should you force your lover to tell the BS?

[MimiMe]

I was wondering what you all think--or have experienced...

 

According to him, he wasn't trying--she was (apparently he wasn't there (sarcasm))

 

:lmao: Oh Jeez! HEY you neva know!! she could have been tricking it too.

 

Not sure what side of the pro-choice spectrum you lay on, but to start a family with a person that was not true to his own values or that perhaps lacks them, it's going to be very very hard.

 

Wish you luck to you and her both. And to him, Child Support!

[MimiMe]

Hi Gwyn. I definitely think that cheating on someone is lie, especially when you're married. You made a promise to that person to only be with them. So if you go back on that promise and change the nature of the relationship without informing them... well then you're just living one big sham, huh!

 

I think that's why spouses feel so incredibly betrayed when they learn of an affair -- it's not just the act of their spouse having sex or being emotionally close with someone else that hurts them. It's the fact that they expected to be able to trust their partner in life. That's what a marriage is supposed to be all about -- us against the world, no matter what. It's the worst kind of feeling when someone you think is the closest person to you ever does something against against you. So to me it's definitely a lie and it's also stealing that person's right to know what kind of relationship they are actually in. It seems like your'e starting to understand that now, which I see as a good step.

 

Now for your specific situation. I can see how you think MM should tell his wife that he had an affair and that you are pregnant. I think his wife has a right to know (and that she did even before you were pregnant) because, as I said above, she has the right to know what kind of a relationship (not a monogamous one) she is in. Then she can make her own decisions about whether or not to stay in it. I can see how you would want to make him tell her or even how you would want to tell her yourself. I would feel like, "you can't just make a baby with me and then act like I don't even exist, and try to just sweep me under a rug." Although it's funny because while the affair was active I would feel like "let's sweep this under the rug until the time is right for us to be in public (if I thought we had a future together), no one has to know yet, because that won't make us look good and that will hurt people." So I guess in a way it's selfish thinking but I can understand it, especially with a child (children) involved.

 

I know I'm going against everyone else here but I disagree that it's not your place to tell, because MM (with your help) made his relationship your business when he started having an affair with you and when you two got pregnant. It is no longer just one relationship, him and his wife. Due to the actions on both of your parts, there is now a third party (you) and actually a second relationship (the affair) going on. (And now there are more parties -- the twins-to-be --- yikes!) Therefore I feel he opened up his marriage to another relationship, not just himself, and he should completely expect his wife to find out by whatever way imaginable. Now that he has made himself the father of your babies (also, with your help), you have every right for everyone in the world to know he is the father if you want to do that. I don't think you should keep it a secret just for her sake or his sake, I think you should decide what is best for you and your babies and do that. Try not to think about what is best for them because -- I'm sorry and it may sound harsh -- it's way too late for that.

 

Now, that doesn't mean I think YOU telling her is the right thing (for either you or her). I think it's the right thing for him to do and that she needs to hear it from him -- but it doesn't sound like he ever does the right thing so there's no use in discussing that. I think as a matter of practicality he will have to tell her, so let him deal with how to do that. I think that telling her will just cause you more stress and heartache. You will know how bad she feels and you will feel guilty or ashamed. Or you will feel defensive, like you had a right to be with him, and that will cause you stress. Etc. (You probably feel all of these things and more anyway, but why compound them by actively creating more drama to deal with).

 

The possibilities for more drama and pain as long as MM is in your life are endless, and I really think that the best think you can do is put MM in your past and move on. But don't just move on and say "oh well, that's that" (obviously you can't do that even if you wanted to, as you're pregnant with his child.) I think, as others here have suggested, you should look at your role in all of this and take responsibility for your actions. I am not saying that to be mean, I think it's a necessary step for you to be a healthy, happy person. Realize that you have made some mistakes here and that you have learned from them and won't repeat them.

 

If thinking about all of this stresses you out, don't do it now, because you have to worry about your babies' health and your health during your pregnancy first, of course. Aim on relaxing and feeling peaceful, not upsetting yourself. But perhaps after they're born you could really take some time to do some introspective thinking (or now... if it helps you understand and process things better, instead of stressing you out). Whatever you do, I think you should realize that MM is toxic to your life and cut all ties with him. All he does is give you drama and heartache.

 

 

Your the Bomb!

This is insane, I so overlooked the fact that this lil triangle was totally not protecting themselves. As a W I know that many dont use protection, but shouldnt there be rules for the OW as to use condoms? pregnacies are the least to worry about. Chances are that this dude has slept with many OW behind his wife's back. STD's anyone!?

[MimiMe]

HOw do you know she doesn't already know and maybe that's why she pushed him down the stairs to begin with?

 

I'm not saying about you being pregnant, but maybe about her knowing about the affair.

 

Anyway, if you are hell bent on telling her, (not saying you are), but if you feel he wont and you want too, then arrange a face to face with her while you're belly's are both sticking out there, and tell her to her face you had an affair with her H and are having his child(ren).

 

How do you think that would go over? I don't know for sure if she sent him tumbling down some stairs or not, but If she did, that tells you what she can do. Personally, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near her if she found out. But, that is just me.

 

I cant. I am dying over here.... LOL!

Word! if his wife in any given case pushed him down the stairs, chances are she is postal and you wont run with better luck. Imagine- she "loves" him, and she will "hate" you.

Oh Lord. I am scared for you.

[nadiaj2727]

Oh so true. It is always easier to make the wife out to be the one who failed at her duties, but (while I do believe many affairs can be "blamed" on both partners) this MM chose to run from his issues rather than face them like a responsible adult.

 

I disagree with you for like the first time ever James. I think that the problems of a marriage or relationship can be blamed on both partners, 50/50. It takes two make or break a marriage. However, an affair is 100% the fault of the person who CHOSE to deal with the problems of the marriage by turning outside the marriage and having an affair. It takes ONE person to cheat.

 

Cheating is a personal character flaw in my opinion and is nothing to blame your spouse for. The cheater should look to himself when explaining why he thought he was entitled to cheat just because he was unhappy with his marriage... that is not a choice his spouse helped him do (obviously, as she is usually crushed no matter how bad off the marriage was). No matter what a faithful spouse isn't doing to make the marriage better, at least they didn't go out and make it way worse (and bring a third party into the matter too... to me that is the epitome of selfishness and two wrongs don't make a right or a justification).

[LucreziaBorgia]

I'm just wondering if anything will be left of MM when the sh*t hits the fan. Not only is he caught between W and OW, he is caught by a pregnant and hormonal W and a doubly pregnant and doubly hormonal OW. Both are going to be fighting for what is best for their children like mama bears. This guy has no idea what is in store for him. Being thrown down the stairs is butter compared to the emotional and financial ass reaming he has coming his way.

[JamesM]

I disagree with you for like the first time ever James. I think that the problems of a marriage or relationship can be blamed on both partners, 50/50. It takes two make or break a marriage. However, an affair is 100% the fault of the person who CHOSE to deal with the problems of the marriage by turning outside the marriage and having an affair. It takes ONE person to cheat.

 

 

I feel honored that you do disagree. I am far from perfect.

 

An example was used in another thread. IF a child is teasing your child, is the correct response a punch in the gut by the one being teased?

 

No. And he should be punished.

 

BUT...would we say that the child was provoked by the teasing bully?

 

Yes.

 

So it is in a marriage. Communication has broken down if one needs sex and the other needs affection. So, one withholds affection and the other withholds sex. Both are at fault.

 

BUT....we DO agree in that cheating is the wrong response. And it cannot be justified as a "forced" response to no sex. However, it is also known that many affairs are actually cries for help when marriages are in grave trouble.

 

I do not think cheating is a personality flaw. I do think it is the cowardly response to a problem. It is a choice. It is the responsibility of the one who chose the affair, but like the bully, one could also say that without the marital problem, the affair would never have happened.

[Jess-Belle]

It is the responsibility of the one who chose the affair, but like the bully, one could also say that without the marital problem, the affair would never have happened.

 

Hi James This kind of sounds like an affair justification... I do not know if this is your intent... is it?

 

When I found out about what my bf did, I kicked and punched the crap out of him and bloodied his nose. I could say I was provoked by the fact that he had an A, but I find my behavior so abhorrent and unacceptable that I wouldn't even dare say that.

 

What do you think? Anyone?

[JamesM]

Hi James This kind of sounds like an affair justification... I do not know if this is your intent... is it?

 

 

No, it is not a justification, but it does say that affairs do not happen in a vacuum. Most are the result of a poor marriage.

 

Affairs are also a choice that shows a lack of commitment and love. They are completely wrong, and I do not condone them in the slightest. However, if we treat an affair as THE reason for the marriage's failure, we ignore all of the factors that led up to the decision to choose an affair.

 

Affairs are symptoms as much as they are causes.

[Jess-Belle]

No, it is not a justification, but it does say that affairs do not happen in a vacuum. Most are the result of a poor marriage.

 

Affairs are also a choice that shows a lack of commitment and love. They are completely wrong, and I do not condone them in the slightest. However, if we treat an affair as THE reason for the marriage's failure, we ignore all of the factors that led up to the decision to choose an affair.

 

Affairs are symptoms as much as they are causes.

 

Yes, I do see what you are saying. I don't think you're condoning affairs. I will present my point of view though for your analysis:

 

It seems, in my opinion, that sometimes people go "soft" on affairs. Sort of like sympathize with them, analyzing what led up to them etc. To me, this is walking on a fine line between understanding and rationalization.

 

With affairs people seem more likely to blur the lines of personal responsibility.

 

For example, to take the scenarios I've given before.

One time, when I was going through a real bad time with an ex, I got into drugs. Which as a result I would up with a total psychological addiction to for several miserable months. Drugs were my way of escaping the relationship problems, just like an affair. But with the drugs, I think people would be far more likely to see it for what it was: my choice. My choice got me into a load of problems. And really, the relationship problems were irrelevant to that. What do y'all think?

 

Or like I said a post ago, how I reacted to finding out about the A. I went into a blind rage. We could examine all day what led up to that, but I think most people would cut straight to the chase and say I was completely out of control, who gives a crap about what happened for me to react that way.

 

My point is, I feel that there are certain things that are so socially unacceptable that personal responsibility is almost always put squarely on the person in question. And rightfully so.

 

For whatever reason though, affairs, it seems, aren't one of them.

 

Thoughts?

[underpants]

My point is, I feel that there are certain things that are so socially unacceptable that personal responsibility is almost always put squarely on the person in question. And rightfully so.

 

For whatever reason though, affairs, it seems, aren't one of them.

 

Thoughts?

 

Some do. Some don't. For whatever reasons, motivations and perspectives. There are labels to go around on all sides.

 

Some folks get away with things (probably because they don't loose for so long)...until they do get a taste of what they have done to others. Then some do wake up and have a genuinely different perspective that changes their core. Some never do. Still others' are never aware past their own momentary goals.

 

All you can do is live your life by your own personal code. Unfortunately, this can mean cutting some people out.

[Gwyneth]

To those of you whom actually answered the questions I posted, thank you very much I found them all to be very helpful (your answers that is), and suggestive. I also thought it was pretty cool to see the differences of opinion on the matter. I look forward to seeing more answers

[blair08]

To those of you whom actually answered the questions I posted, thank you very much I found them all to be very helpful (your answers that is), and suggestive. I also thought it was pretty cool to see the differences of opinion on the matter. I look forward to seeing more answers

 

 

HI, Gwen, don't forget to answer questions others had for you too.

[Gwyneth]

I don't feel it's necessary as they're pretty much Off Topic, and it will just cause an ongoing thread of arguments.

[Impudent Oyster]

What makes you think you have any influence at all over your MM? Or that you have the slightest idea what he is or isn't telling his wife?

[Gwyneth]

What makes you think you have any influence at all over your MM? Or that you have the slightest idea what he is or isn't telling his wife?

 

Regarding? If you mean about our affair, I think she'd probably call me--most likely. She already has before.

 

I was asking those questions as general affair questions, not specifically to me, but also for me as well. I'm always interested in seeing differences of opinions, and boy did I get that

[trifecta]

Gwyn, apologies but I am going to post to James.

 

I am reading your post James and if I used that way of thought I would also get the following .

 

A 16 yr old girl is raped-the rapists response-she was dressed for it!-share the blame? between the victim and the perp?

 

A 30 yr old mother held up at the bank with a trainee teller-gets cross-realises she is late for school to pick the kids up-speeds and runs a red light-killing 2.3 kids in the back of another car. Again the trainee should take blame for her part in the death of 2.3 kids?

 

Wifey cops a broken jaw-she didnt hang the towels up just right. Hell wifey knew to hang the towels up-ontop of the broken jaw, do we publicly whip her too?

 

A YP returns a positive drug test and breaches a community order-well it was his 18th. Well his MUM- fancy picking that day to give birth 18 yrs ago-bad, bad mother-she must take blame for at least half od this.

 

We are all responsible for our own behaviour-no matter the circumstance.

 

Now if I had said-go forth and shag a lot-Sir shag a lot. That would be a completely different story. But I did not.

 

I take no responsibilty for someone elses actions.

 

TriMax.

[Cagney]

Gwyn, apologies but I am going to post to James.

 

A 16 yr old girl is raped-the rapists response-she was dressed for it!-share the blame? between the victim and the perp?

 

A 30 yr old mother held up at the bank with a trainee teller-gets cross-realises she is late for school to pick the kids up-speeds and runs a red light-killing 2.3 kids in the back of another car. Again the trainee should take blame for her part in the death of 2.3 kids?

 

Wifey cops a broken jaw-she didnt hang the towels up just right. Hell wifey knew to hang the towels up-ontop of the broken jaw, do we publicly whip her too?

 

I take no responsibilty for someone elses actions.

 

TriMax.

 

These are such lame comparisons!

 

If a man neglected his wife, emotionally and or sexually, it's MORE possible that she'll stray than if her husband cared for her needs. Goes for women too.

 

There is a consequence to breaking those vows too, I'm talking about the vows to love and cherish.

 

If you neglected you're spouse, then you can refuse to accept any responsibility, all you like. But if you neglect you spouse then you've already ducked out on SOME responsibility.

 

Does it REALLY have to be all blame or none? There IS a share.

 

Like Sting sings, "If you don't love her then your best friend will!"

Edited March 12, 2008 by Cagney

[trifecta]

Cagney-I take my share of responsibility in the state of our marriage leading up to and during his affair.

 

I do not take any responsibility for him having an affair. He owns that 100%-

 

I was unhappy in marriage also during this time. He chose to have an affair-he was offered his ticket- before the affair was discovered-he chose not to take that.

 

TriMax

[Gwyneth]

BTW, I did ask him what happened. Supposidly his wife salted the steps outside their apartment and when he went outside to go to work, he slipped on ice and hurt himself pretty bad. That is how the wife comes into this story. He hit his head and suffered some internal injuries. It was about 8 steps I think he said. He has some scrapes and bruises on his face (kinda nasty ) but is doing well enough that he can work again. He didn't break his legs or arms (too bad ...j/k), but did some damage to his head (if that was even possible to do more damage...j/k). Anyway, that was what happened. He wasn't allowed visitors because of the head damage he suffered. He was out of work over a month and should still stay home but he needed to get away from the house and go to work.

 

There are more details but I think this is enough.

 

So that's that.

[underpants]

BTW, I did ask him what happened. Supposidly his wife salted the steps outside their apartment and when he went outside to go to work, he slipped on ice and hurt himself pretty bad. That is how the wife comes into this story. He hit his head and suffered some internal injuries. It was about 8 steps I think he said. He has some scrapes and bruises on his face (kinda nasty ) but is doing well enough that he can work again. He didn't break his legs or arms (too bad ...j/k), but did some damage to his head (if that was even possible to do more damage...j/k). Anyway, that was what happened. He wasn't allowed visitors because of the head damage he suffered. He was out of work over a month and should still stay home but he needed to get away from the house and go to work.

 

There are more details but I think this is enough.

 

So that's that.

 

Well,

 

If his wife salted the steps then that would have roughened the ice and made for less slippage.

 

I think that is more of an accident (or karma).

 

[JamesM]

Gwyn, apologies but I am going to post to James.

 

I am reading your post James and if I used that way of thought I would also get the following .

 

A 16 yr old girl is raped-the rapists response-she was dressed for it!-share the blame? between the victim and the perp?

 

A 30 yr old mother held up at the bank with a trainee teller-gets cross-realises she is late for school to pick the kids up-speeds and runs a red light-killing 2.3 kids in the back of another car. Again the trainee should take blame for her part in the death of 2.3 kids?

 

Wifey cops a broken jaw-she didnt hang the towels up just right. Hell wifey knew to hang the towels up-ontop of the broken jaw, do we publicly whip her too?

 

A YP returns a positive drug test and breaches a community order-well it was his 18th. Well his MUM- fancy picking that day to give birth 18 yrs ago-bad, bad mother-she must take blame for at least half od this.

 

We are all responsible for our own behaviour-no matter the circumstance.

 

Now if I had said-go forth and shag a lot-Sir shag a lot. That would be a completely different story. But I did not.

 

I take no responsibilty for someone elses actions.

 

TriMax.

 

In none of those examples did anyone make a commitment to be faithful and loving to the other....except the abused wife. And to follow my example, if she killed her husband, would we say that he had no blame for his death? Would her actions be viewed as simply her choice with no responsibility on his part?

 

Yet one can argue that in every case, one person's action does lead to a "reaction." While we are only responsible for our own choices and actions, it is important to note that our choices and actions DO effect those around us.

 

In marriage, we have commitments made.

[Gwyneth]

Well,

 

If his wife salted the steps then that would have roughened the ice and made for less slippage.

 

I think that is more of an accident (or karma).

 

 

It takes a while for ice to melt, especially if it's thick. It seemed that his wife had just salted the stairs while he was preparing to leave for work.

[noforgiveness]

It takes a while for ice to melt, especially if it's thick. It seemed that his wife had just salted the stairs while he was preparing to leave for work.

 

:laugh::laugh:That horrible awful woman even gets up before her husband leaves for work and puts rocksalt down on the front steps? OMGoodness she sounds so lazy and uncaring.

Edited March 12, 2008 by noforgiveness

[mclovin]

I'm glad to hear you found a nice single guy who treats you well. Congrats!

 

I know you mentioned you wanted Child Support, which you should get. It's not easy financially to be a single mom no matter how high your salary, and the father should pay a percentage to help BOTH your child grow healthy and live a decent life. Don't ever feel guilty for expecting CS either. Takes two to tango and your situation was similar to mine so he was responsible for failing to follow through proper use of BC.

 

In regards to your question, it's unlikely the MM intends to tell his wife at this point and time. However, once he finds out you're pregnant and you decided to keep, he's going to have to tell her anyway.

 

Should he decide not to tell, then he may be emotionally disturbed. You can't "hide" a child. It's a human being that he made and will one day be an adult just like him.

 

It's going to come out one way or another. When his W sees his paycheck is 40-60% less/influx of money is greatly decreased, she will find out he's paying CS.

 

He is in a real life-awakening situation, but he made his bed now he's gotta lye in it.

 

One other thing I want to address to you-and I'm not trying to scare you, but please just hear me out on this:

 

Do you think the pressure of all this will make him loose his mind, do you? The reason I ask is because there are some men out there who have harmed or even killed their wife/OM because of situations like this. You should definetley tell him you're pregnant, but just use general precautions. Outside of the A, did anything about him make you feel fearful, unsafe, unsure, etc? What is his character like and did he ever tell you of any current circumstances that he found overwhelming or angering? I know people think this stuff only happens in movies like Matchpoint, or they think of the Laci Peterson case, but it can happen. Just keep your wits about you-that's all.

[mclovin]

Oh, and also be weary of the "his abusive wife" stuff. A lot of MM do their best to make their W look like a monster. It could actually be the other way around-and this happened to a friend of mine when she had an A with a MM two years ago.