So I told the wife

[american-woman]

I believe those are called pull-ups. "I'm a big boy now."

 

 

 

Depends?

[Mz. Pixie]

Oh, you think so? I think you would be VERY surprised at the way I was treated by my husband, even when I was meeting his sexual needs and enjoying every minute of it...

 

I personally know- because my husband treats me very well. But it's a win win for me- meet my husbands needs and get to have an orgasm?? Easy choice.

 

I'm sorry to hear that that didn't work for you though E- perhaps you just picked wrong originally or he wasn't the man that you thought he was??

 

Someone being an ass and mistreating their wife is not the situation I'm talking about. We have guys on here who help domestically around the house, work their asses off to provide the latest and greatest for their wives, take them on fabulous vacations, send them flowers, all that jazz. They really want so little in return- for their wives to desire them sexually.

I don't think it's too much to ask for myself.

[Mz. Pixie]

I'm sure that was what SD was doing while he was screwing his OW.

 

 

He didn't screw her over the course of his entire marriage.

[Dominique]

iAlso what is with this garbage a man always needing his ego stroked? He needs to feel admired. Grow up! Thats whats wrong with half the men in this world is they have no self worth. Ya aint gonna find it jumping someones bones Get out there and do something constructive that makes you feel worthwhile and proud of yourself.

 

Ask yourself this question IF your wife doesnt want to have sex with you WHY?

Is its because your good at it?(cough) Are you polite, loving, tender, keeping yourself clean? I could go on and on but you guys get my jest and so do the women.

 

Seems as though Scriv, like many of the hardworking, seemingly successful men on this Board, are out there being constructive and doing a lot that is worthwhile...So, they'd like a little recognition of that from their wives or the woman in each of their lives....

 

...Why is that asking too much?

 

What is so wrong then with wanting the attention and the admiration of the female a man adores? What is this sexual zombie world where we are supposed to run these autarkic lives, successful by and for ourselves, without hoping to find happiness with and the admiration of someone else? Isn't this the joy of nature, in fact, the male and the female respecting and loving one another, and that goes also for showing pride in the achievements of one and another?

 

And...its funny. Many of the women who are cynical about "men" always needing their "egos stroked" are the same ones who huff and puff, and pout and whine when the man in question isn't showering them with material things, romantic attention, paid bills...or what have you.

 

There is just way too much contempt that has build up between the sexes and I just don't know why. I can live my life as a professor, influencing minds, working with great works and scholars, but boy, there is nothing more pleasing as a woman to make the man I love feel fantastic.

 

I think others here not only need also to "grow up", but to calm down as well...

Edited March 14, 2008 by Dominique

[Owl]

I've seen the answers to my questions alluded to, but no direct information. It was aimed at Scriv (as the best possible source), but I'm curious about this:

 

Scriv, I'm curious...what actions did you take (prior to cheating) to communicate the seriousness of the lack of physical intimacy to your wife?

 

Did you just tell her? Did you tell her that you were horribly unhappy without it? Did you tell her that it was serious enough that you'd consider getting that need filled outside of the marriage? Did you tell her that you felt this was a potentially marriage-ending issue from your perspective?

 

How strongly did you communicate the possible outcome of not meeting that need to her?

 

Do you feel that you did 'everything you could' to get that point across to her BEFORE you slept with someone else?

[twice_shy]

This thread is about Scriv though, and where he's going from here. It's not about busting a cheater in the teeth, or keeping him from making a cheating decision. That ship has already sailed. .

 

You are right, but he doesn't want to hear what he should do. Many of us have told him to divorce. But he isn't going to have none of that because its clear he is worried about what he will lose.

 

And it is clear that he expects his wife to make all the changes with no effort on his end. His posts scream of entitlement of what a good wife should do for the husband and not once have I ever heard what he thinks he could do for her. its all about him.

 

So yes, this is about Scriv and many of us have told him, he and his wife would be better off if he just take the initiative and file for divorce.

[twice_shy]

 

 

 

As I said earlier, Bravo to you!!!! I think it's great that you didn't cheat! But every situation is different, just like the people are.

 

Forgive me- because I don't know- did you wife cheat on you??

 

Yup, and after trying to stay for the wrong reasons, the kids, I divorced her. She is now someone elses problem.

[twice_shy]

Let's not forget that a person who was cheated on is going to have bitter feelings whether or not they chose to stay married.

 

That was entirely my point.

 

 

Getting divorced does not equal healing

 

 

Thats funny, cuz it sure did for me.

 

 

although for some it may be the beginning of healing. For others, reconciling with their partner may be the beginning of healing. It depends on the individual and what they feel will make them happy. From the tone of your posts and from your past words, it seems like you are still pretty upset that your wife had an affair

 

 

I could care less about her anymore. Like I have said, she is someone elses problem now. It still doesn't mean that I can't get a little disgusted with someone who would hurt someone in the worst way possible and have a sense of entitlement to do so.

 

 

even though your choice was to divorce. You seem to ridicule or berate others who choose to stay married after infidelity

 

I have NEVER berated of ridiculed ANYONE who decided to stay married after infidelity. Please show me where I did.

 

I DO tell people that there is no good reason to stay with a cheater. And if you would have read what I have said to people like that in the past, I almost always tell them that I understand their thought process in feeling the need to stay for whatever their reason. I have been there myself.

 

 

and you sound really bitter at those who have cheated or those who have stayed with cheaters.

 

Sure I despise those who have cheated. But NEVER those who stay with cheaters. Please don't lie.

[twice_shy]

It is not always a conscious thought and action. You don't just wake up one day and say,"Hey! I think I'll just cheat on my spouse today." At least, most normal people don't.

 

So basically you think there are unseen forces that lead people to cheat? If it is not a conscious thought and action, then it must be unconscious right?

 

So basically you are saying they have no control over their actions. Someone put a Vulcan Mind Meld on them eh?

[blind_otter]

So marry one of those women, then f around on them as punishment. That'll help.

 

haha, dominique is a woman. Same sex marriages are not legal in the states.

[twice_shy]

Is trying to cheat the same as cheating?

 

Yes................

[twice_shy]

I believe those are called pull-ups. "I'm a big boy now."

 

"I'm a big kid look what I can do. I can wear big kid pants too!"

 

"and I can pull them off and on!!"

 

Well Scriv definitely has the last line down.

[eeyore1980]

Since this thread is man cheats on wife because he wasn't getting the sex he felt he deserved, I am going to use these gender assignments.

 

Several people have said how important sexual intimacy is. It helps keep the marriage strong. It benefits not just the man, but the woman as well. I agree with all these points. So doesn't it make at least a little bit of logical sense a wife would probably have some compelling reason to lose interest?

 

If a woman is feeling a sense of connection to her husband, gets strong and powerful feelings of love, is getting satisfied and feelings of contentment, all from the act of sex with her husband, why would she ever just not want to anymore?

 

I can't see a woman saying to herself, "Gee, I have all these great feelings when we are intimate, guess I'll stop doing that now." Where's the payoff for her?

 

Sorry, but unless there is some biological issue behind a woman losing her sex drive, or she is cheating, or she is maybe mentally unstable, I just don't see what purpose would be served by willfully not having sex with a man who is thoughtful and caring, and at least putting as much into her needs as he expects her to put into his.

 

So to all of you who are using this as some kind of justification to blame the wife for the husband cheating, why don't you explain that to me, because I am apparently clueless.

[mrmaximum]

Since this thread is man cheats on wife because he wasn't getting the sex he felt he deserved, I am going to use these gender assignments.

 

Several people have said how important sexual intimacy is. It helps keep the marriage strong. It benefits not just the man, but the woman as well. I agree with all these points. So doesn't it make at least a little bit of logical sense a wife would probably have some compelling reason to lose interest?

 

If a woman is feeling a sense of connection to her husband, gets strong and powerful feelings of love, is getting satisfied and feelings of contentment, all from the act of sex with her husband, why would she ever just not want to anymore?

 

I can't see a woman saying to herself, "Gee, I have all these great feelings when we are intimate, guess I'll stop doing that now." Where's the payoff for her?

 

Sorry, but unless there is some biological issue behind a woman losing her sex drive, or she is cheating, or she is maybe mentally unstable, I just don't see what purpose would be served by willfully not having sex with a man who is thoughtful and caring, and at least putting as much into her needs as he expects her to put into his.

 

So to all of you who are using this as some kind of justification to blame the wife for the husband cheating, why don't you explain that to me, because I am apparently clueless.

 

Not condoning cheating in the slightest with this post, however, what you have said can also be related to emotional attachment with your wife from a man's point of view. Yet how many posts do you read about women whose spouses aren't filling those needs?? Heck, I've read posts where these guys are good providers and great fathers but do nothing with these women once they get home. Does that mean that there is something biologically wrong with those men?? Your post could go both ways and the truth is we know that this isn't the case in ALL of them. The sad and simple truth is that people just don't get it sometimes, some men think that if they work hard that is good enough for their wives and some women think that if they clean the house and raise the kids and do the chores, that is good enough for their husbands.

Once again, not condoning cheating in the slightest, but there are quite a few people out there that don't understand the needs of their spouses, despite whatever best intentions these same spouses are demonstrating.

[nadiaj2727]

It have NEVER berated of ridiculed ANYONE who decided to stay married after infidelity. Please show me where I did.

 

It doesn't sound to me from your posts like divorce has equaled heaing for you. You don't sound healed, you sound like you're still hurting a lot. I hope you can heal soon I am just trying to say that just because you feel divorce equaled healing "in your case" does not mean it automatically equals healing for everyone who was betrayed.

 

It sounds to me like because of your own hurt, you are trying to hurt others. You spout bitter remarks to everyone who's on either side of infidelity in a marriage and you encourage people to get divorced after infidelity.That is not what someone who is trying to heal, recover and work on their marriage needs to heal. Just because that's what you did doesn't mean it's what works best for everyone, and I think it's rude of you to be mean or discouraging to people who don't feel that divorce is necessarily the best solution after infidelity.

 

You asked for some examples so here are some I've found just by a quick once-over of your past posts. The italicized portions are your own words from previous posts.

 

(You just told me you never berate anyone who has chosen to stay with their spouse after infidelity. However, in this post, you call someone a "twitterpatted fool" for loving someone who betrayed him):

Thats because he is a twitterpated fool. How anyone can love someone so much that would bed down with someone else is beyond me.

 

if she doesn't have a backbone and plays the submissive role and lets him walk all over her

(Again, here you berate someone who chooses to stay with someone who has cheated on her).

 

And here you discourage people from staying married and say they should get divorced after infidelity:

 

Arch, save your breath, or fingers I should say. She doesn't want to hear that. She only wants to hear how great it can be again.

 

Even if there are supposed "success stories" out there, that doesn't mean everything is all well and good.

 

Have you considered divorce? In my view, there is no good reason to stay...

 

So what is your point in being here? To tell everyone who has experienced infidelity to get divorced? It sure sounds like it. Obviously some people do not want that option for themselves, so why spout such discouragement and name calling? Why not try to be positive and see that some marriage do work after infidelity even if yours didn't?

 

Never mind, I'm sure I'm wasting my breath. I was just trying to explain why I find your posts offensive and not helpful. It doesn't really matter though, because I know a lot of people who have happy marriages after infidelity so I completely disagree with your opinion and what bothers me is that you fail to recognize it's just an opinion, it's just what you did, not what everyone should do. Most marriage therapists around the country would disagree with you and I do, too.

[JamesM]

For gods sake grow up! Also what is with this garbage a man always needing his ego stroked? He needs to feel admired. Grow up! Thats whats wrong with half the men in this world is they have no self worth. Ya aint gonna find it jumping someones bones Get out there and do something constructive that makes you feel worthwhile and proud of yourself.

 

Ask yourself this question IF your wife doesnt want to have sex with you WHY?

Is its because your good at it?(cough) Are you polite, loving, tender, keeping yourself clean? I could go on and on but you guys get my jest and so do the women.

 

Quite the attitude.

 

Let me make a comparison.

 

My wife loves the fact that I am her best friend and confidant. It is very important that we maintain the emotional connection. For me...this is work in a good sense. She likes to have lunch with me and share her morning. She likes to have coffee with me when she can. This is her way of connecting, and it is a way that I can show her my admiration. She likes me to be a listener and critic. And she thinks I am a great one...her words.

 

Without this, she feels that I do not care for her. She feels that I do not love her. When I do not want to spend that time with her, she feels that maybe I am interested in someone or something else more than her. While it is not true at all, I can find myself tired or too busy to have lunch or coffee. And at night, when I want to watch the March Madness finals, she wants some time together after the kids are in bed.

 

This is important to her.

 

And that is how sex is to me. I have learned to enjoy those times together with her. I have learned to look forward to them. I have learned to adjust my schedule as often as possible so that she has the priority. And hardest of all, I have tried to put my attention on her instead of the latest game.

 

This is marriage.

 

And so when sex is something that is important to me, then how can I not expect the same respect and consideration? When making time for sex just one time a week is the way that I feel connected and respected and admired by her...why is this suddenly not important? Why would this be a need for me to "grow up?"

 

When I have committed to being there for her emotionally and not sharing my time with other women (because I really know that I could have many more EAs than I could ever have PAs. Women have always my listener skills and critic skills. And I say that humbly. But seriously, I know it is true), then why when I have also committed to be hers only physically does this suddenly end one day?

 

The marriage vows go both ways. AW, you have been married for over 30 years, and I assume happily, you are well aware of the sacrifices it takes. So, when a man sacrifices his desire for sex so that he "gets it" only from his wife, he does this out of complete love. But when he sees that she no longer views his desire in this area as important and can compare it to a hunger for food or a "want" that is not necessary. And when the woman who is dearest to his heart decides that he just needs to forget about it and be a big boy, then this turns into frustration and inward anger. He is put into a corner. Interestingly enough, this occurs many times after there are children. This makes divorce very difficult. When I look at my children, I do not want them to lose their family over my need for love and affection through sex. Instead, I suck it up and try to determine why she no longer wants sex?

 

Is it me? Is it her? Or is there someone else who is more important?

 

What can I do?

 

You ask the question that has been on my mind for many years. Even as I see some improvement in my sex life, I still ask what happened in the past? What one magic button could I push? Or am I just no longer physically attractive to her? Would another man do better? Is she better off without me even though she says no?

 

What have I done wrong?

 

And then I get angry. Why can she not tell me what I need to do? Funny thing is...I would move mountains to do what she asks. I would learn how to be better in bed, be a better listener, spend more time with her, and take care of the kids more. BUT...she says I do splendid in all of those areas. It is her she says, not me.

 

This is very frustrating, because I do not see change or an attempt to change the lack of desire.

 

Then I say if it is her, then I can no longer do anything. If it was me, then at least I could do something. But I am helpless and destined to a sexless marriage, unless she decides to change. This is unfair.

 

So, since divorce is not an option due to the breakup of an otherwise happy home. And since it goes against my religious beliefs, I am stuck.

 

Some men when they reach this point will say that a divorce would be public and religious beliefs are minimal when compared to a sexless life. This leaves the affair as an attractive option IF the right person comes along.

 

Funny thin is...OWs sense this need and lack of respect and admiration. They provide that missing ingredient. They make this man feel like the man he felt he always has been. He now thinks that his wife truly did not love him. It was not her, or she would try to change if she loved him. It was not him, or she would ask him to change if she loved him. And this OW simply accepts him as he is...no change necessary. So begins the affair.

 

It is not a matter of growing, my dear, it is a matter of fulfilling the commitment made to one another at the marriage ceremony. The man has finally realized that all along, his wife has not been fulfilling her end of the bargain. Now it is his turn to let out all of that anger and be who he really was meant to be. Now he decides out of anger, since she no longer loves me, then I will begin moving on.

 

But why not divorce first? Because he DOES love his wife. It is a false illusion that he does not love her. His subconscious is crying for help. He has exhausted all means for change in his marriage. He hopes that this last attempt at change will cause her to wake up and see that his desires are or should be important to her. He hopes that the affair (in his own twisted way) will lead to a happier marriage.

 

Will it?

 

So many affairs are begun with a passive anger. And then the man is caught up in the passion, and he thinks he loves the OW.

 

But in the end, all is lost, and he is more unhappier than before.

 

All could have been prevented if open communication was given and recived by both partners when the problems first began

 

AW, is it more clear now?

[american-woman]

I totally understand what you are saying here. The way Scriv told his wife was horrible and mean. And by that Im sure he never even asked what the problem was with her. He acts like a child that cant have his way so hes gonna get back at mommy.

 

Yes I have been married many years and have been through many things of which I should have divorced but did`nt. I stuck by my vows. I too could have maybe should have taken up offers from many men because I was denied sex, tenderness,compassion ect, but I did`nt. Where would have that gottin me?

I think alot of married people forget their vows, no marriage is`nt easy and sometimes it does`nt work out but my god give it all you have till you cant anymore.

This man sounds like he has alot of growing up to do and maybe just maybe that is the turnoff for her. We dont know because she isnt here posting in her defense.

 

All I know is cheating isnt the answer it just adds another straw to the camels back

[american-woman]

 

Seems as though Scriv, like many of the hardworking, seemingly successful men on this Board, are out there being constructive and doing a lot that is worthwhile...So, they'd like a little recognition of that from their wives or the woman in each of their lives....

 

...Why is that asking too much?

 

What is so wrong then with wanting the attention and the admiration of the female a man adores? What is this sexual zombie world where we are supposed to run these autarkic lives, successful by and for ourselves, without hoping to find happiness with and the admiration of someone else? Isn't this the joy of nature, in fact, the male and the female respecting and loving one another, and that goes also for showing pride in the achievements of one and another?

 

And...its funny. Many of the women who are cynical about "men" always needing their "egos stroked" are the same ones who huff and puff, and pout and whine when the man in question isn't showering them with material things, romantic attention, paid bills...or what have you.

 

There is just way too much contempt that has build up between the sexes and I just don't know why. I can live my life as a professor, influencing minds, working with great works and scholars, but boy, there is nothing more pleasing as a woman to make the man I love feel fantastic.

 

I think others here not only need also to "grow up", but to calm down as well...[/quote

 

 

 

Not a Material girl.......................

[eeyore1980]

Not condoning cheating in the slightest with this post, however, what you have said can also be related to emotional attachment with your wife from a man's point of view. Yet how many posts do you read about women whose spouses aren't filling those needs?? Heck, I've read posts where these guys are good providers and great fathers but do nothing with these women once they get home. Does that mean that there is something biologically wrong with those men?? Your post could go both ways and the truth is we know that this isn't the case in ALL of them. The sad and simple truth is that people just don't get it sometimes, some men think that if they work hard that is good enough for their wives and some women think that if they clean the house and raise the kids and do the chores, that is good enough for their husbands.

Once again, not condoning cheating in the slightest, but there are quite a few people out there that don't understand the needs of their spouses, despite whatever best intentions these same spouses are demonstrating.

 

Excuse me, there are biological factors, scientifically documented, that can affect a woman's libido. And I guess if a man is a sociopath, that would be a biological factor, as well.

 

You sidestepped the question, you didn't answer it. Are you a politician?

[Mz. Pixie]

Since this thread is man cheats on wife because he wasn't getting the sex he felt he deserved, I am going to use these gender assignments.

 

Several people have said how important sexual intimacy is. It helps keep the marriage strong. It benefits not just the man, but the woman as well. I agree with all these points. So doesn't it make at least a little bit of logical sense a wife would probably have some compelling reason to lose interest?

 

If a woman is feeling a sense of connection to her husband, gets strong and powerful feelings of love, is getting satisfied and feelings of contentment, all from the act of sex with her husband, why would she ever just not want to anymore?

 

I can't see a woman saying to herself, "Gee, I have all these great feelings when we are intimate, guess I'll stop doing that now." Where's the payoff for her?

 

Sorry, but unless there is some biological issue behind a woman losing her sex drive, or she is cheating, or she is maybe mentally unstable, I just don't see what purpose would be served by willfully not having sex with a man who is thoughtful and caring, and at least putting as much into her needs as he expects her to put into his.

 

So to all of you who are using this as some kind of justification to blame the wife for the husband cheating, why don't you explain that to me, because I am apparently clueless.

 

Because many women use sex to manipulate their husbands. And many of them think that they can make the decision about sex and when it should be had and when it shouldn't and that the husband just has to basically like it or lump it. How many times have you heard a girlfriend say "Well, he has pissed me off so I'll just cut him off". It's the ultimate trump card!

 

Many women do stop having sex with their husbands out of resentment and frustration. I certainly had no sex drive in my first marriage because I was not emotionally connected to him. I still did have sex with him on a regular basis but I really wasn't enjoying it much- which is why I understand what you're saying.

 

I'm not saying that the man shouldn't meet the woman's emotional needs. I'm a very strong advocate of that because I did go outside my marriage to get my needs met. But it works both ways- which is again why I advocate

the concept of the love bank and both partners having their needs met by each other.

[eeyore1980]

Quite the attitude.

 

Let me make a comparison.

 

My wife loves the fact that I am her best friend and confidant. It is very important that we maintain the emotional connection. For me...this is work in a good sense. She likes to have lunch with me and share her morning. She likes to have coffee with me when she can. This is her way of connecting, and it is a way that I can show her my admiration. She likes me to be a listener and critic. And she thinks I am a great one...her words.

 

Without this, she feels that I do not care for her. She feels that I do not love her. When I do not want to spend that time with her, she feels that maybe I am interested in someone or something else more than her. While it is not true at all, I can find myself tired or too busy to have lunch or coffee. And at night, when I want to watch the March Madness finals, she wants some time together after the kids are in bed.

 

This is important to her.

 

And that is how sex is to me. I have learned to enjoy those times together with her. I have learned to look forward to them. I have learned to adjust my schedule as often as possible so that she has the priority. And hardest of all, I have tried to put my attention on her instead of the latest game.

 

This is marriage.

 

And so when sex is something that is important to me, then how can I not expect the same respect and consideration? When making time for sex just one time a week is the way that I feel connected and respected and admired by her...why is this suddenly not important? Why would this be a need for me to "grow up?"

 

When I have committed to being there for her emotionally and not sharing my time with other women (because I really know that I could have many more EAs than I could ever have PAs. Women have always my listener skills and critic skills. And I say that humbly. But seriously, I know it is true), then why when I have also committed to be hers only physically does this suddenly end one day?

 

The marriage vows go both ways. AW, you have been married for over 30 years, and I assume happily, you are well aware of the sacrifices it takes. So, when a man sacrifices his desire for sex so that he "gets it" only from his wife, he does this out of complete love. But when he sees that she no longer views his desire in this area as important and can compare it to a hunger for food or a "want" that is not necessary. And when the woman who is dearest to his heart decides that he just needs to forget about it and be a big boy, then this turns into frustration and inward anger. He is put into a corner. Interestingly enough, this occurs many times after there are children. This makes divorce very difficult. When I look at my children, I do not want them to lose their family over my need for love and affection through sex. Instead, I suck it up and try to determine why she no longer wants sex?

 

Is it me? Is it her? Or is there someone else who is more important?

 

What can I do?

 

You ask the question that has been on my mind for many years. Even as I see some improvement in my sex life, I still ask what happened in the past? What one magic button could I push? Or am I just no longer physically attractive to her? Would another man do better? Is she better off without me even though she says no?

 

What have I done wrong?

 

And then I get angry. Why can she not tell me what I need to do? Funny thing is...I would move mountains to do what she asks. I would learn how to be better in bed, be a better listener, spend more time with her, and take care of the kids more. BUT...she says I do splendid in all of those areas. It is her she says, not me.

 

This is very frustrating, because I do not see change or an attempt to change the lack of desire.

 

Then I say if it is her, then I can no longer do anything. If it was me, then at least I could do something. But I am helpless and destined to a sexless marriage, unless she decides to change. This is unfair.

 

So, since divorce is not an option due to the breakup of an otherwise happy home. And since it goes against my religious beliefs, I am stuck.

 

Some men when they reach this point will say that a divorce would be public and religious beliefs are minimal when compared to a sexless life. This leaves the affair as an attractive option IF the right person comes along.

 

Funny thin is...OWs sense this need and lack of respect and admiration. They provide that missing ingredient. They make this man feel like the man he felt he always has been. He now thinks that his wife truly did not love him. It was not her, or she would try to change if she loved him. It was not him, or she would ask him to change if she loved him. And this OW simply accepts him as he is...no change necessary. So begins the affair.

 

It is not a matter of growing, my dear, it is a matter of fulfilling the commitment made to one another at the marriage ceremony. The man has finally realized that all along, his wife has not been fulfilling her end of the bargain. Now it is his turn to let out all of that anger and be who he really was meant to be. Now he decides out of anger, since she no longer loves me, then I will begin moving on.

 

But why not divorce first? Because he DOES love his wife. It is a false illusion that he does not love her. His subconscious is crying for help. He has exhausted all means for change in his marriage. He hopes that this last attempt at change will cause her to wake up and see that his desires are or should be important to her. He hopes that the affair (in his own twisted way) will lead to a happier marriage.

 

Will it?

 

So many affairs are begun with a passive anger. And then the man is caught up in the passion, and he thinks he loves the OW.

 

But in the end, all is lost, and he is more unhappier than before.

 

All could have been prevented if open communication was given and recived by both partners when the problems first began

 

AW, is it more clear now?

 

Someone said this thread could be a learning experience. This post, to me, bears that out.

 

I agree about the open communication given and received by both parties. I think that is more the issue than sex. Too bad so many don't recognize it.

[Mz. Pixie]

Not condoning cheating in the slightest with this post, however, what you have said can also be related to emotional attachment with your wife from a man's point of view. Yet how many posts do you read about women whose spouses aren't filling those needs?? Heck, I've read posts where these guys are good providers and great fathers but do nothing with these women once they get home. Does that mean that there is something biologically wrong with those men?? Your post could go both ways and the truth is we know that this isn't the case in ALL of them. The sad and simple truth is that people just don't get it sometimes, some men think that if they work hard that is good enough for their wives and some women think that if they clean the house and raise the kids and do the chores, that is good enough for their husbands.

Once again, not condoning cheating in the slightest, but there are quite a few people out there that don't understand the needs of their spouses, despite whatever best intentions these same spouses are demonstrating.

 

Great post.

 

Also, I'd like to say- I'm not ever blaming the wife for the husband cheating.

What I'm saying is that her actions left the marriage vulnerable for an affair. It was entirely Scriv's choice to cheat, but she created the condition which left him vulnerable to another woman's attention.

[Mz. Pixie]

Quite the attitude.

 

Let me make a comparison.

 

My wife loves the fact that I am her best friend and confidant. It is very important that we maintain the emotional connection. For me...this is work in a good sense. She likes to have lunch with me and share her morning. She likes to have coffee with me when she can. This is her way of connecting, and it is a way that I can show her my admiration. She likes me to be a listener and critic. And she thinks I am a great one...her words.

 

Without this, she feels that I do not care for her. She feels that I do not love her. When I do not want to spend that time with her, she feels that maybe I am interested in someone or something else more than her. While it is not true at all, I can find myself tired or too busy to have lunch or coffee. And at night, when I want to watch the March Madness finals, she wants some time together after the kids are in bed.

 

This is important to her.

 

And that is how sex is to me. I have learned to enjoy those times together with her. I have learned to look forward to them. I have learned to adjust my schedule as often as possible so that she has the priority. And hardest of all, I have tried to put my attention on her instead of the latest game.

 

This is marriage.

 

And so when sex is something that is important to me, then how can I not expect the same respect and consideration? When making time for sex just one time a week is the way that I feel connected and respected and admired by her...why is this suddenly not important? Why would this be a need for me to "grow up?"

 

When I have committed to being there for her emotionally and not sharing my time with other women (because I really know that I could have many more EAs than I could ever have PAs. Women have always my listener skills and critic skills. And I say that humbly. But seriously, I know it is true), then why when I have also committed to be hers only physically does this suddenly end one day?

 

The marriage vows go both ways. AW, you have been married for over 30 years, and I assume happily, you are well aware of the sacrifices it takes. So, when a man sacrifices his desire for sex so that he "gets it" only from his wife, he does this out of complete love. But when he sees that she no longer views his desire in this area as important and can compare it to a hunger for food or a "want" that is not necessary. And when the woman who is dearest to his heart decides that he just needs to forget about it and be a big boy, then this turns into frustration and inward anger. He is put into a corner. Interestingly enough, this occurs many times after there are children. This makes divorce very difficult. When I look at my children, I do not want them to lose their family over my need for love and affection through sex. Instead, I suck it up and try to determine why she no longer wants sex?

 

Is it me? Is it her? Or is there someone else who is more important?

 

What can I do?

 

You ask the question that has been on my mind for many years. Even as I see some improvement in my sex life, I still ask what happened in the past? What one magic button could I push? Or am I just no longer physically attractive to her? Would another man do better? Is she better off without me even though she says no?

 

What have I done wrong?

 

And then I get angry. Why can she not tell me what I need to do? Funny thing is...I would move mountains to do what she asks. I would learn how to be better in bed, be a better listener, spend more time with her, and take care of the kids more. BUT...she says I do splendid in all of those areas. It is her she says, not me.

 

This is very frustrating, because I do not see change or an attempt to change the lack of desire.

 

Then I say if it is her, then I can no longer do anything. If it was me, then at least I could do something. But I am helpless and destined to a sexless marriage, unless she decides to change. This is unfair.

 

So, since divorce is not an option due to the breakup of an otherwise happy home. And since it goes against my religious beliefs, I am stuck.

 

Some men when they reach this point will say that a divorce would be public and religious beliefs are minimal when compared to a sexless life. This leaves the affair as an attractive option IF the right person comes along.

 

Funny thin is...OWs sense this need and lack of respect and admiration. They provide that missing ingredient. They make this man feel like the man he felt he always has been. He now thinks that his wife truly did not love him. It was not her, or she would try to change if she loved him. It was not him, or she would ask him to change if she loved him. And this OW simply accepts him as he is...no change necessary. So begins the affair.

 

It is not a matter of growing, my dear, it is a matter of fulfilling the commitment made to one another at the marriage ceremony. The man has finally realized that all along, his wife has not been fulfilling her end of the bargain. Now it is his turn to let out all of that anger and be who he really was meant to be. Now he decides out of anger, since she no longer loves me, then I will begin moving on.

 

But why not divorce first? Because he DOES love his wife. It is a false illusion that he does not love her. His subconscious is crying for help. He has exhausted all means for change in his marriage. He hopes that this last attempt at change will cause her to wake up and see that his desires are or should be important to her. He hopes that the affair (in his own twisted way) will lead to a happier marriage.

 

Will it?

 

So many affairs are begun with a passive anger. And then the man is caught up in the passion, and he thinks he loves the OW.

 

But in the end, all is lost, and he is more unhappier than before.

 

All could have been prevented if open communication was given and recived by both partners when the problems first began

 

AW, is it more clear now?

 

Fantastic post James!!!

[Mz. Pixie]

It doesn't sound to me from your posts like divorce has equaled heaing for you. You don't sound healed, you sound like you're still hurting a lot. I hope you can heal soon I am just trying to say that just because you feel divorce equaled healing "in your case" does not mean it automatically equals healing for everyone who was betrayed.

 

It sounds to me like because of your own hurt, you are trying to hurt others. You spout bitter remarks to everyone who's on either side of infidelity in a marriage and you encourage people to get divorced after infidelity.That is not what someone who is trying to heal, recover and work on their marriage needs to heal. Just because that's what you did doesn't mean it's what works best for everyone, and I think it's rude of you to be mean or discouraging to people who don't feel that divorce is necessarily the best solution after infidelity.

 

You asked for some examples so here are some I've found just by a quick once-over of your past posts. The italicized portions are your own words from previous posts.

 

(You just told me you never berate anyone who has chosen to stay with their spouse after infidelity. However, in this post, you call someone a "twitterpatted fool" for loving someone who betrayed him):

Thats because he is a twitterpated fool. How anyone can love someone so much that would bed down with someone else is beyond me.

 

if she doesn't have a backbone and plays the submissive role and lets him walk all over her

(Again, here you berate someone who chooses to stay with someone who has cheated on her).

 

And here you discourage people from staying married and say they should get divorced after infidelity:

 

Arch, save your breath, or fingers I should say. She doesn't want to hear that. She only wants to hear how great it can be again.

 

Even if there are supposed "success stories" out there, that doesn't mean everything is all well and good.

 

Have you considered divorce? In my view, there is no good reason to stay...

 

So what is your point in being here? To tell everyone who has experienced infidelity to get divorced? It sure sounds like it. Obviously some people do not want that option for themselves, so why spout such discouragement and name calling? Why not try to be positive and see that some marriage do work after infidelity even if yours didn't?

 

Never mind, I'm sure I'm wasting my breath. I was just trying to explain why I find your posts offensive and not helpful. It doesn't really matter though, because I know a lot of people who have happy marriages after infidelity so I completely disagree with your opinion and what bothers me is that you fail to recognize it's just an opinion, it's just what you did, not what everyone should do. Most marriage therapists around the country would disagree with you and I do, too.

 

Great post as well. I can always tell the ones who are still hurting from their posts.

[eeyore1980]

Because many women use sex to manipulate their husbands.

 

I know that happens, but I don't think nearly as often as is claimed.

 

And many of them think that they can make the decision about sex and when it should be had and when it shouldn't and that the husband just has to basically like it or lump it.

 

This is where our logic splits ways. Sex between two people takes two people to perform. Shouldn't both people have to want it, or at least be willing, for it to take place? If you say no, why not? What about kids? If one wants kids, and the other doesn't, does the one who wants them get to have them, and make the other participate in everything to do with them, even if the other has no interest? I don't think so. And I don't think so with sex, either. Usually, if one person wants something that requires another person's active participation, and the other person absolutely doesn't want to do it, then it isn't done. I don't know why sex would be the exception, because sex is a very personal and intimate thing.

 

How many times have you heard a girlfriend say "Well, he has pissed me off so I'll just cut him off". It's the ultimate trump card!

 

I have never had anyone tell me this, which is why I suspect it is not as common as some people would like us all to believe.

 

Many women do stop having sex with their husbands out of resentment and frustration. I certainly had no sex drive in my first marriage because I was not emotionally connected to him. I still did have sex with him on a regular basis but I really wasn't enjoying it much- which is why I understand what you're saying.

 

Yeah, me, too, and funny thing is it still wasn't good enough.

 

I'm not saying that the man shouldn't meet the woman's emotional needs. I'm a very strong advocate of that because I did go outside my marriage to get my needs met. But it works both ways- which is again why I advocate

the concept of the love bank and both partners having their needs met by each other.

 

I agree both partners should have their needs met, but there are other needs to be met besides sex. And if both partners were having their needs met, it seems like the marriage would be in pretty good shape, so I doubt that is what is taking place here.