So I told the wife

[Ladyjane14]

....there are a good portion of women can't just jump into the sack for some woohoo...

 

I don't think women should be forced into doing something they don't want to do. Never that. But like alot of women, I didn't think there was anything I could do about my sluggish libido. I thought it was out of my control. I'd talked to my GYN, who told me there was nothing wrong, but that's about as far as I took it, because I thought that was my only option.

 

What I've learned since though is that, just like any other skill-set, getting "in the mood" can be learned. And there really aren't any tricks to it other than changing the litany of 'stinking thinking' going on in our heads. When you throw out the negative and embrace the positive, next thing you know... you're back in the game.

 

The BRAIN is a woman's most powerful sex organ.

[Mz. Pixie]

I hope this wasn't a thinly veiled dig at me because trust me, honey, I get it.

 

You really haven't been posting here enough to know me if you think I do thinly veiled

 

Do you ever stop to think that maybe HE created the situation wherein she isn't inspired to feel loving toward him? So maybe he's to blame for the situation in the marriage that is giving people like you reason to claim he had the right to cheat on his wife.

 

Sure, he could have created the situation, but I don't think that he did- based on what he's posted. As I said before, he's here posting and she's not.

 

And I've never ever said that he had the right to cheat on his wife.

[Ladyjane14]

Scriv's been posting here for a while and I tell you what I read in his posts.

He's very angry- and I can relate to that anger. I think that he never came here until he'd already made the decision to cheat because he's so angry. I see alot of hurt behind the anger in his posts. But that's just me.

 

Nope. It's not just you.

I see the same thing, and having witnessed how deep the anger and frustration can go through my own husband's eyes... I don't think we can dismiss Scriv as some kind of ego-maniac, just getting his jollies by hurting people.

[Mz. Pixie]

Nope. It's not just you.

I see the same thing, and having witnessed how deep the anger and frustration can go through my own husband's eyes... I don't think we can dismiss Scriv as some kind of ego-maniac, just getting his jollies by hurting people.

 

 

Thanks for weighing in LJ.

 

I think there is alot of projecting in this thread- people taking their anger out on him because they are angry over what their partners have done to them, and I get it. I do. I understand it. I do not understand how they can criticize Scriv for his anger when their posts are filled with as much anger as his is- just directed in another direction.

[Ladyjane14]

You really haven't been posting here enough to know me if you think I do thinly veiled

 

:lmao:

 

You can't hardly blame her though, Pix. You're so nice it's hard to imagine you 'kicking some ass'.

Somebody'd have to be reading quite astutely to see your innate potential for ass-kicking.

[Ladyjane14]

Thanks for weighing in LJ.

 

I think there is alot of projecting in this thread- people taking their anger out on him because they are angry over what their partners have done to them, and I get it. I do. I understand it. I do not understand how they can criticize Scriv for his anger when their posts are filled with as much anger as his is- just directed in another direction.

 

There does indeed seem to be quite a bit of unsupported assumptions going on.

[Mz. Pixie]

:lmao:

 

You can't hardly blame her though, Pix. You're so nice it's hard to imagine you 'kicking some ass'.

Somebody'd have to be reading quite astutely to see your innate potential for ass-kicking.

 

Eh, as always, I just come here to try to help. It's amazing- I have had some PM's from some guys on the board- and they tell me that I understand male sexuality so well- but females don't seem to agree! :lmao:

 

By the way, I've missed ya like crazy around here! Hope things are well for you at home!

[Kasan]

I think that as in all things in life you can take what you want out of this thread.

 

I of course could point fingers and blame, but I'm more interested in how the married men here have responded.

 

What these men have written to me is critical....how do you function in a marriage and not know how your man feels when sex is withheld knowingly and unknowingly.

 

I certainly wish that I had known how men view sex and intimacy 15 years ago and I am very glad to have this knowledge now.

 

We women are pretty verbal about telling our partner what we need to have happen to feel connected but men or at least my man isn't as verbal. The responses on this thread have to me been like the cracking of the male code concerning sexuality in a partnership. I want to listen to the message and not shoot the messenger.

 

Scrivdog comes off as arrogant, but I think his attitude is a form of protectionism because it might just be too painful to say that you aren't desired as a man.

 

Of course here is the usual disclaimer***I don't condone going outside of a marriage or partnership.

[Ladyjane14]

I Just Don't Get Some People...

Why is it that someone can come on this forum and start a thread about something very painful that happened to them, both physically and emotionally, and another poster, because the story may belie their personal situation, will come on and slam the OP and try to make light of their problem in an attempt to discredit and diminish their very real pain? Why are people so mean to folks they don't even know? What could it be that happened in their childhood to make them such a mean spirited person that they would actually relish the pain of another person? Thoughts?

 

Not to get to far off-topic, but I think the "assumption" has been that because of his culpability in making a cheating decision, there's no "real pain" for Scriv. Think about it this way... he didn't HAVE to post. If he was really the guy he's been made out to be, it's highly doubtful that he'd have shared any of this with us at all.

 

YOU believe that there's no valid reason to cheat. Hey, I find cheating to be abhorrent too, believe me. But Kasan's right... there's an opportunity to be had in observation of the behavior and in identifying the underlying causes of infidelity. Whether we agree those causes or not... doesn't change how the cheater feels. And it's the feelings which are valid.

They are... therefore they exist.

[mrmaximum]

That is still one of the most painful memories for me and the one that makes me angry to this day. Looking in my son't eyes as he struggled to tell me that he knew about his dad's ow. He was 20 at the time and he was hurting and was trying not to hurt me. He still hasn't let his dad in his life again. He keeps him at arms length. I always wonder if cheaters have any clue how their actions effect people who they don't think are paying attention.

 

Most are too caught up in their desires to care. They know what they are getting into and when the bomb goes off, then they are surprised at all the pieces of their broken life that may not go back together again.

[mrmaximum]

it might just be too painful to say that you aren't desired as a man.

 

That is all that some have been saying right from the jump. Men tend to view sexual intimacy as the way we are desired. When this no longer happens, men tend to feel the same as a woman who is never appreciated. Glad you learned this Kasan, there are a lot of people who don't or ever do.

[TMCM]

C'mon we are never going to be attractive to women. It is a fact of life.

[Mr. Lucky]

Since this thread seems to have run its course (and pending more input from Scrivdog), I'm going to risk taking it OT by relating a story that may or may not apply...

 

About 5 years ago, I lost both my parents to cancer in a short period of time. As I handled the details of their estate, I was struck by the fact that both had worked their whole lives and had very little to show for it. I decided that I would make sure that I wasn't in the same boat (even though we've always been fairly consistent savers and investors) and, as the person that controls the family finances, started saving very aggressively. Unfortunately, I got absolutely compulsive about it and started questioning every dime my wife was spending because it didn't fit into my "plan". It caused a lot of stress between us.

 

Her response was to start to "control" our sex life. What had been a healthy 2-3 times per week became 2-3 times per month, not hard to figure out since we were fighting so much. And during one of those arguements, that started off about my witholding money and her witholding sex, came the weird idea that I would pay her for "intimacy". I posted about this when I first joined LS; we decided to try it as a game for 90 days or so.

 

The rules were simple. As long as I wasn't unreasonable (couldn't call her in the middle of the day and demand that she come home from work), I could have all the sex I could afford. Since 3x a month was our frequency going in, I got those for free. We settled up every 30 days and agreed that either of us could quit the game at any time and for any reason, including "poor sportsmanship" on the other's part.

 

And you know what? It was f*cking great! I hadn't had this much good sex since our honeymoon. As the sex (and cash) flowed, the tension between us evaporated. The fighting stopped and things were much, much better. Not hard to figure out why.

 

During the game, we were focused on meeting each other's primary need. My wife wanted to live life now, she didn't want to wait 20 years to take a vacation. I didn't want to feel that my sex life was over either as, like most middle-aged men, I feel the clock ticking. Strange process but we both got what we wanted.

 

Now, I don't advocate this for ANYONE else. There are obvious negative connotations that could easily be attached to either of our roles in this. Let the jokes, puns and innuendo fly. But it got us back on track. I learned (again) to pay attention to her needs and she to mine. Game over, things still going well today. Although I'll have to admit, I'm seriously considering a "rematch" this summer...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Lovelybird]

Since this thread seems to have run its course (and pending more input from Scrivdog), I'm going to risk taking it OT by relating a story that may or may not apply...

 

About 5 years ago, I lost both my parents to cancer in a short period of time. As I handled the details of their estate, I was struck by the fact that both had worked their whole lives and had very little to show for it. I decided that I would make sure that I wasn't in the same boat (even though we've always been fairly consistent savers and investors) and, as the person that controls the family finances, started saving very aggressively. Unfortunately, I got absolutely compulsive about it and started questioning every dime my wife was spending because it didn't fit into my "plan". It caused a lot of stress between us.

 

Her response was to start to "control" our sex life. What had been a healthy 2-3 times per week became 2-3 times per month, not hard to figure out since we were fighting so much. And during one of those arguements, that started off about my witholding money and her witholding sex, came the weird idea that I would pay her for "intimacy". I posted about this when I first joined LS; we decided to try it as a game for 90 days or so.

 

The rules were simple. As long as I wasn't unreasonable (couldn't call her in the middle of the day and demand that she come home from work), I could have all the sex I could afford. Since 3x a month was our frequency going in, I got those for free. We settled up every 30 days and agreed that either of us could quit the game at any time and for any reason, including "poor sportsmanship" on the other's part.

 

And you know what? It was f*cking great! I hadn't had this much good sex since our honeymoon. As the sex (and cash) flowed, the tension between us evaporated. The fighting stopped and things were much, much better. Not hard to figure out why.

 

During the game, we were focused on meeting each other's primary need. My wife wanted to live life now, she didn't want to wait 20 years to take a vacation. I didn't want to feel that my sex life was over either as, like most middle-aged men, I feel the clock ticking. Strange process but we both got what we wanted.

 

Now, I don't advocate this for ANYONE else. There are obvious negative connotations that could easily be attached to either of our roles in this. Let the jokes, puns and innuendo fly. But it got us back on track. I learned (again) to pay attention to her needs and she to mine. Game over, things still going well today. Although I'll have to admit, I'm seriously considering a "rematch" this summer...

 

Mr. Lucky

very interesting !

 

maybe that is marriage about: CREATIVE

[Ladyjane14]

Since this thread seems to have run its course (and pending more input from Scrivdog), I'm going to risk taking it OT by relating a story that may or may not apply...

 

About 5 years ago, I lost both my parents to cancer in a short period of time. As I handled the details of their estate, I was struck by the fact that both had worked their whole lives and had very little to show for it. I decided that I would make sure that I wasn't in the same boat (even though we've always been fairly consistent savers and investors) and, as the person that controls the family finances, started saving very aggressively. Unfortunately, I got absolutely compulsive about it and started questioning every dime my wife was spending because it didn't fit into my "plan". It caused a lot of stress between us.

 

Her response was to start to "control" our sex life. What had been a healthy 2-3 times per week became 2-3 times per month, not hard to figure out since we were fighting so much. And during one of those arguements, that started off about my witholding money and her witholding sex, came the weird idea that I would pay her for "intimacy". I posted about this when I first joined LS; we decided to try it as a game for 90 days or so.

 

The rules were simple. As long as I wasn't unreasonable (couldn't call her in the middle of the day and demand that she come home from work), I could have all the sex I could afford. Since 3x a month was our frequency going in, I got those for free. We settled up every 30 days and agreed that either of us could quit the game at any time and for any reason, including "poor sportsmanship" on the other's part.

 

And you know what? It was f*cking great! I hadn't had this much good sex since our honeymoon. As the sex (and cash) flowed, the tension between us evaporated. The fighting stopped and things were much, much better. Not hard to figure out why.

 

During the game, we were focused on meeting each other's primary need. My wife wanted to live life now, she didn't want to wait 20 years to take a vacation. I didn't want to feel that my sex life was over either as, like most middle-aged men, I feel the clock ticking. Strange process but we both got what we wanted.

 

Now, I don't advocate this for ANYONE else. There are obvious negative connotations that could easily be attached to either of our roles in this. Let the jokes, puns and innuendo fly. But it got us back on track. I learned (again) to pay attention to her needs and she to mine. Game over, things still going well today. Although I'll have to admit, I'm seriously considering a "rematch" this summer...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I think that's absolutely fabulous.

 

You're right... it wouldn't work for everyone. But it addressed the resentments of both parties in a very specific way, going right to the heart of each of your concerns. Your solution really did put you each in a position to not only get a bird's eye view of one another's needs... but to be rewarded for doing so.

 

Kudos. That's creative problem-solving at it's finest if you ask me.

[Darth Vader]

Why would he close the thread? I feel there's a lot of useful discussion going on...

 

 

A disturbance in the force!

[JamesM]

And during one of those arguements, that started off about my witholding money and her witholding sex, came the weird idea that I would pay her for "intimacy". I posted about this when I first joined LS; we decided to try it as a game for 90 days or so.

 

 

 

Now, I don't advocate this for ANYONE else. There are obvious negative connotations that could easily be attached to either of our roles in this. Let the jokes, puns and innuendo fly. But it got us back on track. I learned (again) to pay attention to her needs and she to mine. Game over, things still going well today. Although I'll have to admit, I'm seriously considering a "rematch" this summer...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I have been wondering if you still followed this. Every time I see your name I remember that thread.

 

I am glad that it is working for you.

[Darth Vader]

Because many women use sex to manipulate their husbands. And many of them think that they can make the decision about sex and when it should be had and when it shouldn't and that the husband just has to basically like it or lump it. How many times have you heard a girlfriend say "Well, he has pissed me off so I'll just cut him off". It's the ultimate trump card!

 

That's why many men are wusses, or made into them by sex control!

 

Many say "Do what I say, when I say, or else"!

Edited March 15, 2008 by Darth Vader

[Mr. Lucky]

I have been wondering if you still followed this. Every time I see your name I remember that thread.

 

I am glad that it is working for you.

Thanks, James. It was a real wake up call as it helped me see the analogy between the two points of view. Just as I was abitrarily and unilaterally making financial decisions the affected both of us, so was my wife making one-sided decisions about our sex life. Not fair for either one of us.

 

I wonder if, in many marriages, women similarly find that sex is one of the few things that they can control. In a male dominated world, if you're a stay at home Mom, the balance of power might not be tilted in your favor. Your H makes the money and so he may feel entitled to make those financial (and other) decisions. He may just rationalize that as "that's what a man does". Are some wives that withold just trying to achieve equal footing?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Dominique]

C'mon we are never going to be attractive to women. It is a fact of life.

 

 

What absolute nonsense.

 

I love men. I love the energy of men, I love being attractive to men, I love to adore whom I adore, I never feel fully feminine unless there is a suitor in my life. I say this as a very accomplished, very "independent" woman.

 

Please, please guys....Do not get cynical about all of this, and there are wonderful, beautiful women out there, with degrees and dreams and goals and a love of men.....Yes it is all "difficult" but how gray life would be without the male-female energy of life...

[Ladyjane14]

I wonder if, in many marriages, women similarly find that sex is one of the few things that they can control. In a male dominated world, if you're a stay at home Mom, the balance of power might not be tilted in your favor. Your H makes the money and so he may feel entitled to make those financial (and other) decisions. He may just rationalize that as "that's what a man does". Are some wives that withold just trying to achieve equal footing?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Nope. It's just that when you guys act like that... you're simply not attractive.

 

A man who exhibits controlling behavior within the marriage may just as well stick his wife in a cold shower. It has the same affect on her libido.

 

With only one-twentieth of the testosterone, we just don't have the same biological drive. So, appealing to a woman's brain is important. Sex appeal is important... and it's not all about good looks and tight bodies. Good stuff to be sure, but it's more about smiles, and charm, and flirting, and treating her like she's the first woman God ever made right.

 

Surly, pouty, controlling men just aren't sexy. Simple as that.

[Tony]

This thread has had ample time to give the OP feedback. After nearly 400 replies it has gotten somewhat off topic so it's time to close it and move on. I hope everyone got something good out of it. Thanks to all who participated.

Edited March 15, 2008 by Tony