Owl Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Let the excuses commence... Lets not do that... I'm interested in her response. I don't really care to blast someone before they've even responded. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 I'm interested in a response from the OP (Lizzie) on this. She states that her MM are "not abusers"...but this is clearly a sign of emotional abuse when he subjects his wife to the consequences of his affairs repeatedly. Thoughts? Well.. you're right.. it is a form of abuse if you see it this way.. I can't deny it.. but IMO no woman have to live with this.. she has the choice, but she chose to stay 5 years ago.. she knows damn well that he will never change.. so she has to deal with it. I have to say that he is a very good liar... the last time he came over, I asked him how it was at home.. he said, it was better, she just wanted a copy of the last cell phone statement.. I don't call him so he's not worried.. after that he said she will calm down.. it's always in the back of her mind though.. but I have to say that we don't see each other every single week.. I might be several weeks without hearing from him.. then I can see him 2-3 times in one week.. I'll have to be careful with the perfume.. with some MMs, they tell me not to wear any... but I guess that time, he came unannounced... so I didn't realized I had some on... Every detail is important.. that time.. it slipped. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Would you keep seeing him if he was beating her, but she chose to live with him (and the abuse) instead? Would you choose to keep seeing him if you knew he was verbally abusing her, but she chose to stay and deal with it? You made an earlier distinction on these two points...but not on this one. I don't see the difference. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 Would you keep seeing him if he was beating her, but she chose to live with him (and the abuse) instead? Would you choose to keep seeing him if you knew he was verbally abusing her, but she chose to stay and deal with it? You made an earlier distinction on these two points...but not on this one. I don't see the difference. I see a very strong distinction between a cheater and a beater.. NO I would never see a man who beat his wife. I know the MMs I see are not physically abusing their W... They are not the macho types.. He told me that when they had fights he was verbally abusive.. she is too.. so it's a fight.. other than that.. I know they get along very well... There is absolutely NO excuses for a 'beater'.. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 But there are for a man who EMOTIONALLY abuses his wife? Regardless of if she leaves...I've known any number of women who never left a PHYSICALLY abusive husband, for whatever reasons. A SERIAL cheater is EMOTIONALLY abusive. Especially in cases where he's repeatedly caught and subjects his spouse to that same trauma over and over. Again...what's the difference here? Abuse is abuse...yes? Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 she has the choice, but she chose to stay 5 years ago.. she knows damn well that he will never change.. so she has to deal with it. And he could leave if he really wanted to. He's also enabling her behaviour as much as she's enabling his. I will say this, you get the "good stuff" from him, not the daily life stuff. So, who knows if he WAS your boyfriend, maybe he'd do to you what he does to her. Many abusers come off like the good guy out in public but behind closed doors that all changes. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 And he could leave if he really wanted to. He's also enabling her behaviour as much as she's enabling his. I will say this, you get the "good stuff" from him, not the daily life stuff. So, who knows if he WAS your boyfriend, maybe he'd do to you what he does to her. Many abusers come off like the good guy out in public but behind closed doors that all changes. Hell yes.. I know.. he would do it to me too.. I know him well enough to know that.. He says it himself.. he just can't stop.. but the thing is.. I'm not his gf.. I'm his mistress.. big difference.. so yes.. I agree I always see the good side of him.. that's our benefit, us the OWs.. we only see them under their best behaviour.. But he's a good kid.. I know it sounds weird but he really is. He works his a$$ off for her and the baby.. she is spoiled in a way.. I don't see any difference with him than all the MMs out there who are cheating time after time and most have a few children.. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 But there are for a man who EMOTIONALLY abuses his wife? Regardless of if she leaves...I've known any number of women who never left a PHYSICALLY abusive husband, for whatever reasons. A SERIAL cheater is EMOTIONALLY abusive. Especially in cases where he's repeatedly caught and subjects his spouse to that same trauma over and over. Again...what's the difference here? Abuse is abuse...yes? Yeah but there is emotional abuse and emotional abuse.. physical abuse is a whole different ball game.. You are entitled to your opinion.. I am entitled to mine.. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.. I won't change my mind about this.. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 he just can't stop.. Bullcrap! He doesn't WANT to stop because he's never HAD to stop. Well, hello! This guy is going to soon be a FATHER. He better stop that behaviour, and so should she. BOTH of them need to grow up and be responsible, loving and supportive parents. If they choose (and it IS a choice) to stay the way they are, be abusive and selfish, well, their kid is going to be that way as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 I don't see any difference with him than all the MMs out there who are cheating time after time and most have a few children.. I agree. There IS no difference. They're all emotionally abusing their spouses. Just because they're all doing it, doesn't make it "right", does it? He's NOT a good kid. He's a liar, and a cheat. OK, he provides for her FINANCIALLY, but obviously he's a lousy husband if he's a serial cheater. KNOWING how she's felt about it in the past, and still doing it. That is NOT a "good kid". Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 Bullcrap! He doesn't WANT to stop because he's never HAD to stop. Well, hello! This guy is going to soon be a FATHER. He better stop that behaviour, and so should she. BOTH of them need to grow up and be responsible, loving and supportive parents. If they choose (and it IS a choice) to stay the way they are, be abusive and selfish, well, their kid is going to be that way as well. I have to disagree.. because the father is a cheater does NOT mean the child will suffer or will be like his father.. come on.. you know better. I know cheaters who are amazing dads.. great husbands.. sorry but they are. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Yeah but there is emotional abuse and emotional abuse.. physical abuse is a whole different ball game.. You are entitled to your opinion.. I am entitled to mine.. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.. I won't change my mind about this... OK...so some forms of abuse are ok then? I realize that you won't change your mind about this. You CAN'T. Because to do so would force you to look at your entire lifestyle from a whole new perspective...one that would be less flattering than the way that you view it now. We'll agree to disagree, and I'll drop it here. Thanks for the responses. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 I agree. There IS no difference. They're all emotionally abusing their spouses. Just because they're all doing it, doesn't make it "right", does it? He's NOT a good kid. He's a liar, and a cheat. OK, he provides for her FINANCIALLY, but obviously he's a lousy husband if he's a serial cheater. KNOWING how she's felt about it in the past, and still doing it. That is NOT a "good kid". Well.. like I said previously, you are entitled to your opinion.. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 I have to disagree.. because the father is a cheater does NOT mean the child will suffer or will be like his father.. come on.. you know better. I'm talking about their dynamtic together. The yelling, the fighting, the manipulation, the disrespect, the threats...ALL that crap has to stop. BOTH of them need individual counselling to deal with their emotional stuff and learn how to communicate better and compromise. To understand eachother and have more respect. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 I'm talking about their dynamtic together. The yelling, the fighting, the manipulation, the disrespect, the threats...ALL that crap has to stop. BOTH of them need individual counselling to deal with their emotional stuff and learn how to communicate better and compromise. To understand eachother and have more respect. I agree.. and I have taken responsibilities for that.. that's why I started the individual 'counselling' with him.. the last two sessions were quite productive... Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 I'm sorry Lizzie, and I really mean this to be funny.... I agree.. and I have taken responsibilities for that.. that's why I started the individual 'counselling' with him.. the last two sessions were quite productive... Makes me picture Willie Nelson as a drug and alcohol rehabilitation counselor. :D :D :D Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 I'm sorry Lizzie, and I really mean this to be funny.... Makes me picture Willie Nelson as a drug and alcohol rehabilitation counselor. :D :D :D Those who have a lot of experience are the best counsellors ..no?? Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 I agree.. and I have taken responsibilities for that.. that's why I started the individual 'counselling' with him.. the last two sessions were quite productive... His behaviour is his behaviour. You can't counsel him through this, he needs a professional to help him do this. Having an affair with him isn't going to change him in the sense of him being nicer and more respectful to his girlfriend. You aren't trained in dealing with that stuff. I don't mean that meanly, I just know from my own personal experience a Therapist is the one who can do the trick. Talking to friends, posting on boards will only help for so long...He has to face his own personal demons and do the changes for himself, not for you. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 His behaviour is his behaviour. You can't counsel him through this, he needs a professional to help him do this. Having an affair with him isn't going to change him in the sense of him being nicer and more respectful to his girlfriend. You aren't trained in dealing with that stuff. I don't mean that meanly, I just know from my own personal experience a Therapist is the one who can do the trick. Talking to friends, posting on boards will only help for so long...He has to face his own personal demons and do the changes for himself, not for you. WWIU.. have you ever been in therapy... seriously, have you? I've been 6 years in therapy.. with many many therapists, psychologists, psychiatrists... I was hospitalized... I know therapists... Are they good.. most aren't ... anyone can be therapist.. I have studied in Specialized Education... I worked with young criminals... I know it's different.. but my point.. is ... sometimes friends can do much better than some therapists.. Link to post Share on other sites
Mustang Sally Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Hey - I just wanted to say "thanks," Lizzie, for supplying a pic in your profile of that bod that you've been describing to us here at LS for awhile now. You know what they say - a picture is worth a thousand words, no? And I hope it works out for you with the counseling of the younger guy. I think you can offer him a perspective on love and life that he likely won't be able to find anywhere else. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Yes, I did therapy (CBT) for when I was dx with an anxiety disorder. Trust me, no friend or forum could fix me. Sure, they helped, but it took a trained therapist who specialized with anxiety to help me understand my fears of death, my fears of whatever else and learn how to cope with them, as well as teach me techniques to handle the anxiety in general. I was extremely lucky and had a wonderful T. I know some people have had bad experiences with some therapists, but when you find the right one, therapy works amazing! sometimes friends can do much better than some therapists.. For a while yes, but a friend isn't a trained professional. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 just wanted to say "thanks," Lizzie, for supplying a pic in your profile of that bod that you've been describing to us here at LS for awhile now She knows which picture I like........Purple BB (Bosom buddy!)hehe.. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 Hey - I just wanted to say "thanks," Lizzie, for supplying a pic in your profile of that bod that you've been describing to us here at LS for awhile now. You know what they say - a picture is worth a thousand words, no? And I hope it works out for you with the counseling of the younger guy. I think you can offer him a perspective on love and life that he likely won't be able to find anywhere else. Thank you.. MS.. I honestly think I can give him something out of my own experience.. I really do.. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 OK...so now I've got a serious question. What would you "teach" or "counsel him to do"? How, specifically, do you intend to provide therapy to him? With what goal or proposed outcome? Therapy without a goal or plan is the main reason most therapists are ineffective. In all honesty, I have trouble seeing you as providing marriage counseling, given your view on infidelity and your "second job". Or would your counseling not include anything to do with cheating? What are you going to 'counsel' him to do? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 OK...so now I've got a serious question. What would you "teach" or "counsel him to do"? How, specifically, do you intend to provide therapy to him? With what goal or proposed outcome? Therapy without a goal or plan is the main reason most therapists are ineffective. In all honesty, I have trouble seeing you as providing marriage counseling, given your view on infidelity and your "second job". Or would your counseling not include anything to do with cheating? What are you going to 'counsel' him to do? Sorry Owl.. but I cannot discuss my client oops patient.. this is confidential.. Link to post Share on other sites
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