So I told the wife

[Mustang Sally]

Ok.

Is anyone else baffled by the sheer amount of the following that seems to be (over?)represented here on LS?

1) the "withholders" who's spouses ostensibly were nothing but complete horndogs with no time to do anything but demand constant sexual gratification from the "withholding" spouse

 

and

2) the "withheld froms" whose spouses ostensibly have sex with them only when the moon is high and the red wolf howls, and Venus is aligned with Jupiter during the summer solstice...

And even then, they never do more than lay there, limp during the sex act.

 

and

3) the BS's who gave everything they had (including the proverbial kitchen sink) and thensome to the relationship but of course no form of emotion was ever returned to them

 

and

I could go on and on, but you get my drift.

 

Seems like we've turned into a bunch of walking cliche's here at LS rather than objective, rational, honest people who are willing to consider (and I do mean REALLY CONSIDER) that there might be more sides to any particular story than one.

 

Hmmm. Or maybe it's just me....

<sigh>

[eeyore1980]

See ladies... both these arguments are just as applicable and just as valid to the other party as well. For a man who's married and not getting his sexual needs met, a marriage license shouldn't sentence HIM to a lifetime of near abstinence. And most men in this position DO make their needs known, and usually they're fairly LOUD about it.

 

(Hi Pix! Hi Owl! ..and Hi H2T! )

 

Maybe it is not volume that is needed, but constructive conversation. If I want something from someone, I try to ask nicely for it. I don't present it as owed to me, as my right to have, etc. And if that someone doesn't want to give it to me, and I ask why, I then LISTEN to what they tell me. If I still want it, I would then try to address the issues of why it is not being given, help if there is something I can do, try to explain what it means to me to have it, that kind of thing.

I don't see much of that going on at all. What I see are demands, threats, ultimatums, punishments, emotional blackmail, etc. Not very conducive to building a good relationship.

[eeyore1980]

Someone let LJ in here?????

 

 

Oh yeah...I meant...HI LJ!!!! Nice to "see" you again, friend!

 

Side note...anyone "seen" Scriv recently? Lots of activity on this thread...just not much by him.

 

Yeah, I've been wondering if we ran him off, or if he is currently too busy facing the fallout to have time to post.

[JustBreathe]

Here's a thought, let us assume you are ScrivDog and aren't getting any sex from your wife and it's affecting your self esteem and your life. You don't want to end your marriage as it is fine in all other aspects.

 

You try to talk to your wife and she won't listen or doesn't care. You try to reason with her and ask her if she'd be willing to get some marriage counseling or whatever to address the problem. She refuses to go.

 

What is wrong with approaching your wife then and saying, okay, if you refuse me sex then will you be okay with my having sexual relationships outside the marriage? I don't want to end our marriage. I just need to fulfill a basic human need. No demands. Just looking for a fair solution to the problem.

 

I think any woman would do the following:

 

1) Concede and go with him to counseling to address our issues;

 

2) Agree to let him have sex outside the marriage as it would only be fair;

 

3) Tell him to leave because I am simply not interested in ever having sex with him and he deserves a full life.

 

Would you agree or disagree?

[Ladyjane14]

Maybe it is not volume that is needed, but constructive conversation. If I want something from someone, I try to ask nicely for it. I don't present it as owed to me, as my right to have, etc. And if that someone doesn't want to give it to me, and I ask why, I then LISTEN to what they tell me. If I still want it, I would then try to address the issues of why it is not being given, help if there is something I can do, try to explain what it means to me to have it, that kind of thing.

I don't see much of that going on at all. What I see are demands, threats, ultimatums, punishments, emotional blackmail, etc. Not very conducive to building a good relationship.

 

A good point. And for a long time, I shared that POV. But... what I learned was that even though the "demands, threats, ultimatums, punishments, emotional blackmail, etc." on the part of my husband weren't nice to hear... they were still COMMUNICATION.

 

Sometimes there's alot of chaff mixed in with the wheat. Our partners almost always tell us what's going on in their heads, but when their tone is negative, we tend to be dismissive of the entire message. We end up throwing the wheat out with the chaff, and missing the important little kernels of information that might have SOLVED the whole problem.

 

Men have a harder time processing emotional data than women do. Most often their "go-to" emotion when they're frustrated is Anger. Now, that's not to say that they aren't just as deep and emotionally complex as women... only that they need more time to sort out their feelings.

 

A guy might show you anger when what he's really feeling is something else entirely... like anxiety, insecurity, depression, etc. He just can't sort it out on-the-fly like we can. He's got to wait until after the flare-up and study on it a bit.

 

I've found that nearly ALL of the emotional damage I had been sustaining during the first 20 years of marriage was due to the fact that I didn't understand this, and I was taking these outbursts personally. These days... I back off and let him sort it out. Nine times out of ten, the conflict ends there.

[eeyore1980]

Well I got news for you there. it won't work out for my family. My kids lives have been destroyed by a cheater. There is nothing stopping my kids from now becoming white trash with the exception of me going back to court and fighting for custody. Fat chance of that happening.

 

So while you sit there with your "thats the way it goes, thats the breaks" attitude, some people's lives have truly been destroyed by the actions of certain people.

 

but hey, thats the breaks right? sucks to be my kids, oh well.

 

This is a very good point, and has been brought up by several people. I even brought this up in my own thread.

 

What about the kids? You think I haven't put up with a lot of crap from H for my kids? As far as my H cheating on me, whether I stay or go, my kids have already been hurt very deeply by what has gone on here. When a person has children, they have a responsibility to them, and that means they don't always get what they want, that means there are other people to consider besides themselves, they don't always come first, so grow up and get over yourselves. I don't know if I will ever forgive H for what he has put OUR kids through.

[jj2007]

I've said all along, it takes a special person who is a BS to take back their cheating spouse and give them a chance. Thumbs is one, Owl is another...Dazed1(aka DazednConfused) was another, but as time went on their marriage didn't make it. Hey, 2 outta 3 ain't bad.

 

Another BS here that took my H back and gave him another chance. It is a long hard road but our marriage is thriving. Just wanted to echo that some marriages DO survive infidelity. But I think the key is that both partners have to put forth the effort and both have to want to make it work.

 

OP: I hope you and your wife both find the happiness you deserve. With or without each other. Good for you for telling her. Sometimes you have to rock the boat so you both don't continue to sit there stagnant. I wish you both the best.

[eeyore1980]

Fallout - i.e. hanging from the ceiling by his testicals while his W cackles manically, dancing beneath?

 

LMAO!

There's a thought for the day.

[eeyore1980]

Ok.

Is anyone else baffled by the sheer amount of the following that seems to be (over?)represented here on LS?

1) the "withholders" who's spouses ostensibly were nothing but complete horndogs with no time to do anything but demand constant sexual gratification from the "withholding" spouse

 

and

2) the "withheld froms" whose spouses ostensibly have sex with them only when the moon is high and the red wolf howls, and Venus is aligned with Jupiter during the summer solstice...

And even then, they never do more than lay there, limp during the sex act.

 

and

3) the BS's who gave everything they had (including the proverbial kitchen sink) and thensome to the relationship but of course no form of emotion was ever returned to them

 

and

I could go on and on, but you get my drift.

 

Seems like we've turned into a bunch of walking cliche's here at LS rather than objective, rational, honest people who are willing to consider (and I do mean REALLY CONSIDER) that there might be more sides to any particular story than one.

 

Hmmm. Or maybe it's just me....

<sigh>

 

Well, I have heard they are cliche's for reasons. Sign me up under 1 as reformed, and also under 3.

[Ladyjane14]

Here's a thought, let us assume you are ScrivDog and aren't getting any sex from your wife and it's affecting your self esteem and your life. You don't want to end your marriage as it is fine in all other aspects.

 

You try to talk to your wife and she won't listen or doesn't care. You try to reason with her and ask her if she'd be willing to get some marriage counseling or whatever to address the problem. She refuses to go.

 

What is wrong with approaching your wife then and saying, okay, if you refuse me sex then will you be okay with my having sexual relationships outside the marriage? I don't want to end our marriage. I just need to fulfill a basic human need. No demands. Just looking for a fair solution to the problem.

 

I think any woman would do the following:

 

1) Concede and go with him to counseling to address our issues;

 

2) Agree to let him have sex outside the marriage as it would only be fair;

 

3) Tell him to leave because I am simply not interested in ever having sex with him and he deserves a full life.

 

Would you agree or disagree?

 

I've tried and tried to tell some of these guys that the solution is EDUCATION. That both partners have to understand the other's POV, and that it's so important not to give up and not to accept the problem as insurmountable.

 

Sometimes, a woman just won't listen until she sees her man's taillights in the driveway.

But no matter HOW stubborn she might be, or HOW secure in her position... I guarantee you, when she's sitting on the edge of her bed, crying and wondering what went wrong, the thought will occur to her that maybe she could have done some things differently.

 

Heck, I've always wondered what the reaction would be if a sex-starved husband first sees his attorney and draws up a legal waiver saying he can't be sued on grounds of adultery due to spousal neglect. I'm thinking once a woman has an actual document in front of her for her signature, one which negates future fidelity in the marriage... she'd have to be doing a little hard thinking.

[Jess-Belle]

Here's a thought, let us assume you are ScrivDog and aren't getting any sex from your wife and it's affecting your self esteem and your life. You don't want to end your marriage as it is fine in all other aspects.

 

You try to talk to your wife and she won't listen or doesn't care. You try to reason with her and ask her if she'd be willing to get some marriage counseling or whatever to address the problem. She refuses to go.

 

What is wrong with approaching your wife then and saying, okay, if you refuse me sex then will you be okay with my having sexual relationships outside the marriage? I don't want to end our marriage. I just need to fulfill a basic human need. No demands. Just looking for a fair solution to the problem.

 

I think any woman would do the following:

 

1) Concede and go with him to counseling to address our issues;

 

2) Agree to let him have sex outside the marriage as it would only be fair;

 

3) Tell him to leave because I am simply not interested in ever having sex with him and he deserves a full life.

 

Would you agree or disagree?

 

I think if a man were to say that, and even to drive the point home, already had a "candidate" lined up, a woman would have to be nuts to not have that make her snap into some sort of action.

[twice_shy]

Here's a thought, let us assume you are ScrivDog and aren't getting any sex from your wife and it's affecting your self esteem and your life. You don't want to end your marriage as it is fine in all other aspects.

 

You try to talk to your wife and she won't listen or doesn't care. You try to reason with her and ask her if she'd be willing to get some marriage counseling or whatever to address the problem. She refuses to go.

 

What is wrong with approaching your wife then and saying, okay, if you refuse me sex then will you be okay with my having sexual relationships outside the marriage? I don't want to end our marriage. I just need to fulfill a basic human need. No demands. Just looking for a fair solution to the problem.

 

I think any woman would do the following:

 

1) Concede and go with him to counseling to address our issues;

 

2) Agree to let him have sex outside the marriage as it would only be fair;

 

3) Tell him to leave because I am simply not interested in ever having sex with him and he deserves a full life.

 

Would you agree or disagree?

 

or

 

4) visit a divorce attorney the next day and draw up plans to take 1/2.

 

Honestly, if one feels the need to get sex outside the marriage it is NOT fine in all other aspects. If it is that miserable then he needs to man up and leave.

[twice_shy]

Another BS here that took my H back and gave him another chance. It is a long hard road but our marriage is thriving. Just wanted to echo that some marriages DO survive infidelity. But I think the key is that both partners have to put forth the effort and both have to want to make it work.

 

So you never EVER find yourself thinking about what he did to you and you trust him 100% eh? You think he won't do it again?

 

I understand that your marriage may be doing just fine, but honestly, can you say that things DEEP DOWN with you are just fine and dandy with everything? I am truly curious.

[angie2443]

Ok.

Is anyone else baffled by the sheer amount of the following that seems to be (over?)represented here on LS?

1) the "withholders" who's spouses ostensibly were nothing but complete horndogs with no time to do anything but demand constant sexual gratification from the "withholding" spouse

 

and

2) the "withheld froms" whose spouses ostensibly have sex with them only when the moon is high and the red wolf howls, and Venus is aligned with Jupiter during the summer solstice...

And even then, they never do more than lay there, limp during the sex act.

 

and

3) the BS's who gave everything they had (including the proverbial kitchen sink) and thensome to the relationship but of course no form of emotion was ever returned to them

 

and

I could go on and on, but you get my drift.

 

Seems like we've turned into a bunch of walking cliche's here at LS rather than objective, rational, honest people who are willing to consider (and I do mean REALLY CONSIDER) that there might be more sides to any particular story than one.

 

Hmmm. Or maybe it's just me....

<sigh>

 

No, I don't think it's just you. I think when people are posting, and they are talking about such painful subjects, it's hard to present the side of the person that (they feel) did them an injustice. Heck, even if there isn't too much emotion involved, it's still sometimes hard to see another's point of view unless we've walked in their shoes.

 

For me, I'm fully aware that I've played a part in my husband's treatment of me, although I don't think I played a part in his EA because that started before I came into the picture (long story). Just as he had a responsibility to treat me with respect, I had a responsibility to tell him when he was crossing the line with me. I had a responsibility to stand up to him from the beginning, so we didn't get into the pattern of him bieng a bully, and me bieng a victom.

 

Funny thing is, it's not so hard to tell his side of the story, but I don't feel the need to when I come here. When I come here, I'm trying to figure him out, or trying to come to terms with what he did. I don't come here to figure myself out, or try to come to terms with I did. Maybe that's why I don't post his side of the story. Maybe a lot of LS posters are like me in this regard.

[jj2007]

So you never EVER find yourself thinking about what he did to you and you trust him 100% eh? You think he won't do it again?

 

I understand that your marriage may be doing just fine, but honestly, can you say that things DEEP DOWN with you are just fine and dandy with everything? I am truly curious.

 

I do think about what he did to me, never said I didn't. As time goes by I don't think about it as much. Right now, yes I do trust him because he is an open book to me and he hasn't given me any reason not to and he is doing everything he needs to do to let me know that he is willing to work on our problems with me and not run to someone else when the going gets tough. I have never trusted anyone in my life 100%. Except for maybe my mother.

 

It is possible that he could do it again but I have already told him this is his chance-he cheats again and I am gone.

 

I live in the now. We never know which day will be our last. As of now, yes I can say that I am happy with our relationship and we are in this together. If anything changes, I'll let ya know!

[eeyore1980]

A good point. And for a long time, I shared that POV. But... what I learned was that even though the "demands, threats, ultimatums, punishments, emotional blackmail, etc." on the part of my husband weren't nice to hear... they were still COMMUNICATION.

 

Sometimes there's alot of chaff mixed in with the wheat. Our partners almost always tell us what's going on in their heads, but when their tone is negative, we tend to be dismissive of the entire message. We end up throwing the wheat out with the chaff, and missing the important little kernels of information that might have SOLVED the whole problem.

 

Men have a harder time processing emotional data than women do. Most often their "go-to" emotion when they're frustrated is Anger. Now, that's not to say that they aren't just as deep and emotionally complex as women... only that they need more time to sort out their feelings.

 

A guy might show you anger when what he's really feeling is something else entirely... like anxiety, insecurity, depression, etc. He just can't sort it out on-the-fly like we can. He's got to wait until after the flare-up and study on it a bit.

 

I've found that nearly ALL of the emotional damage I had been sustaining during the first 20 years of marriage was due to the fact that I didn't understand this, and I was taking these outbursts personally. These days... I back off and let him sort it out. Nine times out of ten, the conflict ends there.

 

I'm struggling to answer this without writing a novel.

My marriage has been very unbalanced from day one. I was more than willing to put up with this for years, as at that time I didn't believe I deserved any better. However, I grew. I worked on myself. I tried to identify my faults, and fix them whenever possible. I wasn't always successful, but I did try. Most of our problems have never been resolved, I have always just sucked it up for one reason or another. That just isn't an option for me anymore.

As far as the lack of sex... I was very into sex for the first 6 years of our marriage. I wanted it more than he did, and he didn't see any problem with turning me down. When I got pregnant with my son, I lost a lot of my sex drive, but I still had sex every time he wanted it. Two weeks past due, I'm diagnosed with pnuemonia, labor induced, 9lb 11oz baby. Two weeks later, hubby wants sex, I am still sick, exhausted, and in no shape. OK. Two weeks after that, hubby wants sex again, I tried, hurt too bad, and that is where the punishment began. That is when I learned I wasn't allowed to say no. Double standard.

This was never a matter of me not understanding his needs, or of me not trying everything I could think of to fix this. I know there are women, and men, out there who just don't want to, and don't give a crap about why, but I have found that is more the exception, most of the people I know have no desire to deliberately cause so much chaos in their marriage. In my case, my marriage has mostly been about I give, he takes. He would even tell you that himself, now, but his recognizing this has been a pretty recent development, brought about by me going to file for divorce and needing $5000 to get it. I guess I could have used an affair to do this same thing, but up until the last year, I have been fully invested in trying to keep this marriage intact. My revelation was one person can't do it, no matter how hard they try, and also I was attaching way too much importance to a marriage with a man who didn't seem to attach too much importance to me, and what I wanted and needed.

[angie2443]

See ladies... both these arguments are just as applicable and just as valid to the other party as well. For a man who's married and not getting his sexual needs met, a marriage license shouldn't sentence HIM to a lifetime of near abstinence. And most men in this position DO make their needs known, and usually they're fairly LOUD about it.

 

You know, for people like me (a former, albeit inadvertent, "withholder" ), and JamesM and TommyR, who've made progress in dealing with this issue... we understand how a guy like Scriv feels. This is like the penultimate WORST thing you can do to a man in terms of causing emotional scars, (the worst being committing adultery yourself, AFTER having withheld sex and affection from him ).

 

Consistent sexual rejection from a mate causes a chasm in the relationship, a deep rift, whereby emotional intimacy becomes impossible to achieve. Yeah, men are able to compartmentalize sex in such a way as to make it nearly meaningless in some instances... but when it comes to a life-mate, their hearts are entirely on their sleeves. The sense of rejection, the loss of emotional intimacy cut them to the core.

 

And that's just one aspect of a man's relationship to sex... a relationship which CANNOT be defined by "the female lens". For men, I'm sure it seems simplicity itself, but for women... we're talking about a nearly incomprehensible way of looking at manhood.

 

Scriv, and other guy's like him, end up feeling very angry and frustrated with their inability to make their partner REALLY UNDERSTAND the problem. In alot of ways... their sense of betrayal and rejection is so deep that it feels like their partner is the one who was first to abandon the relationship.

 

 

 

On a side note, and interestingly enough, Twice Shy and Scriv have something in common in the fact that they've both reacted with an almost primordial sense of anger upon the sexual abandonment of their partners. The loss of sexual/emotional intimacy is tough for anybody to take, but I think sometimes in men, it presents something of a primal insult.

 

 

(Hi Pix! Hi Owl! ..and Hi H2T! )

 

Problem is, myself and others don't if SD's wife was really withholding sex from him. Sure, he sais so, but, as the saying goes, there's three sides to every story. Maybe he abused her. Maybe he said things and did things that made her skin crawl, and it made her sick to her stomach to lay with him. Sex is, in many ways, an act of vulnerability. When you let someone in, and that person is someone who harmed you, you are setting yourself to be harmed again. I don't if this was the case with SD's wife, but it might have been. No one here really knows.

 

Again, I never withheld sex from my husband ( I honestly thought the withholdning thing was a myth untill I heard a couple of people here on LS say they've done it. Maybe I'm just a naive person). I do know that there have a few times where I have been so hurt, and demeaned by my husband that I couldn't even look at him. I'm thankful we both cared enough to work on that, or we wouldn't have made it.

[JustBreathe]

I agree that both people have to look at things from each other's perspective to solve their problems. But after an affair enters the picture, rare is the BS who would care about looking at the problem through her their spouse's eyes. It is still probably true that when their husband cheats women will oftentimes look within and try to see what they did wrong, most often, however, whatever they did or didn't do doesn't warrant their husband's cheating and they will slowly come to know that. Cheating is abusive, vindictive and destructive behavior. Instead of looking within, cheating men immediately point the finger and pin all the blame on the wife when in fact she is not at all responsible.

 

I just think given the OPPORTUNITY to deal FAIRLY with their issues, married people, particularly women, will almost always try to find a middle ground. If your partner isn't interested in trying to do so, then you weigh the importance of that issue and then either you learn to live with it or you get out.

 

If I didn't want to ever have sex with my husband, I wouldn't expect him to become a monk. I would certainly be okay with him going out for it, so long as he didn't rub it in my face, kept it to himself, and so long as he never bothered me for sex again. But then again, our marriage is ending anyway so that perhaps that casts a spin on it. But that would be my compromise.

 

I suspect ScrivDog never tried to find a middle ground.

[Mustang Sally]

Funny thing is, it's not so hard to tell his side of the story, but I don't feel the need to when I come here.

.......

 

Maybe a lot of LS posters are like me in this regard.

I think I get what you are saying angie.

 

I would just offer to you (and anyone else that may have similar feelings) that maybe part of answering this:

 

I'm trying to figure him out, or trying to come to terms with what he did.

 

requires also answering THIS:

to figure myself out, or try to come to terms with I did.

That's all I'm suggesting.

[Mr. Lucky]

This anecdote:

Well I got news for you there. it won't work out for my family. My kids lives have been destroyed by a cheater. There is nothing stopping my kids from now becoming white trash with the exception of me going back to court and fighting for custody. Fat chance of that happening.

 

So while you sit there with your "thats the way it goes, thats the breaks" attitude, some people's lives have truly been destroyed by the actions of certain people.

 

but hey, thats the breaks right? sucks to be my kids, oh well.

 

would seem somewhat to contradict this:

 

Ummm... We're in the 21st century now. It just doesn't happen like that these days. And BTW, I paid for the majority of the mortgage. And I was the veteran who secured the VA loan when the house was purchased.

 

Sameold, I wasn't focused on who paid for the house or qualified for the loan (although, in the real estate market, that's now quite an accomplishment ). What I meant was that, as a man, frequently you're out and someone else is (quickly) in...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mr. Lucky]

Wow Mr. Lucky that statement is really sexist and offensive. For one thing, we women can pay for material things just fine nowadays. I am an attorney and I have my own house and pay my own mortgage.

Counselor, I throw myself on the mercy of the court. No offense meant. I didn't say "exclusively" paid for as I'm aware that both parties contribute.

For another thing, even if I were a married housewife, my emotional investment into the marriage and family would contribute to the house my husband "paid for" and all the other benefits we share as a married couple, just as much as his financial investment.

That's true but, even in the event of divorce, there's often a return on the wife's investment - she's still living in the house. My exW stayed in our 3K sq ft home with our son. I moved into a studio apartment so small I could stand in the middle and touch all four walls. I don't think my situation is that unusual...

 

Mr. Lucky

Edited March 12, 2008 by Mr. Lucky

[Lovelybird]

Two weeks past due, I'm diagnosed with pnuemonia, labor induced, 9lb 11oz baby. Two weeks later, hubby wants sex, I am still sick, exhausted, and in no shape. OK. Two weeks after that, hubby wants sex again, I tried, hurt too bad, and that is where the punishment began. That is when I learned I wasn't allowed to say no. Double standard.

.

my God, he is so self-centred. He didn't know you are hurt????!!!!!

 

are men more self-centred than women generally?

[SoHotZanzibar]

are men more self-centered than women generally?

 

Now there is no real way to know the answer to that question. That's all relative. I've experienced just as many self-centered men as women.

[american-woman]

Actually this is not true. While I do not condone affairs, there ARE reasons that compel someone to choose an affair. By saying this, you make it sound like Scrivdog's wife has no blame for this situation. This is false.

 

She could have better prevented an affair by showing her husband that she loves him and respects him. Marriage is not all one-sided. It is not simply a situation where someone can refuse sex based on whatever reason, and then sit back and say "he cheated on me." Cheating is done two ways...seeking sex elsewhere or by withholding sex. Sex is a necessary part of marriage. Since fidelity is mainly defined as sex within marriage, then this must not only be earned but it must be freely given.

 

If there are reasons that the BS has decided sex is not necessary or that the partner is not worthy of it, then this lack of communication to the other person is one big reason for an affair.

 

If marriage is to thrive and survive, then two people need to communicate their concerns and emotions. ScrivDog's wife chose not to have sex with her husband for whatever reason, BUT she failed to communicate why to her husband. Perhaps if she had taken the responsibility of showing why she no longer felt sexual to him, then there would have been no affair.

 

Simply blaming the cheating spouse for all of the problems is not only unfair, it is incorrect.

 

 

I will say it again, There is no reason for having an affair. If there was such a problem in his marriage then why did`nt he get a divorce instead of having an affair? His wife did`nt make him have the affair that is the excuse he is using to justify it. He is a cake eater. It is a flaw in the WP to have the affair.

 

He had a choice stay and fix the marriage or divorce then date.

[JamesM]

I will say it again, There is no reason for having an affair. If there was such a problem in his marriage then why did`nt he get a divorce instead of having an affair? His wife did`nt make him have the affair that is the excuse he is using to justify it. He is a cake eater. It is a flaw in the WP to have the affair.

 

He had a choice stay and fix the marriage or divorce then date.

 

I think what you are saying is that there is no reason that justifies an affair, and I agree. But to say that there are no reasons that contribute to an affair is ignoring the facts. Affairs do not happen in seemingly perfect marriages most of the time. Yes, they do on occasion. Usually there are events that have contributed to a person being "weak enough" to choose an affair.

 

Women tend to have affairs when there husbands ignore their emotional needs, while men tend to have affairs when there sexual needs (also related to emotional connection) are ignored. When a woman no longer has a husband at home who takes the time to listen and talk, then she is likely to become emotionally attached to a man who becomes a very good confidant. Men tend to choose affairs when another woman fills the void of showing respect and admiration (which may not be happening at home).

 

Yes, there are good reasons why someone cannot be a perfect mate, but as someone said here to me, "Dude, you had better seduce your own wife or someone else may."

 

None of this justifies an affair, but if we do not sit back and see why the affair occurred, we will not be able to prevent another one whether it be in this marriage or the next.

 

To simply say that the affair happened because there was some inner flaw (as if it is genetic) which has no connection to the partner is again ignoring reality. This may apply to a guy who visits prostitutes on a regular basis, but guys will tell you that to choose an affair means that much more is involved. Not only does an affair involve the emotions, but it involves another relationship. Visiting prostitutes fills the addiction needs of sex, but it rarely fills the need for an emotional connection through admiration and respect.

 

So, again, affairs are not simply a bad choice which has no connection to other events in life...such as marriage.

Edited March 13, 2008 by JamesM