Owl Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 In an effort to understand this... I believe that its very possible that the OW/OM does understand that they're hurting the BS....and that sometimes they appear to feel some guilt/remorse/pain for having done so. But from a BS perspective, it appears that the guilt/remorse/pain that they feel still isn't enough to cause them to put a stop to the affair. They're still willing to continue the affair, even while acknowledging the pain that they're causing someone else with that action. Link to post Share on other sites
Lookingforward Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 In an effort to understand this... I believe that its very possible that the OW/OM does understand that they're hurting the BS....and that sometimes they appear to feel some guilt/remorse/pain for having done so. But from a BS perspective, it appears that the guilt/remorse/pain that they feel still isn't enough to cause them to put a stop to the affair. They're still willing to continue the affair, even while acknowledging the pain that they're causing someone else with that action. But sometimes the BS refuses to acknowledge they have had a part in causing themselves pain by simply refusing to look at what is wrong with their M or to do anything to fix it. Most threads I see here acknowledge the WS is also in pain long before an A takes place. Sometimes an A becomes their wake up call. Link to post Share on other sites
precious1357 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I just have to respond to this. Just because someone chooses (and yes I realize it is a choice) to have an affair does not mean that they do not have compassion for the W. We are all just people in this world trying to find a connection with someone else. When that person happens to be a MM, it does not mean that we have a relationship with the intent of hurting others. I feel that it is narrow minded to think that this is always the case. Did it happen? Yes. Is it probable that others could be hurt? Yes. Does that automatically mean that any OW is a soulless human being that has never cared about any one else except themselves? Absolutely not. The W is a human being as well. Many OW have never even met the W, but still feel guilty and ashamed of what has happened in spite of her. There are those of us that try to stop the relationship for that specific reason. I just think that before you say that the OW doesn't care about any one else's feelings you should sit in someone else's shoes for a while. Amen, you put it just right. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 But sometimes the BS refuses to acknowledge they have had a part in causing themselves pain by simply refusing to look at what is wrong with their M or to do anything to fix it. Most threads I see here acknowledge the WS is also in pain long before an A takes place. Sometimes an A becomes their wake up call. Here's something I've learned both in my own situation and by observing a LOT of situations here and on other boards. You're right...often there are issues in the marriage prior to the affair. But OFTEN, those issues are actually CAUSED BY THE WS THEMSELVES. Something that so many people gloss over...the kind of person who tends to get involved in an affair is often very self-centered TO BEGIN WITH. (I'm not saying that they can't change...that's another discussion). And that self-centeredness is often the very major cause of the marital issues EVEN PRIOR TO THE AFFAIR. They were in my situation, certainly. My wife has always had some degree of selfishness...considerably greater than my own, even now. And as long as its within reasonable bounds, that's really not an issue. Most marriages DO have one person who's more selfish than the other. But when that selfishness overextends itself, it leads to marital problems. OFTEN. And it is certainly part of the mindset of many people who use cheating as an "option" in their marriage. I was responsible for some issues in my marriage prior to my wife's affair. I was NOT responsible for her selfishness. I attempted any number of things to try to moderate/manage/circumvent prior to the affair. Everything from point blank discussions on the subject to attempting counseling. It wasn't until she had the affair that she began to see how much "taking" she was doing, and how much "giving" I'd been forced into. I don't buy that the BS is always at fault in an affair. I don't even buy that they're usually at fault. The AFFAIR IS NEVER THE BS'S FAULT. The BS may contribute to the state of the marriage...but even then, the WS often has the lion share of the issues TO BEGIN WITH. If one person in a relationship is so selfish and self-centered to begin with...is that the fault of the other person? And that selfishness and self-centeredness is a HALLMARK of your normal WS. Link to post Share on other sites
Lookingforward Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Here's something I've learned both in my own situation and by observing a LOT of situations here and on other boards. You're right...often there are issues in the marriage prior to the affair. But OFTEN, those issues are actually CAUSED BY THE WS THEMSELVES. Something that so many people gloss over...the kind of person who tends to get involved in an affair is often very self-centered TO BEGIN WITH. (I'm not saying that they can't change...that's another discussion). And that self-centeredness is often the very major cause of the marital issues EVEN PRIOR TO THE AFFAIR. They were in my situation, certainly. My wife has always had some degree of selfishness...considerably greater than my own, even now. And as long as its within reasonable bounds, that's really not an issue. Most marriages DO have one person who's more selfish than the other. But when that selfishness overextends itself, it leads to marital problems. OFTEN. And it is certainly part of the mindset of many people who use cheating as an "option" in their marriage. I was responsible for some issues in my marriage prior to my wife's affair. I was NOT responsible for her selfishness. I attempted any number of things to try to moderate/manage/circumvent prior to the affair. Everything from point blank discussions on the subject to attempting counseling. It wasn't until she had the affair that she began to see how much "taking" she was doing, and how much "giving" I'd been forced into. I don't buy that the BS is always at fault in an affair. I don't even buy that they're usually at fault. The AFFAIR IS NEVER THE BS'S FAULT. The BS may contribute to the state of the marriage...but even then, the WS often has the lion share of the issues TO BEGIN WITH. If one person in a relationship is so selfish and self-centered to begin with...is that the fault of the other person? And that selfishness and self-centeredness is a HALLMARK of your normal WS. Owl I agree with all you've posted - I would never assume there wasn't "fault" on both sides in a M not working. Maybe my persepective is skewed by the fact that in my case I think the A (while he was separated) was in response to years of trying to "repair" his M after his W's infidelity. So, in that case there was selfishness on both sides. I've noticed some married partners seem to feel that being M is the be all and end all, no further "work" required once the ink is dry on the marriage certificate. To me a M or even any R for that matter is always a Work in Progress and complacency leads to all sorts of ramifications. It is true that sometimes the WS is running from their problems rather than facing them and fixing them (if possible) but that goes for the BS in a lot of cases too. All I know is, it's all way too complicated for a simple answer, but I think the "hard hearted and callous" OWs are few and far between. Affairs hurt EVERYone involved in my experience. Link to post Share on other sites
MimiMe Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I just have to respond to this. Just because someone chooses (and yes I realize it is a choice) to have an affair does not mean that they do not have compassion for the W. We are all just people in this world trying to find a connection with someone else. When that person happens to be a MM, it does not mean that we have a relationship with the intent of hurting others. I feel that it is narrow minded to think that this is always the case. Did it happen? Yes. Is it probable that others could be hurt? Yes. Does that automatically mean that any OW is a soulless human being that has never cared about any one else except themselves? Absolutely not. The W is a human being as well. Many OW have never even met the W, but still feel guilty and ashamed of what has happened in spite of her. There are those of us that try to stop the relationship for that specific reason. I just think that before you say that the OW doesn't care about any one else's feelings you should sit in someone else's shoes for a while. Dont know what happened with the quoting system... but I originally didnt write what you quoted. Just to clear that up. Link to post Share on other sites
MimiMe Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I am happy with my life, period... The R has very little to do with being happy...It's just a piece of it...I am happy with my career, my family, my friends, my education... It seems like you're making it into a competition, and that's not what it is at all... From what you've asked it seems like you assume it is the OW's GOAL to break up the M...And if you stick around long enough and keep an open mind, you'll realize that's not it at all... GEL I wasn't asking you solely because you were the OW, I was asking you questions that I would have asked anyone just to get to know them. And for some OW their GOAL is to break up a home, seen it in my life time. Every head is a different world and not every story is written the same. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Affairs hurt EVERYone involved in my experience. I wholeheartedly agree with this. This has been my experience as well. Link to post Share on other sites
MimiMe Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I just think that before you say that the OW doesn't care about any one else's feelings you should sit in someone else's shoes for a while. What kind of life is this??? Put myself in the shoes of who???!!! So now you're suggesting that a BS should wear the shoes of the OW before she goes assuming? I am a BS and trust me I could never put myself in the situation of being somoene's alternate. Bad enough that I had to share my own H. LOL! That's why he's marching to the stbxH beat... Honestly, how many OW/OM really lose sleep thinking over the pain that they cause a BS. Yes I know that some will say "Well he/she cheated on you, not me!!" I see many here that say the BS is not of their concern or who cares about the BS spouse feelings... DO YOU! Not everyone... but I've seen couple of these type of mentalities here. Link to post Share on other sites
MimiMe Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I wholeheartedly agree with this. This has been my experience as well. Cosign it. It seems though as some of the OW/OM that do end up with the MM/MW glorify the fact and chose to believe as they never hurt a roach to get to that stage of the relationship. Either that or they just have selective memory. Link to post Share on other sites
twice_shy Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Affairs hurt EVERYone involved in my experience. And probably no more so than the kids. To this day my wife tries to lay a guilt trip on me when I am out of town on the weekends I don't have my kids when an activity comes up, which she could take them to but doesn't like to because it cuts into her time, saying that I am hurting my kids. To which I remind her, "I didn't do this to the kids, you did." I just love the guilt tripping from an X who was nothing but a cheater trying to tell me I'm hurting the kids. Bottom line, she has her weekends, I have mine, but she likes to pawn them off so she can have extra weekends. Link to post Share on other sites
Je Ne Regrette Rien Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Honestly, how many OW/OM really lose sleep thinking over the pain that they cause a BS. I have...as you say, every head is a different universe. Link to post Share on other sites
MimiMe Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I have...as you say, every head is a different universe. And did it send you flying? Where in life are you now? (sorry I dont know your story). Link to post Share on other sites
Je Ne Regrette Rien Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 And did it send you flying? Where in life are you now? (sorry I dont know your story). Yes it did to the point where some of my actions were solely borne from guilt at the detriment of my own life. I have forgiven myself now. I held myself responsible for ALL pain, when in fact some of the pain culminated from some of the Ws actions and some of the Hs actions. The fact that MM had an affair effectively "erased" any problems prior to the affair that may have been caused by W. It also afforded W the right (in her mind) to use her children to portray her hurt. This effectively ended the marriage, not the affair. I drew a line in the sand of what exactly I was responsible for. I allowed W to personally threaten me, destroy two jobs (one when the A had ended) physically threaten me, get her young children to call me and abuse me over the telephone. I allowed it to happen because I was under the impression it was "what I deserved" because of guilt. My status now is that MM left and we are together. I still think affairs cause hurt to everyone involved and I wouldn't encourage anyone to embark on one. Link to post Share on other sites
mistresswchildren Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Dont know what happened with the quoting system... but I originally didnt write what you quoted. Just to clear that up. Mimi Sorry to miss quote you. Whoever wrote it wasn't necessarily thinking that the OW has any human emotion. Thanks for your comments on my thread by the way. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 But sometimes the BS refuses to acknowledge they have had a part in causing themselves pain by simply refusing to look at what is wrong with their M or to do anything to fix it. Most threads I see here acknowledge the WS is also in pain long before an A takes place. Sometimes an A becomes their wake up call. The pain in a marriage is something between the 2 spouses. It is brought by those 2 people. An affair is a pain that at least one spouse isn't responsible for or contributed to. They didn't join the sex organs together. Problems are part of any relationship, but affairs aren't. And some of the pain of the ws is solely because they don't want to compromise in a marriage. OP hear one half of the story, sometimes embellished, and they typically use the excuse, I feel in love. Love isn't something that you can help, but the actions to act on it is. Link to post Share on other sites
mistresswchildren Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Let me start by saying i did not go out with the intention of having an affair and its not something im proud of, but i would not change a thing as im the happiest ive been. I met my partner whilst he was married and we had every intention of only being friends. After a couple of weeks things moved to the next level and although i knew it was wrong it still FELT right and over the following couple of weeks I knew that i loved him and that he loved me. I did not ask him to leave his wife, i just made him realise that doing the right thing by her and his daughter was not always the best thing and if he wanted to be completly happy he had to follow his heart. His heart led him to my door and i do not feel guilty or ashamed that he left his wife because that was his decision and his alone. Admittedly things have not been easy and his wife has taken it hard and tried to make life difficult for us but i do not blame her, i know she is bitter and still loves him, i cant blame her for that, but she cant blame me for loving him either. We have been togeather for a year now and i know he has no intention of going back to her, we are happy and it can work out. Dont give up hope I am sincerely happy for you! I wish that we could all end up that happy. I hope this for anyone that has been in an A. Your outcome was much better than other people that I know. Keep your relationship strong and give us all hope for a better future. Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 I wasn't asking you solely because you were the OW, I was asking you questions that I would have asked anyone just to get to know them. And for some OW their GOAL is to break up a home, seen it in my life time. Every head is a different world and not every story is written the same. That's why I posted as I did... Everyone's story is not the same... And if you're here long enough, you'll realize it.... Link to post Share on other sites
MimiMe Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Yes it did to the point where some of my actions were solely borne from guilt at the detriment of my own life. I have forgiven myself now. I held myself responsible for ALL pain, when in fact some of the pain culminated from some of the Ws actions and some of the Hs actions. The fact that MM had an affair effectively "erased" any problems prior to the affair that may have been caused by W. It also afforded W the right (in her mind) to use her children to portray her hurt. This effectively ended the marriage, not the affair. I drew a line in the sand of what exactly I was responsible for. I allowed W to personally threaten me, destroy two jobs (one when the A had ended) physically threaten me, get her young children to call me and abuse me over the telephone. I allowed it to happen because I was under the impression it was "what I deserved" because of guilt. My status now is that MM left and we are together. I still think affairs cause hurt to everyone involved and I wouldn't encourage anyone to embark on one. OH Damn! I had similar issues but cause by the OW. Hope you are free of demons and in tune with your soul and spirit. All the best! Link to post Share on other sites
whereisthelight Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Here is a quote from another website: "Extra marital affairs are very seductive. They remove the participants from thier real issues and offer to each a false sense of belonging" I wanna say its from a website of Rod Smith. Since each of you is capable of cheating, as you have already demonstrated, it is possible for each of you to betray each other with someone else when things start getting tough. Marriage is not just based on lust and love. Its based on trusting that the person you married would be willing to go through the tough times as well as all the good times. Don't you deserve to believe that he will be there to the end when the two of you start going through those times? Don't MM and W deserve to finish thier unfinished business without you in the sidelines? If W is bitter,this child will know it. Your relationship with this child can be poisioned. Is that fair to you and your relationship with the child? These are hard things to think about. You deserve better. The child deserves to know that mom and dad did everything they could to keep the family together. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Hope4usyet Posted April 7, 2008 Author Share Posted April 7, 2008 Cosign it. It seems though as some of the OW/OM that do end up with the MM/MW glorify the fact and chose to believe as they never hurt a roach to get to that stage of the relationship. Either that or they just have selective memory. Can I just say that I do not glorify the fact I have had an affair!! I will be the first one to admit that people got hurt and im not pround of it. I will however say that I did NOT intentionally hurt these people. I neither have nor intend to have a selective memory. I will never ferget what has happened but I will not sit dwelling on it either. I am happy with my man and I wont punish myself for the way it happened!!! Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Can I just say that I do not glorify the fact I have had an affair!! I will be the first one to admit that people got hurt and im not pround of it. I will however say that I did NOT intentionally hurt these people. I neither have nor intend to have a selective memory. I will never ferget what has happened but I will not sit dwelling on it either. I am happy with my man and I wont punish myself for the way it happened!!! In total agreement here... It's sad when a M ends, but that's what happens in over 50% of them... If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out and there's a reason for it... The reason goes beyond another person... I'm happy, too...I'm sorry that someone got hurt, but I'm not sorry that I'm with the man I love... Link to post Share on other sites
MimiMe Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 In total agreement here... It's sad when a M ends, but that's what happens in over 50% of them... If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out and there's a reason for it... The reason goes beyond another person... I'm happy, too...I'm sorry that someone got hurt, but I'm not sorry that I'm with the man I love... At least I see you saying you're sorry. I've seen others say "I dont give a whoop!". and hoonestly GEL, I had this impression of you. That you personally cared less... but I just got a brain wrinkle! Each day we learn something new! Link to post Share on other sites
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