Ariadne Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 So you're saying the gal overpowered the guy and raped him and got herself pregnant? Or she gave him a hand job and surreptitiously kept the semen and impregnated herself? He had no say? None at all? Wow! Sounds like a guy would have grounds to press charges in that case. No, he has no saying. The girl gets to keep her bundles of joy, and the guy gets the bill for 18 years. Whether he wants it or not, for a 10 minute fk. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 In this case the guy already had a family. I don't see why G's decisions would have to disturb that which was there on the first place and she knew it. Then he shouldn't have cheated on his wife and take a chance of getting another woman, GWYN, pregnant. That's the bottomline. So, now he his consquence is quite high - He has to take responsibilty, pay up or completely walk away. Link to post Share on other sites
MimiMe Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 The OW/OM is never responsible for making a person cheat but I do feel they are responsible for whatever drama they find themselves in. Congrats on the pregnancy and I do hope that he steps up to the plate and is a father to these children because they deserve to have both parents that care about them. But the OW/OM becomes equally reponsible for the affair to go on- at least with you. (because chances are that he/she can find someone else to play with).If you dont "mind" and get yourself involved in the myst... then you are just as accountable as the MM/MW. It's pretty immature and kind of a scape goat, when you willingly get yourself involved in these kind of relationships then when it hits the fan... the OW/OM want to say its not their fault or business and that they were not the one that cheated of the BS. Link to post Share on other sites
Ariadne Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 She said that's what's wrong with the American legal system and that in her view a single mother should not be entitled to child support from a father who doesn't want the baby. Exactly... Link to post Share on other sites
Dominique Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Actually, I think the law is pretty messed up with that too. The woman gets to choose, the guy has no saying, and he gets half of the responsibility. If he has half of the responsibility to pay, then he should be able to decide whether or not to have a baby. Women may try and get pregnant, not telling him, or the condom may break etc. In this case the guy already had a family. I don't see why G's decisions would have to disturb that which was there on the first place and she knew it. This is all so....disgusting on some level. Not just the sterility of the response but society itself....The more modern we become the more barbaric everything seems.... I've said before: to avoid all of this kind of mess, only share yourself with someone whom you love and respect and whose child you'd want to have in the first place should something "go wrong". And in a society where men and women respect each other, all this horrid moral-ethical-legal running in circles could be avoided. And if you have "needs"....Go take a jog! Link to post Share on other sites
nadiaj2727 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Actually, I think the law is pretty messed up with that too. The woman gets to choose, the guy has no saying, and he gets half of the responsibility. The guy does have a say in whether or not to create a child: he can and should wear a condom (or not have sex at all dearie). This is where your logic is faulty because you refuse to accept the fact that a man DOES have a say in whether or not to create a child. SEX between a woman AND a man creates a child. There is nothing a woman can do to create a child without a man's permission (his "say"). Women may try and get pregnant, not telling him, or the condom may break etc. Again, women can't "try and get pregnant" without a man's permission. Condoms are quite reliable when properly worn. On the off chance that a condom slips off, well, that is the risk that BOTH the man and the woman took by having sex in the first place. The man shouldn't be sleeping with the woman if he doesn't like those odds and doesn't want to get her pregnant. The law is not messed up, no offense but your reasoning is messed up because you act like a man has no part in creating a child. You absolve him of any responsibility for that and then later say he shouldn't have to be responsible. The big step you are missing is that penis in the vagina might equal a baby. If the man doesn't want a baby and all the responsibilities that come with it, he'd best wrap it up or never take it out -- then he won't have to worry about child support laws, which again, are there for equality between men and woman AND the best interest of children -- two concepts that your argument seems to completely disregard. Link to post Share on other sites
nadiaj2727 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 No, he has no saying. The girl gets to keep her bundles of joy, and the guy gets the bill for 18 years. Whether he wants it or not, for a 10 minute fk. If he doesn't want a baby he'd best avoid that 10 minute fk or be very careful to prevent a baby from happening (still knowing that there's a very small chance that one might and that he will be responsbile for it). Again, it's called personal responsibility, which you seem to think only a woman should have. Well good for you then and it's obvious yours is a minority opinion that no one can get you to see the silliness in. If you want to think that women should have all the personal responsibiilty for an action that takes two people to create, and the man should have 0% personal responsibility, then that's your sad opinioin to have, and I am done trying to get you to see how sexist and ludicrous of an idea it is. Luckily most of the rest of us live --- physically and mentally -- in 2008 America (or other civilized countries), not somewhere with these stoneage beliefs. Link to post Share on other sites
Ariadne Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 you act like a man has no part in creating a child. You absolve him of any responsibility for that and then later say he shouldn't have to be responsible. He should be responsible... if he wants to be. It should be his choice. If the woman wants to keep the baby, go ahead, but don't force people that don't want a part of it into it. Link to post Share on other sites
MimiMe Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Well, that's something he should have thought about before having sex outside of this marriage. He'll probably be paying through the nose - It's his own fault in that respect. Legally speaking I doubt MM's wife will have to go to work to pay for her G's kid(s). If anything, she'll be working to support HER own two children, NOT Gwyn's. Which correlates... if G and MM didn't do the "wild thang" then W wouldn't have to work to support her own kids. (then again, we dont know their real situation. We dont know if the wife already works and what she really brings into the marriage -in the economical aspect). Bottom line is, there is no way this dude is going to get away with not supporting those kids - unless G doesn't take him for the ride. If he doesn't support them willingly- he will have to legally and the only person that can take it or leave it is G. Lord knows... she can meet a very very wealthy dude and never need a dime from MM (hey, anything can happen). I dont know where you live Gwyn and dont know what you do for a living... but at least here in NYC, to be a single parent AND of twins... you better make six figures!!! AND it'll be in his best interest to support these babies from the get... or else IRS will chanish his JOINT returns years down the line (and THAT will put his W in the picture of supporting these babies. lol). Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 He should be responsible... if he wants to be. It should be his choice. If the woman wants to keep the baby, go ahead, but don't force people that don't want a part of it into it. And, what happens 2 years later or 5 years or even 10 years later when the guy realizes, OMG I have a child out there, I'm a daddy! Now I want to be part of my son/daughters life. IS it OK for him to all of a sudden find his child and be involved? Link to post Share on other sites
SpanksTheMonkey Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 No, she can have an abortion. It's a ten minute procedure. If she wants to keep the baby and he doesn't want the responsibility, she should support the baby herself. For some people abortion isn't even a choice and I'm not talking about just religious people. Sure the guy has a choice its that few minutes before when he decides to put his penis in the womens vagina with out any protection after that its choice made! I've seen people question wither or not gwen knew the condom had come off what about him? I'm sure he knew exactly when and if the condom came off. You play you take the risk of pregnancy on BOTH sides when its 2 consenting adults. The only ones I truly feel for is the MMs family they are the only victims in a situation like this. Them and the babies who didn't ask to be brought into the world in this fashion no offense gwen I'm sure you will make a great mom. In the end you play you pay in my world just because theres a safety net of abortion. Doesn't mean it should be used after other bad choices have already been made just to bail ones ass out. That mind set is just not taking responsibility for ones own actions! Link to post Share on other sites
Ariadne Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 And, what happens 2 years later or 5 years or even 10 years later when the guy realizes, OMG I have a child out there, I'm a daddy! Now I want to be part of my son/daughters life. IS it OK for him to all of a sudden find his child and be involved? Yes, I'd say it's perfectly ok. Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Then he shouldn't have cheated on his wife and take a chance of getting another woman, GWYN, pregnant. But sadly he did. I don't see why the OP's CHOICE (which of course she is free to exercise) has to destroy the lives of innocent people. It's bad enough that the child (-ren) born from this liason will be without a real father, why should the others suffer as well? Th OP knew the man was married. She should have made wiser decisions. I think the burden of responsibilty falls on her shoulders since she may have conceived the baby with the MM (obviously) but the decision to keep it is single-handedly hers. Link to post Share on other sites
Lookingforward Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 That's what really sucks about these situations...his W who did nothing to cause this baby to be born will be paying for it along with her WS...any money going to support won't be going into the M to support HER kid/s Link to post Share on other sites
nadiaj2727 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 For some people abortion isn't even a choice and I'm not talking about just religious people. Sure the guy has a choice its that few minutes before when he decides to put his penis in the womens vagina with out any protection after that its choice made! I've seen people question wither or not gwen knew the condom had come off what about him? I'm sure he knew exactly when and if the condom came off. You play you take the risk of pregnancy on BOTH sides when its 2 consenting adults. The only ones I truly feel for is the MMs family they are the only victims in a situation like this. Them and the babies who didn't ask to be brought into the world in this fashion no offense gwen I'm sure you will make a great mom. In the end you play you pay in my world just because theres a safety net of abortion. Doesn't mean it should be used after other bad choices have already been made just to bail ones ass out. That mind set is just not taking responsibility for ones own actions! Exactly. Thanks for the well-reasoned post. It's good to see that MOST people believe in personal responsibility regardless of gender. Link to post Share on other sites
MimiMe Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I did my part in the responsibility of making sure he had a condom on when we began to have sex. Sometimes these things break or come off out of our control. I'm sorry Gwyn but how old are you again? there are about a dozen other options. Too late now... but this could sound narrow minded to say that you did your part in using a condom- just IMO. Link to post Share on other sites
SpanksTheMonkey Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 But sadly he did. I don't see why the OP's CHOICE (which of course she is free to exercise) has to destroy the lives of innocent people. Th OP knew the man was married. She should have made wiser decisions. .His family's lives were destroyed with out them even knowing the minute he decided to have an affair no? Think about it there home/life/marriage/love is a lie at this point and they just don't know it yet how sad. I agree she should have been carefuller but so should he again responsibility. If you ask me the wife should at some point maybe after the birth of her baby's so as not to upset her to to much now. Be told of the hole affair so she can decide wither or not she wants to move on in her and her kids life! Link to post Share on other sites
Dominique Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 He should be responsible... if he wants to be. It should be his choice. If the woman wants to keep the baby, go ahead, but don't force people that don't want a part of it into it. No. This is what is wrong in your thinking. Responsibility is not about "wanting" it or not. I don't "want" certain responsibilities I have in my life, but I take them on because not to do so will negatively affect my life and the lives of others. Reponsibility is assumed. You assume responsibility when you affect other people's lives with your actions. It is called being a grown-up. Link to post Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 This isn't an 'oopsie' pregnancy. This is not the same as a man who is vehement about not getting a girl pregnant and tries to take precautions to make sure she doesn't. Gwyn said that MM had alluded to getting her pregnant, and she thinks he deliberately slipped off the condom - now did he really mean it or not? Moot point - if he tampered with the birth control method then he should help support any children that come from that. I agree with Ariadne, but only in a case where the man did take precautions and the woman either lied about birth control (I've seen that on this board where one woman came right out and said she intended to trap her man this way), or literally stole his sperm from a spent condom and impregnated herself with it (its happened before). A man should not have to pay child support under those circumstances. Link to post Share on other sites
SpanksTheMonkey Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I'm sorry I had to LOL when I just saw this He should be responsible... if he wants to be. I don't want to pay my bills this month so maybe I should just let them shut my power off yea who gives a crap if it will hurt others living in the house. Who by the way also contribute to the home but no I just don't want that responsibility so guys looks like its going to be a dam cold winter gee I wanna live on his planet lol... Link to post Share on other sites
Ariadne Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 That's what really sucks about these situations...his W who did nothing to cause this baby to be born will be paying for it along with her WS...any money going to support won't be going into the M to support HER kid/s Yes. And the W should not be affected by this. G knew the guy had a family, and I don't see she has any right to impose a financial responsibility on the guy that she knew was married in the first place, and had his own children to support. Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 WORD! He needs to be responsible for his actions, i.e., having sex with a woman. And the OP needs to be more responsible as regards bringing a MM's children into the world. Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I did my part in the responsibility of making sure he had a condom on when we began to have sex. Sometimes these things break or come off out of our control. I'm sorry Gwyn but how old are you again? there are about a dozen other options. Too late now... but this could sound narrow minded to say that you did your part in using a condom- just IMO. I kept thinking 'morning after pill! morning after pill!' But, as you say, Mimi - it's too late now, so I'm not sure I understand the point of all this re-hashing of woulda, coulda, shoulda in this thread. Perhaps it can serve as a cautionary tale...what a mess. Link to post Share on other sites
SpanksTheMonkey Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I agree with Ariadne, but only in a case where the man did take precautions and the woman either lied about birth control (I've seen that on this board where one woman came right out and said she intended to trap her man this way), or literally stole his sperm from a spent condom and impregnated herself with it (its happened before). A man should not have to pay child support under those circumstances. Same here I do agree on those terms only tho good point. Link to post Share on other sites
Ariadne Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 And again she refuses to address the issue of his "choice" to stick his thing in someone other than his wife. No, If she doesn't want to get pregnant, it's her responsibility to use birth control. She is a grown up woman and she knows she can get pregnant. You can't rely on someone else for that, take care of yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
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