Is Porn A Reflection On How Men See Women?

[mental_traveller]

 

I have to say that it is true in some cases (female traffiking, slavery, polygamy) that women are used by men as sexual objects.. but I also think that in some cases.. women are using men as well...

 

When a woman gets big bucks for sex (on HER terms, WHEN she wants, etc.).. who's using who?

 

The owner of a bunch of porn sites was once asked "Aren't you exploiting vulnerable young women with poor career prospects?" and replied "No, we're exploiting horny middle-aged men with credit cards".

[mental_traveller]

I think you're missing the point of her question. And she never said a word about strip clubs or paying for it or whatever.

 

When you watch bj porn and the guy is telling her over and over, "suck it bitch, yeah, take my cock, take it" and then he cums in her face, is that a reflection of how you think of women in real life? That you'd like to be able to do that with a woman yourself and that you'd think of her in a "suck it bitch" kind of way?

 

Does porn reveal how men think of women?

 

That's the question.

 

If in a gay porno, a gay porn actor is saying "suck it bitch" to the other gay, does that mean he is a homophobe, is that how he thinks of men "in real life"? That he'd be able to do that to a man himself and that he'd think of him in a "suck it bitch" kind of way?

 

What if it's a woman saying "lick my heel, wimp" to a guy. Does that mean she is a man-hater in real life?

 

Hopefully you can see how stupid this whole line of reasoning is now. This way of thinking is pure feminazi tripe, assuming that only bad, evil misogynist hetero men could possibly have any such feelings, and that any kind of dominance in sexual behaviour is a manifestation of male heterosexual patriarchal oppression. Despite the fact that gay men and women, and hetero woman ALSO have these feelings and act them out (and have them represented in porn), it's only the straight guys who get criticised for it. Typical 70s feminazi codswallop, an excuse for gratuitous man-bashing.

Edited April 1, 2008 by mental_traveller

[mental_traveller]

K, now contrast that with a woman saying "lick it, jerkwad, lick my cunt".

 

I'll guarantee there aren't many women who think of men and sex that way on a regular basis, much less have ever actually uttered something like that during sex, nor do they fantasize about doing so or watch porn where that happens pretty much all the time.

 

It's a very different mindset. Women don't often have a degrading view of men when it comes to sex. While men do VERY often as its shown in porn. So do they VERY often think of women that way in real life too?

 

Some women think exactly like that. You need to get out more.

[mental_traveller]

Types of porn? Let's see. There's the porn where:

 

- girls give pizza delivery guys blowjobs as tips

- girls get pulled over by policemen and have sex with them to get out of tickets

- a bunch of guys have sex with one girl and cum all over her and in her

- bukkake porn

- girl has sex with a bunch of guys in (pick one): sports team locker room, frat party, the office, etc.

- girl is late on her rent and pays the landlord with sex

- golden showers porn

- bdsm...which, oddly enough, is usually the only kind of porn where the submissive is in control

- double penetrations

- the latest fad: ass to mouth

- etc.

 

which of these is not degrading to women?

 

None. When a guy is watching this stuff, he is jerking off, not writing a political thesis on the role of women in society.

 

Besides, there is porn of gay men and women doing this to each other, and women doing it to men too. So your whole argument is shot down.

[mental_traveller]

That's hilarious!

 

Porn does degrade women. There's no doubt that it does.

 

If there was no doubt about it, then we would all be agreeing with you. We aren't agreeing, so clearly there is doubt.

 

Explain how gay porn degrades women, for example. Or soft porn of the "made for women/couples" variety. Or any kind of porn where the woman is portrayed as being in control.

 

Also, how is it "hilarious" to insult two posters on this board by claiming they have a degrading view of women, using only their sexual tastes as evidence? That is putting the cart before the horse, since the whole point of this thread is to ask that question - not to assume, a priori, that it is true. Your statement (and NoraJane's) is an outrageous personal slander against these two individuals.

[Trialbyfire]

If there was no doubt about it, then we would all be agreeing with you. We aren't agreeing, so clearly there is doubt.

 

Explain how gay porn degrades women, for example. Or soft porn of the "made for women/couples" variety. Or any kind of porn where the woman is portrayed as being in control.

 

Also, how is it "hilarious" to insult two posters on this board by claiming they have a degrading view of women, using only their sexual tastes as evidence? That is putting the cart before the horse, since the whole point of this thread is to ask that question - not to assume, a priori, that it is true. Your statement (and NoraJane's) is an outrageous personal slander against these two individuals.

That is your personal opinion. If I supported a feminist movement that filmed men in cages (so it's make believe of course), getting force fed doggy-doo, with leashes around their necks, while a group of feminist women sat around and cheered them on, would you find this degrading to men or would you say, hey, let live, with a big cheerful smile?

[Trialbyfire]

I'll give you my honest opinion about porn. I couldn't give a flying frack about it. I find the men and particularly the women, morons for getting involved in the skin industry. Anyone who's willing to literally bend over for money like that, should get it hard up the anal canal. STDs anyone?

 

If men want to wank off to it, go for it, but do it on your own time and behind closed doors. Just don't show it to me, because it only makes me laugh at the sheer stupidity and poor acting or it will make me walk away in disgust.

 

[/end of rant]

[mental_traveller]

No man would consider it a justifiaction for a woman to use a man just for the wealth he can provide her. How many men would like to see women use men based on money? Would that sit well with men if even your own SO liked to see men called names and used for shallow reasons about what *he* can give *her*.

 

 

I think it's entirely justified for a woman to use a man for the wealth he can provide, so long as she is upfront about it, and he is cool with the arrangement.

 

Equally, I think it's entirely justified to enjoy shooting your load on your girlfriend's face and calling her bitch or whore, as long as she enjoys it too. If she hates it, then it's out of line - just like using a guy for money if he hates being used for money.

 

Consent is the standard - not your personal sexual & political hangups.

[mental_traveller]

I'll give you my honest opinion about porn. I couldn't give a flying frack about it. I find the men and particularly the women, morons for getting involved in the skin industry. Anyone who's willing to literally bend over for money like that, should get it hard up the anal canal. STDs anyone?

 

If men want to wank off to it, go for it, but do it on your own time and behind closed doors. Just don't show it to me, because it only makes me laugh at the sheer stupidity and poor acting or it will make me walk away in disgust.

 

[/end of rant]

 

So now the truth comes out - you personally find porn disgusting. Why not just admit that in the first place, and say "Guys I find porn gross and pathetic, so I am in no position to give an objective comment on this matter. Enjoy discussing the subject amongst yourselves."

 

Instead you went round pontificating on what men really feel about women as people, based on nothing more than what particular visual fantasies make their dicks hard.

[Trialbyfire]

So now the truth comes out - you personally find porn disgusting. Why not just admit that in the first place, and say "Guys I find porn gross and pathetic, so I am in no position to give an objective comment on this matter. Enjoy discussing the subject amongst yourselves."

 

Instead you went round pontificating on what men really feel about women as people, based on nothing more than what particular visual fantasies make their dicks hard.

I can see all kinds of objectivity coming out in your post...

 

For some reason, you're very attached to porn and if so, you're unable to give an objective opinion, as such. Pot, kettle, black. Own it.

[mental_traveller]

That is your personal opinion. If I supported a feminist movement that filmed men in cages (so it's make believe of course), getting force fed doggy-doo, with leashes around their necks, while a group of feminist women sat around and cheered them on, would you find this degrading to men or would you say, hey, let live, with a big cheerful smile?

 

No I wouldn't find it degrading to men, except in the context of the scene. In other words, in a general sense I would not find it degrading at all. In the context of the scene, of course it is degrading - that is the whole point (and why some people would find it hot - women AND men).

 

There's plenty of female domination porn featuring that and worse - I don't think it implies any anti-male views at all. As long as it is consensual than I would be happy that they feel able to indulge their particular sexual tastes and do it on a purely sexual basis, without people like you and jerseyshortie haranguing them for their presumed hostile attitudes towards the male sex. You know, maybe they just get a kick out of it? Maybe they have 100% respect for men, but just happen to find it hot to tie them up. Kind of like men can find it hot to throw a woman on the bed and be dominant with her too. How about we stop gratuitiously assuming that people's sexual tastes have anything to do with their social, political, or gender views, and are solely driven by what turns them on?

 

Have you ever stopped to wonder why men do not go around whining about the evils of female domination porn (or gay porn, since it's also guy on the "receiving end")? Why don't use guys complain, write theses, and form pressure groups to harangue dominatrixes for shoving needles into men's balls or whipping their asses red raw, or porn movies where some guy gets raped in prison by the butch guards? Why is it only women complaining about supposed "degrading" pornography? Maybe it's because men actually have a healthy and sensible perspective on life, sex, and porn, and realise that it's just about getting off and indulging a fantasy, and otherwise has nothing whatsoever to do with the real world? Thank heavens some women actually have a sane, measured, and rational perspective on all of this.

[mental_traveller]

I can see all kinds of objectivity coming out in your post...

 

For some reason, you're very attached to porn and if so, you're unable to give an objective opinion, as such. Pot, kettle, black. Own it.

 

On the contrary, I rarely watch porn, I prefer the real thing.

[Trialbyfire]

No I wouldn't find it degrading to men, except in the context of the scene. In other words, in a general sense I would not find it degrading at all. In the context of the scene, of course it is degrading - that is the whole point (and why some people would find it hot - women AND men).

 

There's plenty of female domination porn featuring that and worse - I don't think it implies any anti-male views at all. As long as it is consensual than I would be happy that they feel able to indulge their particular sexual tastes and do it on a purely sexual basis, without people like you and jerseyshortie haranguing them for their presumed hostile attitudes towards the male sex. You know, maybe they just get a kick out of it? Maybe they have 100% respect for men, but just happen to find it hot to tie them up. Kind of like men can find it hot to throw a woman on the bed and be dominant with her too. How about we stop gratuitiously assuming that people's sexual tastes have anything to do with their social, political, or gender views, and are solely driven by what turns them on?

 

Have you ever stopped to wonder why men do not go around whining about the evils of female domination porn (or gay porn, since it's also guy on the "receiving end")? Why don't use guys complain, write theses, and form pressure groups to harangue dominatrixes for shoving needles into men's balls or whipping their asses red raw, or porn movies where some guy gets raped in prison by the butch guards? Why is it only women complaining about supposed "degrading" pornography? Maybe it's because men actually have a healthy and sensible perspective on life, sex, and porn, and realise that it's just about getting off and indulging a fantasy, and otherwise has nothing whatsoever to do with the real world? Thank heavens some women actually have a sane, measured, and rational perspective on all of this.

See, you and I differ from this perspective. I would find it degrading to men and be disgusted by it. I don't need to accept or condone it but I can ignore it, if it's legal.

 

My overall attitude towards porn is more contemptuous, than anything else. This is probably why I find it non-threatening, if a partner finds it hot. As long as it remains in the realm of fantasy, I personally don't care if he wants to indulge in it, as long as it's legal. Anything involving pedophilia, pain or death, would find me gone in a heartbeat. I could never stay with someone with a truly sick mind.

[mental_traveller]

And I question men's respect for women that can claim he really does respect women but loves watching "Hot College B*tches Get Ejaculated On". There is a huge contradiction to that.

 

 

Honest question - where's the contradiction?

 

Let's say a gay man loves watching "Hot frat boys get ejaculated on" - does that mean he doesn't have any respect for men? Plenty of gay men who watch porn seem to have a healthy amount of self-respect. That seems to totally contradict your assumption.

 

You start with a correct observation - some men like to watch women being dominated/controlled/"abused" in a sexual context. You then make two totally flawed assumptions. First, you assume this is only a male on women thing. Wrong - gay men like watching other men get "abused"; some women like watching men, or women, get "abused". So it is a human vs human thing, not male over women.

 

Secondly, you assume that enjoying watching someone get "abused" in a sexual context means that the viewer actually feels that the entire gender of that person is inferior and that the viewer looks down on them in general, in all contexts outside the isolated case of one piece of porn. But you provide no evidence whatsoever why being turned on by sex involving dominance should imply any attitudes outside the sexual arena. Someone could be a sexist ******* in the real world, but like a woman being in charge in bed. Someone could enjoy dominating women in bed, and be totally respectful and a gentleman outside the bedroom. To use an analogy, lots of people (mostly men, but some women too) like watching fights, such as boxing or UFC. Does that mean they see men just as punching bags, or as "fighting objects"? Of course not. It just means they enjoy watching a good fight. Similarly, lots of men (and some women) enjoy watching a good f*ck, or even a good abusive f*ck. Nothing else is implied about the role of women or men, beyond that.

[mental_traveller]

See, you and I differ from this perspective. I would find it degrading to men and be disgusted by it. I don't need to accept or condone it but I can ignore it, if it's legal.

 

My overall attitude towards porn is more contemptuous, than anything else. This is probably why I find it non-threatening, if a partner finds it hot. As long as it remains in the realm of fantasy, I personally don't care if he wants to indulge in it, as long as it's legal. Anything involving pedophilia, pain or death, would find me gone in a heartbeat. I could never stay with someone with a truly sick mind.

 

Why is it degrading to me if some other guy likes playing Gimp for a night? I am not him, he is not me - the only thing we have in common is that we both have a penis. If he wants to get treated like a dog then that's his business, I am not sure how it reflects on me at all. Also, bear in mind that the guy is consenting to this, just like women consent to star in porn films. I don't really see how it can be viewed as degrading to half the human race what two or three people consent to do to each other of their own free will.

 

Also, I'd ask do your attitudes become negative only when something is filmed? Let's say some couple like acting out that scenario in the privacy of their home, and they are both doing it because it turns them on - is it still degrading to an entire gender? Perhaps you could explain by what process private sexual activity becomes a public and political matter?

[Trialbyfire]

Why is it degrading to me if some other guy likes playing Gimp for a night? I am not him, he is not me - the only thing we have in common is that we both have a penis. If he wants to get treated like a dog then that's his business, I am not sure how it reflects on me at all. Also, bear in mind that the guy is consenting to this, just like women consent to star in porn films. I don't really see how it can be viewed as degrading to half the human race what two or three people consent to do to each other of their own free will.

 

Also, I'd ask do your attitudes become negative only when something is filmed? Let's say some couple like acting out that scenario in the privacy of their home, and they are both doing it because it turns them on - is it still degrading to an entire gender? Perhaps you could explain by what process private sexual activity becomes a public and political matter?

My point exactly. Keep in the bedroom. I'm not a voyeur.

[mental_traveller]

My point exactly. Keep in the bedroom. I'm not a voyeur.

 

But we can't - just look at this thread, where several woman posters are trying to claim that men who watch porn are misogynists who want to abuse and control women, just because they find a bit of mild domination arousing.

[Trialbyfire]

But we can't - just look at this thread, where several woman posters are trying to claim that men who watch porn are misogynists who want to abuse and control women, just because they find a bit of mild domination arousing.

Then I suggest you take it up with them. I will neither defend or condone porn but I can ignore it, and using your phrase, as long as it's being enacted/acted by consenting adults.

 

I do encourage women not to be threatened by it, as long as it remains in the land of fantasy and doesn't become an addiction. Once porn starts to intrude into real life, such as your man believing you should act like a porn star, and you disagree, don't be afraid to tell him to "suck it", himself.

[shadowofman]

Once porn starts to intrude into real life, such as your man believing you should act like a porn star, and you disagree, don't be afraid to tell him to "suck it", himself.

 

Well that is not really porn intruding is it. Porn is an example of sex. If a person wants their partner to act a certain way sexually, they have ever right to disagree and refuse. Not all couples are sexually compatible. Not the fault of pornography.

 

Some people may use porn as an example of what sort of sex turns them on, but that is not the fault of the medium.

[directx]

" Is Porn A Reflection On How Men See Women?"

Yes. For those next few moments, it surely is.

[demrea]

i read all 10 pages ... this might be my first ever post?

 

it is clear the OP is going to go through life not trusting men and while her points have some intelectual value, they are simpy her own justifications for how she views the world.

 

porn can degrade women, so what. what makes women so special that they cant be degraded or vice versa? life isnt fair, people arent always treated fairly and yet the choices you make will deterime the value you get from your life experiance.

 

id say get over it, but i dont think the OP wants to. if it wasnt porn, it would be some other reason why men cant be trusted. frankly, i dont think men or women can be trusted, but life goes on nonetheless.

 

interesting thread, i feel sorry for the OP going through life so angry.

Edited April 2, 2008 by demrea

[norajane]

Have you ever stopped to wonder why men do not go around whining about the evils of female domination porn (or gay porn, since it's also guy on the "receiving end")? Why don't use guys complain, write theses, and form pressure groups to harangue dominatrixes for shoving needles into men's balls or whipping their asses red raw, or porn movies where some guy gets raped in prison by the butch guards?

 

Maybe because it's men who are watching that porn and getting turned on by it?

[norajane]

But we can't - just look at this thread, where several woman posters are trying to claim that men who watch porn are misogynists who want to abuse and control women, just because they find a bit of mild domination arousing.

 

So, ultimately, your answer to the OP's question is that NO, porn is not a reflection of how men see women in real life. Or that yes, it is a reflection of what men find erotic in their real sex lives but is harmless as long as their actual sex acts with real partners are consensual.

 

That's fair, it's your view, and that's what the OP wanted to know.

 

You can see, I hope, that it's not so outlandish to ask the question, or to wonder how porn/reality are linked in a man's mind? How would women know if we don't ask?

[annieo]

The reason why some women get a little touchy about porn, especially porn where woman are degraded, is because women have actually been second-class citizens in the not too recent past. A hundred years ago, I wouldn't have been able to vote, get into certain university programs, etc.. Women are raped much more often than men. Women are abused/killed by SOs much more often than men are.

When you are the member of a group that has been discriminated against, in this case due to their gender, anything that smacks of putting that group "back into their place" hits a lot of raw nerves. If there was a lot of slavery porn that white people got off to, well, I'd see a major backlash.

[shadowofman]

Slavery porn, I've seen some. I have also seen Nazi Dominatrix/Jewish Submissive. It's all very campy. Some people like the dominate POV in live sex or porn and some people like the Submissive POV. The gender is irrelevant.