the right place. He also may not. That's his choice and while you can control how you respond to other people, you can not control their responses. In the meantime, by staying above the fray, you'll have preserved a calm and less contentious world for yourself and your son. It will only serve you in the long run.

[Curmudgeon]

Has anyone else had a ex-spouse tell them that they will never forgive them? How do you deal with that? I can handle the M being over, but I can't deal with a statement like that.

 

I used to hear that constantly. Her other favorite was, "Sorry doesn't fix it!" After hearing that incessantly I finally stopped apologizing for anything, even if I was in the wrong. Why bother?

 

We've been divorced for 14 years. She still hates me. She'll never in life forgive me for whatever ills, real or imagined, she thinks I committed. She alienated my children from me, all five of them and two of them, the youngest, severely.

 

So, I deal with that is how I have dealt with her for many years now. First of all I forgave her for her part in the downfall of the marriage. She doesn't know that and doesn't have to. I did it for me. It's a way to let go emotionally and the person and the issues surrounding them cease to matter. It allows you to achieve indifference where they're concerned.

 

I concentrated on myself and fixed what needed fixing. I perservered with my children to fix my relationships with them. They're all now adults and all five of them and I get along beautifully. Four of the five want little or nothing to do with their mother, however, not because of anything I've ever said or done but because of the way she is.

 

Meanwhile I simply got on with my life. I've not seen nor spoken with the ex in years and since she's moved 1,200 miles away, may never do so again and that's fine with me.

 

The bottom line is that life goes on and you will too. The only person he'll ultimately hurt with his current attitude is himself, and perhaps your child. It sounds like he needs to grow up. To alienate a child from the other parent without cause (such as endangerment) is nothing less than emotional child abuse!

 

Keep your sights set on the future and you'll be fine.

[Ariadne]

Thinking back, I did mess up. I was unhappy for so long, and was too scared to say anything, so I ended up resenting my H. I should have had the guts to say something sooner.

 

No, you didn't mess up at all. I just saw your other thread.

 

That guy just used you to get the papers. That's all. He ignored you later on and didn't want anything to do with you. You were a means to his papers.

 

Guys like that disregard American women as whres and just want to marry a muslim girl.

 

And now for sure he'll want to keep your son. Especially if he's a boy.

 

Don't even think of telling him about your EA, I'd say. That was not a marriage, it was a business for him.

 

If you tell him that, he'd definitely use it against you and never let you see your son again.

 

It'd be very difficult now with your son, because even if you have the custody (cross your fingers here) he'll try and take him away or just give you hell.

 

Try and be like a muslim girl now at least for him to be reasonable in the divorce. Threaten him with going to immigration and bust him that he married you for the papers if he gets nasty about your son. He must be very affraid of immigration being an Arab.

 

For guys in those cultures the most important thing is a boy, and also, the boy belongs to them.

 

Good luck!

[daisygirl]

Daisygirl,

My advice? Grow a thick skin and don't retaliate. In the end, your baby becomes the victim. If things between mom and dad deteriorate to a point that there can be no civility, that baby ends up living in two fractured worlds. Let your husband be angry and say things. Hopefully, eventually he'll cool down and come to the table of shared custody with his intentions squarely in the right place. He also may not. That's his choice and while you can control how you respond to other people, you can not control their responses. In the meantime, by staying above the fray, you'll have preserved a calm and less contentious world for yourself and your son. It will only serve you in the long run.

 

Thanks for the advice I hope H will cool down soon too. It's going to be hard for us living together until I find a job and place to live.

 

The bottom line is that life goes on and you will too. The only person he'll ultimately hurt with his current attitude is himself, and perhaps your child. It sounds like he needs to grow up. To alienate a child from the other parent without cause (such as endangerment) is nothing less than emotional child abuse!

 

Keep your sights set on the future and you'll be fine.

 

Thanks for sharing your story! I guess some people never can forgive. I'm sorry your ex did that to you, especially by trying to alienate your children from you. Glad you all have a good relationship now

 

No, you didn't mess up at all. I just saw your other thread.

 

That guy just used you to get the papers. That's all. He ignored you later on and didn't want anything to do with you. You were a means to his papers.

 

Guys like that disregard American women as whres and just want to marry a muslim girl.

 

And now for sure he'll want to keep your son. Especially if he's a boy.

 

Don't even think of telling him about your EA, I'd say. That was not a marriage, it was a business for him.

 

If you tell him that, he'd definitely use it against you and never let you see your son again.

 

It'd be very difficult now with your son, because even if you have the custody (cross your fingers here) he'll try and take him away or just give you hell.

 

Try and be like a muslim girl now at least for him to be reasonable in the divorce. Threaten him with going to immigration and bust him that he married you for the papers if he gets nasty about your son. He must be very affraid of immigration being an Arab.

 

For guys in those cultures the most important thing is a boy, and also, the boy belongs to them.

 

Good luck!

 

Thanks so much! And for the record, although he did initially ask me to marry him for his green card, over time, I do believe he cared for me, but I don't think it was ever "true love" for either of us. And I knew what I was getting into (or SHOULD have known), so I am just as much to blame for the hasty wedding. Like I said before, hindsight is 20/20.

[Nomad1]

Ariadne - Is there such a thing as a typical Muslim woman? How many Arab countries have you visited?

 

Daisygirl - Give it time. He will realise how important it is to have both parents involved in child rearing. He is clearly angry at the moment and is not thinking straight.

 

Take care

 

Nomad1

[daisygirl]

Ariadne - Is there such a thing as a typical Muslim woman? How many Arab countries have you visited?

 

Daisygirl - Give it time. He will realise how important it is to have both parents involved in child rearing. He is clearly angry at the moment and is not thinking straight.

 

Take care

 

Nomad1

 

Thanks for the input, Nomad

[Ariadne]

Thanks so much! And for the record, although he did initially ask me to marry him for his green card, over time, I do believe he cared for me, but I don't think it was ever "true love" for either of us. And I knew what I was getting into (or SHOULD have known), so I am just as much to blame for the hasty wedding. Like I said before, hindsight is 20/20.

 

Well, that's good that he cares for you.

 

You can sort of count on that so that he won't screw you up with your son.

 

But if he finds out about that EA or any little thing you are done.

 

Good luck with it all.

 

Btw, I dated a few Arab guys and married an Israeli. I'm quite familiar with the mentality.

[daisygirl]

Well, that's good that he cares for you.

 

You can sort of count on that so that he won't screw you up with your son.

 

But if he finds out about that EA or any little thing you are done.

 

Good luck with it all.

 

Btw, I dated a few Arab guys and married an Israeli. I'm quite familiar with the mentality.

 

I know I cannot let him find out about the EA...I hate to be deceitful, but I cannot lose my son.

 

And, yes, I know what you mean about the mentality...it's sometimes hard to see until you live with someone like that.

[twice_shy]

For those of you who don't know it, here's my first thread that tells my story: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t145326/

 

Now, H told me the other day that we're done, he doesn't want to try MC (to be fair, neither of us were optimistic about it, but I was at least willing to go), and he wants to divorce. He told me to sleep in the guest room and get a job ASAP and move out. He's going to fight me for full custody of our 2 y/o son.

 

But here's what he said to me last night...He still barely accepts any responsibility for our marriage failing. I admit, I made many mistakes, but he said his only mistake was working too much.

 

Well? Could he be right? Or is there more to it?

 

 

He also said that when our son is old enough to understand, he's going to tell him that I was the one that mainly caused the divorce. This hurt me like you wouldn't believe. And he said that he'll never forgive me for causing the divorce. How am I supposed to handle that? I guess IC will help....I hope so.

 

Well I will never, EVER say anything to my kids by bringing it to their attention about my XW being a cheating huss.

 

But when they are older and ONLY if they ask what happened, I WILL tell them the truth. I'm not going to lie to them.

 

 

Has anyone else had a ex-spouse tell them that they will never forgive them? How do you deal with that? I can handle the M being over, but I can't deal with a statement like that.

 

I never told my X that I wouldn't forgive her, but I think she knows that I won't.

 

For me personally, I don't care. What I won't forgive her for is caring more how many men gets between her legs than for what happens to her family. She uprooted my children's lives. Me? I'm better off and loving life again, but for my kids, its a nightmare.

 

so question is, why do you really care if he doesn't forgive you? You sought out another man. Obviously you wanted something else. If he doesn't want to forgive you, I don't know, if I were in your shoes, if I'd really care.

[Woggle]

I don't think that he should have involved your child but to be fair you did betray him and you did go behind his back so his anger is understandable. He didn't sign up for this and he is hurting right now.

[daisygirl]

Well? Could he be right? Or is there more to it?

 

Yes, IMO there is more to it. I felt emotionally negected, was sexually rejected, not to mention he has a horrible temper and was always criticizing me. No, I'm not saying those were good reasons for me to run to another man. I was wrong to do that. I will have to live with it the rest of my life, but I was willing to try MC and see if we could figure out what we BOTH did wrong. He's not willing to go, so what more can I do?

 

 

 

For me personally, I don't care. What I won't forgive her for is caring more how many men gets between her legs than for what happens to her family. She uprooted my children's lives. Me? I'm better off and loving life again, but for my kids, its a nightmare.

 

so question is, why do you really care if he doesn't forgive you? You sought out another man. Obviously you wanted something else. If he doesn't want to forgive you, I don't know, if I were in your shoes, if I'd really care.

 

I know I shouldn't really care, and I am sure one day I'll get over it. But right now, we are living together, and I am the mother of his child, so to a point, I do care.

 

I don't think that he should have involved your child but to be fair you did betray him and you did go behind his back so his anger is understandable. He didn't sign up for this and he is hurting right now.

 

Again, he still does not know about the EA. Telling him would mean risking losing my child. I know how my H would react if I told him...he'd never forgive me and would use it against me forever. Like I said before, I know the EA was horrible, but I can't go back and make it go away, I wish I could. But our M was falling apart long before that. So why is he so angry? I guess because he's blaming me for our M failing.

Edited March 10, 2008 by daisygirl

[twice_shy]

I know I shouldn't really care, and I am sure one day I'll get over it. But right now, we are living together, and I am the mother of his child, so to a point, I do care.

 

Well one thing you have to realize is, no matter what one thinks led up to an affair, what matters is the affair did happen. He is angry, and he will be angry for a long long time.

 

Now what I'm about to say isn't to hurt you or slam you, I am going to tell you what is probably going through his mind because the same things went through my mind.

 

Right now he considers you a "wh0re". He will probably be out telling people that you are one. I'm not saying you are one. I'm just letting you know the emotions and anger that go through someone's mind when they are betrayed.

 

I did the same thing. Now that things have been over for a while and I know I am better off without her, all that has subsided. As far as telling my kids what she did if they ask when they get older, I'm still going to tell them the truth, but only if they ask.

 

But he may have this anger for quite some time. Maybe when he moves on and finds another woman that can change his outlook on things, as happened to me, he will stop with those kinds of thoughts.

 

But for right now he is angry, and its gonna be that way for quite a while, years even.

[daisygirl]

So, yesterday, H tells me that now he DOES want to try MC (we had an appt. yesterday and he told me to cancel it because he didn't want to try). He told me this was our last chance, but that he only wants to try for our son, not for me. He said he doesn't picture us being together forever, but thinks it would be better if we could try until our son is older (2-3 more years) so that our son will understand more of what's going on. I am so f-ing sick of this. I am to the point that I don't even want to do MC, especially if he just sees it as a temporary fix. Maybe I am selfish, but I don't want to be in a marriage where both of us don't see it lasting forever. What's the point?

 

He told all of this to me right before he was leaving for the gym and asked me, "Do you want to try again, yes or no?" He said he needed an answer before he left or he'd take it as a "no". I said yes, but deep down, I didn't want to. I pretty much feel NOTHING for H right now. He was trying to kiss me and have sex with me and I wanted nothing of it. I was actually feeling relieved about the D, and now I feel uncomfortable about trying for a M that I don't really want anymore.

 

Any thoughts??

Edited March 11, 2008 by daisygirl
typos

[guessjeans]

I would say NO! I would let him get a taste of part time fatherhood, and being alone. I would give him distance to see if he misses his old life. I would allow time for YOU to get YOU back!

 

Start going to the gym. It does wonders for the self confidence...it really does. Start going out with friends for an evening every once in awhile. Dont ever let anyone give you ultimatiums about YOUR life! You have given him way tooooo much power over you, and the situation. He will not dictate the terms of your marriage! No bloody way!

 

He wants out..then let him out. I would shock the hell out of him by saying, you know what, in second thought, I dont want you as a husband anymore..i wont accept your terms of this marriage, I deserve better than that. Pack your bags, and I'll have my lawyer contact you!

 

Do not allow him to dictate to you the terms of your marriage. I truly believe that is better for a child to come from a broken home, than to live in one!

 

Stick up for YOU and your child. Give him an opportunity to see what being a divorced dad is like. You tell him how its going to be..and you tell him, these are my terms! You dont want to be here, then I dont want you here. Get your life back, take it back from him. Nobody is going to tell you what terms inwhich to live under..no bloody way! Stand up and be counted! Tell him you want the divorce too! Give him a month to find a place, and i can tell ya right now, as soon as you make a strong stand, he will be wondering if he is doing the right thing! But give the two of you time and distance from the relationship.

 

Remember..loving someone means having to let them go sometimes. And if it is truly meant to be, he will find his way back to you, emotionally healthier, and in the meantime, you get yourself to a place where you can determine if you ever want him back in your life. I sincerely doubt it, once you begin working on YOU.

[whichwayisup]

Honestly? Try the counselling for your son's sake. BOTH of you need to do this. And, go to counselling on your own to help you with the other stuff..

 

You feel nothing for you H now because of all the resentment built up, you still have feelings for the OM so ofcourse you aren't just going to muster up feelings of affection for your H because he wants sex. This is why you need to do counselling on your own. One minute you want out, the next minute you don't. I'm sure your H feels the same way but he is thinking of your son, so you need to as well.

 

Try the counselling for atleast 6 months.

[daisygirl]

I would say NO! I would let him get a taste of part time fatherhood, and being alone. I would give him distance to see if he misses his old life. I would allow time for YOU to get YOU back!

 

 

Thanks for the advice. Honestly, I wanted the D first, then decided to work on it, then he did the same to me. That's why I feel like I should give him another chance - because I did the same thing to him a few months ago. But in my heart, I don't feel it. Especially if neither of us feel like we'll be together forever, that can't be a good sign.

 

Honestly? Try the counselling for your son's sake. BOTH of you need to do this. And, go to counselling on your own to help you with the other stuff..

 

You feel nothing for you H now because of all the resentment built up, you still have feelings for the OM so ofcourse you aren't just going to muster up feelings of affection for your H because he wants sex. This is why you need to do counselling on your own. One minute you want out, the next minute you don't. I'm sure your H feels the same way but he is thinking of your son, so you need to as well.

 

Try the counselling for atleast 6 months.

 

I haven't felt anything for my H in a long time, but I took too long to say anything. It didn't start with the EA. It was WAY before that. I am in IC right now, but had to cancel my last appt. since my son was sick

 

It's hard for me, because H *sometimes* wants to show affection, and I don't feel it. Am I supposed to fake it even if it feels forced? To me, that's like sending false hope.

 

Right now, I'm feeling like I'll go crazy if I have to live with him for 6 more months.

Edited March 11, 2008 by daisygirl

[mysocalledlife]

I went back and read your other thread and saw that you have been married for 5 years. I also got the impression that the issues with your H began about 2 years ago, after the birth of your child, right?

 

If so, then I guess I have a couple of conflicting comments / suggestions.

 

On the one hand, if your H is indeed willing to try MC, why not give it a shot? You say you still have feelings for your H, and if the problems started soon after your child was born, I can't help but wonder if there is more than a passing connection there tat might be addressed in C. Besides, what do you have to lose other than some time? And if things don't work, the counseling may help establish a better basis for co-parenting in the future.

 

However, on the other hand, as someone who has remained in a barren M devoid of romantic feelings for far too many years, I would never, ever want anyone else to make that mistake.

 

So I guess my question to you would be - how certain are you that your romantic feelings for your H are truly dead? Answer that and I think you will know what to do. However, I think it may take you some time to really answer that question, as I get the feeling that your EA is still deeply affecting you.

[daisygirl]

I went back and read your other thread and saw that you have been married for 5 years. I also got the impression that the issues with your H began about 2 years ago, after the birth of your child, right?

 

If so, then I guess I have a couple of conflicting comments / suggestions.

 

On the one hand, if your H is indeed willing to try MC, why not give it a shot? You say you still have feelings for your H, and if the problems started soon after your child was born, I can't help but wonder if there is more than a passing connection there tat might be addressed in C. Besides, what do you have to lose other than some time? And if things don't work, the counseling may help establish a better basis for co-parenting in the future.

 

However, on the other hand, as someone who has remained in a barren M devoid of romantic feelings for far too many years, I would never, ever want anyone else to make that mistake.

 

So I guess my question to you would be - how certain are you that your romantic feelings for your H are truly dead? Answer that and I think you will know what to do. However, I think it may take you some time to really answer that question, as I get the feeling that your EA is still deeply affecting you.

 

Thanks for the post

 

Yes, things got WORSE after we had our son, but I had doubts before then. Small ones, but I still remember them. Before our son, i worked full time and went to school part time, so H and I hardly ever saw each other. When we did, it was just ok for me. I honestly never felt a "spark" or "connection". I think as time went on, we grew comfortable with each other, but we never really had a lot in common.

 

And again, yes, the EA did affect me. But I never fell in love with the OM and I had lost feelings for my H long before the EA. I remember wanting to leave many times, but was too scared. Between my H's criticizing and superior attitude, and me losing feelings for him, I should have pushed for MC much sooner (and yes, I know that I have issues I need to work on myself). I had asked for it from H, but I should have made a damn appt for us LONG ago!! However, I know that the EA was in mistake because it did affect my feelings in a way. I hope my IC will help me realize what I am REALLY feeling.

Edited March 11, 2008 by daisygirl

[whichwayisup]

You have nothing to lose then if you feel this way and if by chance you and your husband reconnect or connect at all during counselling, then that's a good thing for the sake of your son.

 

You both let the M fall apart by growing apart for various reasons...

 

Now, if you want to fix this thing, the blaming has to stop and each of you need to own up to your part in the downfall of your marriage.

 

As I said earlier, try for atleast 6 months and then see where you are then. If it doesn't work, atleast you know you tried. Not trying, well, one day you may regret that and wish you had. Same goes for your husband..

[daisygirl]

You have nothing to lose then if you feel this way and if by chance you and your husband reconnect or connect at all during counselling, then that's a good thing for the sake of your son.

 

You both let the M fall apart by growing apart for various reasons...

 

Now, if you want to fix this thing, the blaming has to stop and each of you need to own up to your part in the downfall of your marriage.

 

As I said earlier, try for atleast 6 months and then see where you are then. If it doesn't work, atleast you know you tried. Not trying, well, one day you may regret that and wish you had. Same goes for your husband..

 

You're very right....thanks for the advice. I would hate to look back and think that we hadn't tried.

[whichwayisup]

If you didn't have a son I'd tell you to divorce....But, for the sake of your son, you both owe it to him to atleast try to make it work.

 

I am glad that you do therapy on your own. It will help you just as much as MC will.

[daisygirl]

If you didn't have a son I'd tell you to divorce....But, for the sake of your son, you both owe it to him to atleast try to make it work.

 

I am glad that you do therapy on your own. It will help you just as much as MC will.

 

Thank you so much for the advice. If it wasn't for our son, I'd have probably left a long time ago.

 

I definitely need the IC, probably should have started that long ago, too.