Is Porn A Reflection On How Men See Women?

[Trialbyfire]

I don't personally care for or about porn, on a daily basis. As previously mentioned, if a guy has to do his thing, do it on his own time and away from me.

 

Having said that, nj, you'll have to forgive me for saying that I feel Nancy Friday, is full of...it... She's soft-selling the concept, to make it more palateable. If you think about Nancy Friday, ever single kind of sexuality, is acceptable and encouraged by her.

 

...and if we are using our broad brush strokers the same thing has to be said for young women who are just as superficially inclined as men...

I won't dispute your broad brush stroke comment, at all. Youth requires tempering...

Edited March 23, 2008 by Trialbyfire

[norajane]

Having said that, nj, you'll have to forgive me for saying that I feel Nancy Friday, is full of...it... She's soft-selling the concept, to make it more palateable. If you think about Nancy Friday, ever single kind of sexuality, is acceptable and encouraged by her.

 

Agreed, but somewhere between the total hard-sell view and the soft-sell view, is the reality. It doesn't hurt to consider her perspective, especially if one is fully entrenched in the opposite view.

[Trialbyfire]

Agreed, but somewhere between the total hard-sell view and the soft-sell view, is the reality. It doesn't hurt to consider her perspective, especially if one is fully entrenched in the opposite view.

I do agree with this, especially since there's a diversity of people, in that some are extremists, where the vast majority of people fall somewhere in between.

 

I will add once again, that porn is tasteless.

[Trimmer]

Nobody can give her that reassurance, because nobody can speak for an entire gender. All I can contribute to this is that I understand her aversion to the notion of violent porn, and that I don't believe that in makes her a wrong or malfunctioning person. Far from it, in my view - but naturally I'm biased in that regard.

 

The difficulty is that she's advanced towards associating the misogyny of some porn with your average guy in the street (eg the man with his family). The more she dwells on that, the more she'll start seeing that misogynistic bogeyman in various peaceful individuals who - like Storyrider's Dad, enjoy watching certain things on the screen that they would never participate in real life.

I agree - these statements summarize my views very nicely (whether or not I am doing a sufficient stating my views clearly... )

 

Perhaps what is disturbing about porn, is the truth that men sometimes fantasize about and crave sexual outlets where real female emotion (and their own emotion) is extracted because it is burdensome. The idea that a non-emotional, empty connection would be a relief to men is a hard one to swallow (no pun). That seems like what porn is, a vacation for the man from the emotional aspects that pervade RL sex. Apparently at times, and for some men, emotion is a swamp they must forge their way through to get to the sex.

And I don't introduce this as a lever in our current discussion - just an aside, but apparently at times, and for some women, sex is a swamp they must forge their way through to get to the emotion.

 

I don't know how old the OP is but I will use some broad brush strokes myself, in that many younger men are more superficially inclined, lacking depth. They haven't been finely tempered by time or experience. Perhaps this is the environment the OP is accustomed to.

 

...and if we are using our broad brush strokers the same thing has to be said for young women who are just as superficially inclined as men...but I don't think it is right to say that about either sexes as we are just generalising here...

And still even with the broad strokes that each of you are using in the two quotes above, I still get the sense that you know that these stereotypes, while based in reality, are not representative of all individuals in the group, as TBF reinforces here:

I do agree with this, especially since there's a diversity of people, in that some are extremists, where the vast majority of people fall somewhere in between.

I don't get the sense that the OP recognizes that same diversity of individuals, or at least that the intensity of her alarm over the subject is preventing her from being relieved by the fact that such a diversity exists.

 

I will add once again, that porn is tasteless.

Must. stay. serious.... Do not..... suggest..... eating pineapple. Aaugh! I couldn't hold it back. (Oops... so many opportunities for double entendre here...)

[Taramere]

And one of the perspectives she has is that when men are cumming all over those fantasy women, and doing all these things we might see as degrading, it often stems from men's need/desire to be fully ACCEPTED by their women. Take my cum, take my cock = accept ME.

 

And when you look at it from that perspective, it's less degrading and disturbing than it is maybe needy or eager to please, or even a little sad as it portrays buried anger and frustration at not being accepted or at their sexuality being judged.

 

Reminds me of the old flake adverts somehow. I picture an overweight woman watching....dreaming of a chocolate-covered, chocolate bearing boyfriend with a penis made of solid milk chocolate...hammering on the door, eager to satisfy all her physical and emotional desires. Anxious to tell her that she's at her sexiest and most adorable when cramming a family sized bar of Galaxy down her gullet.

 

In the room next door is a husband or boyfriend, equally obese, chomping on pizza as he feasts on Internet porn and curses fatty next door for preferring her chocolate bars to his cum.

 

Each consumed by their own needs, and comforting themselves with narcissistic fantasies of an uncritical, all-accepting partner that are making them less and less acceptable to eachother. Convincing themselves that porn and chocolate are all they really need...until it gets to the stage where nothing else is possible. Unless they learn positive ways of encouraging the changes they seek in eachother....and giving a bit of the love and acceptance they seek for themselves

Edited March 23, 2008 by Taramere

[Green]

I enjoyed that one poster tried to make a connection between people who enjoy violent movies and porn. Just because some one enjoys violence in a movie, does not mean they are a bad person, well atleast in my opinion. There is a great book that deals specificaly with peoples phantasies and actual violence. The book is called killing monsters. Statisticaly our market has never had more violent images avialable yet crime rate has dropped consideralby, and people who watch violent images suposedly arnt more likely to comit violent crime. I wonder if with all this porn now becoming available if men respect women more or less

[JerseyShortie]

There is so much I want to respond to so bare with me. But first I would like to thank NoraJane for her comments! I agree and appreciated with alot of what you had to say and you are very well written!

 

Quite a bit of the responses side step the intial question and bring up other issues and topics to deflect what the orginal topic is about. I value everyone's responses, man or woman, but I'd like the focus to remain on the topic and not about my personal issues or areas that men are degraded. I am aware that men can be degraded as well and have an interest in talking about that but that is for another thread. Lets focus this one on the orginal context.

 

IpAncA:

I feel women are portrayed the way they are portrayed in various types of porn for a reason. I'll leave it at that...

 

Thank you for the response IpAnca, but I would appreciate a more elaborate response. This really isn't very helpful.

 

 

Lovelybird:

The bad influence of porn is very subtle but will enlarge to other areas besides physical, it is not merely a "fantacy of sex", it will influence how a man treat a woman, how a woman think of her self worth.

 

 

I agree and we already see signs of it. Certain sex acts that use to be taboo, are now sex acts that 12 year olds know about. I also think that there is a deficit of girls and women alike that feel a lack of self worth. And maybe men struggle with this as well, and porn makes them feel more incontrol of their own sexuality. But I think both sexes end up paying a price in the long run. Despite the short term pleasure I am aware that porn brings.

 

 

KMT:

you are definetly naive when it comes to all this.............I also enjoy seeing the stuff that you probably find disrespectful like when they c*m in the girls face

 

 

KMT, thank you for your response.And it would be great if I had asked "Men, what do you like seeing in porn." But I didn't ask that. I asked if porn was in part how men view women, how men want to treat women. On some vernacular level it does seem to hold a truth for alot of men. I will also add, how do men expect women to feel or act knowing that some men likes to see women degraded on some level?

 

Woggle:

You have to break it down into certain types. Besides there is nothing wrong with a little fantasy misogyny for a man as a form of therapy. I have a misogynistic songs tracklist on my iPod and it helps when I am in one of my moods so I imagine degrading porn is the same. Also Oprah and Lifetime are way more hateful towards men than porn is to women.

 

NoraJane did a nice job of breaking down different things seen in porn that do appear to be very much degrading. Some are quite shocking. I don't know one man that would like a man being called names, getting fisted, smacked around, or spraying on his face; by a woman; to the extent it appears many men like to do in the return to women. Or maybe we should take examples closer to the heart of what hurts men more? Using men for their bank accounts? Degrading their masculinty? Calling them "fag"..."*******"..."pig"?

 

My point is, as a man think of the things that make you feel degraded as a man, and think of the things that are shallow reasons why a woman would use a man, and not like him for him, and over exploit it in mediums that degrade men, and there you have what pornography can mean for alot of women.

 

I also think that if you think there is nothing wrong with a little woman-hating porn or song to relieve a stress, you aren't really releaving a stress. It is only adding to your already negative thoughts about women. As for Oprah, I've never seen her degrade men or call them names. But if you have proof to back that up, do share. Funny how you find Oprah offensive, a woman that has given much of her time and money to help men and women alike, but you don't find misgonistic porn offensive.

 

 

 

Trimmer:

You know, it so often gets characterized using the "madonna/whore" terminology, as if it's some kind of travesty, but is there anything wrong with hoping for a multi-dimensional partner? Why would a desire for a multi-dimensional partner characterized as a bad thing?

 

 

I agree, having a multi-dimensional partner is fantastic. But this has nothing to do with the topic about porn, women, men and how men think of women. I also think that the "madonna/whore" terminology is used to describe men who see their wife as a madonna and there for can not be sexual with her. It is not used to describe how men want a wild cat in bed and a sweet lady on the outside.

 

Taramere:

As porn becomes more mainstream and used by women as well as men, the hardcore stuff has to become more and more nasty in order to retain that "men only" aura.

 

 

That is an interesting theory. I always also thought it has alot to do that like a drug, you need a more potent formula if you use the drug for a period of time, other wise it doesn't have the same effect. I have also read articles and heard porn producers say this themselves.

 

 

Nocturnal:

Porn is a visual stimulus, much like the "trash novels" women read are a intellectual stimulus both with the same reason for existing but tailored for the difference in the sexes approach to sex. Men are much more visual, we get much more aroused by the look of a woman than what is inside her skull, if we're talking plain raw sexual arousal, not a long term comitted relationship, mind you. When we watch sex, we're objectifying what we see and become aroused by the images flashing by, it is reptilian in essence.

 

 

I never find romance novels to be a fair comparsion to porn. Romance novels, while more classicaly appealing to women, is more comparable to video games, something more classically appealing to men. I do know women who read romance novels, but I don't know one of them that mastrubate to it. And we have discussed it.

 

Most "trashy novels" don't depict men in disrespectful ways either. The characters are faceless. The titles are never "DeepPocket Bill Buys Manlos".."A**hole Lumberjacks"....Mildly funny but true to the titles of what porn movies use to describe women.

 

 

Woogle

I would rather my wife look at porn than watch Oprah or go to feminist meetings yet if a man takes an issue with those things he is controlling.

 

 

Of course you would. Because porn caters to men's needs and desires and puts men in the position of power, not degrading men to the same degree it can often degrade women. So naturally, men are okay with women looking at porn. It is more in-tune to what *he* likes.

 

Storyrider:

My dad always says he is completely aware that the film violence is fabricated and unreal, and that he is able to enjoy it as entertainment because of that fact. In real life my father is a peaceful person, doesn't own any guns, hunt, or anything like that. He views the violent action as pure fantasy and would be disgusted to see, let alone participate in anything like that in real life.

 

I can understand your point in relating the two. The thing is, that with porn it strikes much more closely between the relationships and sexual nature between men and women. Which simply a violent movie won't do. And most people that watch Bruce Willis jump out of a building from the 10 floor, while fantasy, don't actually want to do it. Alot of men that see a woman have her face cummed on and called a slut, do have an interest in physically doing it in the real world. Often the argument that people use to defend porn is: "It gives me ideas on what to do." Most people watching a violent film, just don't say the same thing.

 

 

Tarmara:

The difficulty is that she's advanced towards associating the misogyny of some porn with your average guy in the street (eg the man with his family). The more she dwells on that, the more she'll start seeing that misogynistic bogeyman in various peaceful individuals

 

 

Unfortunetly, this is true. It's because I know most men look at porn. Ergo, since I think most porn carries varying degress of misogyny, many men are misognostic to varying extents.

 

 

She also provides analysis of the common types of fantasies. And one of the perspectives she has is that when men are cumming all over those fantasy women, and doing all these things we might see as degrading, it often stems from men's need/desire to be fully ACCEPTED by their women. Take my cum, take my cock = accept ME.

 

And when you look at it from that perspective, it's less degrading and disturbing than it is maybe needy or eager to please, or even a little sad as it portrays buried anger and frustration at not being accepted or at their sexuality being judged.

 

How many people think this is true? That is kind of interesting and never thought about it like that.

[Trimmer]

Well, out of respect for the OP's desire to swing things back directly on topic here, I will say that I can't reliably answer for all men any more than the OP can reliably speculate about the motivations of all men. I can only answer for myself. So I've given it some more consideration, and incorporated the thoughts that have been discussed here in this thread, and here's a direct, non-sidestepping answer to your original question:

 

Is porn a reflection on how I see women?

 

Yes.

 

Surprised?

 

Let me qualify. As I have said, the porn that I have seen that arouses me involves partners who are portrayed as being intimate and responsive to each other in a respectful way. The one fundamental thing I can describe that divides what arouses me from "the rest" (and there's a lot of "the rest") is that the moment I believe I perceive either partner being disrespected, abused, or not enjoying the activities, I tune out.

 

Frankly, I like seeing a woman get off in a way that I could imagine participating in, (and maybe more adventurous ways that I'd like to participate in, but haven't tried yet.) I want her to want sex with me - yes, maybe with a single-minded abandon. But I have absolutely no desire - or even unlived fantasy - to degrade or disprespect a woman sexually or otherwise, or push her beyond her comfort boundary for my own pleasure.

 

Now, can you believe that, or do you think, just like the guy you see out with his family, that since I'm a man, and since porn exists, that in my true heart, I must really want to degrade women?

 

Again, I'm not claiming I speak for all men - I'm sure I don't, because I acknowledge that there is certainly plenty of porn out there that falls outside my interest, that frankly disgusts me (just read norajane's list) that certainly does attract some men's attention. I just don't know that the one concept of "porn" can be used to characterize every man, and I believe that's what the OP is doing, when she says: because of porn, I can't trust men.

 

I will also add, how do men expect women to feel or act knowing that some men likes to see women degraded on some level?

What women feel and expect as a group, as a population demographic, is interesting to discuss, but I don't let it paralyze me in my daily life. Instead, in my own life, I deal with women personally as unique individuals. As an individual, I 'expect' to show a woman, and for her to know by my actions, that I have no interest in degrading her, and that our relationship doesn't sway under the weight of what "some men" like to see.

 

And while I understand your point that:

I'd like the focus to remain on the topic and not about my personal issues...

...when you introduce your personal issues as support for your premise...

It's completely dispressing and makes it hard for me to trust men.

Sometimes when I am out in public I will see a man with his family and think: "that guy probably watches porn of S*ut Cheerleaders From Wisconsin 5". And it's a completely let down of respect to his wife and family in general, for me at least that's how I see it.

...I think it opens your personal issues up to questions. I think it unfair to say "I claim this is so because I just feel that way" and then when we take the opportunity to explore "well, why do you feel that way?" to declare that discussion to be out of bounds.

 

It may be your issue, and you may not want to discuss it, but I think it's pertinent to this topic that this is not just an intellectual discussion for you - your perception of men and women as uniform groups directly affects your life (depressing, trust, etc.) and (possibly) interferes with your ability to interact with individual men on an individual basis... And it's on-topic for me to respond that yes, of course, there are mysogynist, disrespectful, disgusting porn users out there, but it's more useful to invest your energy into your interactions with men as individuals, instead of cowering in fear and mistrust of the stereotype you believe.

 

But maybe that's for another thread, too.

[Green]

personaly I think it is demeaning to call a girl a shortie. Just kidding but I know some people see it that way though. Would I enjoy shooting a load right in a womans face, Yes and yes. Would I enjoy a woman saying suck it, or calling a woman a slut or bitch... yeah... whats your point, your the one getting depressed about all this. Did porn do this to me, maybe. You could blame rap and hiphop too though, and I'm sure thats your next thread.

[Trialbyfire]

I want to respond to so bare with me.

Was this a Freudian slip?

 

Okay, back to seriousness and the topic at hand.

 

I also think that there is a deficit of girls and women alike that feel a lack of self worth.

Is it solely porn or the entire superficial subculture that's currently evident? I think that much of this has to do with parents providing their children with sufficient backbone and self-confidence, that these girls grow up with a strong foundation of who they are.

 

Maybe the best way to avoid the situation is not to play into the stereotype of T & A is everything or being a woman who buys into the program, in any way. If the men you're dating are treating you in a demeaning fashion, then find yourself a man who also doesn't buy into the subculture, who will treat you the way you feel is acceptable.

[IpAncA]

Thank you for the response IpAnca, but I would appreciate a more elaborate response. This really isn't very helpful

 

I know it isn't helpful but I don't want to elaborate and cause some huge debate where we get infractions and the thread deleted.

 

I guess in short, I do think that it's a reflection of what some men are attracted to and since no two people are the same, I can't generalize. That's what I was talking about.

[Lizzie60]

I don't think men being 'intimidated' by intelligent women has anything to do with it...and I don't think I'm certainly not intimidated by an intelligent woman, if anything I like it!

 

...and if we are using our broad brush strokers the same thing has to be said for young women who are just as superficially inclined as men...but I don't think it is right to say that about either sexes as we are just generalising here...

 

I totally agree.. I think intelligent men love intelligent women..

The 'not-so-intelligent' or 'losers' ARE intimidated by smart women..

[JerseyShortie]

Let me qualify. As I have said, the porn that I have seen that arouses me involves partners who are portrayed as being intimate and responsive to each other in a respectful way......

 

Frankly, I like seeing a woman get off in a way that I could imagine participating in, (and maybe more adventurous ways that I'd like to participate in, but haven't tried yet.) I want her to want sex with me - yes, maybe with a single-minded abandon.

 

I have some questions for you:

1) can you give me an example of the titles of the movies you like? (err not because I want to go watch them but I am curious because most porns that I have come in contact with refer to the woman in certain ways).

2) Do you fantasize about yourself with the woman in the movie? Since you said that you want *her* to want sex with *you*.

3) How old are the women in these movies you like and how old are you?

 

 

I just don't know that the one concept of "porn" can be used to characterize every man....

 

I guess it depends also on how you define "degrading". As a man, what would you consider a degrading way a man could be treated?

 

I just know that most men look at porn. I also know that even the degrading porn out there seems to be something most people are aware of. Which means it is out there and easy to see and someone is watching it, alot of someones if there is alot out there of it.

 

I look at these men with familes, they have wives, daughters, mothers; and at the end of the day when things are quite, they are going to watch Sl*tty Cheerleaders. Or whatever porn of their choice. Porn seems to be the white elephant in the room and something that seems to be just as important to men has their own women and familes.

 

 

Did porn do this to me, maybe. You could blame rap and hiphop too though, and I'm sure thats your next thread.

 

Not my next thread but rap can be really disgusting towards women.

 

 

Would I enjoy shooting a load right in a womans face, Yes and yes. Would I enjoy a woman saying suck it, or calling a woman a slut or bitch... yeah... whats your point, your the one getting depressed about all this.....

 

I thought my point was clear? That these actions obviously are meant to be degrading in some way. If if men like degrading women in porn, that it is partly a reflection of how they feel about women. And as a woman, it can be a little depressing. After all, I highly doubt you would stand for being degraded or would enjoy seeing other men degraded and used for a woman's pleasure. And by "women's pleasure", that doesn't mean sexually. Maybe she wants to use the guy just for his money, the same way men like using women just for sex.

[Storyrider]

The most pornish (new word) sexual experience I've ever had (and it wasn't really all that degrading) was when a boyfriend wanted to spank me as part of sex. I have no idea whether he got this idea from porn or not. I wasn't very interested in being spanked (by him, anyway) and after I told him that, he did not pursue it further.

 

I have only ever had sex in loving, long-term relationships, and I never discussed porn to much of a degree with any of the men, believe it or not. So I don't know whether any of them watched porn. Every one of them was kind, respectful, and treated me as a person, not a sex object. This is my normative experience with the men I selected to date.

 

I have not been on the dating scene for 15 years though, so maybe things have changed.

[fral945]

Is it? Is porn a reflection on how men see women?

 

JerseyShortie,

 

I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but see if any of what I have to say below sinks in:

 

Yes, it is a reflection on how men see women. The two most important things you have to realize (and I can't emphasize these enough) are:

 

1) We men (myself included) are highly sexually aroused by visual stimulation

2) All the porn you see is not necessarily how all men see all women. Like everything else in life there are degrees.

 

 

The high sexual arousal from visual stimulation is strictly a male phenomenon. Yes, there are exceptions, but they are the minority and as a general rule this is true. You want to know how I know this? Because it's as true for straight men as it is for gay men. Why do you think almost all of the porn is geared towards men (whether straight or gay)? There's a plethora of straight male porn and gay male porn on the internet, but very little female porn or lesbian porn (of if there is, I'd be shocked). Ironically, the lesbian porn that is out there is probably watched by more men (myself included, lol).

 

The visual stimulation is the major part of sexual arousal for us. We're much more sexual than women, hence the abundance of porn, prostitutes, etc. Even seen an episode of COPS with a woman getting arrested for picking up a male hooker off the street? That would be laughable. Or the female preying on young boys online? I'm not included the string of female teachers in the media having sex with their students, as I think those are pretty rare cases with screwed up women and are shown on TV more for the titillation factor.

 

Obviously visual stimulation is not as important to women, or they would have loads of porn sites catering to women as well. Women seem to prefer stimulation of the mind through soap operas and romance novels. I'm no women so I won't even venture to guess why, I just know it to be the case. It apparently gives the stimulation to the female that they need which is analogous to the stimulation men get from porn. I know that all bookstores have a pretty good sized romance section and most daytime TV is soap operas or talk shows (which are like mini-soap operas many times). Companies sell and produce what consumers want, so obviously millions of women buy these novels and watch these soap operas, or they wouldn't exist.

 

Like previous posters have said, you have to get over the fact that you don't like porn, it makes you feel bad, etc. Bottom line is it exists and always will in one form or another. I don't know what your hangups are, but you'll have to figure out what they are on your own or with help (i.e., counseling). Porn, soap operas, and romance novels are all fantasies and ways of escaping reality, they have no inherent value to society. They exist for entertainment and stimulation.

[norajane]

They exist for entertainment and stimulation.

 

Jersey's asking about the content of the porn, though, not about why it exists at all. Does the content of porn, which often portrays men degrading women, reflect how men see women in general...that it's ok to use and degrade women for their own pleasure?

[fral945]

Jersey's asking about the content of the porn, though, not about why it exists at all. Does the content of porn, which often portrays men degrading women, reflect how men see women in general...that it's ok to use and degrade women for their own pleasure?

 

Yes, to a degree. Like I said previously, all the porn you see is not necessarily how all men see all women. If you see porn with women being degraded, don't assume the whole male population is like that. There's some wild stuff out there. Like everything else in life there are degrees, and there are degrees of porn. It has little to do with how I see a woman other than sexually, even if many of these degrading acts turn me on (which many do). I think someone else said it best earlier when they said men compartmentalize better than women.

 

Many women consider certain submissive roles or acts degrading. Some degrading acts are obvious (i.e., acts where people are physically hurt), while others are in a gray zone (i.e., those that cause emotional trauma). In the gray zone would be acts that some find degrading and some don't. This has a lot to do with individual morality and varies from individual to individual based on their upbringing. Certain women might find certain acts degrading (i.e. shooting a load in a woman's face, gangbangs), while others may not like it but are willing to do it because they are more submissive & want to please their partner. And there are some that might actually like these things.

 

JerseyShortie,

 

What kind of sex or sex acts do you consider degrading? And what kind is not degrading? Would you consider anything beside regular intercourse degrading? And if not, give examples of what wouldn't be. I'm just trying to get an idea where you're coming from.

[Jersey Shortie]

I know it isn't helpful but I don't want to elaborate and cause some huge debate where we get infractions and the thread deleted.

 

I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate. Otherwise, we aren't really getting anywhere in the disscusion.

 

Yes, it is a reflection on how men see women.

 

As a woman, I find that discouraging. Especially since the message most men usually tell women, to make them feel better about porn, is that they don't want them to be like what they see in the porn movies. So obviously that is inpart a lie told so that men can both view porn, and pretend he respects what a woman needs. There is a huge part of men that actually do wish women were more like that, physically in looks and action.

 

1) We men (myself included) are highly sexually aroused by visual stimulation

 

I'm aware of this. Every woman in the world is aware of this. I guess where we deverge is that when I'm told men are highly sexual and visual, it seems to be used as an excuse/justification why something out there should be able to degrade women. Which further implies to me, as a woman, that a man's needs for visual arousal are more important then respecting women. To break it down: "It's okay to objectify women, c*m in their face and do a number of other sexual acts because men are "highly sexually aroused by visual stimulation" and like it. As a woman you should just accept it and be quit. We really like women. We just like degrading them sometimes."

 

 

Do men feel as if they are "better/superior" to women? Or do men feel that their needs are more important? Because if porn is a reflection to how men feel/think/want women then I would easily thin kthat men do think they are more vaulable/better then women. ( I bold this question because this is open to any man here

 

Lets take something stereotypically done by women. Women are highly emotional creatures. But I don't think that excuses women to act in certain ways because of how emotional they can be. They might infact act in ways that often cause their SO frustration, but I think the intention is to try and not let your emotions get the best of you. And most men want women to control their emotions better at times as well.

 

2) All the porn you see is not necessarily how all men see all women. Like everything else in life there are degrees.

 

Of course not. But since most men do view porn on some level, and some of the more graphic/degrading sexual acts that have already been listed seem to be things most people here are aware of, which gives reason that alot of it is out there in the the mainstream porn world, gives site to the fact that while not "everyone" sees/does something, a fast majority do.

 

]The high sexual arousal from visual stimulation is strictly a male phenomenon

 

Again, I'm aware why men are attracted some porn. I however don't consider it a justification for it. Just as I am sure many men understand why women are attracted to wealthy men. No man would consider it a justifiaction for a woman to use a man just for the wealth he can provide her. How many men would like to see women use men based on money? Would that sit well with men if even your own SO liked to see men called names and used for shallow reasons about what *he* can give *her*.

 

The visual stimulation is the major part of sexual arousal for us. We're much more sexual than women

 

Completely false that men are more sexual them women. However, what is true that women's sexuality is defined differently from men. Your comment in itself shows how men's sexuality is celebrated, women's not as much. Unless the woman is participating in an act that is more defined by what men turn on...example:Lesbian porn. (And I'm not saying there aren't women attracted to other women. But most women don't fantasize about a cozy threesome with her, another woman and her man. ) I think also that men are more aggresive when it comes to sex, and that is mistaking for being more "sexual". But it isn't that men are more sexual, it is that women and men are turned on by different things in different ways.

 

Like previous posters have said, you have to get over the fact that you don't like porn, it makes you feel bad, etc. Bottom line is it exists and always will in one form or another. I don't know what your hangups are, but you'll have to figure out what they are on your own or with help (i.e., counseling). Porn, soap operas, and romance novels are all fantasies and ways of escaping reality, they have no inherent value to society. They exist for entertainment and stimulation.

 

I have severeal issues with your comments to me in this. You tell me I "have to get over the fact that I don't like porn". Why is it that I must get over the fact that I don't like seeing women degraded, something many of the men here admitted themselves that porn can do to women? Why do men not have to get over the fact of porn and give it up? Why is it that you make justifications for men's nature, and expect women to be the ones to acumate to men's needs? Not men needing to acclimate to women?

 

I also take issue with your "I don't know what your hangups are", comment. Maybe you did not mean it that way but it sounds as if my concerns about men and porn are downplayed to my mere silly "hangups".

 

Is porn a reflection of how men see women? If porn is, then my hangup is that men don't feel that women deserve the same amount of respect that men themselves deserve. If porn is, then my hang up is that I am disheartened that generation after generation of men will support their son's porn use, their father's porn use their grandfather's porn use over their own daugthers, mothers, sisters, wives and girlfriends. If porn is, then my hang up is that this example of how men view porn and indirectly women, makes it difficult to have faith and trust in men and their respect and honor for women.

 

How do you expect women to take porn, something that can easily degrade their own gender? How do you suggest women handle that? How do you expect women to few men, seeing their own husbands, boyfriends and other men in their family support and use pornography?I would go as far to say that there is a war on women, to be used, to not feel good enough, to be objectified; and our own men in our lives are in on it in away.

 

Look, we have all heard the comparison of porn to romance novels. But romance novels don't humilate men, call then names and do alot of things that porn does in view of women. I will say it again because no one addresses this point I make: Romance novels don't humliate men. Romance novels usally invovled the main male charcter being filled with honorable traits.

 

While romance novels are a more stereotypically female enjoyment, I don't know one woman that masturbates to it. Romance novels are a far cry from being comparable to porn. Women have nothing that treats men in the same manner that porn often depicts/treats women. Aside from this, this goes a long way in telling me why it's okay that men can degrade women in porn. romance novels have nothing to do with the topic being discussed and this seems to be another deflection to justify men's love for porn over the lack of respect the porn shows women.

 

 

"....while others may not like it but are willing to do it because they are more submissive & want to please their partner. And there are some that might actually like these things."

 

I agree that this is true. But what is done between two people behind closed doors, isn't comparble to a medium that is out there for everyone to see 24/7. To the amount and degree of hardcore that is out there depicting women in more degradign ways more often then men.

 

 

What kind of sex or sex acts do you consider degrading? And what kind is not degrading? Would you consider anything beside regular intercourse degrading? And if not, give examples of what wouldn't be. I'm just trying to get an idea where you're coming from.

 

I don't think it's important to know what I consider degrading or not in the context of the question asked. I consider most things in porn degrading or about power. A guy ejaculating on a woman's face in a porn movie is all about the guy getting off on a woman's face, her eagerness to please and be nothing more then something to shoot off on where he doesn't really care about her pleasure, other then her worship of him. He, and other men seem to think she should just get pleasure and be thankful for him ejaculation on her face. That is only one example of one sex act that has been referenced here several times.

 

When something is done between two people that care about each other, behind closed doors that no one knows about, that is a huge difference between men spending hours infront of their computers downloading porn of 20 different women getting banged and being ejaculated on. It shows no respect for that woman in the movie, or the women in your life that a man supports watching a woman treated in that manner for strictly his own enjoyment.

 

It would be the same with a man that takes his wife out to an expensive dinner that knows that is not the reason she is with him, compared to him going on dates with random women that only want him for paying for her meal.

 

How do men expect women to feel and deal with knowing their man supports something that degrades, uses women, and indirectly telling us that yes, in some form porn is a reflection of how men view women?

Edited March 24, 2008 by Jersey Shortie

[KidEternity]

 

How do men expect women to feel and deal with knowing their man supports something that degrades, uses women, and indirectly telling us that yes, in some form porn is a reflection of how men view women?

 

I kind of agree with you, but I still think it is completely wrong to generalise people, the majority of men might look at porn, but I don't think they are all thinking, wow degrading women is great. They just want some stimulation, and some release. I think that because there are some women in porn that go along with a lot of things therefore it makes it more acceptable to society, which it isn't though.

 

I think porn doesn't treat either sex too well though, I mean the guy is just as bad as the woman in my opinion...I'm sure there is plenty of porn out there with the woman in control and screaming things at the guy like "Screw Me" and all this stuff.

 

So I'm not really sure where I stand on the issue, I believe that some porn is degrading to women (and to men aswell) but it maybe isn't as intentional as you make it out to be...

 

Oh and there is of course a lot of men with completely no respect for women, but vice versa there is the same amount of women with no respect for guys...It is just things that society has to deal with. (I'm not saying it is right it is wrong, but it just happens)

 

...Oh and also I swear most of the male population would rather meet intelligent and beautiful girl rather than someone who looks like a porn star...not all we think about is sex, infact I don't care about it at all and it is no big deal to me....

[Green]

I'm really curiouse about what got you so disturbed. Did you find your dads porn stash recently? Are you curently dating a guy and fighting over this subject.

[MakeLemonade]

In all actuality - Porn is a reflection of how the porn industry sees women, not necessarily the men who look at it. They have a "vision" and they transfer those visions to film.

 

If you want to crusade against an entire group for porn's existence, perhaps that might be the way to go. You would certainly have more support I would think, maybe even mine.

 

You aren't going to get too many on the bandwagon with you that all men think it's great to degrade women because they look at porn. That is just too much a broad and feminist statement to accomplish that.

 

I also find it interesting all the questions that are related to this topic people ask of you, as the OP, and you refuse to answer. That is your perogative of course, but just be aware that lessens your credibility in the eyes of the reader. This reader anyway.

 

You already know where I stand on this from our exchanges in the men & porn thread but your title got me thinking, is it really the men we should be blaming and villifying or the money-hungry directors and sluts (male & female) themselves who pump it out like water. Hundreds of new films a day probably. To the willing, waiting hands of the MEN.

[Green]

The things me and my friends have joked about durring locker room talk would make most porns rated G.

[JerseyShortie]

"... but I don't think they are all thinking, wow degrading women is great."

 

On some level, they obviously are. The proof is in the pudding so to speak.

 

They just want some stimulation, and some release.

 

I am sure that is a part of it as well. But I guess I don't understand how this is an excuse for it.

 

 

I think that because there are some women in porn that go along with a lot of things therefore it makes it more acceptable to society, which it isn't though.

 

 

Actually it is, alot of men actually do want to do the things they see in the porn. So has porn becomes more hardcore and more easy to get, it does influence society.

 

I think porn doesn't treat either sex too well though, I mean the guy is just as bad as the woman in my opinion...

 

I do agree. I don't think porn does a service to men and the way it protrays them.

 

I'm sure there is plenty of porn out there with the woman in control and screaming things at the guy like "Screw Me" and all this stuff.

 

Plenty? I don't know about that. Although I am sure there is stuff out there like that. It is no where near the degree that it is for women.

 

So I'm not really sure where I stand on the issue, I believe that some porn is degrading to women (and to men aswell) but it maybe isn't as intentional as you make it out to be...

 

So grown adult men don't realize when something is degrading to the other gender? Like men think it's cool to call women "b*tch suck this" and then ejaculate on her face? Come on now! I think a more true statment is that men know it can be degrading but their sexual needs take president over not objectifying a woman. Hence, a man's needs are more important then a woman's.

 

I'm really curiouse about what got you so disturbed. Did you find your dads porn stash recently? Are you curently dating a guy and fighting over this subject.

 

Answer some of my questions and I will answer yours. Although I think it's funny that I am the disturbed one, not the guy that likes calling a girl a "b*tch" and cumming on her face.

 

There is alot of doubel talk and talk around the direct questions I often ask here in this post.

[Green]

Well Pron may not be a reflection on how men see women, but I gaurantee porn is the scope through which you view men. I really don't think this is a good way to be

[tanbark813]

There needs to be a smiley on here that shows a dead horse being beaten repeatedly.