Dr. Drew Psycho-babbling and showing cultural bias

[shadowofman]

It's fairly obvious that promiscuousness is demonized in our culture. I was watching Larry King Live tonight and it was hosted by Dr. Drew. The topic was Cheating Spouses, Infidelity, why they do it, etc.

 

All show long it was "sex addicts this", and "sex addicts that". Basically accepting the fact that that there are a larger percentage of cheaters, but then blaming their infidelity on sexual addiction. This is ridiculous! This is just another example of ignoring the root of the problem and that is promiscuity. Promiscuity, not even a topic, because it is assumed as immature, wrong, a sin, or an addiction. Just unnatural.

 

But it is not wrong and far from unnatural. It is a sexual orientation, and far, far from an immoral one like Pedophilia. It is not superior to monogamy, but not inferior either. They are equally valid. Each for some, but not others. It's not a sin, and while there is obviously increased risk for STD, that certainly does not invalidate it as acceptable sexual behavior.

 

Cheating is not excusable and undeniably immoral. I agreed with the topic of the show that cheating is rampant. The argument is of semantics and fairness, and Dr. Drew's opinions are CONTRIBUTING to the problem. YES, CONTIBUTING!!

 

Rather than accepting the fact that some people should not enter into monogamous relationships in the first place, they are told to conform. "Change your deviant behavior, be one of us." This leads to more secrecy, more infidelity, and can lead to extremely dangerous behavior. You cannot change your sexual orientation, you can only fool yourself into thinking that it's wrong, destructive, or not worth it.

 

It's like telling homosexuals that they are wrong and need to become straight. Do you really think this is going to last? And when people have to hide things, they end up doing dangerous and risky things. Best to be in the light where you can make rational choices.

[Ocean-Blue]

This is a very interesting post SofM...

 

I've never thought of promiscuity as a sexual orientation.

 

Cheating is obviously wrong (as you said). The problem is that these people willingly enter monogamous relationships and then CHOOSE to cheat. It's the same as a homosexual entering a heterosexual relationship (fully aware of their sexual orientation) and then betraying their spouse/partner later on by "coming out."

 

They have no excuse. They cannot say, "but, but...it's unacceptable for me to be promiscuous...so instead I cheat." They are adults.

[shadowofman]

Thanks!

Sexual orientation means any or all of one's sexual inclinations. You should check out my thread "Magnus Hirshfeld and Me" for more discussion (mainly with myself) about the nature of human sexual orientation. But we will leave that to the Sexual Identity section.

 

They have no excuse. They cannot say, "but, but...it's unacceptable for me to be promiscuous...so instead I cheat." They are adults.

 

No doubt there are selfish people out there that are both promiscuous and possessive. The real "have your cake eat it too people", but most promiscuous people don't even consider themselves as such. I believe because the culture makes promiscuity not a favorable option for them. They are sluts and players. They have to trick themselves into believing that monogamy is possible for them "if the right one" comes along. This almost always fails even if they find a supermodel partner.

[Ocean-Blue]

No doubt there are selfish people out there that are both promiscuous and possessive. The real "have your cake eat it too people", but most promiscuous people don't even consider themselves as such. I believe because the culture makes promiscuity not a favorable option for them. They are sluts and players. They have to trick themselves into believing that monogamy is possible for them "if the right one" comes along. This almost always fails even if they find a supermodel partner.

 

I'd have to agree with you there. My cultural background is quite restrictive when it comes to sexual exploration. Heck, even dating is a no-no. They like you to stick to the first man you "date" (should your family be so liberal) and then marry him.

 

A lot of it is social conditioning. But how much of it is natural drive and biology? I mean...what if one is just lazy or likes the thrill of a new partner. So you go from one to the other, without much thought. Sometimes, we get bored with people...we want something new and exciting. Wouldn't it be easy for such a person to say, "hey, it's not me...it's my orientation." Say you get involved with someone and are in an exclusive relationship and then one day they tell you, "sorry babe but I'm sexually promiscuous...I don't believe in monogamy any more."

 

This would lead to great hurt and pain. I suppose our society should begin to understand this notion of sexual promiscuity... So people don't feel the need to pretend.

[shadowofman]

A lot of it is social conditioning. But how much of it is natural drive and biology? I mean...what if one is just lazy or likes the thrill of a new partner. So you go from one to the other, without much thought. Sometimes, we get bored with people...we want something new and exciting. Wouldn't it be easy for such a person to say, "hey, it's not me...it's my orientation."

 

It's all natural drive and biology, that or in the soul (whatever is your foundation). Some people are only sexually attracted to the person they are in a loving relationship with. These people have zero natural promiscuousness. Others are naturally driven to have multiple sexual partners whether it is because of the "thrill" of the new, or the monotony of monogamy. And that is exactly what they should be saying; "I shouldn't get into a monogamous relationship because of my orientation."

 

Say you get involved with someone and are in an exclusive relationship and then one day they tell you, "sorry babe but I'm sexually promiscuous...I don't believe in monogamy any more."

 

That is my situation actually. But I came at it from a different angle. I got involved with a monogamous person with the ill-informed, preconceived notion that all people were promiscuous on the inside (all of my past relationships were very promiscuous). Over the years I have learned that my wife is truly monogamous, and we are currently dealing with that irreconcilable difference. It is very painful. If only I had not made that assumption and expressed my sexual orientation clearly, we would never have gotten involved like this in the first place.

 

This would lead to great hurt and pain. I suppose our society should begin to understand this notion of sexual promiscuity... So people don't feel the need to pretend.

 

It wouldn't cure cheating, but it will greatly reduce the frequency, rather than contributing to the problem. Forcing anything underground creates the opposite effect that was intended.

[dancinggal]

ShadowOfMan, I have to agree with you. I think that promiscuity is a sexual orientation, however it is not a classification. There are definately people who are more inclined to participate and seek monogamus relationships, and there are definately people who seek the opposite.

 

The way I see it, I am someone who is in between. Not that I have one night stands, but I do not see the need to form a strong connection with the person I am sleeping with, and also do not need to have a continuous relationship with that person. However, I am very comfortable right now in a monogamus relationship. I believe this is how most people are.

 

My boyfriend is most definately inclined to participate in monogamus relationships. He does not see the appeal at all in sleeping with 'randoms' (and he played college football, so its not like he didn't have the choice). He needs to be 'into' the girl in order to pursue a sexual relationship with them (and this has been confirmed numerous times).

 

Cheating is different though, that is the choice to deceive someone. However, promiscuity does have its place. I know couples who have open relationships, as they have admitted that they enjoy the 'thrill of the chase' and although they want partnership, they also want the opportunity to express that side of themselves. In this way, what they do cannot be seen as cheating, because they are not deceiving each other. Ultimately, what is constituted as cheating is decided on between the couple.

[shadowofman]

I think that promiscuity is a sexual orientation, however it is not a classification.

 

I understand what you are saying here, and you are 100% correct. All sexual orientations are not black and white classifications. Even heterosexuality and homosexuality. It is a grey scale of varying degrees of inclination. Magnus Hirshfeld described this observation in the late 1800's, and applied it to all the hundreds of sexual inclinations observed in people. I am adding promiscuousness to this list, as it is a sexual desire found in a huge percentage of people worldwide.

 

Also, rethinking your concerns Ocean,

Say you get involved with someone and are in an exclusive relationship and then one day they tell you, "sorry babe but I'm sexually promiscuous...I don't believe in monogamy any more."

This would lead to great hurt and pain.

 

Well, the hurt an pain is potential with or without this new understanding. I really can not see how, this understanding could lead to MORE pain and hurt. Unless you think that cheating and dumping without this explanation are softer on the feelings. If one were to come to this understanding of themselves, and before they betrayed the trust of their lover they chose to express this, they should be ready for the end of the relationship. I think it would actually cause LESS heartache.

[shadowofman]

95 views and only two other posters. Maybe I should have put this in a different section. I'm jealous of the Dr. Laura thread.

[Arch]

The spread of STDs is mainly caused by people unable to show self control, If people only had 1/2 sexual partners in their life - even if they had HIV/AIDs and all the other STDs all the disease's would probably be eradicated within 60 years.

 

I think people lack self control, everyone wants to have sex - why is it only some people are able to control it?

[shadowofman]

Are you able to control your desire to have sex? What about eating sugar? You have an extremely high risk of cancer these days, and are you eating the fruits and veggies you need to protect yourself? Why do any of us do what we do?

Every single person lacks self control for one reason or another. For some of us it is sex. I don't see a real problem with this.

 

This is my point here. A monogamous person, who almost certainly would not be able to control their desire for sex, is passing judgment on a promiscuously oriented person. Promiscuousness is considered perverse, excessive, selfish, and the cause of all our problems. It is demonized, when in fact, is is not at all inferior to, or less moral than monogamy.

[audrey_1]

I can see your point, but I am of the camp where I'd prefer to be told upfront by someone I was dating they had promiscuous tendencies, or "orientation," for me to decide whether or not I could accept being with them.

 

I'm sure my answer would differ depending on who I was dating.

 

I prefer to be monogamous, because of the STD discussion.

 

Also, it's a pride thing.

[marlena]

Rather than accepting the fact that some people should not enter into monogamous relationships in the first place, they are told to conform. "Change your deviant behavior, be one of us." This leads to more secrecy, more infidelity, and can lead to extremely dangerous behavior. You cannot change your sexual orientation, you can only fool yourself into thinking that it's wrong, destructive, or not worth it.

 

Excellent post that tells things the way they are. There can be little doubt that societal conditioning affects our sexual behaviour/patterns. I, too, believe that some people are just not cut out for monogamy. As simple as that. The problem, like you so accurately pointed out, is that these people, even when they recognize this orientation in themselves, are often made to feel guilty or flawed in some way for what to them is second nature. Perhaps if society just accepted them for who they are, they wouldn't feel the need to conform with the "norm" and enter monogamous relationships that they know will never remain monogamous. Perhaps, then, they wouldn't have to resort to cheating and lying and hiding to live their lives the way they please. The analogy with homosexuals is a good one. Now, that homosexuality is becoming more acceptable (my country has just legalized marriage between homosexuals I am happy to say) people that way inclined need not hide in closets and pretend to be something they are not. To me, this is progress and a great relief. A hypocritical society is to me a faulty and an immoral society.

 

I am glad I did not see the show. I would be fuming for sure.

Edited March 20, 2008 by marlena

[shadowofman]

Thanks Marlena. It's all about raising awareness.

 

I am not absolving promiscuous people from responsibility. In fact I am place more responsibility upon them. There are reasons that promiscuous people enter into monogamous relationships. Some are honest mistakes and some are devious calculations.

 

There are promiscuous people that share the monogamous persons possessive nature. They "want their cake and eat it too" so to speak. (I hate that analogy!!!!!). These people are the worst.

 

But some people don't understand that they are promiscuously oriented. They don't understand that these desires or wants are never going to go away. They think that they can be monogamous, and so they enter these social contracts.

 

I can see your point, but I am of the camp where I'd prefer to be told upfront by someone I was dating they had promiscuous tendencies, or "orientation," for me to decide whether or not I could accept being with them.

 

So as far as your concern audrey_1, what if the person that is falling head over heels for you doesn't know that they can't be monogamous? Or more accurately, that monogamy will not make them happy. What if they think "monogamy with you" would make them happy? It is easy to fool yourself when you are experiencing a brand new, romantic cocktail of sexy brain chemicals."

"This is the one!" "This is the one that I can finally settle down for, she is so perfect!"

 

It's a delusion. I don't have any ideas how a monogamous person is supposed to weed out the promiscuous people. I only know that promiscuous people need to understand themselves as such and seek out relationships that can accommodate them.

[Green]

I did not catch the show you are talking about. But I have seen Dr. Drew talk about sexual addiction. And I will have to agree that there does seem to be alot of people with variouse levels of sexual adiction. Sexual adiction is different then the topic of promiscuity and whether our society is to stuck in a puriten way of life. A man for instance with a sexual adiction may end up harming himself by spending all his money and then some on hookers and strippers. A woman with a sexual adiction may end up sleeping around and then feeling like sht and then just sleep around more with people she doesn't even like... I personaly am afraid to get a disease from just sleeping around. I also enjoy having one on one relationships with women. I mean if I could figure out some way to have my cake and eat it too that would be great... but I've never been given an oportunity like that

[Ocean-Blue]

Also, rethinking your concerns Ocean,

 

Well, the hurt an pain is potential with or without this new understanding. I really can not see how, this understanding could lead to MORE pain and hurt. Unless you think that cheating and dumping without this explanation are softer on the feelings. If one were to come to this understanding of themselves, and before they betrayed the trust of their lover they chose to express this, they should be ready for the end of the relationship. I think it would actually cause LESS heartache.

 

It would lead to more hurt and pain simply b/c you are telling that person that you are not who you claimed to be. They will obviously feel betrayed and shamed b/c they did not see this side of you ("how could I have missed it?", "did I do something wrong...did I push him to be this way?").

 

I'm a little confused with what you mean by cheating and dumping without explanation. I think cheating in wrong in any situation. So the noble thing to do would be to come clean about your preference as soon as you notice it and discuss what to do with your SO.

 

Yes, come clean right away. But that does not mean you are free from blame and it certainly does not mean any less heartache. When you fall in love with someone, you put so many of your hopes and dreams into them. When they turn around and tell you that they do not believe in monogamous Rs, that will, no doubt, tear at your very being. Self doubt will settle in. This will be painful and difficult for both sides.

 

Frankly, the SO being told all of this will not understand. They will naturally think that it is something they are doing wrong - that they've done something to turn you off. Think about it. You entered the R thinking you were into monogamous Rs...and now, all of a sudden, you have an epiphany/realization that you are promiscuous. The SO will naturally think that since they are the common denominator, they did something wrong.

 

I suppose this goes back to your initial point about societal ignorance regarding promiscuity.

[shadowofman]

Oh there definitely are sex addicted people. But a person that cheats on a spouse is not automatically a sex addict. Where the addiction line is drawn is opinion. I agree that a man that spends the rent money on porn or hookers is an addict. And a woman that hates herself for her behavior yet cannot stop it is also begging to be called an addict. Key word there is hates herself. If the women has no problem with her promiscuity and it doesn't interfere with her life, then there is nothing wrong with being as promiscuous as she wants.

 

Promiscuousness, or the promiscuous sexual orientation, like all sexual orientations occurs in degrees. Some people are taboo interested. Some people couldn't care one way or the other. Some people have a focus on promiscuousness.

 

I also enjoy having one on one relationships with women. I mean if I could figure out some way to have my cake and eat it too that would be great... but I've never been given an oportunity like that

 

Sounds like my number two example. I would imagine if you found a bisexual lady with hot bisexual friends you would be all over that my promiscuous friend.

[audrey_1]

 

So as far as your concern audrey_1, what if the person that is falling head over heels for you doesn't know that they can't be monogamous? Or more accurately, that monogamy will not make them happy. What if they think "monogamy with you" would make them happy? It is easy to fool yourself when you are experiencing a brand new, romantic cocktail of sexy brain chemicals."

 

"This is the one!" "This is the one that I can finally settle down for, she is so perfect!"

 

It's a delusion. I don't have any ideas how a monogamous person is supposed to weed out the promiscuous people. I only know that promiscuous people need to understand themselves as such and seek out relationships that can accommodate them.

 

I wouldn't say it's a concern, necessarily. In my previous post, I alluded to the fact it would be a case by case basis. If I was "head over heels" with someone, I would give tolerance/understanding more of a shot than with someone I was just "in like" with who showed promiscuous tendencies.

 

I am proud when it comes to whether someone would or wouldn't cheat on me; I've usually been of the opinion there are no second chances in this area.

 

My high school boyfriend was a chronic cheater; I know it's high school, but none of my other relationships involved cheating, that I'm aware of.

 

I think this caused me to err on the side of caution when dating, and may have contributed to my commitment issues. IDK.

 

All I'm saying is it would not be black/white with me, but gray.

[Green]

Nah I wouldn't really be into that. What I would be into is a magical world where I get to date all the women I want but she only dates me. The problem is the woman who only dates you will eventualy cheat or get extremily pissed at you even if she said she was ok with it.

[shadowofman]

Wow, promiscuous and possessive. That's selfish!:cool:

[shadowofman]

I wouldn't say it's a concern, necessarily. In my previous post, I alluded to the fact it would be a case by case basis. If I was "head over heels" with someone, I would give tolerance/understanding more of a shot than with someone I was just "in like" with who showed promiscuous tendencies.

 

No what I mean is, a guy dates you and thinks you are the one. The years later realizes that monogamy wasn't really possible not even with you, the one he loves. Then he has to weigh his options. He could stay with you and be sexually miserable, or he could leave you and be emotionally miserable. Maybe by this point he will have learned of his true nature, and seek out a relationship that will satisfy him emotionally and sexually.

 

Just saying, it is easy for a promiscuous person to trick themselves into thinking monogamy is an option for them.

[Green]

I think your tainted by your own bias on the subject. Your not going to convince anybody of the things your saying. I hear you, but thats only because I'm on the same page. I'd love to have a wife, and then for it to be socialy ok for me to have a mistress or two on the side. And even though I most women have some degree of what I call admiration for their same sex, I would not necesarily want my wife to have her own lesbian lovers, or have a threesome with my wife. Now in the real word of today, people like Dr. Drew are listened to, in fact some people would even consider him a radical. As far as colective society goes I think Drew is on the money with what he says

[shadowofman]

There was really supposed to be a smiley at the end of my comment to you KMT. I was being facetious when I called you selfish. There is nothing wrong with have both promiscuous tendencies and possessive tendencies at the same time. It's just morally we suppress one in favor of the other. in your case I would presume you suppress any promiscuous desires before you would supress your possessiveness. I can say that the people that embrace both are selfish, but I do not think this is you.

 

I maybe on the pro-promiscuity side but I doubt that I'm tainted for it. I do not demonize monogamy for those who monogamy works. I think this shows a lack of bias.