Only in the eyes of the beholder

[R2litefan]

I am, so I am told by lots of guys, that I am a very pretty girl, which I find very flattering but being a modest person I really don't care for men telling me that all the time. I am particular about my appearance, I am petite and guys tease me about being tiny, "being just a little person" they say. I always have a smile on my face, life is too short to be grumpy, and I am a very easy going person, not too much gets me down and when it does only my closest friends see me that way. When I am out in public I am a very bubbly, happy-go-lucky person. My question is if so many guys think I'm pretty, and like my personality, then why do I keep being overlooked for women who are "manly" looking, heavier and never smile? Do I intimidate these guys or make them feel that they are not in the same league as me? I sure hope that isn't the case because I don't judge people, if they would only take the time to get to know me they would see that I am no better than anyone else. I just wonder sometimes if I would get a better response from men if I dressed a little more provocative when I went out and acted a little less happy, those are the girls that seem to end up with all the good looking men. I'm just baffled is all, maybe someone could help. I know all I can be is me, but it just seems that I scare men away because of my appearance. I like to look and dress nice when I am out, it's a pride thing I guess, but I get lots of stares but no takers. Just wonder why is all.

[moimeme]

"because I don't judge people"

 

"why do I keep being overlooked for women who are "manly" looking, heavier and never smile?"

 

 

[color=red]![/color]

[Bill]

Guys aren't after girls that are "manly" looking. That is quite scary!

 

The important thing here is to be yourself. If someone doesn't like you for who you are, then why would you like them? Find someone that likes you. In time it will all work out. Maybe there is someone out there looking for someone just like you.

 

Beauty is only in the eyes of the beer holder.

[magritte]

Originally posted by R2litefan

I just wonder sometimes if I would get a better response from men if I dressed a little more provocative when I went out and acted a little less happy, those are the girls that seem to end up with all the good looking men.

 

If you 'don't judge people' then how come you are only interested in the good looking guys?

[R2litefan]

What I meant by good looking has a wide range, some men are good looking on the outside, while others are good looking on the inside. I guess I should have said "all the good men".

[moimeme]

Now how, exactly, do you know they are the good men if you don't know them?

 

It might depend on what you mean by 'happy'. There are people who are cheerful and good-natured and then there are people who bounce off the walls. If by 'happy', you mean the latter, then that could be a problem.

[R2litefan]

I didn't say that I didn't know these men, I know them well enough to know that they are good people, with good personalities themselves. What I meant by "happy" was just a general outlook on life, not bouncing off the walls, just generally happy with life. Some of the men that I have been commenting are I know quite well, they like me as a person, I just don't have the physical traits that they are attracted to, like being built on the manly side or have firm strearn faces. I just didn't understand why men would overlook a femine person over a rough looking person, and what I mean by rough is someone who looks like they could kick the living daylights out of you if you made them mad.

[Ryan]

Alright....I like to consider myself a decent-looking guy and generally a pretty good person to know. Most of my male friends are the same...particularly my close ones. I shall share our thoughts.

 

We aren't into "manly." We aren't into scary. We aren't into beefy. We aren't into heavy. All of the talk of men preferring that is either specific to whoever you're asking.....or a cover-up for something else that just ain't quite right about you.

 

Now...I haven't seen you. I don't know what you look like, but let's assume you are as attractive as you report. You put a little shine on your appearance and you head out. I will be straight up - a hot woman will be intimidating. It has nothing to do with who you are or how you treat people. Even rational and generally confident guys will see a head-turner and think, "That girl can get someone better." This often refers to the superficial things that are commonly desired OF men: good TRENDY looks, money, and status. Certainly not all attractive women put great importance on those elements....but we are honestly jaded because so many of them DO. It is seriously hard to find pretty women that do not take advantage of how they look.

 

You also have to be wary of the guy who will march up to you without shame. Often times, that person believes they have nothing to lose because they don't really care any about WHO you are...just WHAT you are. The nicer fellow will be hesitant to approach you because he actually cares what you think...namely that you'd reject. Shoot us a sign....a genuine smile..maybe we'll come say hi..casually touch our arm or leg while talking....things like that we DO notice and they matter to us.

 

Forget the idea of showing more skin. That'll get you looked at more...and approached by the player type. We're not interested in the girl who tries too hard...because those are often the women trying to use those looks as a tool.

 

I don't know if that helps....ask more questions if you want to know something specific.

[jenny]

umm.. i have to tell you that the guys in my circles (and i have learned this the hard way) are often put off by catty, cliche and generally naive perspectives on gender.

[R2litefan]

Ryan, Thank you for your insight, and I understand what you are saying. I just accepted an invitation by a guy to attend the Hodag Country Festival (which is about 21/2 hours away from home). So we go to this festival this past weekend and just as I explained in my first thread happened. We were in the pavilion after all the professional entertainment was over and we were having a great time listening to the local band when these 3 girls come up in short shorts and bikini tops, well guess who got left just standing there? Yes, me. I didn't mind at first, after all we are not committed in anyway, but he started buying their drinks and after an hour went by I told him I was going to go back to the campground, he wasn't talking to me anyway. I just felt that you don't invite a girl to something and then spend the rest of the evening with other girls, he didn't know them before that night, I just thought he was being inconsiderate of my feelings. We had gone with another couple, Thank God, so I did have them to talk to, but I didn't want to be a third wheel around them, they wanted to go and dance and felt bad about just leaving me standing there alone. We were having a great time prior to these 3 girls coming into the picture, and I am so tired of this happening. This was only the 3rd time I was with this guy so it's not like it was serious yet, but if this kind of thing keeps happening to me I'll never find anyone to want to be serious with.

Have any suggestions? I didn't mind that he was having fun, but he shouldn't have taken a date if he wanted to have that kind of fun. He apologized the entire next day, he says he feels really bad about treating me like that, but if it happened once it will probably happen again right? I thought he was a really nice person. I guess I must have poor judgment in character.

[clia]

Oh. My. God. I can't believe he acted that way! What a total ass! Cut off all contact with that jerk, seriously. If he'd treat you like that during the time when he should be out to impress you, there is something seriously wrong.

 

I absolutely know how you feel. When I lived in L.A., I got into a fairly drunk conversation with a guy at a bar, (he was drunk, I wasn't!) and he told me I was "too classy looking to hit on." You know why? Because I wasn't showing a bunch of skin. I mean, I was dressed trendy and cool and all, but I wasn't wearing the most low cut shirt or shortest skirt I could find. (He could've been lying, but he was pretty trashed. I'm not sure his brain would function enough to formulate a lie.) What do you do with that information?

 

I don't know what to tell you except that you will eventually find a guy who appreciates you. And I don't know any guys who prefer manly looking girls to petite, feminine girls. Are you sure it's not something about your personality? (i.e. are you too aloof, not friendly, don't smile enough, etc.? are you intimidating? There are a lot of girls out there, that no matter what they look like can attract the guys because they vibe out the right aura. What are you projecting?)

[R2litefan]

Clia,

I am just a happy-go-lucky person, I smile all the time, and that's what usually attracts these men to me, they like my smile, my bubbly personality. I smile whenever I am around people, yesterday I missed work and today when I went to work I had some of the guys tell me that they missed my smile in the morning, that their day just wasn't as bright because they didn't see my smile. I work with over 200 men every day, I am a machinist, and there are guys that I see every day that come and talk to me just because we can have fun on our breaks and enjoy each others company. I just don't understand what is wrong with the guys on the outside of work. I guess they just don't want to take the time to get to know me as a person. Even when Dale came back to the campground Saturday night all he did was say that he was sorry and then tried to cause an arguement, but I was polite and told him that I would talk to him about it in the morning, because I wasn't going to discuss anything with him until then. He did finally go to sleep and the next day all he kept saying was he was sorry and that he didn't think he was going to be drinking any time soon, and then asked when he could see me again. I just told him to give me a call and we'll see then. I am an understanding person and I know that people do and say things that they normally wouldn't do or say when they have had too much alcohol in them, but that's no excuse to be inconsiderate of others feelings when you are out with them. I think I am a kind person and I always think of others before myself, I would rather hurt myself than know that I hurt someone else. I have even tried to change that but found that all I ended up doing was being in a big fight with myself and I didn't like myself that way at all so I went back to being me. I feel much better about myself and I know that I don't deserve to treated like that. Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it.

[Ryan]

It's been said.....his reaction was about him, not the girls in the minimal clothing. If I found you attractive and enjoyable to be around....I would have looked at those women....the end.

 

I think there's more about you than we are able to gather here. To say that men seriously avoid you means there's something else about you we don't know that is sending them away. I really don't think this is about looks....because women all over the attractiveness scale meet men.

[R2litefan]

Ryan, I didn't say that I don't meet men, I meet lots of men, but majority of those that I meet only want to be with me for one reason. Period. I will not allow myself to be a one night stand. I guess it's the ones that I am attracted to that I scare away. They don't avoid me, they just don't want to date me, at least not right now, so I am told. There are things about me that they desire, they just don't want that in their life right now. Now, if this guy didn't find me attractive or pleasant to be around, why would he invite me to a weekend festival out of town? As far as looking at the girls, hey that's fine, nothing wrong with feasting the eyes, but when he ends up spending more of his time with them and buying them drinks and not me, then I have a problem. He wants to see me again and if he didn't like me, why would he want to see me again? So what you are saying is that it's okay to be inconsiderate to the person you asked out, to leave them standing there for an hour or more while you go talk with the ladies in short shorts and bikini tops? I didn't have a problem with him talking with them and being friendly, that's what going to festivals like that are all about, meeting new people and talking and having fun, but he also wanted to bring the 3 girls back to our campsite to party with them some more and Thank God the couple that we were camping with told him no, because it wasn't a very nice thing to do to me. We had such a good time up until that point, and I gave him 3 strikes before deciding to go back to the campground. I believe in giving more than once chance because we are human and make mistakes. It wasn't just me, the people we were camping with were not very happy about his behavior, they also thought he was being inconsiderate. I know I am very picky when it comes to who I will go out with, I am not going to "settle" for someone that I am not attracted to, there has to be something that attracts me to that person, whether it be his smile, eyes, personality...who knows, but there has to be something I like before I will go out with someone. I don't know, maybe guys sense that...but it's the ones that I already am attracted to that make me feel that I'm not good enough. I am beginning to wonder if somewhere stamped on my forehead is the words "walk all over me" that only guys can read.

[Ryan]

Now, if this guy didn't find me attractive or pleasant to be around, why would he invite me to a weekend festival out of town?

 

Question.

 

I meet lots of men, but majority of those that I meet only want to be with me for one reason. Period.

 

Answer.

We're talking about a guy taking you camping....he wasn't there for your killer smores. There's just not many of us out there that see beyond the body.

 

So what you are saying is that it's okay to be inconsiderate to the person you asked out, to leave them standing there for an hour or more while you go talk with the ladies in short shorts and bikini tops?

 

Uhh....no...quite the opposite. Perhaps I was unclear. I do not think his behavior was appropriate and I would not have acted in such a fashion. "The end" meant "the end of my time with the two women in question."

 

I don't know, maybe guys sense that...but it's the ones that I already am attracted to that make me feel that I'm not good enough. I am beginning to wonder if somewhere stamped on my forehead is the words "walk all over me" that only guys can read.

 

A guy cannot walk all over you unless you let him. Why are you? Doesn't that pretty much eliminate a guy's value if he doesn't consider yours?

[R2litefan]

Ryan, I misunderstood your comment and I am glad you clarified it. That's what I wish would have happened, "The End", but it didn't. As far as my killer smores, now how do you know it wasn't them? Just kidding......na, it wasn't just camping, it was a music festival, all day concerts (Neil McCoy,Patty Loveless,Diamond Rio,Restless Heart,Darrell Worley,Travis Tritt & more), it was great! I just could have done without the 3 skimpy dressed girls is all. If he would have just feasted his eyes and that was the end of it, it would have been a perfect weekend! It just made me think whether I should date him again, he was a wonderful person to be with up until that point, but now my guard it up and don't know if I can totally enjoy myself with him again because I will be watching for him to do this again.

 

As far as being walked all over, you are correct, no one can unless you let them. I guess I have always let guys walk on me a little bit to save arguments but I have to stop doing that, it's not helping anything. I just hate arguing and would rather go along than argue about something that is petty.

 

I have been single for 3 years (married 16) and I forgot how hard it was to run into a trust worthy guy, each year I attempted to date, the first guy scared me to death, his good looks intimidated me and I didn't give him a chance, my fault, I screwed up with him, the second time I tried I was told that he liked me but he wasn't ready for someone like me in his life, and now he's living with a girl who jello wrestled, flashes her chest in public and looks mean enough to beat the crap out of you, she has a very stern looking face and she's very muscular, broad shoulders, big butt, just the opposite of me, and now this with the skimpy dressed girls, it just makes me wonder what is so wrong with me, maybe I do come off as being a "goodie two shoes" but I'm not, I take pride in my appearance is all but on the inside I am a very kind, caring person and I absolutely love to have fun.

 

I was just beginning to wonder if maybe I needed to change things about myself, dress a little more provocatively, not smile as much so I appeared to be stern and not to be having so much fun, but that just isn't me and I guess I am just going to have to be more patient but keep my eyes open and my guard up. Thanks for all of your comments, it really does help to see other people points of views.

[Ryan]

it wasn't just camping, it was a music festival, all day concerts (Neil McCoy,Patty Loveless,Diamond Rio,Restless Heart,Darrell Worley,Travis Tritt & more), it was great! I just could have done without the 3 skimpy dressed girls is all. If he would have just feasted his eyes and that was the end of it, it would have been a perfect weekend!

 

But it was camping....and that's my point. Don't make excuses for him, ya know?

 

It just made me think whether I should date him again, he was a wonderful person to be with up until that point, but now my guard it up and don't know if I can totally enjoy myself with him again because I will be watching for him to do this again.

 

Up to that point? Isn't this someone you've only seen a couple of times? I wouldn't even consider giving him another chance. Early on is when it should be one strike, you're out. It's not like he picked you up 20 minutes late.

 

I just hate arguing and would rather go along than argue about something that is petty.

 

Stop doing that. Speak your mind. You might want to go read the "Mystery" thread that is going on in the General Relationships Discussion area. A few of us have been hashing through what healthy, desirable men and women want

 

I have been single for 3 years (married 16)

 

What?? How old are you? Your words ring of mid-20s.

 

I was just beginning to wonder if maybe I needed to change things about myself, dress a little more provocatively, not smile as much so I appeared to be stern and not to be having so much fun

 

NO!

[clia]

I know I am very picky when it comes to who I will go out with, I am not going to "settle" for someone that I am not attracted to, there has to be something that attracts me to that person, whether it be his smile, eyes, personality...who knows, but there has to be something I like before I will go out with someone.

 

I'm curious, how do you know you like their personality before you go out with them? Sure, the looks part is easy on first glance, but maybe there are a lot of great guys out there who you aren't giving a chance. It sounds like you are very, very looks focused.

 

I ended up dating a guy for nearly a year who I wasn't attracted to for about the first four dates. (There was nothing wrong with him--just not my usual type.) Over those dates, I got to know him and realized that I adored his personality. He was one of the funniest guys I have ever met. And as I enjoyed his personality, I found him to be more and more attractive, until suddenly I was really, really attracted to him! Had I immediately turned down a date with him and not given him a shot because my initial thought was "mmm, not sure", I would've never realized how great he was, and would've missed out on a very nice relationship and lots of fun experiences.

 

I think maybe you need to broaden your horizons a bit. Having some major nonnegotiables (i.e. drug use, alcoholism, whatever) is fine, but I think it wrong to write people off immediately because they may not match your "looks" requirements. Chemistry can definitely grow with time if there other other fabulous qualities, and I don't think it's settling at all to be with someone who may not look like Brad Pitt but has great character and values. I'm not saying you need to go out with Quasimodo, but if there isn't anything particularly offputting about a guy's looks, you should give him a chance. I mean, what do you lose? Two or three hours of time for a date? Big deal. And well worth it to take the chance that you might meet a great guy.

 

I don't know, maybe guys sense that...but it's the ones that I already am attracted to that make me feel that I'm not good enough.

 

You let them make you feel that way.

 

I am beginning to wonder if somewhere stamped on my forehead is the words "walk all over me" that only guys can read.

 

It is there, and the only way to get rid of it is to stop letting guys walk all over you. You do that by not accepting their crumbs. I can't believe you are giving this guy another shot. Like Ryan said, it's not like he picked you up 20 minutes late. He ditched you for three other girls. That's beyond rude and inconsiderate. If you are willing to give such a guy a shot, it makes me wonder how much you truly value yourself. People pick up on it when you are willing to let them treat you like doormat girl. You obviously aren't happy being this way, so why do you allow it?

[magritte]

Originally posted by clia

It sounds like you are very, very looks focused.

 

I could tell this was the case from her first post.

 

Obviously these guys who you are attracted to know they are good looking and are going to put themselves ahead of you everytime. Did those women that he left you for seem to care that he was the sort of guy that would walk out on a date for the next pretty thing? Of course not! Good looking people know what they can get away with and are going to take advantage of it. They also believe that YOU are the lucky one to be with them and will probably expect you to take a lot of crap, since they know they can get away with it.

 

Aristotle said that in order to change your behavour, you had to change drastically to the point of absurdity, because your natural instincts would pull you back to your old tendencies and you would make very little progress otherwise. In the spirit of that I would begin at least CONSIDERING men you find physically unattractive. Try to see them for what kind of people they are, and don't let your sense of aesthetics cloud your judgement.

[Just A Girl2]

I don't mean to judge you, but just a feeling I'm left with after reading your posts.

 

Maybe it's just how you're coming across and not in any way how you really come across in person, but here, you come across as, well, thinking you are better than most women. You come across as thinking you are very good looking, a very great person and unable to figure out why men aren't interested in you but instead go for the "manly looking" women. Maybe your definition of 'manly looking' is yours alone? Maybe these women aren't the future Miss America but they have spunk and personality and are just themselves and aren't so caught up in their looks/only dating guys who are good looking.

 

Maybe without being aware of it, in real life you come across as snobby and thinking you're better than most.......and that turns some men off?

 

Just a thought

PS...I am very envious that you were able to go to that festival..wow, it sounds like it was great; I'd LOVE to see Diamond Rio. I was recently watching clips from Fan Fair in Nashville, talk about cool.

[R2litefan]

Well, first of all I personally do not think I am good looking, I just keep being told that...I'm okay I guess, I like to do the best I can with what I have but I am far from being a raving beauty that is for sure!!!!

 

I am in my 40's but obviously have led a very sheltered life, I was never physically attracted to my ex-husband of 16 years, I fell in love with his personality, he was my best friend all those years. No, I am not comparing other men to my ex- my ex isn't the same person that was my best friend, I would just like to be with someone who can and will care about me because I am me, I don't think that's too much to ask for. Outside appearance is not important, it is a bonus if the guy is good looking on the outside, and before I decide to go out with someone I spend some time with them talking to them, whether it be on the phone or in person at the park or out in a bar. If I enjoy their company and the conversation I will consider a date. I have not dated all the guys that I have talked to, some scare me too much, but I like them as individuals. One guy was so good looking (on the outside) that I was too intimidated to get to know him on the inside, my mistake, because after running into him a few times and talking I found that he is more wonderful on the inside than the outside, but he's already found the love of his life and I am very happy for him that he has found happiness. My loss! I think I need to take a reality check here again and just lay back and do some more observing instead of trying to participate. It just may do me some good to just lay back for a bit and find things to do alone for awhile. I can't keep dating guys that treat me or make me feel like I am a worthless piece of crap. I deserve better and I will wait for better and if better never comes along, well then I guess I will remain alone.

[R2litefan]

Just a Girl2, I do not think that I am better than anyone and if you ran into me out and about being a snob would be the last thing you would see about me and anyone who knows me would never say such a thing. I am a good person and I will never say different. As far as the "manly" looking women, if you saw who I was talking about you would have no choice but to think the same. They are "manly" built, broad shoulders, stern faces, very rough looking women, if they smiled their faces would crack. I am not the only one who thinks this of these women. The guy's brothers and best friends that I started this thread about says the same thing about this one peticular girl, he's with her not for the love of her but for the love of her money. If it wasn't for his brothers being really good friends of mine for 20 or more years I would never know that was why he was with her. I made me feel bad when they told me that because I thought he was a better person and it was very disappointing to find out that he's a gold digger. This girl has had a very rough life, which explains the rough appearace, but this guy had liked me at one point, told me I was so sweet and kept me hanging around until he met someone that makes more money and has a brand new home. Oh well, his loss. I know who this girl is and she's very loud, obnoxious and takes no pride in her appearance. It isn't just "my opinion", I know rough looking women when I see them. Hey, they may be the most wonderful people in the world but they still have a rough exterior. I hope you understand a little more now of what I was talking about. I appreciate your point of view, thanks. It all helps, believe me.