It can work

[Owl]

I'd like to post my thoughts on your last post, Hope.

 

If I met my wife...TODAY...and I were married to someone else, we'd never be together.

 

Because I wouldn't have given a relationship the chance to form between us. If I'm with someone else, there's this "forsaking all others" clause in there somewhere that I feel obligated to uphold.

 

Realize I've been married 20 years. Do you really think that in 20 years I've NEVER met someone and been tempted to explore the "what ifs"? Hardly!

 

Every once in a while, you meet someone in the course of your life that the "what if" raises its head. Often, its possible that there could even be a base for some "mutual feelings" between you. But WHENEVER that happens, I am the one to turn and walk away. I can see that there's an attraction/whatever...and I've always REFUSED to begin to explore that possibility. If its a business acquaintance, I take steps to make sure that it remains that way. No one-on-one meetings, emails are always "cc'ed" to someone else...etc... If its someone I meet in the course of day to day life...I don't spend time with that person or doing that activity.

 

If more people 'walked away' when they first sensed that they were approaching 'crossing that line'...a lot fewer people would be hurt.

 

Bottom line...if I met my wife today...and I were already with someone else...I wouldn't have given myself the "opportunity" to follow my heart. She wouldn't have gotten close enough to me to have "heard" my heart in that respect.

[Hope4usyet]

Thanks for your post owl, you wise thing you. You are obviously in a much happier marriage than my partner was which is lovely to hear. I was not some temptress and he was no gigalo, some things happen for a reason and i believe this was one of them

[Owl]

By no means do I feel that you were a 'temptress', or he a 'gigelo'. You're people...and as people, you made the choices you made.

 

I have just never accepted the "just happens" theory of affairs. There is ALWAYS a choice...a 'cusp point' if you will...there was always a decision made that you knew "crossed the line".

 

I just thought I'd post my thoughts on the "if you met your spouse today" concept though. Its a question I've seen raised in the past, and something I've personally considered many times.

[Hope4usyet]

I appreciate what you are saying and value most opinions people have on these circumstances. One thing i do agree on is that we are all PEOPLE and as people we are all different which is what makes the trials and tribulations of life. Life may never be simple but we can try to make it happy

 

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming WOW ....what a trip!!

[SerenityX2]

I would just like to add Serenity, I have just read your first post and was very moved by what you said but i just have a few questions to ask. If you had met your current husband whilst still married to your first one would you have left him and followed your heart to be with your true love. I appreciate what you have said but i also feel for my partner what you feel for your new husband. Although the circumstances are very different between us the love we feel is the same. Surely that counts for something?

 

Hi Hope...

I'm glad that you saw my prev posts and can see where I'm coming from (not bitter in the least...most others that disagree just attack from that level) so thank you for the kind words.

 

I agree with Owl and his rationale...and yes, I've read his posts...he is wise and understands the "cloud" thing very well...and just how ppl can be misguided when under it.

 

I'd like to expand on it though b/c you did in fact hit something that my current H and I have discussed. I really hope that you can at least ponder what I'm about to say instead of just writing it off as crazy...b/c obviously our viewpoints are different.

 

When I was with my exH I did honor my vows, I too never let anyone or myself cross any lines although I was approached. (maybe rings do turn some on?!) However it a simplistic way if I would have "seen" my current H in passing I would have thought a momentary appreciation for his appearance, the way he carries himself et...but again I was married....so no I would not cross that line. Here I guess is the crazy thing...when I look back at my first M I "thought" I really loved him but it's nothing compared to what I have now. My current H will say the same thing...however both of us would have stayed in our respective M's because we did take vows and that is who we are (our moral values if you will) Now that may sound absolutely nuts to you and others that think geez if you're that unhappy just leave...I guess maybe both of us took that part "for better or worse" to really mean something...I mean I took vows in front of God and others and I think that's where people just take that a little too lightly (going in with the mindset that if it doesn't work just leave)

 

Now, both myself and my current H were cheated on by our spouses, my H's exW took off with another and left him and their then 10 y/o he however was the one to file for divorce imm as there was a point she "may" have been confused and wanted to come back, however my H was done as infidelty is a deal breaker, no q's for him.

 

I however have a slightly diff look at it sort of like Owl, I think a marriage "can" possibly be salvaged "if" it really was a one time mistake and the person is really remorseful and the 2 are able to then start over completely (b/c I don't think it's possible to rebuild over the damage...I think you'd have to really be willing to go though a lot of overhaul in the M and that would take 2 really special people).

 

My sit wasn't so cut and dry...my exH is a PI so to really get proof was kinda tricky (he could lie and say they were clients etc...) he'd also take the moral high road by saying I must have thought he was f*ing shallow if I think he's doing that, he's busy w/work blah blah. So, point being the "first" time I found out...I was crushed...I was ready to leave, all he had to do was admit there was this other person and I was done...to get the proof that time (after confirming phone records) all I did was ask him if he loved her (he was denying that there even was anyone) and he said "I'm not with her anymore"...that was it...I hung up (this was over the phone!) and I called my brother and told him to get me...(I was too upset to drive) that I was done...well long story short (ha) my exH raced home to find me packing and begged me to stay...tears and all...so I ended up staying for the sake of the M (and he was there "helping" me through the pain...flashes I would have of them together stuff like that)..

 

Fast forward a few mos and I'm pregnant and since he is a control freak...it wasn't the right time he felt he wouldn't be #1 and started to sulk a bit...he wanted me to have an abortion and I refused...he threw temper tantrums...he ended up moving into a diff bedroom and before ppl start jumping on the bandwagon "where was my respect then to get out?" I REPEATEDLY stated over and over if this isn't what he wants (me/baby) then tell me now and I'll get out, b/c I don't want to stay under the illusion that things are ok if they're not...I'd rather get the pain over with and move on rather than drag things on in a "maybe" state...he REPEATEDLY assured me that he was just needing time to adjust to the idea of fatherhood (thus the f*ing shallow comment) and things would be fine etc...

 

I did end up staying it was an extreme roller coaster, he was ok some days and down right nasty the next...now when my son was born, it was still a roller coaster, he still didn't move back into the master bedroom but assured me that it was just a matter of time of being ready yeah I know...how stupid could I be? Well, I did put a time line in place...I was giving him a year (new babies are a HUGE adjustment, they def change you and mostly for the better!) he was touch and go with it...I kept my eyes and ears open...by July (son born in Jan) I did find proof...that was it...I made my plans to get out, however it took another 5 mos to actually be able to move (he threatended in his mean moments that I'd get nothing I'd be lucky if I'd be able to rent something (I had a job but he controlled the finances) nobody would want me with a baby on and on...basically much verbal abuse but tempered with really nice moments too that I equate to building up with one hand and tearing down with the other..it's an awful mindf*ck that I wouldn't wish on anyone.

 

I left just shy of my son's 1st birthday much to my exH's shock...see even though he was playing around and telling the OW God knows what about me...he never thought I'd have the courage to leave!!!! He even told me later on that he thought we were just on a "break" and that things would work out eventually...meanwhile he used to say things to me like "in my mind (his) we're not married anymore"!!!! You've GOT to be kidding me!

 

Alright, maybe too much background info there, but I wanted you to see where I'm coming from...my point is even with all that...(just shy of having proof of more affairs..I'm saying if we just had to work through the one) I would have stayed...was I happy? No, not in the least compared to what I have now...but I thought I was b/c it was very dramatic, very passionate...I used to think the quality outweighted the quantity!

 

It took me 12 years of being on my own before I met my current H...it took by current H 7 years (his priority was raising his daughter so dating took a backseat) With some of the guys that I'd date in the 12 years (nothing was ever serious just a couple mos here and there) I was in no way ever going to settle...being on my own was MUCH better than ever being in another miserable i.e. drama filled situation. I dated guys with drama (b*chy exW's) and I wanted no part of that.

 

Was it lonely and tearfilled a lot of the time? Yes, absolutely and I used to think why can't I find a nice guy...but you know what? I absolutely would do it all over again to have met my current H...it's that aha moment that I get all the things I went through was to prepare me for this great love.

 

I guess I just can't believe that ppl who come here in A's that will even admit to some guilt or guilt in the beginning can completely obliterate that feeling...it has to come back at some point when the dust settles..it just does...it's how we humans are wired (even if no belief in God) it's called a conscience and it's how we really do know the right thing from the wrong even if we want to deny it.

 

What you're going through is the temptation...and it's a strong lure...I don't doubt it...but if you'd really just think of it as a really hard test that if you'd do the right thing that you know in your heart is right there is defintely something even better waiting for you...and it's even more joyous b/c you don't have even a shred of guilt, remorse the way the r'ship was born and you just finally "get it" ....Hope I really wish that for you.

 

I do really believe in the "reap what you sow" why? because I've seen it happen too many times...my exH for ex stayed with that OW for six years...it ended up dissolving...he bounced from girl to girl...bothering to have me meet them (he wanted my opinion when we reached an amicable stage for the sake of my son) but wouldn't dump the one till he was sure that he had something with the next...he's now remarried, b/c he wanted to "beat" me to the alter (didn't work but he tried) and he's now cheating again.

 

So even if you take my faith/morals out of the equation and say that I met my current H was married...and say it involved more of an interaction that I'd really start to fall for his personality, who he is etc...you know what? I can't deny there's a part of me that would have been CRUSHED to know that someone like that existed and yet b/c it wasn't the right time, situation, whatever it really wasn't meant to be...but I would have walked away and I know it would have been b/c there's something better down the road, b/c in a nutshell we are responsible for each other in a human dignity sense...to do unto others...to not put hurt on someone.

 

If you want to look at it that God will reward you...or if it's the universe thing or whatever...you really do find that you reap what you sow...my exH has all the money, cars, boat etc...and still is unhappy, my H and I don't have nearly as much...but have SO much more where it counts if that makes sense...and I really do wish EVERYONE to find that sort of love...so no, far from bitter...I'd just wish people would care more about others...it's the basis of human existance...regardless what you believe.

 

And as I've said...people exiting a r'ship cannot move on w/o figuring out who they are first...otherwise you are just getting a deep down inside broken person even if they deny it and you don't see it...there's no logical way to move from a r'ship (long term) to another healthy r'ship let alone a M...you have to seriously figure out who you are, what did or didn't make it work...what are you really looking for and how much of yourself can you now devote and give to that other person, and if you are divided you aren't ready...it is that simple...people that force a r'ship out of love or any other reason will most likely have it blow up in their face...you can't force things...and if the r'ship doesn't have an relaxing haven to it...if it's filled with even shards of drama...well that's "forcing" it's the selfish need that I must have this and not only have it...but have it NOW!!! It's not right...love in all it's complexity is patient...and yeah, I consult my head foremost as you mentioned..but when it's right, the heart is right there to, it's something that is so in sync that's it's hard to explain.

 

Hope, I really do hope you'll at least think, and consider what I've said...like I said...it's so hard to put into words (even thought I wrote damn book!) how great it can be...it seriously even blew my mind..and the wonderful thing is even though there's a great electricity/passion in our M...it's equally fused with an easiness...never drama...there should never be drama in a r'ship...and I guess I'm on a serious campaign to get that word out...but as I've read so many others like Nadia, Owl can speak so much better to the OW that I leave it to them...I come across as judgmental and I really don't mean to. GL Hope...I really mean that.

 

Peace.

[precious1357]

Let me start by saying i did not go out with the intention of having an affair and its not something im proud of, but i would not change a thing as im the happiest ive been. I met my partner whilst he was married and we had every intention of only being friends. After a couple of weeks things moved to the next level and although i knew it was wrong it still FELT right and over the following couple of weeks I knew that i loved him and that he loved me. I did not ask him to leave his wife, i just made him realise that doing the right thing by her and his daughter was not always the best thing and if he wanted to be completly happy he had to follow his heart. His heart led him to my door and i do not feel guilty or ashamed that he left his wife because that was his decision and his alone. Admittedly things have not been easy and his wife has taken it hard and tried to make life difficult for us but i do not blame her, i know she is bitter and still loves him, i cant blame her for that, but she cant blame me for loving him either. We have been togeather for a year now and i know he has no intention of going back to her, we are happy and it can work out. Dont give up hope

 

I needed that! My MM and I love each other so much and we are so happy together. I feel bad most of the time but I have never been happier with anyone ever and I'm over 50. Thanks for sharing.

[SerenityX2]

I needed that! My MM and I love each other so much and we are so happy together. I feel bad most of the time but I have never been happier with anyone ever and I'm over 50. Thanks for sharing.

 

Can you please explain this double standard? I cannot believe that you can be both "feeling bad" AND "happy" ...

 

I'm not high on my horse or other things you may think of me...I remember you from a prev post that I responded to..you met your MM in church of all things...this is why I particularily would be interested in how with the whole belief in the commandments etc etc...how on earth those two statments are not in direct conflict with each other? One cannot be both guilty and happy...it just defies common sense this is why you come across that you have your head in the sand and you only want to hear the happy things and have your hands over your eyes and ears with anything that contradicts that.

 

I really am not trying to be harsh even though it may come across as such...I'd just like you to really examine your conscience and try to start to acknowledge why it is that you do feel the guilt..there is a reason...you would be so much better off and "truly" happy if you'd come to terms with that. The more that you try to squash down that "bad" feeling and just focus on the happy...the more it's going to keep bubbling to the surface, it just will...life experience of myself and seeing others experiences have taught me that...it's how we are made.

 

GL I hope you really do see the light some day.

[MimiMe]

I completly agree with what you just said there and there are many women out there who will push there marital limits too the limit( if you know what I mean). I def know im not in for an easy ride and its going to be difficult, but life in general is difficult. I had to laugh at the comment someone made about me not beeing happy with myself, why do people seem to assume that? lol

 

First, I feel sorry for you and I hope that you can get to a better place where you do realize that you deserve more.

 

The reason people "assume" unhappiness is that it well, it's pretty clear that OW for the most part (Owoman comes to mind that defies that but there's nothing sim about her sitch and most other A's) do not have enough respect for themselves to say "Hey, I deserve better than someone that can only be 1/2 in a r'ship...even if it is for a short while" and walk away "before" the standard line that's bandied "oh well, it just happened before we knew it we fell in love and didn't mean for it to happen" That is a simple copout on not owning up to your part in the dissolution of their M and make no mistake, you are. The only way you wouldn't be part of it is if he divorced "before" pursuing the r'ship with you. But seriously nothing just "happens" people make conscious choices. However as it's been pointed out, rarely are people making sane choices in the cloud of an A but there are always choices, choices to engage, or choices to walk away. It's clear which one speaks of honor.

 

It's really disheartening to read that although you feel "bad" for the W you have no problem causing her hurt. And see, that's also a fundamental difference between women who refuse to engage in A's and women who don't...basic human respect, and having enough integrity to not want to hurt another human being. If for no other reason, perhaps you don't believe in M's or why M's exist etc...everyone should have basic human decency towards others it shouldn't matter if you know them.

 

The fact that you have this outward display of a lack of love for others, (ie W)also means you really deep down are not happy with yourself, regardless of what false bravado and words that you may say. That's why I do feel compassion for you...I wish you would see yourself out of this.

 

It's clear you have no idea yet just how rocky this road is going to get esp with a 5 y/o in the picture. It's quite possible if the W is being as vindictive as described the D will never warm up to you and fault you for the destruction of her parent's M...esp if it's as you say, no real reason that they are divorcing just one of those things that happens. I hope you really think about this at some point.

 

There is no need for a r'ship to have this much drama in it unless you are addicted to drama in which case those people are also not happy with themselves, they need that drama which is equated to a hot passion in their minds to feel alive.

 

The M you are with is not a good man of strong character, if he was he would have divorced, spent time alone figuring himself out (if he was indeed so unhappy in his M) THEN went back into the dating world...instead of using you as his scapegoat that supposedly now made him realize he was so unhappy.

 

Prepare yourself that you may very well be in the W's position some day, if he can do it with you, he can do it to you...I'm sure you can roll your eyes at that, but there's a reason that it's said....it's true most of the time and unfortunately your story/love affair sounds no different than countless others that came to a crashing end.

 

However that's also a paramount difference between the women who will and women who won't. The women who won't full well realize that a guy like that can always have the potential of doing it to you some day, and therefore have enough self esteem (i.e. happy with themselves) of not going down that road. Women who engage in an A don't feel enough self worth, and therefore let the man dictate how their emotions will be run on any given day and try to convince themselves and others it's all in the name of love.

 

I wish I could really convey the even though people may be experiencing hurt and pain now of letting go of something/someone they really thought they loved...it wasn't a real love at all, it just came in that guise and swept them away, but that's exactly why it may feel so euphoric, in the right time the right love will come and it can honestly be so much better than anyone ever dreamed possible.

 

Again I say this b/c it's clear you have much drama (i.e. life is hard comment) now and more to come...it's really sad you think it's "worth" it.

 

GL to you...btw I really wish you'd go and read Nadia's posts, you'd learn a lot from her..she's a very wise woman that saw the light and is a true inspiration for OW...kudos to her for being on this board.

 

 

:love::love: Brilliant!

[MimiMe]

Serenity:

 

I want to be just like you when I grow up.

 

And OWL... I admire your strenght and morals. Your wife is a lucky gal!

[GreenEyedLady]

In 15 years, ask GEL if money, properity and other marital items don't count if her and her MM ever break up.

 

I guess you don't remember my story...

 

I gave up more than I should have in my D and it wasn't my fault, but I am the one who left...

 

But I didn't CARE...I would've paid any amount of money to be rid of my XH...ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY...

 

Possesions and property can be replaced...Sanity, not so easy...

 

I make my own money and have taken care of myself and my children...I don't NEED a man to do that...

 

And don't worry about my honey and me...We'll be just fine...

[GreenEyedLady]

Money doesn't buy you love... but I guess it will varied from person to person. In my situation...

I worked and contributed to the same and even sometimes more than my stbxH did... so I AM entitled to keep EVERYTHING we BOTH built for our KIDS. KIDS- you know... those that need college funds, roof over their heads, life/health insurance, etc...

I have no problem with him running off with OW, but go and start from scrath or 0, like you started it with me.

 

Greeneye... are you married?

 

I guess if you were the one leaving everything behind for the cause of "Love", perhaps you will... but if you are at the other side of the spectrum- highly doubt you'll be giving anything up.

 

I'm divorced, see the above post (reoky to WWIU)...I left for my own sanity...

 

It's too bad that many states don't prescribe to your formula for D...Or then maybe that is a good thing...

 

The fact is, you're not entitled to anything...and maybe if you had realized that while you were married, you wouldn't be getting divorced...

 

GEL

[Mino]

I'd like to post my thoughts on your last post, Hope.

 

If I met my wife...TODAY...and I were married to someone else, we'd never be together.

 

Because I wouldn't have given a relationship the chance to form between us. If I'm with someone else, there's this "forsaking all others" clause in there somewhere that I feel obligated to uphold.

 

Realize I've been married 20 years. Do you really think that in 20 years I've NEVER met someone and been tempted to explore the "what ifs"? Hardly!

 

Every once in a while, you meet someone in the course of your life that the "what if" raises its head. Often, its possible that there could even be a base for some "mutual feelings" between you. But WHENEVER that happens, I am the one to turn and walk away. I can see that there's an attraction/whatever...and I've always REFUSED to begin to explore that possibility. If its a business acquaintance, I take steps to make sure that it remains that way. No one-on-one meetings, emails are always "cc'ed" to someone else...etc... If its someone I meet in the course of day to day life...I don't spend time with that person or doing that activity.

 

If more people 'walked away' when they first sensed that they were approaching 'crossing that line'...a lot fewer people would be hurt.

 

Bottom line...if I met my wife today...and I were already with someone else...I wouldn't have given myself the "opportunity" to follow my heart. She wouldn't have gotten close enough to me to have "heard" my heart in that respect.

That was a very nice and great post Owl:)

[Lookingforward]

I'd like to post my thoughts on your last post, Hope.

 

If I met my wife...TODAY...and I were married to someone else, we'd never be together.

 

Because I wouldn't have given a relationship the chance to form between us. If I'm with someone else, there's this "forsaking all others" clause in there somewhere that I feel obligated to uphold.

 

Realize I've been married 20 years. Do you really think that in 20 years I've NEVER met someone and been tempted to explore the "what ifs"? Hardly!

 

Every once in a while, you meet someone in the course of your life that the "what if" raises its head. Often, its possible that there could even be a base for some "mutual feelings" between you. But WHENEVER that happens, I am the one to turn and walk away. I can see that there's an attraction/whatever...and I've always REFUSED to begin to explore that possibility. If its a business acquaintance, I take steps to make sure that it remains that way. No one-on-one meetings, emails are always "cc'ed" to someone else...etc... If its someone I meet in the course of day to day life...I don't spend time with that person or doing that activity.

 

If more people 'walked away' when they first sensed that they were approaching 'crossing that line'...a lot fewer people would be hurt.

 

Bottom line...if I met my wife today...and I were already with someone else...I wouldn't have given myself the "opportunity" to follow my heart. She wouldn't have gotten close enough to me to have "heard" my heart in that respect.

 

Yes, if you're committed you're allowed to look over the menu, but you NEVER order

[OpenBook]

Was it lonely and tearfilled a lot of the time? Yes, absolutely and I used to think why can't I find a nice guy...but you know what? I absolutely would do it all over again to have met my current H...it's that aha moment that I get all the things I went through was to prepare me for this great love...

 

What you're going through is the temptation...and it's a strong lure...I don't doubt it...but if you'd really just think of it as a really hard test that if you'd do the right thing that you know in your heart is right there is defintely something even better waiting for you...and it's even more joyous b/c you don't have even a shred of guilt, remorse the way the r'ship was born and you just finally "get it" ....Hope I really wish that for you.

 

I can't deny there's a part of me that would have been CRUSHED to know that someone like that existed and yet b/c it wasn't the right time, situation, whatever it really wasn't meant to be...but I would have walked away and I know it would have been b/c there's something better down the road, b/c in a nutshell we are responsible for each other in a human dignity sense...to do unto others...to not put hurt on someone.

 

If you want to look at it that God will reward you...or if it's the universe thing or whatever...you really do find that you reap what you sow...my exH has all the money, cars, boat etc...and still is unhappy, my H and I don't have nearly as much...but have SO much more where it counts if that makes sense...and I really do wish EVERYONE to find that sort of love...so no, far from bitter...I'd just wish people would care more about others...it's the basis of human existance...regardless what you believe.

 

Serenity I am glad it worked out for you. But this is YOUR experience -- it doesn't always work out like that for everyone. Doing the right thing does NOT guarantee that there's something better waiting for you down the road. If you (the general "you") do the right thing in the hopes (and expectations!) that you'll eventually be rewarded for it, it can be crushing when you never experience the reward.

[Lyssa]

And don't worry about my honey and me...We'll be just fine...

 

Hey GEL, how are you doing?

 

GEL, why is that Serenity wished you'd read Nadia's post? Are you not happy or something? I'm asking this cause I'm a bit confused...

[OpenBook]

However that's also a paramount difference between the women who will and women who won't. The women who won't full well realize that a guy like that can always have the potential of doing it to you some day, and therefore have enough self esteem (i.e. happy with themselves) of not going down that road. Women who engage in an A don't feel enough self worth, and therefore let the man dictate how their emotions will be run on any given day and try to convince themselves and others it's all in the name of love.

 

Wow, that's quite a generalization!

 

While we're psychoanalyzing OW's as a group, why don't we take a look at CH's as well? Why do they cheat (as a group)? If you say it's because of lack of character, I hope you realize that you are condemning over half of all men who are married. That's an awful lot of men.

 

My point is, I think it's way more complicated than self-esteem and personal character.

[silktricks]

If you (the general "you") do the right thing in the hopes (and expectations!) that you'll eventually be rewarded for it, it can be crushing when you never experience the reward.

 

Maybe you (the general "you") are expecting a specific reward, or have too tight a timeline on the expectation of receiving it - or maybe even you're not seeing the reward being provided because your expectation is for something else ....

[SofiaLo]

First, I feel sorry for you and I hope that you can get to a better place where you do realize that you deserve more.

 

The reason people "assume" unhappiness is that it well, it's pretty clear that OW for the most part (Owoman comes to mind that defies that but there's nothing sim about her sitch and most other A's) do not have enough respect for themselves to say "Hey, I deserve better than someone that can only be 1/2 in a r'ship...even if it is for a short while" and walk away "before" the standard line that's bandied "oh well, it just happened before we knew it we fell in love and didn't mean for it to happen" That is a simple copout on not owning up to your part in the dissolution of their M and make no mistake, you are. The only way you wouldn't be part of it is if he divorced "before" pursuing the r'ship with you. But seriously nothing just "happens" people make conscious choices. However as it's been pointed out, rarely are people making sane choices in the cloud of an A but there are always choices, choices to engage, or choices to walk away. It's clear which one speaks of honor.

 

It's really disheartening to read that although you feel "bad" for the W you have no problem causing her hurt. And see, that's also a fundamental difference between women who refuse to engage in A's and women who don't...basic human respect, and having enough integrity to not want to hurt another human being. If for no other reason, perhaps you don't believe in M's or why M's exist etc...everyone should have basic human decency towards others it shouldn't matter if you know them.

 

The fact that you have this outward display of a lack of love for others, (ie W)also means you really deep down are not happy with yourself, regardless of what false bravado and words that you may say. That's why I do feel compassion for you...I wish you would see yourself out of this.

 

It's clear you have no idea yet just how rocky this road is going to get esp with a 5 y/o in the picture. It's quite possible if the W is being as vindictive as described the D will never warm up to you and fault you for the destruction of her parent's M...esp if it's as you say, no real reason that they are divorcing just one of those things that happens. I hope you really think about this at some point.

 

There is no need for a r'ship to have this much drama in it unless you are addicted to drama in which case those people are also not happy with themselves, they need that drama which is equated to a hot passion in their minds to feel alive.

 

The M you are with is not a good man of strong character, if he was he would have divorced, spent time alone figuring himself out (if he was indeed so unhappy in his M) THEN went back into the dating world...instead of using you as his scapegoat that supposedly now made him realize he was so unhappy.

 

Prepare yourself that you may very well be in the W's position some day, if he can do it with you, he can do it to you...I'm sure you can roll your eyes at that, but there's a reason that it's said....it's true most of the time and unfortunately your story/love affair sounds no different than countless others that came to a crashing end.

 

However that's also a paramount difference between the women who will and women who won't. The women who won't full well realize that a guy like that can always have the potential of doing it to you some day, and therefore have enough self esteem (i.e. happy with themselves) of not going down that road. Women who engage in an A don't feel enough self worth, and therefore let the man dictate how their emotions will be run on any given day and try to convince themselves and others it's all in the name of love.

 

I wish I could really convey the even though people may be experiencing hurt and pain now of letting go of something/someone they really thought they loved...it wasn't a real love at all, it just came in that guise and swept them away, but that's exactly why it may feel so euphoric, in the right time the right love will come and it can honestly be so much better than anyone ever dreamed possible.

 

Again I say this b/c it's clear you have much drama (i.e. life is hard comment) now and more to come...it's really sad you think it's "worth" it.

 

GL to you...btw I really wish you'd go and read Nadia's posts, you'd learn a lot from her..she's a very wise woman that saw the light and is a true inspiration for OW...kudos to her for being on this board.

 

 

:love::love: Brilliant!

Edited March 21, 2008 by SofiaLo

[SofiaLo]

I didnt mean to quote everything. Just dont know how it works.

 

I came to this forum wanting to hear this.

 

It helps to keep the NC with less angst. My situation has no time for love.

[SerenityX2]

I didnt mean to quote everything. Just dont know how it works.

 

I came to this forum wanting to hear this.

 

It helps to keep the NC with less angst. My situation has no time for love.

 

Thank you (and also Minime...btw you sound like a very strong woman!)...you may want to go and pull out posts from Nadia...OWL and wwiu also have much wisdom...there are others too...but off the top of my head.

 

GL stay strong there are better days....BELIEVE!

 

peace

[SerenityX2]

Maybe you (the general "you") are expecting a specific reward, or have too tight a timeline on the expectation of receiving it - or maybe even you're not seeing the reward being provided because your expectation is for something else ....

 

Hi openbook....this is it in a nutshell.

 

However I guess I like to expound, but I see even with all that I'm still not always clear!

 

When I said that...I did mean that I finally got to a place in my life where I honestly didn't care if there was a man in my future. I worked on me, I did realize what I did or didn't want in a potential man, however I wasn't hellbent on meeting "him" or making that happen, I concentrated on bigger things...I went back to school making a major career change and basically, just realizing there are more important things in life...it wasn't about "me" it was about fulfilling a path I feel I've been set on...and that is what brought me great joy and peace. Not only was I not settling...but I wasn't really looking either...I guess it's like they say though...when you least expect it and I can see how that would lead you to believe that I'm giving others advice that "see? "pretend" like you are living your life and are happy and "he'll" come along" but that's not what I'm saying..I mean you have to "genuinely" get to that place where "you" and your family/friends are enough in your life...and the people that you meet along the way that you can hopefully inspire "each other".

 

For me true, my center is my faith and belief in God and I get that approach or thought process won't work for everyone..but the general message can....find that peace and happiness within...that's there no matter what...and maybe b/c happiness begets happiness...the rest will follow but true maybe not in "your" (general you) time...for everything there is a season...and we learn no matter what so you take that.

 

For example (and this is why I can't understand a tiny bit about the "amazing all consuming love" that OW speak of...what I have w/my H is NOTHING like that...it's not up in the clouds...it's very much grounded...but I did date someone where it was very "up in the clouds" he made me feel all those things I've read about the OW like ..amazing chem, melt when we touch (alright that I share with my H ) but just that never ending heady euphoria that makes you SOOOO happy you know what I mean? Like you can't eat, sleep, or think anyone else..they say all the "right" things to get you hooked...can't live w/o you...never felt this much passion and love, never knew someone like you existed...all that stuff...but the diff between then and now is it was shrouded in this "on top of the world feeling"...and it was very much like I "needed" him to feel that way he had to "validate" my feelings...does that make sense or sound familiar to what you've read on LS? However like I said you learn something even from the bad...and b/c this guy made me rediscover my sexuality in a completely diff manner...and made me "feel" that way...I loved how he made me laugh and how he made me feel when we were at dinner...so although it was extremely painful for it to end at the time...he was ultimately no good for me...(he was ultimately changing who I was little by little and I found myself justifying things that I shouldn't have...no, not an affair..but still a diff lifestyle that should have never entered my thoughts/consideration...but tempatation is a very strong lure.

 

So when I say that OW generally don't have the self esteem...let's look at that...when you do have it...you have a good self worth...meaning you realize that you have much to offer (gifts or talents that you have) ...you do not tolerate being treated in a disrespectful manner...you wouldn't put up with liars...you want to be around others that treat each other in that same way...you believe ALL people deserve to be treated with dignity.

 

Therefore how does an OW match up to that when they A. involve themselves with someone who consistently disrespects them a MM can only offer a divided love not be able to give of themselves "completely" ...this person lies (of course neeeever to the ow ) and they don't care who they step on to get what they want. Now add all of that to the really big thing...the days are up and down depending on the mood of the MM...ow can have the worst day on the planet...why? b/c the MM said the wrong thing...mentioned W in a positive light...and "say it isn't so" ...actually had the audacity to go back on a promise or two made to the OW.

 

From what I've read (again not every single one..but def the mass majority) the OW "needs" validation from the MM to feel sexy, desirable, happy etc etc etc...the woman w/self respect feels those things regardless and doesn't need to hear those lines. So like I said, I took those "good" things from the "bad" r'ship and in a way he helped me to see certain qualities like the fun we had in restuarants I wanted that again (didn't have that w/my ExH...he was an eat and run guy!) That's what I'm offering the OW to do...take what you learned from it...build on it...there is something better...point being "even if" it's not guy...YOU (general) won't care b/c YOU (general) are happy inside regardless...a true happiness...make sense? I hope so...I type and type and think I go in circles.

 

Your last point, ..on do I think then all MM have no character? Yep, that pretty much sums it up....how can a guy who has so little respect for his W that insted of either working on the problems at home (w/o outside influence) or divorcing...THEN spending time alone (you've read my posts prob about the utmost imporance of spending the time alone) then meeting someone...and they are lying...if not to the OW certainly to the W and kids...that is not a man of good character..so if I'm saying that it's 50pct...so be it...I'd really not like to think it's that high...but I guess it's possible...I'd never settle with that just to have "someone" ...that's called self respect.

 

And I know it sucks to be in that "alone" place figuring things out...sooo many times I wanted the calender to just speed up so I could be "over" the bad stuff and heal and be "ready" or "unbroken" or whatever else...but like I said...there's a reason for all the pain, it shapes and molds us to who we are and makes us ready for whatever that lies down the road..and I'll maintain that something IS worth it...perhaps, a man if that's what's meant...but again...and keep repeating it (to others that may benefit from the words not nec you)...when you find that happiness and contentment inside...you will be happy, filled with peace.

 

Now when I say that people come back and say you can't be peaceful 24/7 etc...etc...and like I've said..."life" is hard yes...the jobs, finance, health etc...but your r'ship should "NEVER" be a source of that...it should be that warm enveloping haven that's a respite from all of that...THAT gives you the peace..that and doing what you were meant to do on this planet...which is the one of primary importance...the rest is icing.

 

I hope I cleared things up...if not bored you..I can't seem to type a simple response sometimes!

[OpenBook]

Serenity, I hear what you and Silk are saying. But you're both shooting in the dark. You don't really KNOW what's going to happen to the OP, or anyone else. And it's quite a stretch to go from this...

 

What you're going through is the temptation...and it's a strong lure...I don't doubt it...but if you'd really just think of it as a really hard test that if you'd do the right thing that you know in your heart is right there is defintely something even better waiting for you...and it's even more joyous b/c you don't have even a shred of guilt, remorse the way the r'ship was born and you just finally "get it" ....Hope I really wish that for you.

 

... to this:

 

When I said that...I did mean that I finally got to a place in my life where I honestly didn't care if there was a man in my future. I worked on me, I did realize what I did or didn't want in a potential man, however I wasn't hellbent on meeting "him" or making that happen, I concentrated on bigger things...

 

It's very kind and nice of you to wish these nice thoughts for others. But you don't know how it's going to work out for them. And it's not your call anyway.

 

I just think it's dangerous to blow sunshine up people's skirts when you have no idea what's coming at them next in their lives.

 

I'm sticking by my point. If you choose to do the right thing, don't expect everything to be all sunshine and lollipops. Be prepared to suffer for it somehow. No good deed will go unpunished. You pay a price for everything you do.

[GreenEyedLady]

Hey GEL, how are you doing?

 

GEL, why is that Serenity wished you'd read Nadia's post? Are you not happy or something? I'm asking this cause I'm a bit confused...

 

I am doing wonderful darling! Everything is falling into place and it's smooth sailing! (Really surprised at how smooth, but thankful!)

 

I don't know why Serenity wished I read Nadia's post...Perhaps she doesn't understand that other people have their own opinions? And I don't remember reading that Nadia has ever been married or divorced, so I guess she would probably have a different take than me?

 

And we are blissfully happy! It's like being on our honeymoon...

[GreenEyedLady]

GL to you...btw I really wish you'd go and read Nadia's posts, you'd learn a lot from her..she's a very wise woman that saw the light and is a true inspiration for OW...kudos to her for being on this board.

 

OMG! This is hilarious! Hmm, are you an alter ego?

[Lyssa]

I am doing wonderful darling! Everything is falling into place and it's smooth sailing! (Really surprised at how smooth, but thankful!)

 

I don't know why Serenity wished I read Nadia's post...Perhaps she doesn't understand that other people have their own opinions? And I don't remember reading that Nadia has ever been married or divorced, so I guess she would probably have a different take than me?

 

And we are blissfully happy! It's like being on our honeymoon...

 

Different people have different take on things, yes.

 

Lucky you! Enjoy and keep me updated!