Do atheists or people with the "wrong" religion go to Heaven?

[shadowofman]

Is that lust?, YOUR GOING TO HELL!!!!!

[Citizen Erased]

Is that lust?, YOUR GOING TO HELL!!!!!

 

Honey, it's always lust when it comes to me

[Rooster_DAR]

There is no such thing as a "wrong" religion, there are just different shades of silly and superstitious. This obsession with binary thinking is dangerous and holds back progress.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

I've been contemplating this notion for a long time. I don't believe religious people are really harming anything other than their ability to progress in many ways, and I also do believe having a religion or belief in a higher power has some incidental benefit (spirituality).

 

I myself choose to believe what science is showing us, and to me it just makes more sense, there is material evidence, and it supports critical thinking.

 

Cheers!

[Moose]

I don't believe religious people are really harming anything other than their ability to progress in many ways,

NAME some ways.....

 

This is a ridiculous claim. There isn't anything on this planet a religious person couldn't progress in that the next guy can't.....back up your claim....

 

In fact, I would argue that non-believers limit themselves rather than the other way around.

 

Un-believers lean on their own knowledge and understanding where believers have the Word of God Himself Who Knows All.

[allina]

There is no such thing as a "wrong" religion, there are just different shades of silly and superstitious. This obsession with binary thinking is dangerous and holds back progress.

 

 

Exactly, not to mention all the war, hate and oppression this "right religion" breeds

 

I've been contemplating this notion for a long time. I don't believe religious people are really harming anything other than their ability to progress in many ways

 

The problem I have is not even that they are harming themselves it's now they harm others and society. They push their absurd beliefs on everyone, and want their ideal to be part of the law.

 

In my opinion Christianity is as far from love and acceptance as one can get.

[sb129]

Nobody really knows the answer to that question Belkin.

 

I am an atheist, which means I don't believe in a heaven. If by some chance I am wrong, there seems to be differing opinions as to what the requirements are to get in.

By some standards, I would be a shoo- in (live as a good person as much as I can) but by others I wouldn't (don't believe in a god).

 

ITs impossible to say....

[Moose]

Exactly, not to mention all the war, hate and oppression this "right religion" breeds

Look at the history regarding that issue and you'll find 99% of the time it's usually the men who twist their religion to suit his/her needs......

The problem I have is not even that they are harming themselves it's now they harm others and society. They push their absurd beliefs on everyone, and want their ideal to be part of the law.

Well, until you can come up with ABSOLUTE morals yourself, you really have no right to call one religion or the other, "absurd".

 

Just how are religious people harming themselves anyway?

In my opinion Christianity is as far from love and acceptance as one can get.

It saddens me that you would feel that way. It's obvious you've gotten a bad taste in your mouth. Whomever's responsible for that will get their just desserts....

 

Thanks for you opinions though.....very interesting....

[allina]

Look at the history regarding that issue and you'll find 99% of the time it's usually the men who twist their religion to suit his/her needs......Well, until you can come up with ABSOLUTE morals yourself, you really have no right to call one religion or the other, "absurd".

 

Just how are religious people harming themselves anyway?It saddens me that you would feel that way. It's obvious you've gotten a bad taste in your mouth. Whomever's responsible for that will get their just desserts....

 

Thanks for you opinions though.....very interesting....

 

Are you making a joke/play on words with the first portion of your response? I agree that religious people twist their religion around to make it fit what they're trying to accomplish. Your God was, and is used as justification for slavery, murder and hate groups.

 

I'm not saying that I have absolute morals (whatever that may mean) I do however have enough acceptance in my heart to not control others with my PERSONAL beliefs. You can go to your church, believe in your god, believe in your heaven. I won't try to stop you, but keep your "morals" away from MY laws. You have no right to decide who can and can't marry and what to teach in our public schools. Apply your "morals" to yourself, not non-believers.

 

Last, I think religious people are hurting themselves by having blind faith control their actions and emotions. For example, I feel like you (Christians) elected Bush because he scared you and tossed around terms like Jesus, god and family values. Because he's a "good Christian" you let him get you (and us!) in to a terrible war where we have all lost loved ones and suffered as a society.

 

Another way Christians hurt themselves is through their hate and discrimination. Many Christians would prefer to disown a child for marrying someone of a different religion, having a child out of wedlock, having an abortion or being gay. Does it not hurt to hate so much that it rips apart your family?

 

If I was a Christian I would hurt myself by never meeting and falling in love with my SO. He is an incredible man, he treats me like gold and I'm so thankful that he is mine. However he's from a Hindu background, so if I was a Christian I would have condemned him as a sinner who is going to hell, not my love who brings joy to my life.

 

I am obviously an atheist, I am also a really good person. The good people I see in my everyday life are non-believers. We want equality and we care about people (all people).

 

On the other hand what I see from Christians is hateful signs at abortion clinics and gay pride parades. I remember when this trans-gender teenager was murdered, a lot of Christians showed up at the funeral with signs reading "no fags in heaven" and "no tears for queers" it was disgusting. When Christians help people through organizations they care more about converting people than about providing them food and aid.

[Belkin]

Allina, don't confuse Christians and extremists. It's the same for every religion, the vast majority of those who practice it respect others, whatever their religion or beliefs. But as always, those who yell the strongest are those you hear; most Christians (as most Jews, Muslims, etc) are totally against extremism, whatever its form. Showing hatred towards a particular group of people has nothing to do with religion, religion is used only as an excuse in those cases.

[amethyst3]

The problem is that what is considered a terrible sin in some religions is benign in others. So how is it all supposed to match up? Do only a very small percentage of the human race get to go to Heaven (ie those of the "right" religion,) or does everyone go as long as they lived what they believed to be a good life? or what else?

 

My opinion: everyone meets the exact same fate and that is eternal death. There is no heaven or hell, for they are man-made concepts. When our bodies die, so do we and we no longer exist on any realm except in the hearts and minds of our loved ones.

 

And that goes for everyone, regardless of religious beliefs.

[Rooster_DAR]

Allina, don't confuse Christians and extremists. It's the same for every religion, the vast majority of those who practice it respect others, whatever their religion or beliefs. But as always, those who yell the strongest are those you hear; most Christians (as most Jews, Muslims, etc) are totally against extremism, whatever its form. Showing hatred towards a particular group of people has nothing to do with religion, religion is used only as an excuse in those cases.

 

I agree here as well, it's the extreme radicals and bible thumpers that are the issue, good stable religions/religious people don't push their beliefs or at least not as much. I have very good Christian friends, my family is Christian, and they respect my beliefs (Okay, my mother nags me sometimes, but..).

 

Cheers!

[Moose]

Are you making a joke/play on words with the first portion of your response?

No, not at all.....I find it comical that this is the usual, "First Response" from an atheist. That's all.

I agree that religious people twist their religion around to make it fit what they're trying to accomplish. Your God was, and is used as justification for slavery, murder and hate groups.

More like, "Religious Zealots" which the remainder of us Christians suffer greatly for their irresponsibilty. To put EVERY Christian in that catagory is plain wrong......and insulting.

I do however have enough acceptance in my heart to not control others with my PERSONAL beliefs.

Do ALL Christian do this? No....I think not.

I won't try to stop you, but keep your "morals" away from MY laws.

These aren't just your laws though. Besides, most Christian morals are already inherent.

I feel like you (Christians) elected Bush because he scared you and tossed around terms like Jesus, god and family values.

Again, you're generalizing. You're placing ALL Christians into one group. Do you think that's fair? Not all Christians voted for GW.

Another way Christians hurt themselves is through their hate and discrimination.

Generalization again....it's too bad you're so set on including all Christians into this group....it simply isn't true.so

if I was a Christian I would have condemned him as a sinner who is going to hell

Christians don't condemn ANYONE. God does, that's His job, and only HE makes that determination.

We want equality and we care about people (all people).

No, want you want is toleration. Sorry, but some things can not and will not be tolerated by God. That's just the way it is.

On the other hand what I see from Christians is hateful signs at abortion clinics and gay pride parades. I remember when this trans-gender teenager was murdered, a lot of Christians showed up at the funeral with signs reading "no fags in heaven" and "no tears for queers" it was disgusting.

I would be the first person to question their faith. I would also be the first one to protest these, "Christians".....

 

Like I've said....I think this bad taste in your mouth is quite unfortunate and I'd personally wouldn't like being placed in the same catagory as you place all other Christians....

[sally4sara]

No, want you want is toleration. Sorry, but some things can not and will not be tolerated by God. That's just the way it is.

 

What God will or won't tolerate remains to be seen and won't come to pass till judgment day. Till then, we don't need anyone taking God's job upon themselves and trying to enact laws in his name based on imperfect human interpretations of an already overly interpreted book such as the Bible.

[Rooster_DAR]

I agree with a little of the last posts, and I agree a little with Moose.

 

 

Unfortunately, (or Unfortunately) depending on your views religion is sewn in to politics, law, and nearly everything we are living around. So, some of these religions make their way into law and politics, that's what they are upset about and I don't blame them. Some of the laws IMO are just lame at best, but we have to live with majority rules, or at least that's the way it supposed to work.

 

I guess it kind of goes both ways, some scientific ideals have made their way into law and politics as well, I guess it's something we all need to learn to live with. It seems these kinds of clashes are going to go on for a while, it will be interesting to see how things pan our for our descendants. Personally I think it's OK to teach what they are teaching now, divine creation along with evolution, let the individuals decide what they want to.

 

Cheers!

[shadowofman]

It is very common for atheists to blame religion for evil in the world, like Dawkins does, but it is social injustice and inequality that cause these things. It is then easy for leaders to use religion to rally followers to evil causes. Religion is fuel for the fire that already exists.

 

That being said, religions are still based on faith and defy critical thinking.

 

I don't believe religious people are really harming anything other than their ability to progress in many ways,

 

NAME some ways.....

This is a ridiculous claim. There isn't anything on this planet a religious person couldn't progress in that the next guy can't.....back up your claim....

 

I'll name one.

A scientific understanding of Abiogenesis! In other words, how did God create life? By what method? If your answer is simply, "He just did!", or "By magic!", or "We are not meant to know!", or "We could never know!", then you ARE holding back your progress in terms of understanding the universe.

[disgracian]

NAME some ways.....

They get all their ideas on morality and life from material written thousands of years ago. It might surprise you to learn that there have actually been a lot of new and beneficial ideas since Jesus departed this mortal existence.

There isn't anything on this planet a religious person couldn't progress in that the next guy can't

You are right...providing he abandons his religion and instead adopts critical thinking and logic as his guide.

Un-believers lean on their own knowledge and understanding where believers have the Word of God Himself Who Knows All.

Leaning on one's own knowledge is how we gain more knowledge; reading from the same book for thousands of years locks one into the same anachronistic pattern of thinking. It leads to people disregarding new knowledge for no reason other than it conflicts with deeply cherished beliefs.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Hope4usyet]

You never find an athiest on a sinking ship and how can you go to a place that you dont believe in. After all, what the mind doesnt believe the eye cant possibly see.

[JamesM]

It is very common for atheists to blame religion for evil in the world, like Dawkins does, but it is social injustice and inequality that cause these things. It is then easy for leaders to use religion to rally followers to evil causes. Religion is fuel for the fire that already exists.

 

Well said.

 

That being said, religions are still based on faith and defy critical thinking.

 

Actually, there are a number (quite a number) of philosophers who give great arguments as to why God exists. While I have no doubt you may disagree with their conclusions, I am guessing that you would agree that they use critical thinking.

 

I'll name one.

A scientific understanding of Abiogenesis! In other words, how did God create life? By what method? If your answer is simply, "He just did!", or "By magic!", or "We are not meant to know!", or "We could never know!", then you ARE holding back your progress in terms of understanding the universe.

 

I thought this one would make it on the list when I saw Moose's "challenge." Moose, apologies for jumping in here.

 

Do we logically conclude life began from nothing but some non-living chemicals ("poof! magical!") with no First Cause or can we logically conclude that life was created by a Being who has been from all eternity.

 

Which is more magical?

 

I am well aware that this could lead into the Creation issue, and this is not what I am trying to do (nor am I attempting to derail this thread towards that direction), but we do have to admit that spontaneous generation was ruled out generations ago. So, to say that "God did it" is magical and ignore the "magical" issues of how non-living chemicals can "create" life defies critical thinking IMO.

 

What always baffles me is that we can say that life began by abiogenesis and then proceed to determine HOW it happened, but when one says "God did it," we assume that it logically means that we do not need to determine HOW God did it. I think this is a fallacy. I know of many books that give explanations as to how God created the Heavens and the Earth yet acknowledging that HE did it. When an evolutionary biologist decides that life began somehow without God and then proceeds to show how it developed/evolved, he or she is doing the same thing. One uses God as the starting point, while the other uses abiogenisis. I know of very few (if any) people who say that because God created, we should not determine how He created.

 

But using this as one of the ways God believers cannot progress is true if one concludes that anything that shows there is no God is progression. However, I think we can safely say that accepting spontaneous generation (whether it is special or general) would be considered regression...not progression.

[Enema]

Do we logically conclude life began from nothing but some non-living chemicals ("poof! magical!") with no First Cause or can we logically conclude that life was created by a Being who has been from all eternity.

 

I don't think we can conclude either of those things from the limited information we have now.

 

I think what shadowofman is trying to say (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that there are a lot of questions we don't know the answer to yet.

 

A non-religious person will research these questions and our knowledge and understanding of how it all began is constantly progressing.

 

A religious person who says "god did it" instead of "I don't know, but let's find out" has limited themselves from "progressing" as no further research would be required if they're sincere in that belief.

[Moose]

A religious person who says "god did it" instead of "I don't know, but let's find out" has limited themselves from "progressing" as no further research would be required if they're sincere in that belief.

A religious person. That's my whole point. Yes, I adhere to the, "God did it" theory, HOWEVER......that doesn't mean I, (or MANY other Christians) stop there.

 

I find it fascinating to see science unfold getting us closer and closer to just how life was formed.

 

I'm VERY sincere in my beliefs, that doesn't mean I'll ever stop researching.....I've found that it only reinforces my faith.

 

To assume that religous people are so simpleton to stop searching is ridiculous. This again in my mind is generalizing.

[a4a]

Well I am an atheist or something like that..... so if I don't go to heaven/ if there was one - all you believers are going to miss out on a hell of alot of fun without me there.

 

You might want to reconsider and think about the company you will be keeping in such a place.

[marlena]

Heaven and hell are right here on Earth. At the end of our sojourn in this life, we will all have experienced both to one extent or another and many times over.

[JamesM]

 

A religious person who says "god did it" instead of "I don't know, but let's find out" has limited themselves from "progressing" as no further research would be required if they're sincere in that belief.

 

Actually, I disagree. Reread my post to see how knowing who did something and how it was done can be two separate questions to be answered.

 

Saying God did it does not mean all investigations are done. Saying life evolved does not mean all investigations are done.

 

Simply because one knows God did it does not mean one knows the mechanism with which He did it.

[Pyro]

Well I am an atheist or something like that..... so if I don't go to heaven/ if there was one - all you believers are going to miss out on a hell of alot of fun without me there.

 

You might want to reconsider and think about the company you will be keeping in such a place.

 

I have a guest pass. I can sneak you in if you'd like.

[allina]

I'll ever stop researching.....I've found that it only reinforces my faith.

 

So you seriously believe that God created the earth a couple thousand years ago?? Do you think he created dinosaurs? If you researched this you must have stumbled upon massive amounts of evidence that life existed long before you think your God created everything. How do you rationalize all of this?