So I told the wife

[JamesM]

There are always two sides to any equation. Women need to feel loved and appreciated, just like men do. Were her needs met? If not, why not?

 

I agree with you.

 

And this is where I blame ScrivDog.

 

Having been in his shoes and may be again, I have had the same choice. Thankfully, I chose to research our problems and confront my wife. While it did not solve everything, it improved our communication 100% in that area.

 

My guess is that he never communicated his lack of sex with the idea of learning why she lost interest. If he cam with a "me" attitude, then he may never have listened to what he could do to change things.

 

It goes both ways, that is all I am saying.

[eeyore1980]

No, that is not what I am saying. However, one cannot argue that the circumstances made it easier to choose the wrong response.

 

By taking the opposite stance, we say that the BS can do anything within the bounds of marriage such as withholding sex, and the frustrated spouse must simply choose to accept it. If he decides to leave, then he must have loved sex more than her. If he chooses an affair, he must have not loved her. Yet one can nicely ignore the fact that she showed this same lack of love by withholding sex and not communicating why. The FS cannot change his or her ways if the wrongness of those ways is not explained.

 

While I think I have shown many times that I do not condone any affair, and I think a man or woman who chooses an affair is running from his or her issues rather than facing them, I can also say unequivocally that both people in a marriage are usually at fault when an affair occurs.

 

Oh, so is what you are saying is the CS can do anything within the bounds of marriage, including treating the BS like crap, and the BS still has to have sex with him/her on demand? And if she/he doesn't, then she/he has to take part of the responsibility if CS chooses to stray?

[eeyore1980]

I agree with you.

 

And this is where I blame ScrivDog.

 

Having been in his shoes and may be again, I have had the same choice. Thankfully, I chose to research our problems and confront my wife. While it did not solve everything, it improved our communication 100% in that area.

 

My guess is that he never communicated his lack of sex with the idea of learning why she lost interest. If he cam with a "me" attitude, then he may never have listened to what he could do to change things.

 

It goes both ways, that is all I am saying.

 

Seeing this, I will take back my last post.

[JamesM]

Seeing this, I will take back my last post.

 

Drat it...I was just getting ready with another long diatribe!

[eeyore1980]

Drat it...I was just getting ready with another long diatribe!

 

Go ahead, I wouldn't want to stand in the way of a long diatribe, just make it good!

[Ladyjane14]

No, I completely disagree with this James. Affairs cannot be blamed on both partners. It's like saying it's okay for the second child to punch someone on the playground who's been teasing or bullying him/her.

 

But if that child does punch the teasing child, can we say that this was totally his or her fault?

 

No, for if the teasing had never occurred, the punch would never have happened. BUT the point that this is the wrong response to the teasing...yes, that is correct.

 

Affairs are usually a response that is an incorrect one. However, if the marriage had been going great (in many cases not all), then the affair would not have been desirable.

 

Affairs result from a poor choice. But the choice is made easier or more difficult by our circumstances in life.

 

ScrivDog is like the child who punched the bully. It may have been the wrong response, but would anyone argue that the punch was not provoked?

 

How weird that you guys should use this example today. I was just talking with a friend earlier and we were discussing how inappropriate some kids are in school. It's like some of them have no home-training at all, like they're raised by wolves or something.

It's almost routine for these kids to say horrible things to one another, with usually no thought whatsoever to the consequences. Probably... because it's unlikely there'll be any.

 

Back when I was a kid, if somebody talked to you like that, they couldn't be all that surprised if you popped 'em once or twice in the nose. And yeah, you'd get a paddling both at school and at home, but even so... it's unlikely that same kid would get back up in your face again.

 

In adult terms though, it seems to me that people were ever so much more polite back in the old days... when we were all carrying guns.

[btc8]

I don't understand why everyone is exalting SD. So you were a man about it for once in your life and confessed to your wife out of what you claim is guilt. But we all know that 'real man' in this case is a misnomer: the aforementioned would have divorced his wife before he committed infidelity on her and the rest of the family. Doesn't anyone respect vows anymore? Here we are (we as in society) bickering and nit-picking about how the sanctity of marriage and its preservation should remain 'undiluted' by not recognizing same-sex marriages when those in marriages disrespect each other enough to break vows instead of getting a divorce.

 

You're so blase about the whole thing. How old are your children? I guarantee you that they will soon lose all credibility and respect for their father later in life (if they're young) when they find out why you and your wife got a divorce. I can say such a thing with conviction because my mother did commit adultery on my father. She remained married to him anyway, and I (the eldest) found out. I lost total and complete respect for my mother for not divorcing my father. I confronted her, garnered proof of her infidelities, and I have maintained not talking to her for months. My sister found out and so did my father, and it blew up in my mother's face. I cannot say that I do not love my mother, but it will be a LONG time before I consider forgiving her.

 

Make sure, SD, you are prepared to be ostracized for what you really are.

[Mustang Sally]

On the other hand, I am just as sure it is usually a lot more simple than those directly involved like to admit.

Point well taken, and I pretty much agree with you.

What I was referring to was the fact that I find Scriv to be rather reserved, if you will, in what he shares with us. In that way, I figure there is probably a whole lot more under the surface that we will probably never know. Just my impression, YMMV.

[Mustang Sally]

Were her needs met? If not, why not?

I have asked this question of the OP on multiple occasions in the past.

And never really received a real answer to it.

[Mustang Sally]

I don't understand why everyone is exalting SD.

I didn't think anyone was exalting him.

I think it is a bit like the story of the prodigal son, FWIW.

 

You (collectively) are just happy that it seems the erring person is starting to take some (baby) steps towards a more honest existence. And to me, that is always good to see, no matter how significant, frequent or grave the error committed.

[DogMetal]

I think it sounds like he is battling his own 'coolness' and stature against this horrible thing he has done to his wife, family and in-laws. Almost like he admits what he is doing is a bad thing, but he is not going to allow it to make him weak or feel any suffering.

I don't think he has really realized what he has done, and I am perplexed at the post about his in-laws reaction. But I am sure this has been discussed to death in his past posts.

He is so cool about it I would almost guess its a fabrication and he likes attention, but if not, I hope his family can survive.

[JustBreathe]

It is true when kids find out one of their parents has been unfaithful, it is a terrible blow to them. My eldest son came up to me at 17 years old, looked me in the eyes and asked me what was going on with his father and I. I could not lie to him. I told him just one sentence "Oh, your dad had a little girlfriend and I found out." It was awful. Silent tears welled up in his eyes. Just horrible. He said "Dad is so stupid. I don't want there to be any divorce or anything, okay?" I just said, "Okay. If you don't want it, it won't happen." He never spoke to me about it again and I never brought it up again.

 

He joined the military at 18 and served 4 years in the Marines. I think it was the stress at home. It has forever changed the relationship between his father and him, no matter how hard my H tries to make amends and become a "changed man." He won't ever see his father in the same light.

 

Think carefully about what you are doing. Don't be so flippant. It's so much bigger than you and some things once done can never be undone. Look deeply within yourself because you're too wrapped up in what you want and to hell with anyone else.

[Mr. Lucky]

Honestly, even being a man, how much sex would you want to have with a partner who is constantly disrespecting you, nagging you, etc.

I just love the way you put that. "Even being a man" with the accompanying lack of sexual restraint or ethics...

 

I don't condone Scriv's choices but I do understand them. The familial, social and financial costs of divorce remain unconscionably high for many men in his (potential) situation...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Trialbyfire]

I just love the way you put that. "Even being a man" with the accompanying lack of sexual restraint or ethics...

 

I don't condone Scriv's choices but I do understand them. The familial, social and financial costs of divorce remain unconscionably high for many men in his (potential) situation...

 

Mr. Lucky

If you recall the OPs opening post, he's looking forward to his inlaws responses and can afford the financial loss. As he's already embarked on an affair, I would think the social implications are moot to him, unless he isn't bright enough to have figured it out in the first place. Considering how long the OPs been on LS and how many threads he's probably read on the consequences of infidelity, nothing should come as a surprise or shock to him.

[Lovelybird]

ScrivDog

 

I just read this amazing book, the mentality in this book about marriage about relationship immediately put me into peace, I want to share this mentality here, and added some my imagination according to my understanding

 

When two people vow to marry each other and try to make each other happy in their whole life at the wedding, they really do believe so. But it is like two 5 year old children vow to take care of each other, and conquer the world. The couple expected TOO MUCH from each other and from the marriage.

 

I mean the couple are two fallible human being. after they married, they live together, their squirks and selfish sides come out from time to time: holding back affection, do something only for own benefit at the price of another's benefit, revengence because another ignored their needs, selfish in lovemaking....think of all these, if without help of God, a happy and healthy marriage seems impossible.

with OW, you won't have to show this side of yourself, because the relationship with OW is way too far, you don't have to be with her 24/7, both of you can show best side when you meet

 

if one person say the marriage failed because it is only their partner's fault, and self did no wrong, then clearly you can know this person contributed HUGE into their problems, because this person failed to see OWN fault due to his/her own pride , so he/she failed to improve their marriage

 

When we really look at ourselves, we will see many sinful natures, many impure motives to do things not for loving the partner, but for manipulating others to meet our needs, sometimes even do things out of hatred. If you can see own fault, then you can try to forgive others. and understand you are far from the position that sit high and say 'you made a mistake, I will punish you'. you understand that both made mistakes, both are same, both have sinful tendency

 

OW is the tool you use to revenge your wife and a tool you use to manipulate the situation, an easy way out but actually add more muddy into your situation. and another wrong motive for your marriage

 

Both partners made mistakes, and manipulation will not solve the problem, but add more trouble into it. Stop looking at yourself as infallible person, you will remove tremendous burden from yourself, and would be able to see the whole situation more clearly. Humbleness create true confidence

 

My purpose here isn't to put guilty on you, but hope you can see own contribution in your wife's less-interest-in-sex issue, and seek to forgive her and yourself. and turn your energy into seeking real solution to improve your life and marriage. you can do something without just following the flow. you have chance to turn the situation around from now.

 

Did you try to ask her why she is less interested in sex? are you willing to face the answer or run? if you don't know, why then you didn't give her a chance to speak her mind and improve?

 

Despite all the difficulty in marriage, there is a way out, if one start to do right thing, situation will improve accordingly. we cannot change another person, only can inspire another to change

 

If you are interested in the book, it is Sacred Marriage, by Gary Thomas

He talked about marriage very realistically, he dissect the difficulties in marriage, quite a eye opener

[Mr. Lucky]

If you recall the OPs opening post, he's looking forward to his inlaws responses and can afford the financial loss. As he's already embarked on an affair, I would think the social implications are moot to him, unless he isn't bright enough to have figured it out in the first place. Considering how long the OPs been on LS and how many threads he's probably read on the consequences of infidelity, nothing should come as a surprise or shock to him.

I agree he wouldn't be surprised. Let's face it, both men and women stand to lose a tremendous amount (and not just $$$) in these situations. I agree with James (as a man, probably no surprise) that Scriv's story is probably more clearly understood within the context of his marriage...

 

Mr. Lucky

[twice_shy]

SG I'm not sure unrepentant equates with arrogant. There was no gloating, no rubbing of her face in it, no blame

 

Maybe not in so many words in this thread, but have you read any of his other posts? It cries utter disrespect and loathing for his wife.

[JamesM]

Maybe not in so many words in this thread, but have you read any of his other posts? It cries utter disrespect and loathing for his wife.

 

Could you pull out some examples that show this "utter disrespect and loathing?"

[eeyore1980]

I just love the way you put that. "Even being a man" with the accompanying lack of sexual restraint or ethics...

 

I don't condone Scriv's choices but I do understand them. The familial, social and financial costs of divorce remain unconscionably high for many men in his (potential) situation...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I am sorry I didn't word that better. I don't think all, or even most, men lack sexual restraint or ethics.

What I meant was a man is more likely to want sex from his wife after being insulted all day than a woman would be were the situation reversed. If it were to continue on and on, I think 'even a man' would begin to lose interest, but I do believe it is going to happen to a woman first.

[twice_shy]

Just a thought... but it could be the kids. Sometimes women have trouble balancing their emotional energy between mate and offspring. We fall "in love" with our babies, you know.

 

I agree. I've seen too many women all of a sudden lose the wife title and kick into mother mode. And mother mode doesn't usually make a good wife. Now is that a bad thing, not really. Can a mother still have the hots in the bedroom for her husband, absolutely! But things change when you are married and have kids.

 

In a traditional family, espcecially where the wife stays home with the kids, she has to deal with all the day to day family drama, while the husband goes off and has adult interaction all day, comes home, and still has his libido. I believe women just lose that because of their role in the family.

 

So rather than going out and selfishly sticking his willy in other women, why can't something be NOT about him once in a while.

 

I'm sorry if he thinks that not getting sex every other day is an infringement on his entitlement as a husband, and I realize he probably rarely gets it, but he probably could have sex with his wife more often if he wasn't a self-absorbed, "pleasure me now" kind of guy.

[eeyore1980]

I agree with James (as a man, probably no surprise) that Scriv's story is probably more clearly understood within the context of his marriage...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Again, I want to apologize for my choice of words. I am not a man basher. I love men, men are great. I wouldn't want to live my life without them. I don't think cheating is exclusively a "man thing". I don't think lack of morals is exclusively a "man thing".

Sorry!

[JamesM]

 

I'm sorry if he thinks that not getting sex every other day is an infringement on his entitlement as a husband, and I realize he probably rarely gets it, but he probably could have sex with his wife more often if he wasn't a self-absorbed, "pleasure me now" kind of guy.

 

These are some blanket assumptions that may not even be close to reality. Coming from a marriage that was virtually sexless for a number of years, I can say that MY WIFE would say that I was not self-absorbed nor was I lacking in the romance (ie gifts and attention) department. Her problems had nothing to do with me. However, if I had followed your advice, my frustrations would have led me to an affair. Why? Because after trying everything to not be a self-absorbed husband, I would have given up.

 

What was behind a lot of it? Health issues that were not detectable or easily noticed.

 

So, rather than read ScrivDog's marriage for him, let's take him at his word.

 

Once again, it is easy to throw all of the blame on the cheater when reality shows that both are responsible.

[angie2443]

I agree. I've seen too many women all of a sudden lose the wife title and kick into mother mode. And mother mode doesn't usually make a good wife. Now is that a bad thing, not really. Can a mother still have the hots in the bedroom for her husband, absolutely! But things change when you are married and have kids.

 

In a traditional family, espcecially where the wife stays home with the kids, she has to deal with all the day to day family drama, while the husband goes off and has adult interaction all day, comes home, and still has his libido. I believe women just lose that because of their role in the family."

 

 

You know how a husband can help his wife out in this situation (and by doing so, free his wife up more to get off the mommy-track more often)? He can help more with the housework and kids!

[eeyore1980]

I agree he wouldn't be surprised. Let's face it, both men and women stand to lose a tremendous amount (and not just $$$) in these situations. I agree with James (as a man, probably no surprise) that Scriv's story is probably more clearly understood within the context of his marriage...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Could you pull out some examples that show this "utter disrespect and loathing?"

 

Click on Scriv's name. Click on the option, "Show other posts by this user". Read away.

[twice_shy]

Could you pull out some examples that show this "utter disrespect and loathing?"

 

Well I'm not going to sift through every single post to prove anything, if you want to look through them all, and even this isn't the complete list, here you go --> http://www.loveshack.org/forums/search.php?searchid=3324890&pp=25&page=13

 

The ones I came across he talks more about women in general shutting off sex because he has stated before that women see a marriage license as a right to withhold sex.

 

Here is just one of the posts I found interesting. It shows his attitudes towards women in general, and if he thinks this way about women in general, he DEFINITELY thinks this way about his wife.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=948204#post948204

 

Has he ever wondered why the marriage is sexless? Could it be because her hormones have changed after having kids? Could it be her problem that she is stuck in a rut with the daily family routine?

 

In any case, he needs to be having loving, understanding conversasions about these things rather than going out and f####g whatever women he can stick his vienna sausage in to.

 

So my question to scriv is, why the hell don't you just get divorced already and quit bitching, whining, and moaning about how women become after they have been married???

 

If you hate marriage so much and think that every woman who gets married cuts off sex once the vows are spoken, then just get a divorce!!!

 

Get a divorce and you can stick your little sprout in whoever you want then without the worry of having to come here and constantly bitch about women in general. Use them like the disposable play things as you see them after you are no longer married.